Wood stove for small space?

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:56 am

Yesterday I bought a 29 foot travel trailer ($650) to use for what I've coined a "detached den". It's has air, a good size refrigerator and a few other goodies. Gonna demo the interior, trim it out and move business and hunting stuff out there. I have access to a good, air tight wood stove but it's big enough to good job on heating a house let alone the small interior of the trailer so I'm looking for advice on some smaller stoves for the new den. Any ideas?

LK

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:18 am

DIY gas bottle stove? Check youtube.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:27 am

Since you are gutting it and doing a redo-------------

Insulate the stuff out of it and put in a $29 digital/programable pelonis heater??
Should heat it easily(set it what you want)24/7
Running it 24/7 will probably run around $70 a month but do the math------usage vs cost.

No smell/I don't like the non-vented gas/kerosene space heater.(the stink and suck to much oxygen)
The Pelonis can keep it set whatever you want??

Put it this way---I have a big tri-level ranch.(I have a lot of woods)(I have a Newmac Combo Furnace)
Screw the wood cutting/haven't even flipped the breaker to the furnace yet

this year????

And---it's cold out(snow today/in the 20's/30's with a steady 18mph wind
What's heating my home-------(1) Generation III 1000 Eden Pure (set at 3/4 output) keeps house steady 72 Degrees
In the basement------(1) $29 Digital Pelonis Heater set to 65 (runs about 5 mins every hr)

Wife said today(are you going to order any oil for furnace this year?? (last year ordered 300 gallons)I haven't even looked at it.
I said----ya---called about 2 hrs ago and ordered 350 gallons(if that much will fit in my 500 gallon tank)???

Honestly(with a very well insualted home(I like electric)running those two electric units run about $80@ month during the 5 months.
So $400(electric) and "maybe" 300 gallons of oil????probably more like 200 gallons?(screw cutting the wood/or carrying bagged pellets/coal

Nice thing---The furnace stays like new(not used much)so I filter a year in blower compartment.

In that rare event the power ever does go out----(I have a nice new propane kitchen stove)that 1 burner turned on randomly will suffice.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:02 pm

Heads up----
If you/whoever decide to try the Eden Pure(I recommend the Generation III 1000)
I at first insisted on getting the USA made new model (USA 1000)(but I tried two and they were junk(bad circuit boards)
Unfortunately the Jap ones are the good ones?????

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:26 pm

I have a wood stove in a confined space (my office/shop). I went through every one I could find looking for something that required little side or rear clearance, etc, and ALL OF THEM scared me either in terms of fire danger if not allowed sufficient space, or PRICE. The most appropriate would cost a king's ransom.

So I built my own. Technically NOT a stove, but rather a "masonary heater", the brick stove has no metal parts except the door (3/16 plate) and the hinges etc made of 1/8" steel. Now here's the trouble with it for your application. It needs it's own foundation (will not sit on a trailer or even a house floor) as it weighs about 1000 lbs. I raised the level of the slab that was under that part of my shop, using blocks to make it floor level (aafter making a cut-out in the wooden shop floor) and the heater is built on it. It is 20" wide, and 24" deep, and has 6" rear and only 3" side clearance. The fire box is 9" wide, 13" tall, and 18" deep. It burns bigger limb wood or fairly fine split hardwood and keeps the shop toasty with no threat of burning it down. Once the 1000 lbs of brick is warm, it heats for many hours after the fire is gone.

Above the firebox is a serpentine path lined with fire brick to help scavenge more heat from the rising smoke. The 6" smoke pipe runs out the side wall through a "false chimney" made of a flue tile section and bricks. It spans between the wall studs, the sheet rock and exterior siding are cut away, leaving just that brick bit, 16" wide, 20" tall. Then the pipe continues in the traditional manner, ending up 3' taller than the roof for proper draft.....

Now that's what REALLY works without burning the place down or gassing yourself with CO in a tight, confined space. But yer unlikely to do all that. If ya need a small, iron or steel stove for spot heat for a short time, look to MARINE Stainless steel or iron stoves, but pay attention to this. You MUST use all the heat shields and so forth or you will burn your trailer down, AND yer gonna want outside firebox air (not draw from the room) and absolutely sealed oor CO will get ya in a trailer. These stoves are expensive, tiny, have no real mass, and require constant feeding to heat more than a tiny space (like the cabin of a small sailing vessel they were designed to heat).

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:58 pm

These are good stoves:
http://www.walltentshop.com/KKampstove.html

Harry

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:03 pm

In my modest but decently insulated older mobile, I bought a Waterford free standing propane stove. Works wonderfully with no electric needed to run the thermostat. Propane has been over 5$$ a gallon delivered, so I have been using three electric space heaters, keeping the propane stove set at about 55 if the electric goes out while I'm gone. I penciled it out, and the three electric heaters are about a fourth or fifth lower than if I had to fill up the propane all the time for heat. I'm thinking about letting the propane company have their tank (and sole source contract

) back and I'll get a couple smaller tanks that I can handle by myself and use a duel tank setup. That way I can switch tanks, fill up one at a drive up facility, and have the stove running on the other while it's being filled, then vice-versa it a few days later. These stuff-head gas people want to take you're every penny in the winter

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:47 pm

asirondakjack,

Very impressive work. Tell me, is there ever a need to clean the serpintine smoke pathway? If so, how?

BlaineG,

You're wrong, the propane company doesn't want your every last penny during the winter. They'd like them during the rest of the year too!

Cat

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:51 pm

Propane has been over 5$$ a gallon delivered,

Then you're gonna hate me, just bought 400 gallons at $1.85/gal delivered.

