Heads up - DON'T stock up

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:42 am

Ok, I went for the catchy title - I'm not really advocating that we not stock up.

But, wasn't the reason for the last shortage the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? The demand for metals on the open market? The pressure on production capacity from government contracts? If we're not firing 250,000 rounds per insurgent anymore, there should be plenty of capacity for our needs, regardless of who's in the White House.

People did buy AR's because they thought Obama might ban them, but that had nothing to do with the ammo and primer shortage.

I bought primers last time, probably enough to last me until I assume room temperature. And I just bought some cases and bullets. But since I live in an apartment, I won't be loading up on combustibles.

It's kind of a stretch to imagine that Obama, lame duck or not, could unilaterally ban all ammo and components. Whether he beats Romney or not, we're still likely to have a Republican presence somewhere, House, Senate, or maybe all three. Given the public's attitude about gun control these days, I can't see that ammo sales would be stopped.

If they manage their pie in the sky goal, and stop ammo sales, they would probably make owning ammo illegal as well, and if they do, you'll have to turn in your stockpile.

Doesn't seem realistic to me, unless there's something I missed.

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:50 am

You're probably right, unless of course there's a war with Iran, heaven forbid! If anything, if you're going to stock up on something before the election, I'd recommend magazines and collapsible butt-stocks, stuff like that, in case the prez were to make another gun ban like the last one.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:15 am

El Chivo wrote:It's kind of a stretch to imagine that Obama, lame duck or not, could unilaterally ban all ammo and components.

He's done lots of other things essentially unilaterally, so I wouldn't be so sure.

El Chivo wrote:Whether he beats Romney or not, we're still likely to have a Republican presence somewhere, House, Senate, or maybe all three.

Our Republican 'presence' has the spine of a jellyfish and the gonads of a tomato.

El Chivo wrote:Given the public's attitude about gun control these days, I can't see that ammo sales would be stopped.

Most of the 'public' could care less, as long as their snout can stay in the government trough, and there's cold beer in the fridge and something on television.

[/cynicism off]

Probably the more practical things for most of us to stock up on would be rice and beans and toilet paper and batteries, and all the other stuff crashing economies make hard to get.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:24 am

I don't think it's about ban as much as anticipation of new legislation and excessive controls.
CA legislation is our type culprit, and every new legislative session gives us a new example of excessive controls.
Other blue states follow in time, and federal controls also creep up on our freedoms.
It's feared that ultimately, mail order ammunition will end altogether, and we will be at the supply mercy of our local gun shops.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:50 am

All I have to do is look at California's gun related laws to see the future of the nation, Obama or not. Outright gun bans/laws are not thier (anti-gun groups) tactics anymore. In CA lead has been banned for hunting about 1/3 of the state because of an "endangered bird", strange ammo laws (in Los Angeles you cannot buy ammo on Dec. 31, and no mail order/online purchases), and handgun ammo purchase regulations. I left 2 1/2 years ago so there may be more. That's why I kept a good supply of reloading components...

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:56 am

Some things do not have to make sense. It does not matter if there is a reason or not---its happening as we speak.

My buddy Tom who owns Targetmaster which is the largest retail Remington dealer in the country told me over the weekend that he used to sell 250 cases of .223 ammo a year. He is now doing that a Month..

Then there the cases of 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 auto, .22 L.R., shotgun, etc. At the customers requests, he is now a stocking dealer of MRE's.

Like Doc says, it would also be prudent to add plenty of food and basic necessities with the ammo/gun.

Sure, there's a billion to one chance that anything will happen. Your survival is all in the choices you make----------before it happens.

