Marlin Jam Driving me Crazy (45-70) - What would you do?

[71fan]

After a long search a few years ago I bought a Marlin 1895S 45-70. I wanted the pre-safety, pistol gripped rifle for a conversion I was planning with David Clements, to 348 DC. That's about the time the 338 ME came out and made the 348 DC sort of impractical, from a money standpoint. But the rifle was already at Clements' shop when I changed my mind about the 348 DC, so in turn, the rifle turned into a souped-up 45-70. I've had the rifle back for about two years now, and it has yet to function properly.

The first time out, there was a mag tube malfunction. The entire rifle went back for a new mag tube due to him using a spliced one that hung up and got the mag spring and follower all fouled up. I paid for shipping one way.

He got that worked out, and the next time out the lifter/carrier was jamming beneath partially fed cartridges (the Marlin Jam). I was anxious to shoot the rifle, so I cleared the jam a few times and shot a few groups feeding single-shot style. The rifle shot four shots into one ragged hole with open sights at 50 yards. Wowza.

I sent pics of a jammed cartridge to David and he said 45-70s don't jam. I said OK, but this one does. He gave me some suggestions on what to look at and I tinkered a bit with it, went out again, and it jammed. This time I called him from the range. I'm sure he got the hint that I was frustrated.

He had me send the lifter/carrier to him so he could take a few thousandths off somewhere on it, which he said should work. I did send it, and it didn't work. It jammed on me last week when I finally got it back out to the range.

Four range sessions, four incapacitating jams. And incidently, I have been trying several kinds of bullets / ammo, from Leverevolution to 405s to 500s. All jam, usually on the third or fourth shell out of the magazine (it holds five). So....

He wants me to send the whole rifle back again (I get to pay for shipping again) so he can look at it, but at this point I'm sort of thinking of cutting my losses and taking it somewhere else. I've sort of lost faith in Mr. Clements.

What would you do?

[Buck Elliott]

You're asking ME..?

I'd sell it, tomorrow, to someone I didn't like at all, and leave in a whirlwind to find a Winchester 1886, which I would buy and never look back.. Stronger and easier to carry than any Marlin built...

(Or a 71, but you already knew that...)

[Old Savage]

Sounds like a Clements jam - if he is the one who changed it.

[PaperPatch]

This sounds like something that happened to mine. My 444 was locking up as the cartridge was sliding onto the lifter. One of the additional symptoms was that the cartridge case was being heavily gouged along its length.

Upon removing the loading gate...I observed a very sharp burr on its inner surface that was gouging so deep into the case, further travel was brought to a halt. The lever would lock, and only disassembly would remedy the jam.

I filed the inner loading gate surface smooth....works good ever since.

Worth a look...good luck!

[Mike D.]

What would I do? Buy a Winchester, of course.

[claybob86]

You probably know this, but the only way I've ever been able to get a Marlin to jam is by cycling the action too gently. Also, from what I've heard, the 1894 is prone to the "Marlin Jam", not the 1895 or 336.
Good luck and keep us posted!

[71fan]

You're asking ME..?

I'd sell it, tomorrow, to someone I didn't like at all, and leave in a whirlwind to find a Winchester 1886, which I would buy and never look back.. Stronger and easier to carry than any Marlin built...

(Or a 71, but you already knew that...)

Well, I've got the 1886s and 71s covered. Now who could I find that would buy a busted custom Marlin....? I guess technically all Marlins are busted and just waiting to manifest their true selves. So it should be expected by any potential buyer that it's already busted, so disclosure is unnecessary. Thanks Buck, for helping me work that out in my head.

[71fan]

...was locking up as the cartridge was sliding onto the lifter. One of the additional symptoms was that the cartridge case was being heavily gouged along its length.

Bingo...sounds just like mine. Good information...I will look into that. But I haven't noticed any significant damage to the cases yet. Thanks!

[Buck Elliott]

I'm just glad I could help...
I knew you could reason it all out..!

[earlmck]

Over the years I've had two marlin 336's do the "Marlin jam #1" and I know if you go over to "Marlinowners" you can do a search on that "Marlin jam #1" and find info on fixing the problem for the 336 style actions. I used a little different technique than other folks have used, which involved JB welding a bit of curved metal (I used a piece of spoon handle) in a strategic spot so the lifter starts up a tad bit quicker. I posted on it here sometime within the last year. I'll see if I can find you a link to mine, but I'm sure you can search out some fix suggestions. Don't sell the gun just yet: if the cause is the same as for the two I have fixed the fix is quick and easy and for both of those rifles (a 1950 era 336A in 30wcf and a late 80's 336 in 35 Rem) I still have them and they have never jammed again.