The den will have propane and/or electric (Trailer came with both) for keeping it 50 or so but I'm pretty much set on wood at least for a auxilery heat source. I already burn a lot of wood in the house (Have yet to turn on furnace) so I always have some around. Tell the truth it's not gonna be a great money saver and may not even be cost effective but it's a want as much as a need.

LK

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:13 pm

Then you're gonna hate me, just bought 400 gallons at $1.85/gal delivered.

That's great. If I take my own tank in, it's still around 2.50 a gal. I wonder if Washington Stasi Tax is really that much?

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:15 pm

I liked my LOPI in my small modest Maui home: http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide ... spx?id=242

If you want the retro look hard to beat a Vogalzang Potbelly Stove: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _2053_2053

If you want more compact Vogelzang makes their "Lit'L Sweetie" Boxwood Stove: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200394664

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:19 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote: Then you're gonna hate me, just bought 400 gallons at $1.85/gal delivered.

LK

$1.85 a gallon?!

If I lived in Iowa I'd convert both my car & truck to propane!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:19 pm

Ji, you need a heater in HI?

Cruise · Post by **Cruise** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:43 pm

We lived aboard and cruised a 47' sailboat for a number of years and had a Dickinson diesel heater. It was great in Northern climates and functioned flawlessly. Defender Industries is one source and is a reputable outfit to deal with. Many marine supply houses have them as well. They have been building them for years. There is a window in the front to enjoy the flame. Here is the link:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 5&id=48944

Dickenson also makes a solid fuel heater: The Newport (link here)

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/dheaters.php

Newtmaker · Post by **Newtmaker** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:57 pm

Ji, you must live half way up Mauna Kea!!!!

Walt

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:04 pm

NOt sure if a wood stove is safest option. Make sure you have clearance and the right pipe going up out of the "den"

If looking for a small stove, check out the Marine stoves for use on small ships/boats.
They make a couple different sizes, cook tops and I think a diesel model too.

LIttle Cod, or Herring or something they are called, (sardine maybe?)
Just googe marine stoves and you find them.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:41 pm

madman4570 wrote:Heads up----
If you/whoever decide to try the Eden Pure(I recommend the Generation III 1000)
I at first insisted on getting the USA made new model (USA 1000)(but I tried two and they were junk(bad circuit boards)
Unfortunately the Jap ones are the good ones?????

To be fair---(my electric rate is pretty cheap)compared to some states.(on the PA /NY border so I get Penelec Electric)
These units on a average national electric rate run about $1 per 8 hrs usage.($3 per day run constant 24hrs)------$90 a month???

But $90 ???----------------------will buy about 23 gals of #2 blend fuel oil?????????????

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:44 pm

IMO, combustion that does not use an outside air system, in a sealed room, is not a very good idea.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:49 pm

BlaineG wrote:IMO, combustion that does not use an outside air system, in a sealed room, is not a very good idea.

+1

That's the thing about these Eden Pures (they don't seem to deplete the Oxygen)
Have to say------watch those VENT FREE GAS UNITS(BIL has one in his family room in the basement and when he uses it you can actually feel it cutting off your breathing and within 2 hrs use(it goes out)??????????

And this is just a normal sized ranch basement finished???????????????

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:03 pm

With regard ANY electric heater, the laws of physics cannot be cheated. I don't care if it's a simple "toaster" box or fancy at OMG prices, 1500 watts is all yer gonna get, and 1500 watts is gonna cost whatever that costs in your area. Remember, the OUTPUT of electric heaters that plug in a normal 110 outlet are limited by the current they can draw, and none of em is more than 1500 watts. Best bang for the buck on electrics are probably the small ceramic element type with a QUIET, multi-speed, fan and thermostatic control. For under $30 these little "cubes" work pretty well IF electric is cheap enough and the area to be heated small and well-insulated enough.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:32 am

Consider insurance ramifications of wood heating. Requires special rider on local policies here and fires result in a lot of denied claims.

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:35 pm

adirondakjack wrote:With regard ANY electric heater, the laws of physics cannot be cheated. I don't care if it's a simple "toaster" box or fancy at OMG prices, 1500 watts is all yer gonna get, and 1500 watts is gonna cost whatever that costs in your area. Remember, the OUTPUT of electric heaters that plug in a normal 110 outlet are limited by the current they can draw, and none of em is more than 1500 watts. Best bang for the buck on electrics are probably the small ceramic element type with a QUIET, multi-speed, fan and thermostatic control. For under $30 these little "cubes" work pretty well IF electric is cheap enough and the area to be heated small and well-insulated enough.

After being an electrician for 34 years I can tell you that every word adirondakjack typed is the total truth. The only thing that those great big expensive remote-controlled heaters give you that the little cubes don't is 1) a remote and 2) a much lighter wallet.

Cat

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:31 pm

Catshooter wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:With regard ANY electric heater, the laws of physics cannot be cheated. I don't care if it's a simple "toaster" box or fancy at OMG prices, 1500 watts is all yer gonna get, and 1500 watts is gonna cost whatever that costs in your area. Remember, the OUTPUT of electric heaters that plug in a normal 110 outlet are limited by the current they can draw, and none of em is more than 1500 watts. Best bang for the buck on electrics are probably the small ceramic element type with a QUIET, multi-speed, fan and thermostatic control. For under $30 these little "cubes" work pretty well IF electric is cheap enough and the area to be heated small and well-insulated enough.

After being an electrician for 34 years I can tell you that every word adirondakjack typed is the total truth. The only thing that those great big expensive remote-controlled heaters give you that the little cubes don't is 1) a remote and 2) a much lighter wallet.