------------Sixgun

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:33 am

Assuming that my stock is going to be used against Them, Them will have splattered me all over before I get through the first mag. of whatever

cowboykell · Post by **cowboykell** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:54 am

How much tin foil does one need to stock up in order to have enough for all those tin foil hats?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:03 am

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:51 am

We have seen this bs forever. Every once in awhile some quack doctor or scientist finds that cranberrys cause cancer and it gets aired two days berfore thanksgiveing, runs on TP, primers, firecrackers etc. All these shortages have been manipulated and have always been short termed. Gun nuts and survialists always run together. I live in utah and the mormons are big on it. (I am not mormon). They belive in a years supply. I dont like stale old food. I already have a lot of old reloads that I cooked up 40 years ago and some of it will still be in my garage when I cross the river. I have a close friend who is a survivalist. He also is christian. I once asked him why he stocks up, doesnt the bible teach us to trust in God? He thought that over and said, "I guess I am hedging my bet". When the bomb hits there will be more people in the hills than town. There has been times in my life I would have starved to death if I had to depend on the game I didnt see on some hunts. How much can you carry on your back? Sure, I dream of strikeing out on my well stocked ATV, but after a short time there would be no gas left to run it. I think the deal is we all like to fantizse and see ourselves surviveing while the nurds all die around us.
We have a fugitive "mountain man" that holes up in winter in peoples cabins above us durring the winter. He has been burglaring cabins for about 7 years now. In summer he camps in hidden little brushy areas near water. They have found several of his camps well stocked with stolen guns and survival gear from the cabins he hits.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19317397
You think about it, and that has to be one hell of a existance!

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:39 pm

With the U.S. paper dollar in crisis. My choice is Silver & lead, primers and powder.

China, Japan and India are buying Iranian Oil with Gold now, not U.S. paper dollars or Bonds.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:50 am

Booger Bill wrote: I have a close friend who is a survivalist. He also is christian. I once asked him why he stocks up, doesnt the bible teach us to trust in God? He thought that over and said, "I guess I am hedging my bet". When the bomb hits there will be more people in the hills than town. There has been times in my life I would have starved to death if I had to depend on the game I didnt see on some hunts. How much can you carry on your back? Sure, I dream of strikeing out on my well stocked ATV, but after a short time there would be no gas left to run it. I think the deal is we all like to fantizse and see ourselves surviveing while the nurds all die around us.

Thank you for saying that. I've been thinking something like it for some time. Every time I see that survivalist show on TV I think to myself, "There are some folks who have nothing but themselves. They are their own gods and their wretched little life is the most important thing in the universe to them because they have NO HOPE." I'm sorry, but that's how I view those kind of folks and it's not down my nose - it's a sadness.

I have ZERO desire to live in a post-apacolyptic world. Why would I want to "live" like that when Heaven awaits? Hey, don't get me wrong, life is a GIFT and I get that and wish to live it with my beloved family and friends as long as possible (because I think that God gave us this gift for a reason, we should not waste it). But if it turns into nothing but non-stop pain and misery I'M OUT man. Glory awaits!

I figure the only guy with the greenhouse and massive supplies is simply the guy with the biggest target on his forehead. Survivalist encampments? Fire bombs and determined STARVING people with just as many guns await. Have fun with that! Unless you live on Masada or something like it you're toast as soon as the have-nots figure out you're sitting pretty.

A few weeks supplies so that you don't croak after huge earth quakes or hurricanes while you wait for the government to get some basic services up and running? Yeah sure - THAT makes sense to me and we've got that covered. That strikes me as simply using the noggin' God gave ya to keep safe and plan well.

And for the record, I'm seriously hoping the "pre-trib" school of thought folks are correct! My family and I plan to be gone.

While we're talking about this, has anyone tried any of the civvie MREs that are out there for sale? It would be nice to know if some of them are actually edible!!

If someone has a recommendation please speak up. I'll get a few for that "a couple weeks" stash I mentioned.

Oly

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:01 am

Finally, some sense. I felt so sorry for all those people who spent themselves into debt believing the rediculous histeria. How is it that otherwise normal individuals can believe such extreme ideas?

Although, I have to say, the primers were probably a good idea.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:48 am

El Chivo wrote:...wasn't the reason for the last shortage the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? The demand for metals on the open market? The pressure on production capacity from government contracts? If we're not firing 250,000 rounds per insurgent anymore, there should be plenty of capacity for our needs, regardless of who's in the White House.