[earlmck]

OK 71fan, I found my link and not only is my stuff there but helpful stuff from other folks. Try http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... marlin+jam

[adirondakjack]

Earlmck is on the rabbit here. As in travel by elevator, timing is everything.

[Mainehunter]

Sorry to hear about the problems your having with your Marlin. On a side note I did have Clements build me my first 5 shot 45LC years back. It worked flawlessly and quite accurate. He was great to talk to and listened what I wanted in my project but in this situation we are talking about two different firearms. I would try to work with David on this one. That's to much money that you forked over especially being a custom built rifle. That's my two cents.

Mainehunter

[kimwcook]

71fan, that sounds very, very frustrating. One would expect a well known gunsmith to have the ability to make sure that type of thing doesn't happen and if it does it is fixed the first time back. If it were me doing the gunsmithing and I knew a rig had a problem. I'd cycle, shoot or whatever I had to do so I made sure it was fixed the first time it came back. Dissatisifed customers make for bad press and I surely wouldn't want that. I've had a couple of "Gunsmiths" known to be good with certain platforms not be good with all. I, as well as many others, have paid our dues on these type of Gunsmiths. Not all are created equal. I know Clements is a well known gunsmith and hate to see this type of problem because I've been there before.

I'd take the carrier out and bend it up like Steve said in the link Earl provided. It appears to be a fairly easy fix. And, you probably won't get near what you've got in that Marlin by getting rid of it. I only have one Marlin, a 94 and I haven't had this problem. Thankfully. Best of luck.

[foxtrapper]

I sent my Marlin 1895 cowboy to David for a chop, throat, internals smoothed, trigger job basically all things needed to have the rifle run flawlessly which it does. That said your rifle should be sent back on his dime and not returned until it works as he advertised !

[Pitchy]

You're asking ME..?

I'd sell it, tomorrow, to someone I didn't like at all, and leave in a whirlwind to find a Winchester 1886, which I would buy and never look back.. Stronger and easier to carry than any Marlin built...

(Or a 71, but you already knew that...)

I probably would of agreed before i bought my 1895 Cowboy.
Lighter, sleeker, smoother, all around more pleasant of a gun to carry and shoot than my 86.

To answer the question i`d find someone who can fix it right then you`ll love the gun. My cowboy 45-70 will function perfect and smooth with it laying on its side ejection port up after i tuned it up.
Yours sounds like as mentioned the carrier needs bending or may be some mag tube issues
video

[AJMD429]

I'd not 'give up' on Clements - it's darn near impossible to fix a gun over-the-phone, so he really needs a chance to lay hands on it. I can see a case for him paying shipping if the gun only did that since he worked on it; he should have tested it out before sending it to you.

[Blaine]

I had the same thing on an 1895GS w/ports. Some WD40 to lube the tube squared things away. I suspect that covered up a flaw in the tube that "wore in" after time, because I don't think it does it anymore. Cost me a deer the first time it happened, about 10 years ago

[marlinman93]

I'm surprised nobody has questioned OAL of the ammo being used? Is it factory loads that should be OK, or custom loads? OAL is critical to goof bunction, and in unmodified guns it's one of the things that can cause malfunctions quickly.
If Dave simply changed the mag tube length, then he might not have even fooled with the carrier, so maybe he didn't cause the problem. It definitely sounds like a carrier issue, and replacing it might be a good solution to the problem, unless it can be reworked.

[pricedo]

Sounds like a Clements jam - if he is the one who changed it.

Your mistake, your freight bill........that's the rule.....or at least it should be !

Clement should be backing his work.

If it's his mistakes that are causing the jam ups then he should be paying shipping BOTH ways.



**NOTE: I make a point of running a wire brush down my magazine tubes followed by a mop-up swab or two with a light rust preventative, lubricant as a part of regular maintenance.

I do this each & every time that the gun has been away for repairs/modifications.

Crud, metal cuttings, rust, dirt, cosmoline, oxidized grease & lubricant deposits can cause jams.

It doesn't take much of an obstruction of built up deposits to jam up those close fitting magazine followers.

The throat of the magazine where the follower sits with the magazine empty has to be meticulously clean.

It's surprising how many levergunners forget to clean & lubricate inside their magazine tubes.

[Blaine]

The throat of the magazine where the follower sits with the magazine empty has to be meticulously clean.

Maybe that's why the WD40 worked.....desolved the gunk and cleaned it up when I cycled it a few times.

[71fan]

The rifle has a new barrel, mag tube, bedded stock, and action/trigger job. I've tried factory Remington, Leverevolution, and 405 and 500 LFNs from Ten-X. The problem has occured with all the ammo.