Cat

Dude-----I know what your thinking but,

Got to say-------------------------these work better????
How can I tell--------------------????
Well when you have one in your home that is the ONLY thing heating the home and is keeping it 68 degrees and then you replace it same day/same outside temp/same wind condition/ with a second one(again the same make/model/a new one same model as the first one and it still keeps the home 68 on HI at constant run condition/then same day/same temp/same wind condition/you switch to the Eden Pure and it keeps the house on auto mode 3 bars down from HI cycling on/off and keeps it at 73 degrees( why???)and I mean within an hour of use.
Also it is absolutely apparent when you just step back(or put you hand up close)the Eden Pure puts out more heat???

I hear what your saying with the electricity/heat deal but I am telling you step back 6-8ft from the Eden Pure and what it feels like is the heat that comes out of a forced hot air furnace duct. The other ones(you have to put your hand up close and even then(just don't feel that type heat)???

If it's just our minds thinking it works better(it must be controlling our Calibrated room thermometer too

)

No argument to anyone just saying for us------wow it works better?(still haven't turned on furnace yet)??
Being also educated from Penn Tech (BSS Electrical) and also Mitutoyo Metrology Institute(mechanical Metrology) and with 31 years as a Lead Electronics Metrologist ???

Don't sell em/Don't care if one single person buys one----------------but they do work better.
At least compared to the Pelonis Ceramic Disc Furnace and also the Pelonis Digital 1500 heater

I will research as to the difference their Quartz/copper tubing /3 chambers ???? what these do differently.The walnut box/remote means nothing.

So???---------
If your saying 1500 watts is 1500 watts and the material or design of the heater means nothing----Such as let's just say something like a Convection Heater.

Are there more efficient ones making more out of not only their wattage output????---------------
Maybe like these being something that utilizes a heating element in a bath of oil or water.
Like a finned oil electric heater.

No problem guys----I say use what ya like.
All I know(aint cutting no wood/carrying tons of bagged pellets/coal or blasting the furnace with $4 @ gallon oil
One Eden Pure upstairs and the little Pelonis downstairs.(if the basement didn't heat so easily,I would buy another Eden Pure)

How did I get involved with one????
Was up to my 80 year old Aunt's for a visit and she had just got one saying how good it worked for her daughter's home.
I did noticed it was very quiet/and when I put my hand down next to it about 3ft away(and her's was about halfway up)I thought holly cow----Man that feels like it putting out some serious heat??????

Anyhow (not where she got her's?)at this Family owned Lumber Company I go to (they sell a lot more than lumber)for the last 30 years and the owner is big time on only selling good stuff(before even considering selling it he took it home and used it 3 months 2009 to see if it actually worked better than other little box cheaper units)bottom line he said the whole family said it heats much better??????? Now he is a dealer of them.?????

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:44 pm

Ji, you need a heater in HI?

That was my question. I thought Paradise was always, well, paradise.

AkRay · Post by **AkRay** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:58 pm

A Toyostove that runs on heating oil would provide all the heat you need, and it would be efficient enough that it wouldn't cost that much to operate.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:25 am

BlaineG wrote: Ji, you need a heater in HI?

Newtmaker wrote:Ji, you must live half way up Mauna Kea!!!!

Walt

I lived at 4000' elevation on the slopes of 10,000' Mt. Haleakala. Coldest it got in my 12 years there was 31 degrees. Above me I could see snow on the summit.

I miss the cold, hate the heat and humidity of sea level here.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:29 am

Consider insurance ramifications of wood heating. Requires special rider on local policies here and fires result in a lot of denied claims.

That's the beauty of a $650 man-cave! Ya don't have to worry much
about insurance and formalities like that.....

It would cost
more to insure than the place is worth..... Fire is always an issue with
any heating applicance - care is warranted for sure.

I've had very good luck over the past couple of decades with
those little ceramic electrical heaters. They seem to convert
electricity to heat more effeciently than many other options,
and they're quiet and fairly economical to run. We use one
just to warm up the kitchen in the morning rather than turn
on the furnace or turn the pellet stove up. It will even heat
our rather small house on warmer days.

i like wood, though. If the fuel can be gotten for free, or nearly
so, a small woodstove project would be a fun way to go.

-Stretch

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 am

AkRay wrote:A Toyostove that runs on heating oil would provide all the heat you need, and it would be efficient enough that it wouldn't cost that much to operate.

You know what really bugs me?
My brother has one of them (I think its a Toyostove??)Its called the Double clean(2 wick unit)
Now, I have to admit,this unit is unreal for efficiency (absolutely NO SMELL)and I think it runs 23hrs on 1.6 gallons and puts out around 20,000 BTU (it really is something)

The problem is (he told me)Japan closed production to the USA(they have the patent)because of some guy having a garage fire and they were trying to blame the heater??? Japan---said screw you USA

Now,a used one is about the price of a nice 1886 Win and new ones??? No more.
He ordered about 30wicks last time in case they stop selling them(course knowing him,he would make his own if need be)

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:06 pm

madman,

You're far more edjamakated than me, I'm just a dumb wireman. You're the dude with the EE BSS. So I would ask you right back, how's that work?????

If you input 1500 watts, how do you get more watts out? You can't even get the full 1500 out, you know that, nothing is 100%. Burying the element in stuff is a gimmick. A 1500 watt nicad wire is a 1500 watt wire, end of story. The wire couldn't care less if it's bent, straight or wound into a curly-que. Power goes in, resistence increases, heat comes off.

