Wolves coming to CA

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:10 pm

There was a BIG front page headline reading "WILL CRY OF THE WOLF RETURN?". It seems that a lone male gray wolf known as OR7 has made a trek of over 700 miles from North Central Oregon to extreme Southern Oregon, a short distance from the state line. Animal lovers are ecstatic that the wolf will soon call CA home after a nearly 90 year absence. Northern CA ranchers do not share their feeling and are eying the incoming wolf(wolves) with trepidation. The resident deer and elk herds could suffer depredation by wolves, but some wildlife biologists claim that the wolves are good for big game populations, only culling the old or infirm. Not so, says I, there will be no good happening with the wolf being a resident of the once Golden State. Personally, I hope that OR7 meets a "lead curtain" when he is found trespassing on CA soil.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:22 pm

Mike, there is and only can be one solution and that is the S.S.S. top secret society.

.....DON'T TALK ABOUT IT...............................................................................

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:27 pm

Tell me the names and organizations of the Biologists who claim the wolves are good for big game populations.

I would contact their superiors, government heads, RMEF and other organizations to see that they are removed from their positions.

Good greif, take a quick gander at Idaho, Montana and Wyoming (creep up into Canada if you need to) and check out what wolf effect is on big game populations.

Sick and the old is a myth. Wolves feed on the next available animal, healthy or not, now, being unhealthy makes you more vulnerable, but wolves do not seek out old, and sick.
But that is what Californians want, the elk and deer herds reduced, that way they can scream about hunting seasons, and then end that. Then bitch about taxes and not having any money, yet stopped a big source of possible income if they INCREASE elk/deer herds!!!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:27 pm

"It's actually a reason to celebrate" said Suzanne Asha Stone, Northern Rockies representative for the group Defenders Of Wildlife, which led the chaarge to reintroduce wolves to the West. "I didn't think I'd see it in my lifetime." Sadly, she did. Simpletons like her, and her organization, are clueless to the reality of wolf reintroduction.

Our elk herds are small enough already without the addition of another apex predator and the deer have been so mismanaged by CA F&G that the buck to doe ration is low enough that wolves could conceivably severely damage their population. It is not a winning situation for anyone except the bleeding heart wolf lovers. You can bet the farm the wolves will be Federally protected and no matter how many cattle, deer and elk are wantonly slaughtered by them. SSS it shall be.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:58 pm

Behind every Tree, Under every Rock and beneath every piece of Shale will be an armed gaurd to make sure nothing happens to Ol OR7. Wonder what would happen if He made it to the Coast and decided Seals were delicious. It could happen.
Perry

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:19 pm

I guess he went right by us Central Oregon folks and was gone before we knew he was around. Do you suppose he picked up some bad vibes?

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:46 pm

The included map showed that he moved from near Burns to just outside Medford in two months. If he wanted he could be in Yreka in a week. that ought'ta give the Siskiyou County ranchers some Christmas joy.

Udy · Post by **Udy** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm

I am afraid of what the Oregon packs will be in 5 more years.
It will be too late to do anything about it at that point.
I hope you fellers down south can do something to stop it before its too late.
Right now we are not even allowed to kill one if its attacking your dog right in front of you.
Who ever thought this was a good idea needs to get fed to them.

willygene · Post by **willygene** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:41 pm

wolves are sport killers and don't care how old or slow the animal is that's why they hunt in packs the odds are on their side.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:56 pm

The whole idea is to eliminate game animals and thus eliminate interest in hunting. That is the point and the purpose.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Mike D. wrote:Personally, I hope that OR7 meets a "lead curtain" when he is found trespassing on CA soil.

Sadly, you may need to refer to it as the "Copper Curtain" before too long.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:24 pm

Sounds like you need to catch a few wolves and take them down to SoCal or the San Francisco area and see what they think of wolves around. Bet they wouldnl't like it too much.

