POLITICS - Gun hide-outs ... just in case

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:54 pm

After seeing Grizz's post on leverguns and sub-flooring, and some of the responses, my thinking got around to a subject I've pondered before:

Assume that at some point in the future, all guns are outlawed (don't laugh; I suspect it will happen within 25 years). And the Government is authorized to pay a visit on registered gun owners to confiscate their weapons, including searching the house and property. Where and how could one hide a few weapons (and ammo)?

I like the idea in Grizz's thread of a storage area enclosed in stone. And between the floorboards is interesting also. But how do you make them invisible from e.g., metal detectors? Such tools in the hands of feds would leave out many hiding places (even the stuffed boa!) -- gun safes, picture frames, etc.

I've heard you can fill some PVC tubing with motor oil, seal and bury a weapon. That's a good answer for some remote property or large acreage. But for suburbanites, it wouldn't take much for Joe Fed to sweep their yard, and storing ammo this way isn't an option. Would a chamber beneath the concrete foundation of a house be impervious to detection (of course, would need some land to build an access tunnel, and would probably have to build it before the house was built. Even then, one would still have to hide the door/entrance from detection)?

What could someone do, purely as an intellectual exercise of course (since as law-abiding citizens, we would all conform to the law and turn in our weapons)?

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:09 pm

I suppose I'd have to go under the basement floor or into the dirt from my basement.
Being a suburbanite, I'm limited to those options.

Truth be told, if some man comes from the gov't. to take my guns, I'm going to shoot him dead.

wm · Post by wm » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Cemetery. Metal caskets and vaults should confuse any metal detectors.

Kind of like Arch Stanton and the gold.

Wm

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:22 pm

An off-site cache, or a maybe a locker or vault under a major appliance.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:23 pm

I believe we'll see the outright ban on guns much sooner than 25 years.

And I no longer comment on what I'll do in the event the storm troopers pay me visit at 0300 hours.

But what I see is this. With the technology the govt has now, it would be very difficult for a city dweller to hide guns in the house. Most of the plumbing is no longer metallic so it won't hide much of anything. The AC/heating ducting is so thin the outline of a gun would be visible to most of the high tech scanners.
And since 99% of us have filled out one or more 4473 forms in our lives the govt knows where to look. Not to mention those of us subjects in IL who have registered ourselves via the FOID card.

For someone who is younger in good condition of mind and body and in a mood to fight, I would simply state, get most of your guns OUT of the city. Tell no one where you put them, not even your family. And leave some for the govt to take.

As for shooting any storm troopers, well, that's a good way for you and anyone else in your home to become dead.

Joe

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:28 pm

J Miller wrote:I believe we'll see the outright ban on guns much sooner than 25 years.

And I no longer comment on what I'll do in the event the storm troopers pay me visit at 0300 hours.
...

Who needs Stormtroopers?

The Lefties will just use Canukians. It's a done deal.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story ... 9d&k=14984

Who needs to hide them anyway. Just start making your own.

What you need to hide is the case-lots of 9mm ammo to feed your smg(s).

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:41 pm

J Miller wrote: And leave some for the govt to take.

Joe

Leave a few clunkers in gun safe with a box of ammo for each. Be cooperative and tell them you long ago sold all those guns you bought back in the 20th century at garage sales. "Didn't see any need to keep sales records back then, but you're welcome to take what I've got left".

With how many millions of gun owners and and how many hundred millions of firearms out there, they don't have enough agents to to do a comprehensive search of every residence.

Beware of the mandatory truth serum however

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Hmmm. Don't know what I would do until that bridge is crossed. What good is a firearm you have stashed away underground? Are you then going to live in fear for the rest of your life that the "authorities" will one day find it and send you to prision and destroy you and your family? How important is the Constitution? What about rule of law? When is it okay to stand up for your beliefs even if it means dying for them? I don't have the answers. This will ultimently become a personal decision for each and every firearm owner. You think our founding fathers went through these struggles? Many risked everything and died for the system of government we have today. They could easily have done nothing and we would have a government simular to Canada or Australia.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. â€” That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, â€” That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. â€

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:02 pm

Certainly,one could plan to have several around and visible that one could turn in, especially most of the more recent, registered purchases from dealers.