Wait, does the EdenPure have it's own half-wave reduced voltage nuclear phase seperator? I failed to think of that, that must be it!

Cat
Never even seen an EdenPure so I can't comment.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:52 pm

Cat,

Dude,
Trust me,I can't figure why this sucker heats so good

My one brother can't either and he has his Master's EE from Penn State and 38 years as a Senior Electrical Engineer.
All I can say is something is up???
Here what it seems,ya know when you take a infrared lamp and put your hand in front of it and it feels really warm?
However when it isn't making close contact with any object it seems to in an open space not heating as well.
I am telling you,when you are 6ft away from this sucker and it is 3/4 on high this thing feels like you got your hand by a heat lamp(at that distance)

OK,right now as I type its frigin cold/damp/windy as heck.
That single Eden Pure is heating my house a steady 73 degrees.Honest to God----Something is up with these things????
I will run it probably about 24/7 till end of March/early April
That fuel guy came today(suppose to have been middle of week)but he said my driveway is a bit## and wanted it done.
Before he came(I measured my tank)23.75" ----Means tank is half full.
Moved back here Jan 7(furnace was off till then only using one single Pelonis(set at 55)
I measured the tank when I got here(7.5")had 50 gallons in it.Turned on Furnace.(I ordered 300 gals which was delivered 3 week of Jan.(that's it)
beginning of Feb bought Eden Pure and ran it all winter(though did have to switch to the gen III 1000 one.
When they filled it,it took 235,1 gallons to fill.So I used 115 gallons of oil. last year.(from Jan 7 to May 7)
It's crazy but it really works! Sure, $90 sounds like a lot for added electricity cost(but that buys less than 25 gals of oil)for a whole month of extremely cold weather

Probably won't even use 200 gals of oil this year(almost December haven't even flipped the Furnace Breaker yet)
And the biggest thing--------------we stay warm,not freeze.
Granted the house is very efficient.

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:56 pm

Catshooter wrote:madman,

You're far more edjamakated than me, I'm just a dumb wireman. You're the dude with the EE BSS. So I would ask you right back, how's that work?????

If you input 1500 watts, how do you get more watts out? You can't even get the full 1500 out, you know that, nothing is 100%. Burying the element in stuff is a gimmick. A 1500 watt nicad wire is a 1500 watt wire, end of story. The wire couldn't care less if it's bent, straight or wound into a curly-que. Power goes in, resistence increases, heat comes off.

Wait, does the EdenPure have it's own half-wave reduced voltage nuclear phase seperator? I failed to think of that, that must be it!

Cat
Never even seen an EdenPure so I can't comment.

Older electric heaters rated at 1500 watts can not run at 1500 watts due to inrush amps, they start at 1500 but on High they are only at 800 to 900 watts. EdenPure uses a system such as a start capacitor so they can run at 1200 to 1300 watts on High. Also using oil or "other stuff" as you call it saves alot of energy, just turn your elec. quartz heater on for 20 min. and turn it off for 10 mins. Then turn on a oil bath heater for 20 min. and turn it off for 10 min. then see which one is still warm.
Harry

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:01 pm

harry wrote:
Catshooter wrote:madman,

You're far more edjamakated than me, I'm just a dumb wireman. You're the dude with the EE BSS. So I would ask you right back, how's that work?????

If you input 1500 watts, how do you get more watts out? You can't even get the full 1500 out, you know that, nothing is 100%. Burying the element in stuff is a gimmick. A 1500 watt nicad wire is a 1500 watt wire, end of story. The wire couldn't care less if it's bent, straight or wound into a curly-que. Power goes in, resistence increases, heat comes off.

Wait, does the EdenPure have it's own half-wave reduced voltage nuclear phase seperator? I failed to think of that, that must be it!

Cat
Never even seen an EdenPure so I can't comment.
Older electric heaters rated at 1500 watts can not run at 1500 watts due to inrush amps, they start at 1500 but on High they are only at 800 to 900 watts. EdenPure uses a system such as a start capacitor so they can run at 1200 to 1300 watts on High. Also using oil or "other stuff" as you call it saves alot of energy, just turn your elec. quartz heater on for 20 min. and turn it off for 10 mins. Then turn on a oil bath heater for 20 min. and turn it off for 10 min. then see which one is still warm.
Harry

Ok Harry------------makes sense now!

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:59 pm

Well, what Harry wrote would make sense if it was accurate.

A nicad heating element is a resistive load, correct? Resistive loads have no appreiciable inrush. You are thinking of inductive loads, there inrush can be four to eight times full load current.

So no, the 'older' heaters rated at 1500 watts (if they're honest) are 1500. Sorry. Start capacitor? Show me one in a resistive circuit.

Also, how does heating up some oil or ceramics 'save' energy? The oil/ceramics will store calories, yes, some. So? You paid to put those calories into the oil/ceramics, didn't you? It's not free energy. In fact instead of heating the room you've heated the heater. I guess you could call this saving energy. The same way a rechargeable battery 'saves' energy, banking it up. But there is no 'energy saving' as in energy not being used/consumed. No such thing as a free lunch boys.

madman,

Just because you can 'feel' more heat from the Eden doesn't mean it's putting out more than any other 1500 watt heater. It can't. I beleive you in that you can feel the heat better.

Now as to how the Eden Pure does such a better job than your old space heater? All things being equal, it doesn't. So something isn't equal. The old heater wasn't putting out 1500, you forgot you insulated the attic this last summer, little madman isn't leaving his bedroom window open anymore. Something like that. Things that are impossible are just that, impossible.

I do so love eating EEs for lunch. Sorry, did I say that out loud?