People did buy AR's because they thought Obama might ban them, but that had nothing to do with the ammo and primer shortage...

It seems that we have wobbled a bit here and there from the premise of your original thread, El Chivo; but:

I respectfully disagree with your analysis. Here is partially why:

1) All primers were unavailable; not just the primers used in military rifles such as the Small Rifle primer for the .223 or the Large Rifle primer used in the .30 caliber and above rifles.
I was one of those who spent literally months trying to purchase even a few primers during the crunch. I audited more than a dozen sources, trying to stock up on ANY primer - Small Pistol, Large Pistol, Small Rifle, Large Rifle, and a couple of Magnum primer types. The only primers that were still regularly in stock during a period of several months were the black powder caps. Were it not for Rimfire McNutjob's excellent search bot, I would have missed most of the few primers that came available, because the orders were filled before you could get online to put in your bid for them.

2) Gun sales went through the roof.
Because of the very real threat of anti-gunners coming into power, every gun dealer had a huge boom in sales, and many still have trouble keeping certain guns on the shelves.

3) Gun permits increased in those areas where they are allowed.
I talked to a retired LE friend who now teaches various firearm training classes, including qualification classes for those who are applying for a Concealed Weapon Permit in my area. He verified that business went through the roof during the time that there was a rush at the gun stores. One can conjecture that there was a huge input of new shooters who wanted to arm up before it was too late.

That's just three points, off the top of my head. I would have to say that we don't want to underestimate not only the dangers posed by anti-gun zealots; but we also have to deal with the shock waves and collateral damage done just by issues such as the candidacy of these anti-gun types.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:47 am

olyinaz wrote: A few weeks supplies so that you don't croak after huge earth quakes or hurricanes while you wait for the government to get some basic services up and running?
While we're talking about this, has anyone tried any of the civvie MREs that are out there for sale? It would be nice to know if some of them are actually edible!! If someone has a recommendation please speak up. I'll get a few for that "a couple weeks" stash I mentioned.
Oly

Thats my way of thinking---several weeks, maybe two months. Its still nice to have an ample supply of "fun things" like ammo, etc. as it will be a year or two before these items make it back on the market.

I read where primers and powder were very hard to get during WW2.

I really don't think that many of us expect a major breakdown---just lots of aggravation and hard to get items like there was during the depression and WW2.-------We Americans are used to living in comfort

---------Sixgun

Oly, yea on the civvy MRE's. I do have a mess of them but...........I never ate any.

My buddy Tom sells them at his gunshop and he tells me that customers have told him that they are edible----similar to military mre's.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:43 am

The people I talk to get the supply and demand relationship. They believe (note the word used, words mean something) that if Obama is re-elected that there will be shortages either due to a huge spike in demand before law/regulation/decree takes effect and/or the law/regulation/decree will make all existing stock somehow illegal to sell. It might all be illegal to use as well but...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:02 am

I once asked him why he stocks up, doesn't the bible teach us to trust in God?

Yep, i trust God to keep His word and remove me from this earth when things get real bad.
Rev. 3-10
because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

God removed Noah from the earth to protect him, God didn`t harm the creatures of the sea. The wrath was against man for his sin.
Don`t be fooled by those that say there has been tribulations for ever and that what we are seeing is just another rough time. That may be true and it may not be true, if we are at the time of the beginning of the Tribulation period it`s a whole different deal entirely.
When those days come the Bible says even the elect will be deceived, those that miss the rapture and reject Christ will think things are better not worse at first. The Anti-Christ and his world powers will make you think everything is great and he will have the fix for the world problems and everyone will follow him at first.
Remember the Christians and any good will be removed at the rapture but thank God the Holy Spirit will still be here and people will see through the lies of the AC.
But then the AC will turn against those that turn to Christ and hunt them down and kill them.
Anyway that`s part of what i think is coming soon, do i think we should stock up on ammo and food, dern right it might get pretty rough before the rapture.
And if you don`t have any thought of going at the rapture then you`ll be in a situation of either following the AC and taking the mark or hiding out which then you`ll need all the survival skills and tools you can get.
No one knows the day or the hour but God but He says we will know He is at the door by the things we see around us. IMO the key to those signs is that Jesus said when you see all these things happening at once and getting worse fast it is close.
Some of the signs are intelligence increasing dramatically, people will be traveling to and fro, Israel becoming a nation , natural disasters increasing, moral decay, men and woman laying with the same sex, and the world coming against Israel.
Myself, i think we are right at the edge of the tribulation beginning and i pray that God comes for me and removes me and mine from this earth .
Fellers that is just my opinion and i don`t want to debate it, just food for thought and everyone is welcome to their own beliefs.
God Bless and in the mean time, Praise the Lord and pass the ammo.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:22 am

