44-40 wcf --help with basic overview of cartridge--thank you

[1894c]

Hi--I'm interested in the 44/40 wcf cartridge, but don't know a thing about it except what I read in my re-loading books. Could you guys, who have extensive experience with this cartridge, give me some basic information about it and if you have used it for hunting. I apologize in advance if this question has been asked--thank you... :)

[M. M. Wright]

You're talkin' about my favorite cartridge! Bought my first one in about '56 or so, (Colt SAA). Factory loads are wimpy but you can load it any way you want. Don't believe all that stuff about it being hard to load. Just remember it's a tapered or bottle neck case and you can't use carbide dies. I use spray lube with the cases spread on a plastic lid from a 5 gallon bucket. The lube is necessary or you will scratch your cases and dies.

I load most of my 44 WCF with ffg Goex these days and use it for SASS shooting but it works fine for whitetail out to 100 yards or so, out of a 92. I just don't want to load very hot loads in the 73 but 92s can handle it. The most useful bullet for it is 200 grains and needs to have a big grease groove in order to carry enough for your barrel length whether using black or smokeless. I no longer use any of the hard crayola, (just smell them to know what I'm talking about) lubes as I don't think they are capable of protection against leading.

Be sure to slug your barrel(s) as most modern barrels are .429 like 44 Mag while older ones can be much smaller. I use the .429 bullet for all of my 8 or 9 44 WCFs. The SAAs have had their throats opened up to take that bullet but the chamber may be too tight for RP cases which are a little thicker than Winchester or Starline. Never had a problem with rifles but Colt cylinders can have rather tight chambers that won't take the .429 bullet loaded in the thicker brass so I stick to the thin stuff.

I think it's the ideal cartridge for the man, or woman who wants a carbine and SAA in the same caliber. If you ever get hooked on the black it's also much cleaner to shoot because of the thin brass sealing the chamber so much better than a .45. Keeps the gunk out of the action.

[Martini450]

I'm with M.M. Wright on this, the 44-40 is one of my favorite cartridges, and I have two rifles in this calibre. The first, a 30" Uberti '73, I bought new in 1997, and the second is a 24" Taylor & Co '92 that was a birthday gift last spring. They are both very accurate rifles, but I've had much more experience with the Uberti so far. With handloads it prefers, the Uberti is capable of putting five rounds into about an inch at 75 yards from a solid bench rest (unfortunately, my eyes aren't as capable after fifteen years!).

As far as reloading is concerned, I've been handloading the same six or seven hundred cases since 1997-98, most of which have been fired between five and ten times. Frankly, I've never understood why the 44-40 has a reputation for being difficult to load; for me, it's no more challenging than the 45 Colt, for which I've been loading for the last fifteen years as well. Because the case mouth is thin, you have to be careful not to slam the case mouth into the die on the upstroke, but that should be true with handloading any calibre anyway.

Like M.M. Wright said, you'll definitely want to slug the bore of gun. I've no experience with the 44-40 in handguns, but both of my rifles slug out to a tight .427, so they like .428 cast bullets. I still haven't tried blackpowder handloads in this calibre yet, but the common knowledge on that question is that the thin case mouths and slight bottleneck configuration make the 44-40 (and 38-40 for that matter) a better choice for black powder than the 45 Colt because it seals better. I know that with smokeless loads, my 45 Colt handgun loads usually show signs of escaped gas, whereas my 44-40 brass never does.

I haven't hunted with the 44-40 (though I'll probably rectify that shortcoming this Autumn), but I can definitely say that if you're looking for a gun that's just downright pleasant to spend time with, you'll have a hard time making a better choice. Whenever I take anyone to the range, newbies or seasoned shooters, they always end up gravitating to the 44-40s. They look like history, they're easy on the shoulder, and it's hard not to like a rifle that shoots so accurately.

[fordwannabe]

I shot my Pennsylvania deer this year with a 44-40 in a 1889 marlin and the deer didn't know it was an under powered cartridge...it died. I use the lee boolit sized to 429 and a medium charge of Unique with good accuracy no leading and a real pleasant low recoil, very fun gun. I have to admit I am going to change my alloy as I got no expansion, gonna have to soften it up a bit. Tom

[JB]

It's a dandy small to medium game cartridge with modern powders. The 44 special can top it with any loading and the 44 magnum blows it away, but the 44-40 has the nostalgia of being a classic cowboy round.