The question, really, is how and where to hide the others (hypothetically), if someone were inclined to do so. If one owns a few acres in the woods somewhere, storing them there would make sense. But under what conditions -- buried in PVC, a subterranean vault, a case like Grizz's between the floorboards of a woods shack, etc.? And for the surburbanites, what choices do they have for hiding around the house? As Joe suggested, could AC ducts be used if the metal was beefed up a bit? Could a wall or walk-in safe in the basement be made "invisible" to detection? What about stashing dissembled parts, even from homemade guns, in various places, which might not be as recognizable upon search?

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:07 pm

Guns?!? WHAT GUNS?!?

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:27 pm

RAC wrote:What good is a firearm you have stashed away underground?

Your great-grandchildren might be the ones to answer that.

Even one old 32 flinter and possibles dug up fifty years from now might feed them, defend them or help end tyranny.

Who knows. The Holy Bible and the Boy Scouts admonish us to be prepared.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:40 pm

Have a game plan. Sit down and think this out. Because if the government comes to take our guns, it'll be with extreme measures cause they know most will resist.

If you have to break a gun apart and stash it, then do it. The point will be better to have one than not have one. Also, do the same for ammo. And don't tell anyone.

cubrock · Post by **cubrock** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:44 pm

Tycer wrote:
RAC wrote:What good is a firearm you have stashed away underground?
Your great-grandchildren might be the ones to answer that.

Even one old 32 flinter and possibles dug up fifty years from now might feed them, defend them or help end tyranny.

Who knows. The Holy Bible and the Boy Scouts admonish us to be prepared.

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising started with two old revolvers, which they used to "liberate" additional weapons from the Germans. Never underestimate the power of a single weapon in determined hands.

RAC · Post by **RAC** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:46 pm

Tycer wrote:
RAC wrote:What good is a firearm you have stashed away underground?
Your great-grandchildren might be the ones to answer that.

Even one old 32 flinter and possibles dug up fifty years from now might feed them, defend them or help end tyranny.

Who knows. The Holy Bible and the Boy Scouts admonish us to be prepared.

The time to end tryanny is right now, while we still have firearms, not by my government dependent, undereducated, Muslem great grandchildren of the 22nd Century.

PS, that is tounge in cheek. I don't have any children. Your grandchildren will have to clean up this mess. But why should you leave this mess for your your children? Is this the leagacy you want to leave: "We surrerendered our rights, you get them back? " I have a feeling though that each suceeding generation will care less about RKBA and more about what's on television, who's playing football, or the latest game for their computer.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:18 pm

I am with RAC,
I don't have any either, but what kind of place do we want to leave behind?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:12 pm

What guns? I've seen the light and have turned them all in............For the children.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:16 pm

Good for you BlaineG

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:28 pm

For Educational/Research Purposes Only....

Got a Hacksaw?

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:44 pm

mescalero1 wrote:I am with RAC,
I don't have any either, but what kind of place do we want to leave behind?

What we want to leave and what we will leave may be very far apart. RAC is correct, there may be a generation or two of slackers. But that won't last forever.
We'll do what we can, and if we fail now, that don't mean other's won't pick up the fight later. And if they have a few tools........

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:55 pm

Hey Old Ironsights Ive seen those instructions and pics before, has anyone actually made one of them and found them to be accurate and reliable.
Guns may be easy enough to stash but ammo will be a real pita to replace.

JJ_Miller · Post by **JJ_Miller** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:13 pm

Guys I hate to bust your bubble but there is no way to hide firearms or parts thereof anywhere in or near your residence. Drug dogs will be converted to gun dogs and their noses cannot be fooled.

If you hid the weapons well enough to get by the dogs, it would take you a couple of days to access them your self, not very handy. How many times can one dig up and re-pour a cement slab every time you want or need a weapon.

And for the cold dead fingers crowd, it won't be only you shot, you will be forced to sacrifice your wife, sons and daughters.................then what.

One gunowning home in each town, or every block will be used as an example and we will all fall into line.........................don't fool yourselves.