Pitchy, you must have been raised in the same AG church as me!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:30 am

Booger Bill wrote:Pitchy, you must have been raised in the same AG church as me!

I`m non denominational, just my take on what i`ve learned from reading the Bible .
There are many different views on what`s going to happen and when, the important thing is to believe that Christ died for your sins, and payed the price for our sin on the cross.
It`s all hard to believe, heck everything is hard to believe but that`s what faith is about.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:38 am

Pitchy, for a bearded ol'coot you stated that quite well! I couldnt agree more!!!

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:53 am

Sixgun wrote:
olyinaz wrote: A few weeks supplies so that you don't croak after huge earth quakes or hurricanes while you wait for the government to get some basic services up and running?
While we're talking about this, has anyone tried any of the civvie MREs that are out there for sale? It would be nice to know if some of them are actually edible!! If someone has a recommendation please speak up. I'll get a few for that "a couple weeks" stash I mentioned.
Oly

Thats my way of thinking---several weeks, maybe two months. Its still nice to have an ample supply of "fun things" like ammo, etc. as it will be a year or two before these items make it back on the market.

I read where primers and powder were very hard to get during WW2.

I really don't think that many of us expect a major breakdown---just lots of aggravation and hard to get items like there was during the depression and WW2.-------We Americans are used to living in comfort ---------Sixgun

Oly, yea on the civvy MRE's. I do have a mess of them but...........I never ate any. My buddy Tom sells them at his gunshop and he tells me that customers have told him that they are edible----similar to military mre's.

I liked the MREs that I ate during the time I spent in the military. The chicken one's were questionable, not sure what it was. I have been looking for some MREs to stock up on for normal power loss, I lose power 2-3 times a year and would be nice to have something for just that reason on hand.

Steve

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:31 am

Hobie wrote:The people I talk to get the supply and demand relationship. They believe (note the word used, words mean something) that if Obama is re-elected that there will be shortages either due to a huge spike in demand before law/regulation/decree takes effect and/or the law/regulation/decree will make all existing stock somehow illegal to sell. It might all be illegal to use as well but...

That is precisely what I was alluding to, but I didn't want this thread to get bumped to the "Politics" forum due to my efforts.

As for the tribulation discussed by Pitchy, I subscribe to his statements; but I note that there have already been "minor" tribulations that have taken place, such as the Katrina disaster, where people have been held hostage by armed brigands and the police have been useless to protect them; in fact, disarmed them if the citizens made the mistake of carrying their weapons in the open.

I don't think it is wise to advertise too much if and how you are stocked up and prepared; but I believe that it is wise to be prepared for the eventuality in the near future of a total ban on firearms and ammo. I think a person would have to be totally out of touch with all media, or else in denial, not to realize that this is where we might in fact be headed. As a clue to my views, but to keep this in the "General Discussion" forum, I started reloading (actually, researching for several months, then purchasing the equipment) and expanding my collection of firearms shortly after January 20, 1993.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:00 pm

As for the tribulation discussed by Pitchy, I subscribe to his statements; but I note that there have already been "minor" tribulations that have taken place,

