The New Winchester's

[KCSO]

I just finished another conversion on an 1886 Winchester that a customer wanted to shoot. Once again the gun misfired about every 10 -15 rounds straight out of the box, light primer hits from the rebounding hammer system. I wrote Winchester about this when the guns first came out and was told that the guns are all testfired at the factory and are perfect so it must be my ammo. Winchester has been fobbing this schlock off on folks for years. I sure would be upset to buy a NEW gun and pay $1400 and then have to spend more money to get it shooting. I won't order one of the new guns for a customer without specifing thaty it probably won't shoot from the box. This is a pretty sad state of affairs.

[Grizzly Adams]

I just finished another conversion on an 1886 Winchester that a customer wanted to shoot. Once again the gun misfired about every 10 -15 rounds straight out of the box, light primer hits from the rebounding hammer system. I wrote Winchester about this when the guns first came out and was told that the guns are all testfired at the factory and are perfect so it must be my ammo. Winchester has been fobbing this schlock off on folks for years. I sure would be upset to buy a NEW gun and pay $1400 and then have to spend more money to get it shooting. I won't order one of the new guns for a customer without specifing thaty it probably won't shoot from the box. This is a pretty sad state of affairs.

Guns are kinda like a box of chocolates.

I have two new Winchesters , and neither has ever misfired. Just lucky I guess.

[J Miller]

The thing is, they should not be like a box of chocolates. They should not vary in fit and function that much. Each and every one of them should fire each and ever time you pull the trigger. Period.
For Winchester/Browning to say their guns are good and the ammo is bad after this many years of of these guns not working right is a cop out.
The rebounding hammer action is a defective design from the git go. It only works "IF" each and every part is properly fit and smoothed out. It does not lend itself to mass production throw it together / ship it out type of manufacturing.

I bought one Winchester 94AE with the abominable rebounding hammer and tried to work with it. Could not. Got rid of the rebounding hammer action. I said then and I've kept to my word, I will never buy another one. At least the one I had would fire each and every time.

KCSO,

I'm surprised you'll even let one of them things in your shop.

Joe

[Blaine]

My USRAC 1886EL does that

[J Miller]

My USRAC 1886EL does that

The "EL" must stand for "Extra Light" firing pin strike.

Joe

[Blaine]

My USRAC 1886EL does that

The "EL" must stand for "Extra Light" firing pin strike.

Joe

AND, it will not chamber an OAL that works fine on my Marlins I think this is one I'll hang on to, but send it to a Guru, and chop it to maybe 20" with all the goodies taken care of.

[Griff]

Guns are kinda like a box of chocolates.

If you buy good, quality chocolates, you know what you're going to get... I bought my wife a box of Russell Stover Cherry Cordial's... excellent... consistent... and delicious...

Yep... she shared with me!!

[KCSO]

They are like a box of chocolate, from Whizzo Chocolate Co, open the box and you are going to puke. Crunchy Frog anyone!

[Grizzly Adams]

Wouldn't want anyone to have a stroke! I didn't mean to suggest that I don't believe all new guns should be perfect out of the box. I do, but that is not the way it always happens with any companies wares! I am just saying that my personal experience with the New Winchesters is different than the OP! Your mileage my vary.

[.45colt]

Thank You for posting this. I have said many times that the worst out of the box firearm I ever had was the USRAC-Win Legacy I bought 11 years ago.the rebounding hammer was the iceing on the cake...lately I have been drawn to the 86El by the low cost and the fact they are made by in Japan and should be much better. I am glad I spent My money on a Ruger no1 instead. same old bull*&^% from USRAC. .

[Mike D.]

I have fooled with a few of those things and can tell you that one out of three is dependable. Not a good average. The Miroku Brownings, on the other hand, are absolutely dependable. The lawyer induced stuff that Winchester(?) sells are not worth half the asking. If CDNN hadn't had them for $599 I still would not own one. My next try will be to use original Winchester parts on one. Bolt, Lower tang, flat mainspring and hammer with fly should just about do it. I might just sacrifice a beater .33 to get it done.

[Don McDowell]

Must be an anomoly to the 86's, my tang safetied rebounding hammer 95 has thousands of rounds thru it with out a single misfire.
I also have 2 rebounding hammer 94's and neither one of those has ever offered even a hint of a misfire.
Encountered two of the new 94's in 38-55 last year at two seperate levergun matches... it's to darn bad those things were going off like they were supposed to.... maybe somebody else could of won some prizes...