THE BATTLE IS BEING FOUGHT NOW !!!!!!!

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF GUN OWNERS WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE NRA, WHO STILL THINK THEY DON'T HAVE TO VOTE......WHO FOOL THEMSELVES INTO THINKING THEY CAN VOTE DEMOCRAT..........

ITS TIME FOR 80 MILLION OF US TO GET UP OFF OUR BUTTS AND VOTE, OPEN OUR WALLETS AND SEND IN 35 DOLLARS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HIDE GUNS..........

Sorry..........rant mode off now..........................................JJ

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:15 pm

the same govt that dried up booze in the 20's?

the same govt thats been at war with drugs for 40 years?

they cant stop illegal guns now... what do you think they will do "better" in the future.

when my son turned 19 or so I had the state transfer all his handguns to his name, I had the Michigan green cards for all of them in hand and took him to the SO.

Deputy Ann ran all the guns in the state data base... 2 of 4 didnt show up at all. I still dont know if they show up on the Michigan database. Deputy Ann told me that she sees guns all the time that were inspected, carded and not in the data base.

If Michigan can screw up handgun registration so can anyone else.

Ammo will be the problem.

As long as there are milling machines and lathes we will have guns... the question is WHO will have them.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:27 pm

Hillbilly wrote:...As long as there are milling machines and lathes we will have guns... the question is WHO will have them.

The book in the link I posted shows that you don't even need that. All you need is a Drill, a Hacksaw and a Bench Grinder.

Everything else can be made from stock steel tubing.

And yes, I agree, It's the AMMO you need to stockpile &/or have reloading gear for...

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:02 pm

gundownunder wrote:Hey Old Ironsights Ive seen those instructions and pics before, has anyone actually made one of them and found them to be accurate and reliable.

Who needs to be accurate?
Are AK47's known for accuracy?
Are they not super effective?

I'll take one of them "shadetree" pistols over a bowie knife any day.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:13 pm

Hillbilly wrote:
...As long as there are milling machines and lathes we will have guns... the question is WHO will have them.

The book in the link I posted shows that you don't even need that. All you need is a Drill, a Hacksaw and a Bench Grinder.

it's been awile since I've run a lathe or a mill... my first gun would LOOK like it was built with a hacksaw and a dremmel tool.........

Aside... the 45th Inf Museum has several Viet cong arms that were built with basic hand tools, in grass huts, by women, kids and old men. Most of those dont even look to bad. It can be done.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:37 pm

I'm not telling how many guns I have or where they are.

A MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION!!!!! How many of the LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) that we have on this forum are going to go out and confiscate firearms when they are told to???? How many LEOs are going to site the 2nd Ammendment and in protest are going to quit their LEO jobs rather than confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens????

Think about it. One of the guys you joke with, talk guns, perhaps even know in person on this forum will be on your porch one day to take your guns. What are you going to do when that happens??????

Even if it's the Feds on your porch to take your guns you can bet your bippy that they will have local law enforcement along to give them assistance and those local boys will be Johnny-on-the-Spot and gung-ho tripping over themselves to help them Federal boys.

Just a passing note -- When the Mayor of New Orleans ordered his Police Department to confiscate ALL firearms from all civilians (even law abiding citizens) in the wake of Katrina, NOT ONE of the New Orleans Police Officers refused to obey his order and in fact, there was a spot on TV about them beating up an 80-year old WOMAN in order to take her gun away from her. The cops even arrested her and charged her with resisting arrest when she wouldn't give up her hand-gun voluntarily.

Edit: Some of you ask -- What is the NRA good for???? The NRA took the City of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans and the New Orleans Police Department to Federal Court and got an order from a Federal Judge ordering the City of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans and the New Orleans Police Department to return ALL confiscated guns. Plus the NRA got the judge to order the New Orleans Police Department to drop all charges against the 80-year old woman.

The NRA then pushed for a law forbidding a general order to confiscate weapons during an emergency like hurricanes, floods, fires, etc.. The bill passed both houses of Congress and was signed into law by Bush.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:12 pm

It's easy to say what a person, LEO or not, would do when our government makes individual firearm possession illegal. "They'll have to pry them from my cold, dead fingers, or, first government official ask me for my guns and I'll shoot them dead."

