Open letter to on-line retailers... If you want business...

[Hobie]

... watch the shipping.

I don't mind paying for service, quality and I recognize you gotta pay to move something from one place to another. But you kill your business when when you charge 3X as much as your competitors.

In this case I wanted a mould and one place charge $16 and change for the mold and $15 and change for shipping. Paid a slightly higher price elsewhere and 1/3 the shipping to get overall much lower price. No, it was NOT MidwayUSA.

[JerryB]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that feels this way. I paid more than half in shipping of the price for a 1911 belt slide from Sportsmans Guide. There is no need for that kind of greed, If a company has to do that to stay in business they should get out.

[Griff]

... watch the shipping.
I don't mind paying for service, quality and I recognize you gotta pay to move something from one place to another. But you kill your business when when you charge 3X as much as your competitors...

+1

[adirondakjack]

I'm with you there. When I started my online biz 5+ years ago, the very first pricing decision was "all prices INCLUDE shipping". I figure the only number a buyer needs is what to write on his check. Shipping is not cheap, but even I get insulted when a supplier charges $15.95 to MAIL two pounds of stuff parcel post, when I know it would go in a small priority mail flat rate box for $5.

[SteveR]

When I started my online biz 5+ years ago,

Just a thought, maybe you can become a sponser here for LeverGuns? I would like to see your store and maybe do some business. If you are a sponser forgive my asking, I just didn't see a link from the main site.

Steve

[Bill in Oregon]

I agree Hobie. I recently bought some .30 Remington brass from an outfit called Reed's. They had the best price by far, but not when the "shipping and handling" was tacked on. And what do you know, it came in a small $5 flat rate box!

That said, I'm the guy that agreed to pay the price, so have mainly my own self to blame.

[madman4570]

Hobie your exactly right many companies have found that it's easier making the profit from charging a high P/S/H charge.
Just look on TV,seems about everything for sale now says (you get two for same price)JUST PAY ADDITIONAL PROCESSING/SHIPPING/HANDLING (notice lately they have added processing)

So, bottom line: These companies make something they know is stuff,(cost em $5 to make)sell it to you for $8 (do the ACT NOW AND WE WILL SEND YOU ANOTHER ONE FREE less p/s/h )So they have spent $10,charge you $16 However they charge you $6 and another $6 for P/S/H and could care less if you want your money back(that little clause at the bottom that says 100% money back if not delighted) LESS P/S/H
They figure "maybe" 30% of the people will spend the time getting back money and they have made $12 on the P/S/H that actually cost them $4


This world is greedy!

[bdhold]

it's one of those customer service factors.
Customer service is everything in business.

[Triggernosis]

And check this out: I took a package to the local UPS Store yesterday to mail....it had a pre-paid UPS label already on it, but I hadn't taped the top shut yet - the gal at the counter said it would cost me 75 cents for them to tape it shut. Really!? Yep, "that's the policy if we pack it". They didn't have to pack it, just apply an approx. 10" long piece of clear tape. And I'm one of their regular customers..... Well, I WAS one of their regular customers.

[pdawg.shooter]

And if you want my money, make your web site simple enough for us computer idiots to find what we are looking for. I changed suppliers last year for just that reason. My old supplier (over 30 years) "updated" his web page and I couldn't fine anything. I now spend all my money elsewhere.

[Hobie]

I agree Hobie. I recently bought some .30 Remington brass from an outfit called Reed's. They had the best price by far, but not when the "shipping and handling" was tacked on. And what do you know, it came in a small $5 flat rate box!

That said, I'm the guy that agreed to pay the price, so have mainly my own self to blame.

I get you there. But I'm not even talking about fraud, which is what that is. As someone after you pointed out, they charged the $16 for shipping PP when they could have paid the $5 USPS Priority flat rate (and they get those boxes for free). That is just plain dumb. I have long looked at total cost vs time waiting. This is an item my boss wouldn't order so I just did it myself otherwise I could have bought it from him for what I paid for the item less the shipping although I'd have had to wait an additional week or so.

[stretch]

"Shipping and Handling" has long been seen as a profit center
by some corporations. Sometimes they go overboard, though.

Let's look at an example or two:

1. Let's say you buy a couple of thirty cent screws you
need for your pet hunting rifle next weekend. No one local has 'em,
so you call your favorite supplier. He ships 'em out. $.60 for the screws,
and $7.95 S&H. Okay, so the post office wanted $3 to send it quickly.
Did the merchant rip you off for $4.95?!? I don't think so. He's got
to pay somebody to answer the phone, write the order, pick the
merchandise, address the label, and pack it all up. If he doesn't take
enough money in to do all of that while making a profit, he's out of
business. $4.95 above actual cost in this case sounds an awful lot
like usury or greed, but with the price of labor, heat, insurance, fuel, etc.,
it ain't. 'Course he could charge $4 a screw, and the ACTUAL shipping cost,
but then nobody'd buy his stuff at all. "He's WAY overpriced!"