DBCinID · Post by **DBCinID** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:43 am

In Idaho we have an extra 1,000 or wolves that we would love to send to California.

I agree with Old Savage, the Defenders of Wildlife and other animal groups know exactly what they are doing. They understand that by eliminating/seriously reducing game animals, then there is no need for hunting. I believe it is much like the spotted owl issue, many do really ador the animals, but many know that the ESA is an effective tool to implement their agenda.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:23 am

Mike, don't worry, it will be fine.

Thats what they told us in the Rockies. And see, the sky didnt fall, or the world end.

Just lost a lot of elks, and moose aren't doing well in many places. And they spread out far past the areas and numbers that they said they'd stabilize at. But it will be fine. The state can manage them whatever whay they see fit after they reach their target numbers and areas. Oh wait, that didnt work out the way it was originally said it would, some folks have forgotten that arrangement and fought any state management like it was the end of life as they knew it if the states did actually manage them in any way.

It's for our own good.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:39 am

I have hunted, hiked, fished and trapped beaver on the western edge of OR7's current location. It's nice, secluded country, almost all Forest Service land. Not a bad place for a wolf to set up shop. It will sure make hiking the Pacific Crest Trail more interesting.
I don't mind a wolf in the local woods, but draw the line at griz. Last one in Oregon was killed near here in 1912.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:45 am

Mike -- You're familiar with my area of CA (Alturas). Proceed about 40-miles North up U.S. 395 to the town of New Pine Creek (the CA/OR border splits the town), take a right just as you go into town (U.S. Forest Service Road #2) and go up to Lilly and Cave Lakes. Wolf sightings have been reported there and by reputable citizens no less one being a BLM Ranger and his partner. There have been two Elk kills found up there with no human or cougar signs around the kills.

I can just imagine wolves proceeding down the Warner Mountains from the New Pine Creek area through the Honey Lake area near Susanville and up into the Sierras.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:51 pm

Ed, we had a long time family friend that ranched up near Likely. The name was Williams and their place bordered Johnny Flournoy's. I shot some great bucks up their back when CA only had 2 areas, East and West. Now that it's a boogered up I have not been back except to hunt arrowheads. Personally, the wolves won't bother me until they make it to San Benito Co.

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:00 am

All the K9's including the wolf, and all the big cats haven't wiped all the grass eaters of the face of the earth in the last couple of million years, and I doubt they will in the next couple on million years. But mankind might.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:35 pm

"The whole idea is to eliminate game animals and thus eliminate interest in hunting. That is the point and the purpose."
--Ol' Savage

I thought that for awhile now. I know more than a few who want to reintroduce wolves, mountain lions, coyotyes, etc. They are also anti-hunting and anti-gun.

Coincidence??...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:11 pm

They are west and in the Cascades of Washingon.....

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:31 pm

One good thing could be that they will attack CA legislators. Nah, on second thought wolves don't eat Democrats, they taste like s**t.

Rafe Covington · Post by **Rafe Covington** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:05 pm

Old Savage wrote:The whole idea is to eliminate game animals and thus eliminate interest in hunting. That is the point and the purpose.

I have been saying that for years, the herds get too small we have to stop hunting. That is the goal behind the wolf program.

Rafe

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:28 am

willygene wrote:wolves are sport killers and don't care how old or slow the animal is that's why they hunt in packs the odds are on their side.

Dogs are sport killers and often kill without eating any of their prey.

Wolves, deer, elk, etc. coexisted here for hundreds of thousands of years without exterminating each other. The only time either became endangered was when man began hunting them all and they all almost went the way of the bison. Who are the sport killers? What it is really about is that a lot of hunters don't want to 'share', not even a small percent. Huiman changes to the habitat has done more damage to game levels than all the predators combined but we keep making babies and building shopping malls. The pot calls the kettle black. The reason there isn't enough game to go around is not because of too many predators it is because of too many people, including hunters. Our fish populations has suffered the same fate but that's probably because of coyotes.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:48 am

willygene wrote:wolves are sport killers and don't care how old or slow the animal is that's why they hunt in packs the odds are on their side.