I agree, there have been many terrible tribulations that a person can hardly comprehend since the beginning.
What i`m referring too is a set period of time , a seven year tribulation period that will start after the rapture and the AC coming on the scene.
I think Satan has tried to bring the world to a point where the AC will come and the Trib begin in the past, like Hitler and others. But because good won out and defeated them God allowed the trib. to be delayed.
At some point mans condition will become so pathetic and we will quit supporting Israel and God will lower His protection.
Remember Satan was cast down with a third of his angles to room this earth and destroy what he can. Satan will give you everything you want if he thinks it will keep you from being saved and spreading Gods word.
Satan could care less about you personally his goal is to stop people from being saved.
I don`t want to bring religion into this topic to much because some don`t like it and that`s cool. It`s just hard to not talk about religion when that is one of the things that is influencing what happens in the world.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:53 pm

Well said Pitchy.

Oly

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:56 pm

olyinaz wrote:Well said Pitchy.

Oly

I'm totally on board with all that was said!

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Jack has it right, it doesn't matter if it is logical but it is happening.

Those preparing remind me of the fellow in the flood who keeps saying that "God will save him" each time an opportunity at rescue is presented until he dies. He has seen the warning, the firemen asking him to leave, the boat and helicopter which came by the house to fetch him to safety but he ignored them awaiting God's personal hand only to discover in heaven that in each instance that WAS God's hand reaching out to him. So it goes that God helps those who help themselves.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:11 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:I don't think it's about ban as much as anticipation of new legislation and excessive controls.
CA legislation is our type culprit, and every new legislative session gives us a new example of excessive controls.
Other blue states follow in time, and federal controls also creep up on our freedoms.
It's feared that ultimately, mail order ammunition will end altogether, and we will be at the supply mercy of our local gun shops.

I think you are right. A good example is whaen i started my business the 4473 firearms transfer yellow sheet was one page. Now it six pages. California is much worse. Even sending a gun to California is more paper work on this end.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:58 pm

Primers, ammo, stale MRE's, water ,Gold, toiletpaper, tinfoil hats

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:04 pm

Whoops, I forgot LIFELOCK, and male enhancement drugs

win38-55 · Post by **win38-55** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:40 pm

Better to have it, Than wish you did. I have always played it safe on
keeping my ammo supplies stocked to more then I could shoot. Better safe than sorry!
With the way out current Regime is running this place, I think I will keep stocking up on ammo and reloading stuff.
A man can never have enough ammo. I also keep a small stockpile of water/food on hand also at all times.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:31 pm

Imagine if you were worried cars or fuel might become hard to get, and you wanted assurance you'd be able to get to work and back for the next ten years anyway. A rusty old Yugo and 2,000 gallons of gas would be far better to have than a collection of six 'classic' cars, a 3/4-ton 4x4, and 100 gallons of gas. The automobiles are way more interesting to look at than a dozen drums of gasoline, though, in the meantime. The same goes for firearms - while we love to collect and shoot our 'classics' (whether 19th century leverguns or 21st century AR-clones), the guy who doesn't even like or appreciate guns all that much, but has a couple cases of ammo for his pair of rusty old .22 pistols, may actually be better off if conditions deteriorate.

Only those who really live FAR out in the middle of nowhere could hope to 'live off the land' with their trusty levergun, when 300 million others are also wanting to, and only those who really live FAR out in the middle of nowhere could avoid the huge amount of people exiting cities in mobs (which even the AR-owners would not have enough resources to deal with for long). Fortunately, although both of those scenarios make for good books and movies, I don't think either is very likely (or I'd live out in the middle of nowhere, myself).

I think those who've actually been through what we're most LIKELY to have happen (i.e. an Argentina-type situation) tend to say having a half-dozen cheap .22 handguns and a case or two of ammo would be way more practical than having fancy state-of-the-art combat .45's, or AR's, or other stuff we like to shoot and/or collect. In fact, stuff like lipstick and toiletpaper usually make the "I wish I'd stocked up" list.

cas · Post by **cas** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:22 am

It will be a self fulfilling prophecy no doubt. But a shortage for no real reason is still a shortage. I stocked up on primers in '07 and still have good supply left, but they won't last forever so I've recently ordered a few things. It's nice not having to worry about what's in short supply.