I'am an LEO and I'll tell you that almost to a single man in our department not one of them will enforce a zero tolereance firearm policy implemented by the federal government. So they say, so I say.

Lines will be drawn and you'll find yourself on one side or the other. I can only pray it doesn't come to that. If it does, I can only pray the second revolution is as successful as the first.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:13 pm

Off your property, in secret, on State property - probably best would be a loaded handgun (which can get you other guns, ala the Liberty .45 of WW II) sealed with ammo in a weatherproof container, like a Mason jar, under a rock or in a rock wall somewhere in a public access "wilderness" or hiking area.

The only ones you won't be prosecuted for not having (or a record of where they went), would be the ones you got w/o a paper trail leading to you.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:29 pm

kimwcook - and all LEOs

Having said what I did in my above post, I want to make it clear that I support to the fullest LEOs and respect their jobs. They have it tough and they do a good job sometimes in the worts of conditions.

The point I was making was that someone is going to come for our firearms and the logical ones are the Federal/State/Local LEOs.

We'll just have to sit back and see if that day comes and if it does, see who will show up on my porch.

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:22 pm

Guys I hate to bust your bubble but there is no way to hide firearms or parts thereof anywhere in or near your residence. Drug dogs will be converted to gun dogs and their noses cannot be fooled.

If you hid the weapons well enough to get by the dogs, it would take you a couple of days to access them your self, not very handy. How many times can one dig up and re-pour a cement slab every time you want or need a weapon.

Well I will have to disagree. There are a few ways that have proven to fool the dogs. They just involve carefully sealing packages and using items such as fuel to overwhelm the dogs senses.

ursavus.elemensis · Post by **ursavus.elemensis** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:25 pm

I always say that my biggest concern about the security of our Nation is not the terrorists blowing stuff up in NYC, but the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada. Apparently, when the time comes, it will be our own military that will be holding the door open for the invaders, pointing out the best routes south.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story ... 9d&k=14984
I'm going to be making my stand against the invaders at the point where I-81 connects with I-476 near Scranton, PA. I expect that will be one of the primary routes of the invaders since they can go right down I-476, capture Philly, and then move on down I-95 to Washington, D.C. By following that route and fanning out along the way, they can control territory occupied by 25% of the Nation's population.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:53 pm

Modoc ED wrote: Even if it's the Feds on your porch to take your guns you can bet your bippy that they will have local law enforcement along to give them assistance and those local boys will be Johnny-on-the-Spot and gung-ho tripping over themselves to help them Federal boys.

Just a passing note -- When the Mayor of New Orleans ordered his Police Department to confiscate ALL firearms from all civilians (even law abiding citizens) in the wake of Katrina, NOT ONE of the New Orleans Police Officers refused to obey his order and in fact, there was a spot on TV about them beating up an 80-year old WOMAN in order to take her gun away from her. The cops even arrested her and charged her with resisting arrest when she wouldn't give up her hand-gun voluntarily.

Unfortunately, despite LEO claims to the contrary, I believe they will be (and have been in the past) FOOLED by their superiors; they won't get a call "go get farmer Jones' guns" - they'll get a call "we found out farmer Jones is a drug dealer, child pornographer, and just beat his wife up - take the guy down." It only takes one bad cop on the scene to drop a bag of cocaine, or an auto sear, for someone else to 'find' and the poor guy is dead meat. You KNOW our sleazy, unethical, inept, and prejudiced hypocrites we call 'reporters' will never dig at the truth in those cases; it's too easy to write a 'formula' story about the evil guy everyone thought was so nice - you're condemned from the start.

I wish I had enough faith in the LEO community to doubt that, but they already enforce too many unconstitutional laws with too much zeal. Too many just 'love' to go all hot-shot and 'take down' a 'drug dealer' - who cares if it is just some guy who upset off a congressman with too many angry letters - it's a chance to play 'cowboy!'

John in MS · Post by **John in MS** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:03 pm

"I always say that my biggest concern about the security of our Nation is not the terrorists blowing stuff up in NYC, but the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada. Apparently, when the time comes, it will be our own military that will be holding the door open for the invaders, pointing out the best routes south."