Cat

harry · Post by **harry** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:14 pm

Anyone with an amp meter can prove your wrong catsneez, just put a amp meter on and switch on an old heater.
I've installed miles of heat trace, same thing.
Harry

PS look at your PC board, bet there is 1000 caps on it.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:16 pm

Catshooter wrote:Well, what Harry wrote would make sense if it was accurate.

A nicad heating element is a resistive load, correct? Resistive loads have no appreiciable inrush. You are thinking of inductive loads, there inrush can be four to eight times full load current.

So no, the 'older' heaters rated at 1500 watts (if they're honest) are 1500. Sorry. Start capacitor? Show me one in a resistive circuit.

Also, how does heating up some oil or ceramics 'save' energy? The oil/ceramics will store calories, yes, some. So? You paid to put those calories into the oil/ceramics, didn't you? It's not free energy. In fact instead of heating the room you've heated the heater. I guess you could call this saving energy. The same way a rechargeable battery 'saves' energy, banking it up. But there is no 'energy saving' as in energy not being used/consumed. No such thing as a free lunch boys.

madman,

Just because you can 'feel' more heat from the Eden doesn't mean it's putting out more than any other 1500 watt heater. It can't. I beleive you in that you can feel the heat better.

Now as to how the Eden Pure does such a better job than your old space heater? All things being equal, it doesn't. So something isn't equal. The old heater wasn't putting out 1500, you forgot you insulated the attic this last summer, little madman isn't leaving his bedroom window open anymore. Something like that. Things that are impossible are just that, impossible.

I do so love eating EEs for lunch. Sorry, did I say that out loud?

Cat

This master electrician agrees with all of this. But even if the inrush part was true it doesn't effect the amount of electricity used. What you are saying is that old heaters don't draw 1500 amps and if true, they won't use as much electricity as true 1500 watt heater. It pretty simple Ohm's law. Personally I've never witnessed inrush on a resistive load.

LK

harry · Post by **harry** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:13 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:
Catshooter wrote:Well, what Harry wrote would make sense if it was accurate.

A nicad heating element is a resistive load, correct? Resistive loads have no appreiciable inrush. You are thinking of inductive loads, there inrush can be four to eight times full load current.

So no, the 'older' heaters rated at 1500 watts (if they're honest) are 1500. Sorry. Start capacitor? Show me one in a resistive circuit.

Also, how does heating up some oil or ceramics 'save' energy? The oil/ceramics will store calories, yes, some. So? You paid to put those calories into the oil/ceramics, didn't you? It's not free energy. In fact instead of heating the room you've heated the heater. I guess you could call this saving energy. The same way a rechargeable battery 'saves' energy, banking it up. But there is no 'energy saving' as in energy not being used/consumed. No such thing as a free lunch boys.

madman,

Just because you can 'feel' more heat from the Eden doesn't mean it's putting out more than any other 1500 watt heater. It can't. I beleive you in that you can feel the heat better.

Now as to how the Eden Pure does such a better job than your old space heater? All things being equal, it doesn't. So something isn't equal. The old heater wasn't putting out 1500, you forgot you insulated the attic this last summer, little madman isn't leaving his bedroom window open anymore. Something like that. Things that are impossible are just that, impossible.

I do so love eating EEs for lunch. Sorry, did I say that out loud?

Cat
This master electrician agrees with all of this. But even if the inrush part was true it doesn't effect the amount of electricity used. What you are saying is that old heaters don't draw 1500 amps and if true, they won't use as much electricity as true 1500 watt heater. It pretty simple Ohm's law. Personally I've never witnessed inrush on a resistive load.

LK

I'm sure both of you know that if you cut the power for 1 mili sec. and turn it on for 1 mili sec. that at the end of 24 hrs your heater has only been on for 12 hrs.
Harry

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:40 am

I am still sitting here scratching my ????(well head)
It is 23 degrees and a 20 mph steady west wind snowing like crazy and that Eden Pure is heating this house

(well almost the whole house) (it is keeping it 73 degrees)Except for the basement,well some of the basement cause I leave the basement door open cause the dogs are constantly going up and down there so it is heating like the stair wel section etc.
This morning thought I finally better at least flick the breaker on the box to the furnace to verify everything is working well(yep its fine)

It just blows my mind???

Boy,would I love to tear it apart and really check it out????????
Running it just about 24/7 for November (except couple times turned it off cause the house got too hot)the cost of it for that month appears to be about $74 extra.(not bad cause my house is big)I keep in on manual mode and 3 notches down from highest heat output setting!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:38 pm

madman4570 wrote:I am still sitting here scratching my ????(well head)
It is 23 degrees and a 20 mph steady west wind snowing like crazy and that Eden Pure is heating this house (well almost the whole house) (it is keeping it 73 degrees)Except for the basement,well some of the basement cause I leave the basement door open cause the dogs are constantly going up and down there so it is heating like the stair wel section etc.
This morning thought I finally better at least flick the breaker on the box to the furnace to verify everything is working well(yep its fine)

It just blows my mind???

Boy,would I love to tear it apart and really check it out????????
Running it just about 24/7 for November (except couple times turned it off cause the house got too hot)the cost of it for that month appears to be about $74 extra.(not bad cause my house is big)I keep in on manual mode and 3 notches down from highest heat output setting!