GoatGuy · Post by **GoatGuy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:51 am

If I were to stock-up on things for me and my family, whether needed or just wanted, it would also be to beat the inevitable, continuing inflation of our currency. That includes all sorts of things, other than just firearms/related items, and seems to us to be a prudent use of a portion of our discretionary funds. Inflation happens, ...just compare price increases over the last number of years of all things we as people consume.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:25 am

I appreciate this discussion so much. I agree 100% with Pitchy and all of the believers on the Gospel, our blessed Hope. And I agree totally that we are to trust in, depend on, and rely on God our Savior. I don't take this to mean I am to abandon my family's needs. The ant puts up food for the lean times and men are chastized for not doing that in Proverbs.

I mentioned to my son yesterday that we should not be so frustrated with the earthly govt. that is oppressing us because our citizenship is in heaven, according to the scriptures. Our job is to pray for and forgive them.

THAT'S NOT EASY AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT I AM GREAT AT DOING IT. I'm sharing it because it's true and I need help with it.

That said, I have the chicken gene and have managed to escape some situations because of it. The "flee" instinct. I also have the protective gene, the impulse to protect family, friend, or strangers, and some of that category are alive because of it....

I plan to use my boats and skills and knowledge to flee any and all attempts from the dotgovt to "help" my family, to get to a place where we can support ourselves outside of the main charade, and to provide a place for family to rendevous.

I will have to do this with massive trust in God's provision. The diaspora is not unknown in scripture, there have been many, and it is now seen to be God's hand protecting and preserving the faith He offers us. Some believers will not leave the area and they will be salt and light here; other believers will leave, flee, as the scripture says, and they will be salt and light wherever they go.

Either way believers will be loving God back and "occupying" until the end, however it comes, when Jesus returns for us. And scripture tells us to comfort one another with these words.

Comfort

Grizz

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:46 am

God Bless Grizz

May God help us draw fast, shoot straight , ride hard and die proud if need be.
And pray for everyone good and bad.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:56 am

It`s a interesting subject to think about. First you have opposite theorys each with merit. Stocking up or not at all? Since we already brought up religion on it, think about this: Without researching the scriptures but going by memory, the lord told the deciples to get rid of everything and to follow him. There is no doubt our possesions hold us down and stop us! I know I would be doing many other things I always wanted to were I not tied down by everything I own. Also in that, the lord also was saying our needs would be met! When the day comes within a very short while there would be no gas to run the finest vehicles or quads made. Just how much do you want to carry on your back? Lets keep it real here. Fourty pounds would about stop or kill most of us!
There is a interesting obscure offbeat movie made many years ago in canada staring clint walker. I forgot the title but it was a survival movie where he owns a farm on the plains of saskatchiwan in modern times. Some type disaster happens and he and his family are fighting off everyone from the citys that are trying to steal his food and crops. I forgot most of it and would like to find it and see it again. It was very beliveable, unlike red dawn. A army of paratroopers from russia or china isnt apt to drop in us without a lot of warning.
I will be 71 in a couple weeks. I am obese, out of shape with bad knees. On the other hand I am not a cherry either. In another old life I was raised and worked in the boonies, know guns and have many. I live on the very edge of a huge area of blm land in sw utah near zion, bryce and cedar breaks national parks. I own a good ATV and know most of the trails in this part of the country. Years ago when I was young I spent a number of years working in several national parks and the wisconsin conservation department.
I always get a charge listening to guys telling how they could, or want to go "live off the land". Some very few probley could, most couldnt for long. I used to reload and experiment a lot years ago. I have 40 year old ammo stashed in the garage. I am sure the bulk of it will be there when I croak. No one under any circumstances will really need 100,000 rounds of ammo unless your thing is pleasure target shooting. I suppose the mountain men and people comeing west on early wagon trains probley had far less than a 1,000 rounds worth of powder apiece on them and just maybe 500 was closer to the truth.
If you have valued possesions when the day comes you will want to stay home to protect them. That alone would or could get you swarmed and killed.
At this late date in my life I am not at all worried about all those survival situations and I never was worried. It still is fun to think about though.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:19 pm

Right on bro, our possessions are only temporary and can be a burden.
If we`re right about a rapture non of it will matter, they can have it.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:53 pm

GoatGuy wrote:If I were to stock-up on things for me and my family, whether needed or just wanted, it would also be to beat the inevitable, continuing inflation of our currency. That includes all sorts of things, other than just firearms/related items, and seems to us to be a prudent use of a portion of our discretionary funds. Inflation happens, ...just compare price increases over the last number of years of all things we as people consume.