Well, I'd say the UN "Military" couldn't find its butt with both hands, basically. Look how effective they have been in preventing genocide around the world... (Dutch "soldiers" stand by, watch mass killings, and take no action...) etc. You think the UN is organized enough to take down a very well armed nation of 260 million, even WITH help from the US Gov't?

In the words of an American cultural icon, "they are unorganized, grab-asstic pieces of amphibian ...!"

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:22 pm

The UN Blue Helmets won't even have to get involved... not since the US and Canada signed the "I'll send my troops to your country if you have a "Civil Disturbance" treaty...

As for the Luty SMG? The designer made a couple. Some guys in countries that don't have a BATFE have built some.

They are "pistol" accurate (50 feet or so) and reliable enough.

Jut remember that the "Liberator" pistol was about as simple, and certainly effective when employed properly - and it was a single-shot.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:40 pm

Don't forget David's weapons of choice: sling and arrows. It'd be pretty hard to take away every rock, broken brick, and piece of twine in the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sling_(weapon)

I know it sounds hard to believe, but sticks and stones really can kill you.

It's not ideal for taking on the guys we have in Iraq, say, but there's lots of soft targets that can get taken out, (they rhyme with p-o-l-i-t-i-c-i-a-n) and there's not enough guns to control everyone if the poop hits the propellor.

It just has to do with who wants it more..,

Grizz

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:54 pm

Check out these two
The defender and the liberator
http://tml.travellercentral.com/hillberg/index.html
I definately want one of each
Someone points a defender at a fella he WILL soil his pants

JP_TX · Post by **JP_TX** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:47 am

This is a very interesting exchange of ideas and fears. It is further interesting that I don't recall a discussion like this when GW was running and getting elected either time. Folks had a grudging confidence in GW because they knew what he meant even if he didn't explain it very well.

Now I sense an air of defeat when there is 9 months left to rally folks to vote and at least put up a political fight for our own best interests in each state, if for no other reason to overturn the Dems in the Senate, if not the house.

The question that comes to mind is, if a body fears the government of either Clinton or Obama with both the House and Senate in Dem control, why are so many people deciding to sit out this election because there is no perfect conservative in the race.
I need someone to explain that to me how that is a benefit. but please do it before November because I am voting a straight Republican ticket and more than once if I had the chance.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:57 am

There is hope...all those wonderful, amazing young people returning from fighting overseas are coming back with a vengence. They don't like the homegrown traitors in power now, that have tried their best to undermine those wonderful heroes efforts overseas in Iraq, Afganistan and other places. Those vets are coming home and they will run for office, fill judgeships, become lawyers & NRA members. We are winning anyway, despite their best efforts to cause us a defeat. Not going to happen IMHO. It is not a Party thing, both dems & repubs. are standing tall in the fight.

I have faith in the American people...that the greatest majority will finally say "ENOUGH". Gun groups like the NRA, GOA, etc. have been smoking the competition. We have CCW carry laws. We have Castle Doctrine laws. Now, we are in the process of ridding ourselves with the onerous laws that prevent carrying in our National Parks. Win after win. From efforts by both good Dems. & Repubs. Self-defense laws that recognize our right to defend ourselves out in public, with no duty to retreat when faced with aggression. Reciprocity among the states (most), agreements made between the states to recognize each others CCW Permits. More wins for us. The elimination of "gun free zones" at Universities & schools is being fought right now. We will win that one too.

The Great State Of Montana telling the feds to go pound sand, when they finally said "ENOUGH". A broken contract & the Governor sticking his finger in their eyes. "Everyone has a right to a gun". That's what he said and he is dead right.

No....I don't believe hiding is a good defense. In fact I don't believe in defense at all in this case. Go for the throat, every time with overwhelming force & determination to win. Current x-ray technology will see right through any wall, any floor or ceiling. Small portable units exist in numbers across the nation in the trucking & shipping industries. Forget defense, get in the fight now when we can win without bloodshed. Or bloodshed will be the rule.