2. Let's say you buy a Swarovski spotting scope at just shy of a gazillion bucks,
and they charge you $14.95 S&H. Nobody squawks a bit. The ACTUAL SHIPPING was
probably a little higher than the screws, but the cost of HANDLING that item is about
the same as the $.30 screws, isn't it?

3. Now what if you buy both items at the same time from the same vendor?
He'll almost certainly charge you $14.95 for S&H. He's making enough profit
on the scope to be able to cover the handling of the small items, and the
two extra screws in the scope box don't change the shipping charge at all.
If he charges $21.95 to ship the scope and screws, most people would still
not blink an eye because of the price of the glass. But if you placed
the order for the scope, finalized the price as in #2 above, then remembered
you needed the screws, added them to the order, and were charged an
ADDITIONAL $7.95 S&H, you'd blow a gasket! And rightfully so, I think.
Nearly everybody here would say that that was an unreasable shipping
and handling charge.

Part of the issue is our perception of things from the customer's persepective, part
of it is the reality of today's business environment, and part of it is how we compare
prices between competitors.

In the end, the cost of the mail-ordered item is the price of it DELIVERED TO YOUR
DOOR. Once you've figured THAT out, you can compare it to the TOTAL price from other
vendors, and can then decide to "pay the freight" or not.

That said, I'm the guy that agreed to pay the price.........

Bill makes an awful good point there.

-Stretch

[adirondakjack]

Some of what Stretch says is true, and honestly, I can see how a big outfit with big overhead EITHER pads the shipping on small items or institutes a small order fee to cover those kinds of nearly fixed costs to process an order.

I do this every day. Lets say I pull up an online order for a $169 item. I create a shipping label for the item, print it and an invoice, box it up and attach the $5 USPS priority mail label. If my time is calculated at say $7/hr, it might cost me directly $3 to process the order, not counting any indirect costs like heat, lights, etc (and I still haven't taken it to the post office, which means a vehicle, more time, etc I don't even include in my thinking) I shrug it off as "cost of being in business.

Now suppose I get an order for $9 item? I go through almost exactly the same steps, except I don't process a USPS priority mail label. Instead I create a shipping label, and when I get to the post office, I have to stand in line to pay the actual postage. If I calculate my time at minimum wage, I can't possibly make any money on a $9 item. BUT I DO, and here's how. That $9 item is two things. It is a "loss leader" that attracts business and additional sales as folks "add to cart" other items, AND because it is priced well below the industry norm, some folks buy 2 or 3 of em at a rip. Now DUH! a $27 order processes as easily as a $9 order, and ships for almost the same postage. There's the profit IF yer smart.

But no, many outfits will add a "small order fee" and soak you on shipping, which tends to work against folks grabbing two or three of them at a time. They are reacting in fear of the bargain hunter who will spend HOURS chasing prices to save a buck or two here and there, flooding the marketplace with five different orders from five vendors for five items, each a buck or so cheaper than the norm, instead of finding the best overall deal and just getting on with it.

I do think the inclusion of shipping in the sale price is the way to go for online stuff. The seller is honest, telling you up front what your total will be, and you're not played for a sucker, only finding out the shipping cost AFTER you've jumped through the checkout hoops, investing time that will many times make you reluctant to stop the process, but leaves the bad taste that you got snookered.

The down side for the buyer on "included" shipping is if he buys multiple items it COULD cost him more. The smart buyer can simply CALL and ask "can I get a price break if I buy 10 of these instead of one?" I do that all the time too.

Ever watch the coupon cuckoo shows? These folks who get $1000 worth of groceries for $20? Vendors live in fear of those kinds of people and price accordingly. I suppose if I got "hammered" a time or twenty, I might too.

[El Chivo]

I believe in being smart with the shipping to help the customer. The idea is to keep costs down and make online shopping cheaper than going to a store (these days it costs me $3.00-$6.00 in gas to drive to a store anyway). By being smart I mean if someone is ordering two tiny screws, as a sales clerk I would offer to stick them in an envelope and send them first class for $1.00. An extra minute or two, but it's a waste to pack it in a box meant for a regular order and then charging $7.95. Using your head is a big plus in retail, but not many companies can do it. The clerk who types it up probably doesn't know how it's going to be packed.

What I have on my site is flat rate shipping of $2.95. If it's a cheap item with no profit, the rate covers the actual shipping and then some (which pays for the envelope, wrapping paper, etc). If it's a larger order, I still charge $2.95, but the extra profit I get from the extra items defrays the extra shipping cost. A big fat $40.00 order will probably cost me $4.00 to ship, but I now have enough profit to let it go. And the $2.95 looks negligible to someone placing a big order. So it's fair to me and to them, and it's easy to comprehend.

After I did this for a year, my competition started copying my policy, only they charged more!

Most of the companies I buy from on the web offer free shipping after a certain amount is reached. So I tend to gang up my orders to reach the free shipping plateau. This helps them and me. A good example is Amazon.com, just order that extra DVD to reach $25.00 and the shipping is free.