Good comment. I was a commercial fisherman. Seasonal income, when the season is over, so is the income. I used to run the boat to town and buy all the staples we needed for the next 9 months. They never got any cheaper over that time period, and I had it in the pantry. Money in the pantry so to speak, because I didn't have to waste money on groceries at inflated prices. Kind of like having a bucket of 1970s ammo around. :)

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:51 pm

Pitchy wrote:Right on bro, our possessions are only temporary and can be a burden.
:

Comes down to the question: Do you own your stuff or does your stuff own you?

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 pm

I ain't preaching or stepping on your religion, but according to what I've been taught, the mark of the beast needs to be feared the most! Globalization is leading us to destruction. A friend tried to buy some furniture with a check the other day. No question the check was good, but the credit checking company denied him because it didn't have enough information on him. Credit checker wanted all identifying info--name, dob, ss#, etc., to run a better credit check and oh yes a voided check to process a cancellation fee if he decided to cancel the purchase. He bought furniture at a different store, but it won't be long before they all say that--the mark of the beast just might already be here a little early!! Ammo can't cure this problem. Each and every one of us can by imposing a single term limit on all politicians by the simple act of voting out all incumbents to end the profession called a career politician. Any good ideas where compromise is reached will last through more than one term of office.

rimrock

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:28 pm

The mark of the beast takes place under the rule of the anti-christ during the seven year tribulation period.
Rev. says that no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark.
I was telling people over 20 years ago the world will become a cashless society someday.
For the mark to work it has to become cashless and we`re heading that way fast.
The tribulation starts with a seven year peace agreement with Israel and it`s enemies by the AC.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:05 pm

About a year ago we bought a panasonic sound bar for our tv from sears. We went back to buy a 2nd tuner for it. They tried to order it in the store. They wanted my credit card #. I said no, I will just pay cash. The girl said they needed the card. I blew up! I do have credit cards but have only used them if I reserve a motel room once in a blue moon. I pay cash for everything now. (I didnt years ago.) It just struck me wrong and reminded me of the mark of the beast scriptures. As we were leaveing the store a dept manager came up to us to ask what was wrong. I unloaded on her too. She said the clerk had made a mistake and the credit card wouldnt be needed. She went to the big store computer and tried to order it. She too got frustrated and found there was NO WAY the cheap tuner could be ordered without a credit card!
I belive very few people realise what is not so slowly happening! Especialy the younger generation will call us old foggeys, nurds and religious fanantics. They are born into the C.C. thing and we see them buying their lunch, snacks and gas with them. It is getting to be a cashless soceity. Sure, in the end times people will need to barter black market style, but that will work only for a short time in the end times. They will have the excuse that you are breaking the law by going black market if you dont conform by takeing the mark. This stuff really started with social security numbers.
EDITED: By the way, I looked up the title of that clint walker movie I refered to. It`s "Deadly harvest". Confuseing as it seems there is two different movies made with the same title. Richard Boon starred in the first one in 1973. Clint starred in this one in 1977. They are NOT the same story or plot! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074380/

smokenrust · Post by **smokenrust** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:45 pm