The Japenese armed forces didn't dare invade the mainland of the U.S. The knew they would be annihiliated by the armed American Citizen. Today, our combined armed forces wouldn't dare to try it either. I believe we would rise to the threat and they know it. They wouldn't be trying so hard for gun control if they didn't.

We will win this, either way, but we will win this. It is a matter of the will & the spirit.

IIChron.7:14. This is why we will win!

LeverBob
Keep you powder dry Pards!

North Bender · Post by **North Bender** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:19 am

"... the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada..."

Interesting gun forum! I noticed some good gun posts here.

I'm fumbling for my John Birch Society ID ... had it here somewhere ...

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:45 am

Tycer wrote:
RAC wrote:What good is a firearm you have stashed away underground?
Your great-grandchildren might be the ones to answer that.

Even one old 32 flinter and possibles dug up fifty years from now might feed them, defend them or help end tyranny.

Who knows. The Holy Bible and the Boy Scouts admonish us to be prepared.

Here is a novel idea... Why not fight tyranny now if need be so our grandchildren dont have to resort to fighting with obsolete weapons. It has never worked before. We have the power of the vote now so we can make a difference now.

bunklocoempire · Post by **bunklocoempire** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:49 am

ursavus.elemensis wrote:

I always say that my biggest concern about the security of our Nation is not the terrorists blowing stuff up in NYC, but the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada. Apparently, when the time comes, it will be our own military that will be holding the door open for the invaders, pointing out the best routes south.

My concern as well, along with Blackwater and any other "security contractors" who are setting themselves up for "the war on drugs", basically any who don't answer to our Constitution (and yes that means politicians as well who give the orders). Can you imagine the fallout from the next Oklahoma style bombing? Do we think Congress is gonna step up or will they throw more power to the president? But alas our government is keeping us safe, I'll just vote McCain and not worry about it.

'It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance.' - George Bush Sr.

Fear will be our downfall. Fear of terrorists, fear of drugs, fear of democrats, etc..

Bunkloco

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:57 am

JJ_Miller wrote:Guys I hate to bust your bubble but there is no way to hide firearms or parts thereof anywhere in or near your residence. Drug dogs will be converted to gun dogs and their noses cannot be fooled.

If you hid the weapons well enough to get by the dogs, it would take you a couple of days to access them your self, not very handy. How many times can one dig up and re-pour a cement slab every time you want or need a weapon.

And for the cold dead fingers crowd, it won't be only you shot, you will be forced to sacrifice your wife, sons and daughters.................then what.

One gunowning home in each town, or every block will be used as an example and we will all fall into line.........................don't fool yourselves.

THE BATTLE IS BEING FOUGHT NOW !!!!!!!

I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF GUN OWNERS WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE NRA, WHO STILL THINK THEY DON'T HAVE TO VOTE......WHO FOOL THEMSELVES INTO THINKING THEY CAN VOTE DEMOCRAT..........

ITS TIME FOR 80 MILLION OF US TO GET UP OFF OUR BUTTS AND VOTE, OPEN OUR WALLETS AND SEND IN 35 DOLLARS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HIDE GUNS..........

Sorry..........rant mode off now..........................................JJ

AMEN BROTHER!!!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:31 am

JP_TX wrote: The question that comes to mind is, if a body fears the government of either Clinton or Obama with both the House and Senate in Dem control, why are so many people deciding to sit out this election because there is no perfect conservative in the race.

I think it is because many of us also fear the government of McCain, and may even fear it more since Republicans won't have the gonads to oppose any sliding on the gun issue on his part, whereas at least some of the Republicans in congress would try to fight a Clinton/Obama gun grab.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:33 am

North Bender wrote:"... the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada..."

Interesting gun forum! I noticed some good gun posts here.

I'm fumbling for my John Birch Society ID ... had it here somewhere ...