They hunt in packs for the same reason honeybees collect nectar in packs. They are social animals. If it is so they can gang up on defenseless prey why dont lions and bears adopt the same hunting technique? Like a lot of human huinters they will given a choice go for the easy kill. They don't care how many points it has or how it scores in Boone and Crocket. Why would they take on strong healthy easy to catch prey when there is old, sick, or crippled prey that is so much easier? Are the masochists?

I am a native Californian and I can tell you that since WW2, at least, the biggest threat to deer was too many deer and California's stupid bucks only hunting regulations, regulations forced on game management people, against their recommendations, but hunters themselves. After WW2 California had the nation's largest deer herd estimated at 1-1.5 million animals. California tried an either sex season in 1956 and it resulted in the largest deer harvest in history. The hunting lobby went ape and got it reversed. The next two years were the 2nd and 3rd largest harvests. That is because reducing the herd made for a healthier and more fertile herd. Healthy does should produce twins but in California they were averaging one fawn. The typical picture of California is one of forest with the lower branches cropped as high as a deer can reach. Stockmen know what causes that, overgrazing or overbrowsing.
A hundred years ago deer were already an endangered species in much of this country. That was before professional deer management when hunters followed their own instincts. The same with turkeys, elk, bear, waterfowl. The fact that these have recovered fabulously is due to professional game management and not to the advice of eboard eggspurts.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:20 am

Marlin32 wrote:Tell me the names and organizations of the Biologists who claim the wolves are good for big game populations.

I would contact their superiors, government heads, RMEF and other organizations to see that they are removed from their positions.

Good greif, take a quick gander at Idaho, Montana and Wyoming (creep up into Canada if you need to) and check out what wolf effect is on big game populations.

Sick and the old is a myth. Wolves feed on the next available animal, healthy or not, now, being unhealthy makes you more vulnerable, but wolves do not seek out old, and sick.
But that is what Californians want, the elk and deer herds reduced, that way they can scream about hunting seasons, and then end that. Then bitch about taxes and not having any money, yet stopped a big source of possible income if they INCREASE elk/deer herds!!!

Then why were bear and lion populations eleminated in many states. California grizzlies were exterminated by bounty hunters hired by the ranchers. Same with wolves. In California more deer are killed under agricultural depredation permits that a few wolves or bears would take. If they get too populous have a trophy season for them. Why should we have to spend our hard earned money on hunts in Canada or elsewhere. When I was in Oregon several ranchers on the east side of the Cascades were arrested for gut shooting elk that were feeding in their alfalfa fields. Gut shot so they would die elsewhere. Farmers and ranchers have no love for deer, elk, wolves. bears, beaver, ground squirrels, prairie dogs, marmots, etc. It is all about selfish narrow minded personal interests. Neither do farmers. No one wants them around populated areas where they threaten people, destroy crops, cause property damage, especially auto collisions. In many states almost as many deer are killed by cars as by legal hunters and predators aren't even in the running. They estimate that between 1/32 and 1/35 of their deer population is killed by autos annually. Where is the call to ban cars or to revive the 55mph speed limit. Given all of this why are some so quick to see this as a conspiracy by the animal lovers or anti-hunting lobby. Different people have different interests and different values. Get over it. We have to share this world together.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:08 pm

