?about Speer 170gr JFP (.308")

[CEMENTHEAD]

Hey All,
I've been thinking of toning down my 308 Win loads a bit in my Remington 7600. The question is "can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"? I was envisioning a 250 yard or less load. This would cover 95% of my hunting needs, no elk, just deer and hogs.

Thanks for your opinions, Tom

[Malamute]

I believe William Iorg has used that bullet in his 307 with good results at that velocity.

Any decent 150 or 165 gr pointy bullet will likely work fine also, tho the Speer 170 has a decent BC.

[pokey]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

[Pisgah]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

2500 is considerably over normal velocity for less-than-maximum, factory-level loads. They rarely exceed 2100 fps out of the typical 20" carbine. I know all the charts show 2200, but I can almost guarantee that's out of a 24" barrel, having chronoed factory loads aplenty. Even from the optimistic level of 2200, 300 fps is a considerable boost.

Still, I have used 170 gr. Remington and Speer flatpoints on deer out to 200 yards out of a .308 at about 2500. At longer ranges, no problem -- great expansion and penetration, bullets hold together well. At shorter ranges, I recommend broadside ribcage shots only on deer-sized game. Spectacular, almost explosive expansion and terrific internal damage -- but don't expect much through-and-through penetration at the higher speed. I witnessed one buddy take a 50 yard shoulder shot on a small buck. The buck died, but the shoulder was utterly destroyed with the leg being left attached only by a strip of hide, and it ran 200 yards before collapsing, with no evidence of penetration to the vitals except by a few fragments.

[DerekR]

Somebody (Federal?) used to make a factory "reduced recoil" load for the .308 using that bullet. I have bought some to do the same as you are planning for my Ruger RSI. I figure with the 18 1/2 inch barrel I could get a little less recoil and muzzle flash. She will light up the woods at dusk/dawn with regular loads!

What powder were you thinking of using?

[Buck Elliott]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

Speer's top load for the .30-30 with their 170 gr FP runs at 2118 fps..

Chronographing a number of .30-30 factory loads, several years ago, showed that none of the 170 grain rounds topped 2,000 fps from a 20" carbine barrel.. Most of them did not exceed 1920 fps.. Loads from Federal and some old Imperial/CIL stuff were the fastest..

2500 fps is Upper .307 Winchester territory....

[Nath]

My old Speer manual list that bullet for 307 loads!

N.

[CEMENTHEAD]

What powder were you thinking of using?

I was thinking TAC, BL-C(2) or Varget. Those are what I have on hand right now.

I think this bullet will hold up fairly well. I'm going to call Speer Monday morning and talk with their techs.

Thanks, Tom

[Buck Elliott]

My old Speer manual list that bullet for 307 loads!

N.

As does the Speer #14 Manual...

[3leggedturtle]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

Speer's top load for the .30-30 with their 170 gr FP runs at 2118 fps..

Chronographing a number of .30-30 factory loads, several years ago, showed that none of the 170 grain rounds topped 2,000 fps from a 20" carbine barrel.. Most of them did not exceed 1920 fps.. Loads from Federal and some old Imperial/CIL stuff were the fastest..

2500 fps is Upper .307 Winchester territory....

Buck; thats unbelievable. My Lee 170gr FP at 1700fps is almost the equal of a factory load. And only cost about 1/10th what the factory loads do. Doenst surprise me too much, since my RP 25/20 86gr FP only chrono'ed a little over 1000fps from a 24" barrel

[CEMENTHEAD]

My old Speer manual list that bullet for 307 loads!

N.

As does the Speer #14 Manual...

This should be a good match up. The 307 Win is basically the same cartridge as the 308 Win. Same dies. Maybe 2400 fps is more realistic to shoot for.

Thanks, Tom

[pokey]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

2500 is considerably over normal velocity for less-than-maximum, factory-level loads. They rarely exceed 2100 fps out of the typical 20" carbine. I know all the charts show 2200, but I can almost guarantee that's out of a 24" barrel, having chronoed factory loads aplenty. Even from the optimistic level of 2200, 300 fps is a considerable boost.

Still, I have used 170 gr. Remington and Speer flatpoints on deer out to 200 yards out of a .308 at about 2500. At longer ranges, no problem -- great expansion and penetration, bullets hold together well. At shorter ranges, I recommend broadside ribcage shots only on deer-sized game. Spectacular, almost explosive expansion and terrific internal damage -- but don't expect much through-and-through penetration at the higher speed. I witnessed one buddy take a 50 yard shoulder shot on a small buck. The buck died, but the shoulder was utterly destroyed with the leg being left attached only by a strip of hide, and it ran 200 yards before collapsing, with no evidence of penetration to the vitals except by a few fragments.

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

Speer's top load for the .30-30 with their 170 gr FP runs at 2118 fps..

Chronographing a number of .30-30 factory loads, several years ago, showed that none of the 170 grain rounds topped 2,000 fps from a 20" carbine barrel.. Most of them did not exceed 1920 fps.. Loads from Federal and some old Imperial/CIL stuff were the fastest..