Actually there's nothing Paranoiac about the new Canadian Treaty. It exists, and was/is written specifically to bring in "outside" troops - either US to Canada or Canadian to US - to help deal with Civil Unrest.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story ... 9d&k=14984

It was done almost in secret, and has a LOT of people on both "sides of the isle" worried.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:34 am

bunklocoempire wrote:ursavus.elemensis wrote:
I always say that my biggest concern about the security of our Nation is not the terrorists blowing stuff up in NYC, but the United Nations military coming over the northern border from Canada. Apparently, when the time comes, it will be our own military that will be holding the door open for the invaders, pointing out the best routes south.
----New World Order as run by the UN

My concern as well, along with Blackwater and any other "security contractors" who are setting themselves up for "the war on drugs", basically any who don't answer to our Constitution (and yes that means politicians as well who give the orders). Can you imagine the fallout from the next Oklahoma style bombing? Do we think Congress is gonna step up or will they throw more power to the president? But alas our government is keeping us safe, I'll just vote McCain and not worry about it.

----Ahh, but we must play along like good little subjects....

'It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance.' - George Bush Sr.

----Do the CFR and their ilk think the radical Islamists will stand by and let the NWO happen peacefully? The NWO may happen, but I do not think it will ever be peaceful. Poverty and religion mixes to make explosives every time.

Fear will be our downfall. Fear of terrorists, fear of drugs, fear of democrats, etc..

----Read the book State of Fear. The annotations lead to some great reading.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:13 am

Two books everyone should have:

Department of the Army Technical Manual "Improvised Munitions Handbook" TM 31-210

"AMMO! Forever" by Don Paul & David B. Smith

Both books are available from www.amazon.com

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:35 am

I need to see what kind of FPS I can get out of a 156gr SCWHP when crimped over a case full of FFFg...

It's them dang pesky primers that could be a problem.

I've only got 6K or so...

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:58 am

Gentlemen, if they ban guns, we are already at war.

"Three millions of Whigs, with arms in their hands, are a very formidable body.... The Acts must be repealed; they will be repealed; you cannot enforce them."
-- William Pitt

There won't be a total gun ban any time soon; the powers that be are too smart to whack that hornet's nest. They will keep to their baloney-slicing for a while. Besides, gun owners are cooperating with their own eventual disarmament, by sending their children to the government indoctrination camps, er, I mean, public schools, where they learn that guns are bad, bad, bad.

If however they do try a real assault weapon ban (not outside the realm of possibility), it will stop soon enough when some enforcers and politicians turn up dead. A fair number of folks are ready to do the deed. America ain't England, and we know we can't live forever.

Unfortunately, despite LEO claims to the contrary, I believe they will be (and have been in the past) FOOLED by their superiors; they won't get a call "go get farmer Jones' guns" - they'll get a call "we found out farmer Jones is a drug dealer, child pornographer, and just beat his wife up - take the guy down."

True enough, but not all will be fooled. And more will come to their senses in time when the house invaders get killed. Anyway a total gun confiscation is general, so it will be hard to pull the wool over LEO eyes this way for long. They will know what's up very soon. The smart ones will make the correct choice.

I don't think as a general tactic that hiding some guns is a bad idea. Backups are always a good idea. But any confiscation means war, plain and simple. There is no avoiding it.

Oh, and anyone who puts their faith in NRA or the Republican Party, to save their bacon, has not been paying attention.

One gunowning home in each town, or every block will be used as an example and we will all fall into line.........................don't fool yourselves.

Speak for yourself.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:11 pm

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU HIDE THEM IN THE HOUSE..
IF THEY DECIDED TO SEARCH IT THEY WOULD USE DOGS...
AND THEY WOULD FIND THEM....

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:38 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU HIDE THEM IN THE HOUSE..
IF THEY DECIDED TO SEARCH IT THEY WOULD USE DOGS...
AND THEY WOULD FIND THEM....

NO THEY WOULDN'T!!!!!! Spray Pepper Spray to screw up the dog's sniffers. Spray gun cleaning solvents (i.e., Hoppes No. 9) in various places. Put a little powder out. Put a gun in a piece of PVC pipe and glue caps on each end and wipe the whole thing down with Hydrogen Peroxide. Not matter what ya got in that tube no dog is going to sniff it out. You can screw up a dog real good if you use your bean and think about it.

POLITICS - Gun hide-outs ... just in case

POLITICS - Gun hide-outs ... just in case

are we speaking of the US govt?

Re: are we speaking of the US govt?

skills