Somebody sitting in NYC,LA or Seattle has no idea what impact wolves has on game or livestock, just like I have no idea what goes on in those places. The feds wouldnt even listen to their own expert when the 1994 final rule was implemented, Valerius Geist, about predator pits that wolves wipe out all game in complete drainage's. Why have all the elk around salmon ID moved down from the mtn tops to the town, Why is the northern Ystone elk herd gone from 20K head to 3500 head since 95, the elk harvest in NW MT dropped by 50%, the bitterroot herd dropped so low that F&G authorized helio gunnery for wolves. And of course theres the recompense to stock owners hamburger price for seed stock and chicken feed price for high dollar horses, the gov doesnt pay its defenders of wildlife a NGO if you can prove that the wolf killed the animal. eating it dont count as it could of been dead before hand. wolves and grizzlies cannot co-habitat with man thats why they were run to ground but people that dont grow their own food dont have a grasp of this. If you believe in game management and you get to many animals you thin them out whether is meat animals or predators. The wives tale about ranchers/famers gut shooting elk happens about as often as a blue moon ranchers get money from F&G for damage and big fees for letting hunters come in and harvesting the game thats causing damage, called damage hunts that happen before & after the regular season. I've had first hand experience with wolves, bears(both) & cougars taking stock . A wildlife expert told me that predators that come down and pester people are missing a couple of trace minerals in their system, copper and lead. danny

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:52 pm

Danny, Danny, Danny... you're missing an opportunity here!

What ya gotta do is catch your local pack(s) and just ship them down to one of these places &/or Hollywood & Vine...

Your "loss" is their gain... and the wolves that don't get AIDS won't be hungry any more!

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:29 pm

I'd rather be in an area with 50 grizz than in the same area with 50 wolves.. The big bears are mostly solitary critters, while wolves live and travel and hunt in packs.. It puts the big dogs at a decided advantage. To add to the problem, bears are omnivores, and will eat just about anything and everything, while wolves are exclusively carnivorous...

You folks on the left coast, who seem to feel so smug and unconcerned right now, have no idea what lies in store for you, in the very near future...

For a little background, Google Agenda 21 or the Wildlands Project, to get a better idea of the philosophy behind the wolf program.. Add to that an emergent, radical animistic religion, called Wolfism, and you get a very frightening picture of what we have been dealing with, in the Intermountain West, since the early 90s...

It ain't purty..!!!!!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:31 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:I'd rather be in an area with 50 grizz than in the same area with 50 wolves.. The big bears are mostly solitary critters, while wolves live and travel and hunt in packs.. It put the big dogs at a decided advantage. To add to the problem, bears are omnivores, and will eat just anboy anything and everything, while wolves are exclusively carnivorous...

You folks on the left coast, who seem to feel so smug and unconcerned right now, have no idea what lies in store for you, in the very near future...

For a little background, Google Agenda 21 or the Wildlands Project, to get a better idea of the philosophy behind the wolf program.. Add to that an emergent, radical animistic religion, called Wolfism, and you get a very frightening picture of what we have been dealing with, in the Intermountain West, since the early 90s...

It ain't purty..!!!!!

+1^(10^100)...

Can we secede? Please?

pricedo · Post by **pricedo** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:44 pm

Sometimes the 9-5, salaried (with gold plated benefit & pension packages) fed & state conservationists & do gooders who hang out in air conditioned offices 20 stories above the sidewalk don't see wolves as a problem like people who live off the land do.

That many more predators competing for the same domestic & game animals & last I heard the 2 legged variety of predators have dibs on livestock, game, feeding themselves & surviving.

My fail-safe "zero tolerance" policy for wolves on my property is shoot, dig, bury, shut-up.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:44 pm

OR7 is here! Yes, he can't read the sign and waltzed across the border above Yreka. He is being followed by the usual phalanx of watchers and protectors so any chance of SSS is out the door for now.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:59 pm

sheesh, we got illegals sneaking into the state from the south .....

now we got another bunch sneaking in from the north .......

I say: just give 'em a driver's license, some welfare, and the sort of yob a resident doesn't want.

Cheers,

Carl

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:10 pm

Oh but He carries a lifetime Green Card and U caint touch Him without being caught. I would suspect that He is more closely gaurded than BO Himself.
Perry
P.S> He's staying on the other side of the Mountain,that's a good thing.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:39 am

"P.S> He's staying on the other side of the Mountain,that's a good thing."