MadMan, is there a 700 or so watt setting on those? I have three space heaters, but if I put them on 1500, the plugs too warm for my taste, so I keep them on low. These keep my 1600sf older double wide (well insulated, tho) liveable, if not warm, and it's only about another 120 bucks every two months. That Eden Pure might be an idea, tho, as these heaters I have are getting a bit old. At most, these are fifty buck heaters. I could EASILY spend twice that or more on propane

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:07 pm

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:52 pm

BlaineG wrote:
madman4570 wrote:I am still sitting here scratching my ????(well head)
It is 23 degrees and a 20 mph steady west wind snowing like crazy and that Eden Pure is heating this house (well almost the whole house) (it is keeping it 73 degrees)Except for the basement,well some of the basement cause I leave the basement door open cause the dogs are constantly going up and down there so it is heating like the stair wel section etc.
This morning thought I finally better at least flick the breaker on the box to the furnace to verify everything is working well(yep its fine)

It just blows my mind???

Boy,would I love to tear it apart and really check it out????????
Running it just about 24/7 for November (except couple times turned it off cause the house got too hot)the cost of it for that month appears to be about $74 extra.(not bad cause my house is big)I keep in on manual mode and 3 notches down from highest heat output setting!
MadMan, is there a 700 or so watt setting on those? I have three space heaters, but if I put them on 1500, the plugs too warm for my taste, so I keep them on low. These keep my 1600sf older double wide (well insulated, tho) liveable, if not warm, and it's only about another 120 bucks every two months. That Eden Pure might be an idea, tho, as these heaters I have are getting a bit old. At most, these are fifty buck heaters. I could EASILY spend twice that or more on propane

No,
There is a 1500 watt unit(like the Gen 3 1000)or the 750 watt model.
What the larger one does(the one like above unit I would/did get)
They come with a remote and you can either set to high or manual mode.
There is like 12 illuminated indicator bars that you can remotely set to what temp you want and the unit will cycle to what you want.
The unit will cycle by shutting down like 2 of the 6 quartz infrared tubes then when the room temp starts to drop the 2 tubes will turn back on.
I leave mine set to manual mode(3 bars down from high)
All I can say is this sucker throws very warm air even 6ft out?????
I know what people say(same as I thought)until at my aunts I said (boy,that looks like a fancy type heater)she said it heats her small cape cod house about entirely.I said (it is very quiet)couldn't hear nothing then bent down and put my hand about 3 ft out from it's front(wham,I said "holy cow,that thing is putting out some serious heat??) What's this thing draw electric wise)then looked at the back(1500 watts)
Her's is the Gen 3 1000 but when I went to look at them they came out with the American made Gen 4 1000
Mistake,the tubes are different in those (3 Sylvania tubes instead of 6 tubes on the Gen 3 1000)
After about 3 weeks it quit blowing heat(also it didn't seem to heat like the aunt's)
So I switched and got the Jap made Gen 3 1000
We love this thing.(it defies logic how it heats)
They have a 3 year warranty(think the American had a 5 year but don't care,didn't heat as good)

All I know-------mine it works/feels like my furnace is running and throwing heat out of the 8"X11" register from our dining room.????

Oh, The cord/plug on these is super heavy(mine don't get hot)
The others little ceramic ones kinda did/especially a oil filled electric radiator I tried(pelosi canned it)because that plug got HOT????

Whatever you get good luck!
Ask some dealer that sells them if you could try a demo model for a weekend?????
OR----------
Look what the time limit for full money back return from wherever you buy it from(recommend a dealer fairly close to where you live) ---------------------if she don;t cut the mustard(take her back/money back)

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:00 pm

Got my paperwork!
First 60 days (return full money back)
After that till 6 months (new unit given to buyer)
From 6 months till 3 years then a Company refurbished unit will be given to buyer.

Place I bought mine they are smart enough to have some of these Company refurbs on hand so that you walk in with one/walk out with one(that day)They did say(American gen4 ones some have came back for bad circuit boards,but the Jap gen3 ones,think all all they sold only a couple after couple years needed fan replaced???
Heating quartz infrared bulbs have life span rating of 20,000 hrs.
Paid $259+tax for mine!

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:22 pm

I may be a little late to the party but it is a crying shame how people get scammed
by fancy electric heaters. LEt me ask everyone to think about hairdryers that
the women like, they are also limited to the same watts as heaters. They also
are heaters and also blowers and the fan motor does use up some watts
that could be used to make the heating elements glow red. Point being, if
you run a hair dryer in the bathroom or any other room that is 1500 watts,
the room will heat up just as fast. Here is the real difference in most of the
heaters. Some purely use infrared heat and can seem to be putting out more
heat while others have a fan to blow air past the heating elements. Many of
these blow so much air that the air comming out is no hotter than 95 degrees
and thus these are considered much safer from a fire standpoint for obvious
reasons. So at the extreme some blow air warmed up by the heating elements
and some simply glow hot. There can be a big difference in perception
but they both heat a room up the same. Seems strange though because
with one of them you cold roast marshmallows. What I like to play with
is an industrial heat gun used to burn off paint or other coatins and it is just
like a hair dryer on steroids but there again, even with air temps of 1200 degrees,
the pistol shaped heat gun is limited to 1500 watts. If it had decent longivity,
you could use the heat gun regularly as a heater to heat up your house.
Dont forget electric stoves and ovens.. Their heat radiates into the room
at 100 percent efficiency as there is no where else for the heat to go.
They should put the EDENPURE TV hucksters in jail for false advertising.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:54 pm