[win92]

I have a 7x30 Waters that was made in the 80`s It has a rebounding hammer.
After close to 500 rounds all handloads, it started to misfire badly .
I tried a new spring,factory loads,and and finally replaced the breech block with a homemade one.
It was made to absolute minimun headspace. That solved my problem. Rebounding hammers are a pain, I have altered a few Japanese Winchesters with info obtained on this site, Thanks to those who shared the imformation.

[DPris]

My 86EL had no light-strike problem while I owned it.
My two rebounding hammer New Haven 94s ditto. One in .45 Colt (sold) & the other in .30-30 (still have).
Worked with a .45 Colt 92 rebounder from Miroku last year, ran fine.

I'm not defending the design, just saying I'm not experiencing the problem.
Denis

[Grizz]

That's so funny 'cause I have a winc ranger 16" in .357 and it runs great with all the .357 ammo I've tried. And it's very accurate right out of the box. In spite of the rebounding hammer and the 27 pound valve-grinding-compound trigger pull. I guess I'll keep it after all.

And I've shot Blaine's EL and that gun puts bullets where the sight is every time too. And the trigger works good too.

At least 2 crippled hobbled up winchs work great in spite of the lawyer crapola.

[Blaine]

That's so funny 'cause I have a winc ranger 16" in .357 and it runs great with all the .357 ammo I've tried. And it's very accurate right out of the box. In spite of the rebounding hammer and the 27 pound valve-grinding-compound trigger pull. I guess I'll keep it after all.

And I've shot Blaine's EL and that gun puts bullets where the sight is every time too. And the trigger works good too.

At least 2 crippled hobbled up winchs work great in spite of the lawyer crapola.

I've had at least 4 FTF with slightly dimpled primers

[Grizz]

That's so funny 'cause I have a winc ranger 16" in .357 and it runs great with all the .357 ammo I've tried. And it's very accurate right out of the box. In spite of the rebounding hammer and the 27 pound valve-grinding-compound trigger pull. I guess I'll keep it after all.

And I've shot Blaine's EL and that gun puts bullets where the sight is every time too. And the trigger works good too.

At least 2 crippled hobbled up winchs work great in spite of the lawyer crapola.

I've had at least 4 FTF with slightly dimpled primers

Phooeeie. That's less funny. My redhawk does that sometimes with double action fire... phooooeeey

Did a second strike ignite? Maybe pull the firing pin and clean the channel out?

[DPris]

Blaine,
Stop using those cheap Chinese dimpled primers!
Denis

[1894c]

I bought one Winchester 94AE with the abominable rebounding hammer and tried to work with it. Could not. Got rid of the rebounding hammer action. I said then and I've kept to my word, I will never buy another one.

That was my experience with a Win.94AE 30/30, mine would mis-fire every 6th or 7th shot (reloads and factory--didn't matter)...sent it back to USRA twice, they said they fixed it...no go...went down the road. Bought another Win.94AE recently (weak moment and the price was killer), but sold it for a profit...in the end didn't trust it (now I know that others have had good luck with the rebounding hammer design, but when it doesn't work it leaves a lasting impression), like my Marlin's and Rossi's more, even the REM-Marlin's... :)

[JohndeFresno]

What IS IT about these expensive Winchesters that don't work? Why are they held in such high esteem - just because of the history behind them?

I love my Marlins (336 Centennial in .30-30, 1895 .45-70). Affordable, reliable, and purty. I am really surprised that a big company like Winchester has such poor quality control and/or engineering for its iconic rifle. I really don't get it.

[DPris]

"Winchester" isn't a big company.
It's actually not a company at all, just a brand name licensed to Browning for handling a number of guns for the parent FN company.
Denis

[JohndeFresno]

"Winchester" isn't a big company.
It's actually not a company at all, just a brand name licensed to Browning for handling a number of guns for the parent FN company.
Denis

Thank you for that information, Denis.

[DPris]

You are very welcome.
Denis

[J Miller]

Denis,

Didn't Winchester stop being an autonomous company back in the 30s?

Joe

[DPris]

I don't know the date, but it ceased to exist as a stand-alone independent company a long time ago.

Olin had it for quite a while, sold it off in the '80s (kept the branding rights & the ammo side) to USRAC, USRAC changed hands a couple times, FN eventually ended up owning USRAC & toward the end of New Haven manufacture USRAC was only the plant, no longer a company in itself.

Now Olin licenses the brand to Browning so they can import Winchester branded guns from abroad & market those & others made at the FN plant in South Carolina.
Denis