NOT ANY MORE! HE'S HERE!

http://www.redding.com/news/2011/dec/29 ... om-oregon/

SHASTA

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:17 am

Probably a bunch of Seal huggers formed a perimeter and drove Him East.

Wouldn't want Him eatin no Seals now. Do I sound like I could care less if Someone dusted OR7 ? I Hope so.
Shasta ! did You read any of the comments after the story? mixed bag for sure.
Perry

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:32 am

since everyone always likes pictures ......

http://news.yahoo.com/wolf-crossed-cali ... 19764.html

Cheers,

Carl

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:06 pm

http://www.redding.com/news/2012/jan/05 ... ta-county/

So now he is in my county.

The eastern part. Where my favorite rifle range, Hat Creek Rifle & Pistol Club, is located. And I have lever action silhouette matches there both days this weekend. Hmmm.... guns.... stray wolf.....

SHASTA

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:07 pm

from the website: "Oregon's famous wandering wolf seems to be staying out of trouble after settling for now in the southern Cascades, but there are no signs he has found a mate yet."

wandering wolf ?? sounds more like somebody from Hollywood ....

Cheers,

Carl

Gaucho Gringo · Post by **Gaucho Gringo** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:23 am

If wolves aren't the devils handmaidens then why are they so reviled in folklore. Centuries of writing about wolves have not portrayed them as anything but bloodthirsty killers. 2000-3000 years ago to the almost present time they have always been written as bloodthirsty killers, about the only animal that mankind has feared. I would say take all the wolf lovers out in the wild and let them spend a few weeks with the wolves. I can guarantee you that the survivors would have a very different mindset if any of them were still alive. It's only going to be a matter of time before they start killing people again.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:28 am

I'm fast reverting to my old training. Dog is very good, monkeys too....grubs, worms, beetles............... protein all. Just meat to me. If I can't have venison, then I'll eat a wolf...that simple, it seems to me.

I guess we'll just have to learn how to grill wolf & coyote....seems like that is where we're going.

Oh, I forgot...it will be a target rich environment....food all around when the bad times come & they are coming soon. No humans however...let the critters have that mess.

It probably will come down to that. I suppose tastes will change when you're real hungry. A fine wine (if'n you can find some), some beans & chunks of wolf...don't bother me none.

LB

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:59 pm

CA Fish & Game posted a map of the wolf's travels:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/nongame/wolf/

SHASTA

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:32 pm

All the reports I've heard about "OR7" is that he's travelling alone. I think that's hogwash. I'd bet he has two or more other wolves traveling with him. Not every wolf has a tracking collar.

Anyway, I've got a really nice shotgun with a rifled barrel and with sabot slugs (Remington Copper Solids), it is very accurate out to 150 yards. Since the slug travels through the barrel in it's sabot there are no ballistics to be taken from the slug.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:27 pm

Let's see, I believe that he's headed up Co Rd 54 and should come up S. West St.

sometime tomorrow afternoon.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:44 pm

Mike D. wrote:Let's see, I believe that he's headed up Co Rd 54 and should come up S. West St. sometime tomorrow afternoon.

If he does Mike, he'll end up with a copper taste in his mouth.

grass range · Post by **grass range** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:22 pm

An underhanded way to eliminate hunting as the wolves will take care of the game if allowed to multiply. No hunting; many then won't want guns.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:13 am

Hey Mike D. Check out where that wolf is (red dot). He is about 15-miles West of U.S. 395 and is approaching Madelline,CA and Moon Lake (the first lake on the right as you look at the map). If he reaches there he will be about 40-miles South of Alturas. Then all he has to do is make a run up by Westside Reservoir (the second lake on the right as you look at the map) and then he'll be in Modoc County at Likely, CA and then on to Alturas -- another 18-miles. If he follows the route I've just described, I'd say he'll likely (no pun intended) head for/into the Warner Mountains.

It'll be interesting to follow OR7's progress.