I have printed all of the suggestions here as well as Earl's stuff in the other thread. I tinkered a bit with it tonight and as usual it feeds / cycles just fine with dummy rounds. It always has functioned fine in the garage. It only malfunctions when it's being fired and cycled, which leads me to believe the recoil has something to do with it.

I'll have more time this weekend to do the various things folks have suggested. And hopefully I can get to the range within the next week or two.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions so far and keep 'em coming.

Here's a pic of the culprit...she sure is a fine looking rifle, and carries and points like a dream (Even a bit better than my 71....... ) Now if only she barked when fed.

[claybob86]

... it feeds / cycles just fine with dummy rounds. It always has functioned fine in the garage. It only malfunctions when it's being fired and cycled, which leads me to believe the recoil has something to do with it.

Gremlins.

[Leverdude]

I know he has a good reputation but I have to qustion any smith that does major work & doesnt check function. On another note its not rwally a "Marlin jam" if the cartridge is part way out. The Marlin jam is when the lifter gets stuck nunder the rim of the next one & cant lift the current one inline with the chamber. Sounds like the lifter is coming up & binding on the case. The lifter raises up a little to cut off the tube as the round slips into the reciever. If its too high it can bind & if the case wont come all the way in things get stuck. Or it could just be crud in the tube port. Could be alot of things, but thats what you pay a smith for.

[Tom Richardson]

If you want a Marlin to be slick and work as it should send it to Mic McPherson.

http://www.levergun.com/

Mic is one of if not the best when it comes to Marlin lever guns.

[.45colt]

My Blood is starting to boil just thinking about this. another example of terrible customer service. cut Your losses with Him and go elseware. I would think anyone building a custom rifle like this would shoot at least a box of factory ammo thru it before shipping the gun out.

[Thunder50]

If you have a friend with an 1895, see if you can swap carriers with them, to see if it is a faulty carrier.

[kaschi]

Here's how you solve that problem and it's guaranteed to work: GET A BROWNING OR WINCHESTER 1886! Mine have never jammed once.

[J Miller]

kaschi,

That kind of comment isn't any help at all. 71fan has a lot of time and money invested in this rifle.
"IT" needs repaired, not replaced.

71fan,
Here's my suggestion for what it's worth.
Put on a happy disposition and call Clements and discuss it with him. Tell him exactly what it's doing, and what ammunition it's doing it with, and that nothing he's done has corrected the problem. Then request he pick up the tab for the second time around and send it back to him. A suggestion he actually shoot it with the same ammo you use is also in order.

If that doesn't work, then do as Tom Richardson suggested and send it to Mic McPherson.

Joe

[71fan]

Thanks for all the comments guys, and keep 'em coming. I am collecting all suggestions and leaning toward (a) tinkering with as many home remedies as are feasible just to make sure it's nothing simple (including switching out the carrier with my buddy's 1895 - good suggestion ). If that doesn't work it's (b) off to Mic McPherson.

I just don't have it in me to send it back to Clements. I hate to shell out additional dough...in fact I'm quite P'd about it, but I want/need it to perform right and I don't think I'd ever trust the rifle to perform unless I go to someone else. It would always be in the back of my mind..."is it going to jam, AGAIN?"

And about the Winchester comments, I really don't mind. It's all in good fun. And quite frankly, I've never had a jam in any of MY 71s or 1886s either. The only two modern Marlins I've owned both jammed. The other is a 1894 Cowboy that locked up a couple of times in CAS matches. Perhaps I'm just unlucky.

[williamranks]

Could it still be the mag tube? Is it still spliced instead of one piece? A burr on the follower?
How many rounds in the tube when it happens? Try 3 rounds and see if it feeds.

[Pete44ru]

My $0.02 - I'd:

1) Stone the inside leading edge of the loading gate with a round India stone.

2) Since recoil seems to = jam, I would investigate that the magazine tube isn't coming unseated, causing the misfeed, then reseating back into place when the gun is handled for examination.

BTW - Regarding Marlin bigbore mag tubes: they all should have a bulge near the rear end that should be oriented on the side opposite the loading port at install. I would additionally ensure the correct mag tube was also correctly positioned.

.

[Griff]

If a bit of additional lift on the carrier doesn't solve the problem... send it to Mic. (Especially since it sounds like you're frustrated with Clements, ...and who wouldn't be at this point).

[Charles]

"Custom rifle", often means cranky rifle as well. Send it back to the gunsmith and this time include some of the ammo you use when it jams. The rifle may function well in his shop with dummy or factory round, but not with the loads you use. [/color]