preventec47 wrote:I may be a little late to the party but it is a crying shame how people get scammed
by fancy electric heaters. LEt me ask everyone to think about hairdryers that
the women like, they are also limited to the same watts as heaters. They also
are heaters and also blowers and the fan motor does use up some watts
that could be used to make the heating elements glow red. Point being, if
you run a hair dryer in the bathroom or any other room that is 1500 watts,
the room will heat up just as fast. Here is the real difference in most of the
heaters. Some purely use infrared heat and can seem to be putting out more
heat while others have a fan to blow air past the heating elements. Many of
these blow so much air that the air comming out is no hotter than 95 degrees
and thus these are considered much safer from a fire standpoint for obvious
reasons. So at the extreme some blow air warmed up by the heating elements
and some simply glow hot. There can be a big difference in perception
but they both heat a room up the same. Seems strange though because
with one of them you cold roast marshmallows. What I like to play with
is an industrial heat gun used to burn off paint or other coatins and it is just
like a hair dryer on steroids but there again, even with air temps of 1200 degrees,
the pistol shaped heat gun is limited to 1500 watts. If it had decent longivity,
you could use the heat gun regularly as a heater to heat up your house.
Dont forget electric stoves and ovens.. Their heat radiates into the room
at 100 percent efficiency as there is no where else for the heat to go.
They should put the EDENPURE TV hucksters in jail for false advertising.

I have absolutely no stake in whether one single person on here buys an Eden Pure.
All I can say is prior to getting the Eden Pure we had/have 3 small cube style heaters all quite new and clean(nothing plugged like lint etc. in the air inlet.(1 is a Pelonis Digital heater, 1 is a Del-Rain ceramic disc furnace, 1 is a Pelonis ceramic disc furnace)

I can say without any bull#### the Eden Pure heats our home better.
Could the 1-2 year other heater/furnace units all be bad(I really doubt it)but hey????????????????

It's right now 19 degrees out and with this Eden Pure our furnace kicks on about once(2 mins burner/and with burner off blower continues to run another 4 mins)) like this every hour at this temp/wind speed(though wind given how this house is built isn't much of an issue )

Could the unit being infrared make you only feel warmer air coming out of the unit???
Well,being that the bulbs are fully encased and not making any contact with what you are feeling with you got me.
Now,I suppose that it is also impossible that the Eden Pure has a much better/heavier duty air fan(it does) sending out the very warm air(it does)
Yes,putting your hand under a red infrared heat lamp(like to keep your chickens warms appears to feel warmer than a standard lamp,but again there is no exposure via those bulbs to the outside of unit.
All I can say is shut off the Eden Pure(turn any of the other three on instead)and here goes the furnace to start working harder.

Use whatever and freeze!

I thought the same thing you thought until I saw one in action.
Does anyone on here have/had one(gen 3 1000)that you feel ain't cutting the mustard better than the little cube 1500watt guys?

Honesty I only mentioned it because of my experience how it works(could care a rats behind if anyone gets one or not)

To me this unit feels like if I had all 3 of my single 500watt quartz stand studio lights all on at the same time(the heat they throw)with a super quiet "high powered large fan" throwing the heat)except nothing at least on the outside gets hot)the fan is whisper quiet and the 6 quartz bulbs are rated for 20,000 hrs burn time.

So,guess if someone could take (6)250 watt quartz infrared lamps make some special heat absorbing heat exchanger and add a super powerful fan that made no noise and the unit didn't get hot/pose a fire hazard/made no noise and lasted about 3 years worth of running it 24/7 all 3 winters(5 months each worth)that's about what you would have.Oh ya add a remote/2 modes/and a super HD plug unlike the cheap cube heaters that your afraid to leave on while going to bed cause might burn down the house.
Make one!

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:51 pm

I'm glad you like your heater. I really am. But after much soul searching, research and talking with people smarter than this plain Ol' master electrician the consensus is there are some things that can't be argued and one of them is you ain't gonna get nothing for free. It's 100% impossible to get more heat per watt. It's all based off Ohm's law and 1000 watts roughly equals 3400 BTU's. There is no magic filament that converts electricity to heat better, no magic circuit board, no amount of oil, fan forced or not, IR vs. standard heating, etc. The only way to get more heat out of electricity is to use more.

If you look closely at the adds for the Eden Pure you will see nowhere do they claim to be cheaper than other electric heaters. They walk a very fine line but they only claim to be economical and efficient. Because if they did claim they are cheaper to run they would be making a big old false statement and they dang well know it. You see, being more economical is a relative term. In some area's of the country, fuel oil, LP, natural gas is substantially more than other parts of the country. On the flip side, in some areas of the country electricity is cheaper than other parts of the country. Go back to pp1 and you'll see good examples of this. Blaine pays over $5/gal and I pay $1.85 for LP. I don't know why his cost are so much higher. It could be taxes, shipping, labor, etc but it's kinda irrelevant. Only thing that counts is he pays 2.7 times what I pay. If I had his cost around here electric heating may be more cost effective than LP thus the claim of them being economical. The only way to know is to crunch the numbers. Also, all electric heaters are as close to 100% efficient as you can get. Everything goes into the room, nothing out the chimney. Are they 100% efficient? No, nothing is. But efficiency doesn't = cheaper and they never claim that it is.

On to the original topic...... I've decided against the wood heat for now and it's 100% because of space constraints. I have roughly 168 sq ft. and the odd shape of the space (7' x 24') would make it so I lose up to 20% if I go wood heat. To keep with my theme I'll probably go with one of the 1500 watt electric fireplaces. Perfect? No. Cheapest? No. But it's the way it is.

LK

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:02 pm

If you want to go with an in the wall 220 volt heater
with blower and thermostat, Northern Tool has the
best deal with a brand called "Farenheit"

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:40 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:I'm glad you like your heater. I really am. But after much soul searching, research and talking with people smarter than this plain Ol' master electrician the consensus is there are some things that can't be argued and one of them is you ain't gonna get nothing for free. It's 100% impossible to get more heat per watt. It's all based off Ohm's law and 1000 watts roughly equals 3400 BTU's. There is no magic filament that converts electricity to heat better, no magic circuit board, no amount of oil, fan forced or not, IR vs. standard heating, etc. The only way to get more heat out of electricity is to use more.