2500 fps is Upper .307 Winchester territory....

don't believe i specified a factory load or a barrel length, merely that,
that same projectile has been known to travel at the asked for velocity
in another cartridge, without apparent problems.

[Buck Elliott]

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

2500 is considerably over normal velocity for less-than-maximum, factory-level loads. They rarely exceed 2100 fps out of the typical 20" carbine. I know all the charts show 2200, but I can almost guarantee that's out of a 24" barrel, having chronoed factory loads aplenty. Even from the optimistic level of 2200, 300 fps is a considerable boost.

Still, I have used 170 gr. Remington and Speer flatpoints on deer out to 200 yards out of a .308 at about 2500. At longer ranges, no problem -- great expansion and penetration, bullets hold together well. At shorter ranges, I recommend broadside ribcage shots only on deer-sized game. Spectacular, almost explosive expansion and terrific internal damage -- but don't expect much through-and-through penetration at the higher speed. I witnessed one buddy take a 50 yard shoulder shot on a small buck. The buck died, but the shoulder was utterly destroyed with the leg being left attached only by a strip of hide, and it ran 200 yards before collapsing, with no evidence of penetration to the vitals except by a few fragments.

"can I use the Speer 170 gr JFP at about 2500fps and not have a failure"?

what kind of failure?

that is not much above 30wcf velocity [ if any ] , should be fine.

Speer's top load for the .30-30 with their 170 gr FP runs at 2118 fps..

Chronographing a number of .30-30 factory loads, several years ago, showed that none of the 170 grain rounds topped 2,000 fps from a 20" carbine barrel.. Most of them did not exceed 1920 fps.. Loads from Federal and some old Imperial/CIL stuff were the fastest..

2500 fps is Upper .307 Winchester territory....

don't believe i specified a factory load or a barrel length, merely that,
that same projectile has been known to travel at the asked for velocity
in another cartridge, without apparent problems.

Wasn't arguing.. Just adding information..

Sometimes, I do that...

[1894cfan]

I know the OP mentioned the Speer 170, but years ago I worked up a load for my ruger RSI using the Speer 150JFN using 26gr SR4759. don't know the velocity, but would guess about 30/30 equivalent(sp?), gives about 1.5" at 100yds in my riffle. HTH

[william iorg]

I have used the Speer 170-grain bullet on our whitetail deer loaded to 2,575 fps and a bit beyond.
This is a wonderful bullet in the 307 Winchester, as stated above it retains its weight and penetrates well.
The Speer bullet also has a good BC for a flat nose bullet. My understanding is Speer has changed their mind and reinstated the Hot Core bullet line.
You can use a longer coal in the 308 Winchester than I can in the 307 Winchester. I use Hodgdon Varget for best accuracy and Alliant reloader 15 for highest velocity.
I agree the factory 30-30 is under loaded. I have chronographed several factory loads which just broke 2,000 fps from the 20” barrel carbines.
In the 26” barrel rifle the Remington 170-grain factory loads chronographed 2,335 fps.
Good loads in the standard 30-30 from a 26” barrel will just reach 2,450 fps using Alliant Reloder 15.

[earlmck]

In the 26” barrel rifle the Remington 170-grain factory loads chronographed 2,335 fps.
Good loads in the standard 30-30 from a 26” barrel will just reach 2,450 fps using Alliant Reloder 15.

And with Hodgdon's LVR a lot of folks are hitting 2400 fps at (apparently) normal 30wcf pressures, at least from 24" barrels. I haven't chronod it with the 20" barrel so don't know what the loss is from that 4" reduction but it shouldn't be much over 100fps.

According to the QuickLoad ballistics program the Speer 170 started at 2400 fps is over 100 yards downrange before it drops to the 2100 fps level that the normal factory load achieves with the normal 20" barrel. So I guess us 30wcf fellers should think a bit about the bullet construction of the old 30 bullets in our new faster loads, which I had not previously thought about. Maybe I can find a coyote to try the new load on to make sure it goes on through. Thanks for bringing up the question, CEMENTHEAD.

[jager3]

I've "clocked" Federal 170gr. factory 30/30 in a 20" BBL Marlin at 2158fps and 2344fps(avg) in a 26" BBL 1899 Savage, which seems to be unusually high. Most 150gr factory loads only show a difference of 100fps with the same rifles whether the factory loads are Federal or Winchester. (The Marlin 336T has a "micro-groove" barrel.) When loading 170gr bullets, I prefer the Speer "flat nose" in a "tubular" magazine because of its .288 (advertised) B.C. The Speer bullet has always been accurate in my rifles and I've never had one "come apart" on a deer; but then, I've never used it above 2400fps or employed it on game less than 40 yards. I'm sure, like most "lead core" bullets, it can prove to be a "failure" used outside of its designed "envelope". If anyone of you here say that the "speed limit" of this bullet is 2500fps for maximum effective use in most hunting situations, I would tend to agree. Thanks!