Pitchy, I have been saying the same thing since the seventies when computors were getting more involved in everything.... It just a matter of time.
"no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark" That you shouldn't need to worry about if the rapture hour happens,, in a twinkle of the eye, we will be taken up... But then if you stop and look at Christ's final hours, he said he could raise the church up in 3 days.. and the people wondered how he could do that.They thought physically, not spiritually. Then I have read of people that were being pursued and they believed in the Lord to protect them and stood in a room with their backs to the pursuers and were not found. - We may be here even though AC is busy persecuting those that don't accept the mark of the beast...
Some might say I am nuts but...The morning of 911 before the twin toweres were flown into, I had a dream and the essence of it was to "stay in the 'living room', if you go outside you will surely die".. Meaning stay in the presence of God,.. God is light, light is life. Where as the evil one is of darkness, of death. It also showed how each 'attack laid the land more desolate and life meant nothing to the attackers..Just out to kill and destroy. The tv got turned on and first tower had already been flown into and I said "it has begun".
I can not say if we flee to the hills, or are protected under the lamb's blood as the first born in Egypt were in Moses's day or just whisked away . But we do need to keep our sights on Jesus no matter what happens.
Just be prepared spiritually and physically and place no trust in man or mans government..

Also Booger Bill reminded me of something else and that is the way government is busy at controling everything... And bartering is an option yet but...they want total control and that will be closed too. Food supply, theres laws about that, aren't suppose to have over 6? weeks supply at most on hand. --- Monsantoe is busy buying up garden seed companies and then introduce their genentic stuff seeds... so they might grow the one crop but seeds from it won't reproduce...
Then the government is busy trying to install 'voluntary' id program for animals with RFID chips. Have seen government wanting to know where all your crops are kept and locations of bins etc and where all your animals are etc.
In some writings gov already has if in a catastrophy, they have the right to procure all food supplies for their own use... leaving you with nothing....
And if the 7 year peace agreement goes bad at 3 1/2 years so... that leaves 3 1/2 years of living he'll. Long time to go ...
Best to trust the Lord and be ready... and not have to deal with the A~C

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:07 pm

Pitchy,

I believe there is 3 1/2 years of peace, then 3 1/2 years of tribulation, then JESUS comes back in the clouds!!!!

Also, Sweden looks to go cashless in less than 5 years.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:21 am

But we do need to keep our sights on Jesus no matter what happens.
Just be prepared spiritually and physically and place no trust in man or mans government..

Yep , most important.
Pre-trib rapture is just my opinion, not preaching or debating on this board.

Uncle Buck, that is my belief also, first half will be deception and the peace agreement, second half will be pure Heck.

More food for thought and just a opinion.
I`ve always liked the theory that big time war will break out, real big then the AC will come on the scene and stop it all, claim to be the returning Christ.
Everyone will think Armageddon just took place and fall for it ect, ect.....
They will explain away the rapture by some more deception.
Folks this Triblation period will be like nothing man has ever seen, it won`t be like anything else that has happened.
God dealt with the world for 4 hundred some years then His time clock stopped when He sent His son to die on the cross.
The approx 2,000 years since the cross is called the church age and when it ends the last seven years of Gods dealings with man will continue.
I like to think of all this as history and not religion per say, some people get upset about talking about religion.
No need to feel that way when talking about end time events as no one is trying to force anything down anyones throat about salvation.
I`m not a very good debater because of my short memory but i have been a moderator on a Christian debate board for 15 years or so.
I recently stepped down from that position because of all the family issues and stress.
I have really enjoyed getting to know you guys and you have been a big help in my life, friends are more important than anything else.
I`ve always said i`d rather have one good friend than a army of idiots.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:31 pm

I'm more afraid of the hucksters whom are pushing Primers, MREs, gold,Etc.than the government it self.. Be smart hold on to your money and you will live to see another day. Beware the false prophets who pushed in the past, backyard bomb shelters,Y2k supplies, PT. Barnum said, There's a sucker born every minute, Don't become one.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:34 pm

And no matter what anybody says, Don't seal your house up in Saran wrap and duct tape, but, if you do, leave an air HOLE.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:22 pm

Reading this thread reminds me I need to stock up on tinfoil.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:56 pm

jnyork wrote:Reading this thread reminds me I need to stock up on tinfoil.

What`s that for, to make those pointed hats out of

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:08 pm

Looney. Toons.