[Alphawolf45]

I am going to make .44-40 chambering reamer this week to chamber the cylinder for a single action revolver I been building from scratch .Looking at the Saami specs sure makes me wonder why the cartridge is shaped that way.....Might be entirely understandable to persons who reload- I dont know anything about reloading.......gonna order a wheel barrow load of stuff this month in order to begin reloading....but,but,but,,,,,,somebody explain why the .44-40 chamber isnt just cut on a straight taper from rim to throat? ...I will make the chambering reamer exactly to the Saami specs but there must surely be science involved that is not apparent to this casual observer...mysteries,mysteries,mysteries

[JB]

I am going to make .44-40 chambering reamer this week to chamber the cylinder for a single action revolver I been building from scratch .Looking at the Saami specs sure makes me wonder why the cartridge is shaped that way.....Might be entirely understandable to persons who reload- I dont know anything about reloading.......gonna order a wheel barrow load of stuff this month in order to begin reloading....but,but,but,,,,,,somebody explain why the .44-40 chamber isnt just cut on a straight taper from rim to throat? ...I will make the chambering reamer exactly to the Saami specs but there must surely be science involved that is not apparent to this casual observer...mysteries,mysteries,mysteries

I've read the slight bottleneck made extraction easier with the old black powder reloads. It may have made feeding easier in lever guns as well.

[Martini450]

I am going to make .44-40 chambering reamer this week to chamber the cylinder for a single action revolver I been building from scratch .Looking at the Saami specs sure makes me wonder why the cartridge is shaped that way.....Might be entirely understandable to persons who reload- I dont know anything about reloading.......gonna order a wheel barrow load of stuff this month in order to begin reloading....but,but,but,,,,,,somebody explain why the .44-40 chamber isnt just cut on a straight taper from rim to throat? ...I will make the chambering reamer exactly to the Saami specs but there must surely be science involved that is not apparent to this casual observer...mysteries,mysteries,mysteries

I've read the slight bottleneck made extraction easier with the old black powder reloads. It may have made feeding easier in lever guns as well.[/quote

The round was introduced with the Winchester 1873 rifle, in which I believe ease of feeding was a consideration, but it was also a matter of more effectively sealing the breach and keeping black powder fouling from blowing back into the action. With the slight bottleneck of the 44-40 case, cleaning after firing black powder rounds is as simple as running a few wet and dry patches through the bore with the action upside down so that the dirty solvent doesn't get into the works. It's as true today as it was then, which makes the original 44-40, 38-40, and 32-20 rounds better choices for the calibres if a person intends to shoot much blackpowder.

[gak]

Many years ago, maybe 1980, before the advent of CAS and a resurrection of sorts of the .44-40, my first Rossi 92 was in this chambering. I loved it. A real hoot to shoot. A shooting partner--a guy with permanent magnumitis--used to joke how I might as well throw rocks at my target, the .44WCF--especially off the shelf--had such a reputation for being a little on the slow side. "Pow!-one thousand one, one thousand-thwap!" And so it was with out experience. But my friend became a convert, or let's say gave it more respect after our first shooting session with the 92. He marched off 100 yards in the desert and placed a bucket of sand, then mockingly taunted me by standing there waving his hands. Irritated (also mock) I waved him off and when clear proceeded to hit a quick 10 out of 10. Pow!--one thousand...thwap" I then told him "ok smart guy, you go out there and stand at that bucket." "No, that's ok!" Now I'm not saying that much past that 100 mark it didn't likely drop like a rock, but at that distance--about my open sight limit anyway--it was POA "deadly" I hunted with that 92/.44-40 combo, and though wasn't able to take any shots on those outings, I have no doubt it would have brought home the game. I had the same impression as a previous poster--the cartridge has a charm all its own and just reeks of history.

[Alphawolf45]

Interesting cartridge.. I am just as curious for "an overview" as the OP. I bought one box of 50 .44-40 Goex black powder loaded cartridges and am putting a gun together to try them for myself......Am also building a Winchester 1873 in .45 Colt, wondering if I might rather build it as .44-40 ..Am mining this forum for the various opinions...

[1894c]

I really appreciate all of your replies, you guys are a wealth of info...unfortunately you got me thinking (I see allot of old used Win.92 rifles where I live, must have been popular)...this almost seems to be the cartridge that "won the west" since it was loaded for both rifle and revolver...found a photo on-line to show what this cartridge looks like... :)

Up-date: In the article section of "leverguns" I found this article, enjoy... http://www.leverguns.com/articles/4440.htm

[Rusty]

By golly I think I just figured it out...


When game is shot with those old .30-30's and .44-40's they realize they've been shot with a nostalgic old cartridge and they just lay down and die to be polite.

[ollogger]

used Win.92 rifles where I live,[/quote]

What kind of money are they talking on them 92s?

ollogger

[w30wcf]

Interesting cartridge.. I am just as curious for "an overview" as the OP. I bought one box of 50 .44-40 Goex black powder loaded cartridges and am putting a gun together to try them for myself......Am also building a Winchester 1873 in .45 Colt, wondering if I might rather build it as .44-40 ..Am mining this forum for the various opinions...