If you look closely at the adds for the Eden Pure you will see nowhere do they claim to be cheaper than other electric heaters. They walk a very fine line but they only claim to be economical and efficient. Because if they did claim they are cheaper to run they would be making a big old false statement and they dang well know it. You see, being more economical is a relative term. In some area's of the country, fuel oil, LP, natural gas is substantially more than other parts of the country. On the flip side, in some areas of the country electricity is cheaper than other parts of the country. Go back to pp1 and you'll see good examples of this. Blaine pays over $5/gal and I pay $1.85 for LP. I don't know why his cost are so much higher. It could be taxes, shipping, labor, etc but it's kinda irrelevant. Only thing that counts is he pays 2.7 times what I pay. If I had his cost around here electric heating may be more cost effective than LP thus the claim of them being economical. The only way to know is to crunch the numbers. Also, all electric heaters are as close to 100% efficient as you can get. Everything goes into the room, nothing out the chimney. Are they 100% efficient? No, nothing is. But efficiency doesn't = cheaper and they never claim that it is.

On to the original topic...... I've decided against the wood heat for now and it's 100% because of space constraints. I have roughly 168 sq ft. and the odd shape of the space (7' x 24') would make it so I lose up to 20% if I go wood heat. To keep with my theme I'll probably go with one of the 1500 watt electric fireplaces. Perfect? No. Cheapest? No. But it's the way it is.

LK

Good Luck---LK

I know it don't make sense how this is working for me----------maybe all my others are just not up to their potential.
See ya!

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:13 pm

Do me a favor, just string fifteen light bulb sockets and plug
screw in fifteen 100 watt incadescent light bulbs.

Really I think that will be the cheapest and easiest solution.
This way you get lots of light too !

BTW anyone ever plug in one of those 1000 watt halogen
work lights ? That would work too !

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:52 am

preventec47 wrote:Do me a favor, just string fifteen light bulb sockets and plug
screw in fifteen 100 watt incadescent light bulbs.

Really I think that will be the cheapest and easiest solution.
This way you get lots of light too !

BTW anyone ever plug in one of those 1000 watt halogen
work lights ? That would work too !

Actually preventec you're pretty darn close and those would put off the same heat as a 1000 watt heater. As a matter of fact I'm going to build a shallow insulated closet to store reloading supplies, ammo, possibly some guns and maybe the PC and I will be heating this seperatly with a light bulb since I'm I'm gonna keep the man cave at 40-50 degrees when not in use. Many of water pump sheds here in Iowa have been heated this way for many decades. But for those interested we have a couple guidelines we use for calculating the required electric heat. A good number to start with is 10 watts per square foot. Obviously it depends on shape, insulation, out side conditions, temp in surrounding rooms, etc. A detached 2 car garage that has 528 sq/ft should require more heat than a basement space the same size. So if we look at my 168sq/ft man cave I should need 1680 watts of heat. Cold Iowa air completely surrounding the unit is a negative but low ceilings, added insulation and plexiglass over all the windows will help. Still one 1500 watt heater might not be large enough. Preventec's 1000 watts would not be enough but his 4000 watt heater would be over kill. So if you're doing an insulated free standing building I would treat the 10 watts per as minimum and wouldn't be afraid to go as much as 15 watts per but if you're talking an interior room of your house the 10 watts per should do nicely.

LK

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:10 am

preventec47 wrote:Do me a favor, just string fifteen light bulb sockets and plug
screw in fifteen 100 watt incadescent light bulbs.

Really I think that will be the cheapest and easiest solution.
This way you get lots of light too !

BTW anyone ever plug in one of those 1000 watt halogen
work lights ? That would work too !

Those 1000 watt work lights put out some serious heat.(they are dangerous as all get out to run very long though)
Now the 15---- 100 watt light bulbs strung up don't think that would look and work to well in an actual in home situation?(be kinda like living on the sun?)

This thread was started asking for a possible solution for heating an area.Not to get into some type heated debate so,
am just saying of the heaters we have tried that are of the electric origin based of their results for us (we have found the Eden Pure works the best "for us"
Actually the only one that should be laughing is myself since a little Eden Pure pretty much (with the exception of 200gals fuel oil yearly)heats my large home.

and in a fairly cold region.

Just saying for something that is built with a very HD plug/cord so as not to burn down your house/get so hot to burn the kids/or so loud you and whoever else in the house end up needing earplugs or hearing aids after a single heating season/actually looks good in your home.Only one I will get. ya $260 isn't cheap but for us its a deal.

Guys--------buy/use what ya like!
God Bless!

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:26 am

[quote="madman4570"][quote="preventec47"]Do me a favor, just string fifteen light bulb sockets and plug
screw in fifteen 100 watt incadescent light bulbs.
![/quote]

Assuming your sockets could handle the extra heat, you could
wrap the 100 watt bulbs with aluminum foil if you wanted to block
the light.
Not that this is a really practical approach, but it does illustrate
the usage of watts numbers with electricity and heat equivalents.

If also shows how having a lot of lights can really increase the
heat load to a space. Coincidentally you can also deduce
the efficiency of the various forms of light sources such as
LED and Flourescent bulbs as they usually always post an
incadescent equivalent light output and how many watts
they actually draw. Basically they convert more electricity
to light with much less heat generation.