Alphawolf45,
Please don't judge the capabilities of the 44-40 as a black powder cartridge based on the Goex Black Powder cartridges......they will likely foul out the barrel based on my experience and two other reports I have read.

The reason is that the combination of Goex powder and the bullet they are using does not hold enough lube for a trip down a rifle barrel. They are probably ok in a handgun.

Also they turn up about 1,100 f.p.s. in a rifle which is 200 f.p.s. less than the original ballistics.

Black Dawge / Goex is aware of the issue and is currently working on another recipe using a better b.p.

Here is a thread regarding b.p. in the 44-40. My handle there is w44wcf.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index. ... 683.0.html

This is what the good 'ole 44-40 is capable of using good black powder cartridges.
Note that 30 b.p. rounds were fired before this target with no cleaning.....




w30wcf

[1894c]

used Win.92 rifles where I live...
What kind of money are they talking on them 92s?
ollogger

$1,000.00 to 1,600.00, depends on the shape of it, there are two to three at my corner LGS, all around $1,100.00+, they look old, but very cool. They also carry the new Winchester's in .357 mag & .44 mag for $860.00, and one Browning Centennial '92 in .44 mag for $1,200.00 and some change--I only look, nice to dream. I really thought about pulling the trigger on an old one, you would get the history and the quality of a hand-fitted Winchester...but--thanks for asking... :)

[w30wcf]

Regarding performance on game.....

In Winchester’s catalog of 1875, users reported on the wonderful performance of the .44 W.C.F. on game. Here are a few of their testimonials.
..."I have fully tested the late improved Winchester Rifle and take pleasure in stating that it is the best rifle I have ever used. I have killed a number of deer, at distances from one to two hundred yards and in every instance, the bullet passed clean through the body."
..."I killed at a full gallop, at about 100 yards distant, a very large buckwith a splendid set of antlers with the first shot. The bullet struck him in the shoulder, as he ran toward me, and after traversing the entire length of his body, tearing the lights and paunch into atoms in its course, it passed out behind through the thickest part of the ham."
..."The killing qualities, at large game, is all that could be desired, to the wonder and admiration of the guides and sportsmen who saw its working during my visit to the Adirondack woods last fall."
..."I can say for one, that I think the Winchester Model of 1873 is the best firearm now in use for hunting and sporting; they give the best satisfaction to every one that has used them here. James Gary and C.S. Martin have killed 17 bears and 100 deer since the first of September with Model 1873.
..."For a sporting rifle, I think the Winchester Rifle is excelled by none. I have killed antelope, deer, and elk, with my gun, at from 200 to 400 yards. I would not exchange it for any other rifle."

129 YEARS LATER IT‘S STILL PERFORMING THE SAME WAY as reported by Doc Toombs on the SASS Wire - January 11, 2002.

“I took 2 deer this year with a ‘73 short rifle clone in .44 W.C.F. My hunting partner took 3 deer with a Marlin in 44 magnum. We both using hand loaded cast bullets, mine weighed 200 grains, his 240 grain. His came out of the barrel at over 1,700 f.p.s., mine came out the barrel at 1,290. All deer were shot at under 100 yards.”

The results:
- all deer dropped within 50 yards
- no bullets were recovered (complete broadside penetration)

“There was NO difference on effectiveness between the two calibers. Of course I still believe the Magnum is a superior deer cartridge. Probably the result of too many years of reading gun magazines.”

“But the reward of using a 73 in 44wcf with original velocity cartridges is immeasurable.”

w30wcf

[Glenn]

I am going to make .44-40 chambering reamer this week to chamber the cylinder for a single action revolver I been building from scratch .Looking at the Saami specs sure makes me wonder why the cartridge is shaped that way.....Might be entirely understandable to persons who reload- I dont know anything about reloading.......gonna order a wheel barrow load of stuff this month in order to begin reloading....but,but,but,,,,,,somebody explain why the .44-40 chamber isnt just cut on a straight taper from rim to throat? ...I will make the chambering reamer exactly to the Saami specs but there must surely be science involved that is not apparent to this casual observer...mysteries,mysteries,mysteries

Alphawolf45,
That straight neck is to hold the bullet. If the case were a striaght taper (when loaded), the bullet would only be held by the crimp (no neck tension).

So how does a 45-70 straight taper case hold a bullet? If you look closely at a loaded 45-70 round, you will see it has a straight, parallel neck section. The chamber is a straight taper, but the reloading die puts a parallel neck section on the case to hold the bullet.

Keep up the good work. Love your creations!

Glenn

[twobit]

All of you, or as we say here in Texas, Y'all might like reading this:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/44wcf.htm

Michael

[w30wcf]

Shooting the 1873 Winchester Rifle 44-40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C1xR2DyvkA

w30wcf