Marlin Big Bores / GC isssues? / Elk Medicine

[kmittleman]

Hey Guys,


I'm debating on whether on not to get a Marlin 1895 for a potential Elk hunt next year. I have a .308 but am thinking about stepping it up in power bit. I'm trying to decide between a .30-06, .444, and a .45-70. I know the '06 will shoot flatter, but am partial to the 1895's.

What I'm nervous about is the so called GC issues over at Marlin these days. Also, I'm wondering about the recoil of the .444 vs the .45-70. I handload and know that it's all about how hot you load it, but am I right in thinking the .444 will have less recoil on average? I figure I'd need to drive the bullet fast enough to get at least some kind of flat trajectory, but that should equate to more recoil.

Any thoughts?

-Kevin

[earlmck]

When I hunt elk the gun I take depends on the type of country I'm hunting. This year I have a cow tag and am hunting low country where a 150 yard shot would be a long shot. So I'm letting some of the "fun guns" take turns going on the hunt... 35 Remingtons this year, but 444 or 45/70 would be really excellent choices for this terrain. If I were chasing the big bull over in Snake River country where a 300+ yard shot would be common I'd be packing the old '06 with 200 grain bullet, for the combination of power level and trajectory.

[phc45-70]

Go ahead and get a 45-70. If your like a lot of guys I know who really enjoy shooting. You'll go through several smaller calibers until you get to a big bore and the 45-70 is great to load for.

[pdawg.shooter]

My 1985g is one of my go to rifles for anything. I load a 430gr PP bullet to just over 1850fps. Figure that will handle anything I might run up against in western Kansas. LOL

[Idiot]

I've come to find out (thanks Grizz) that the 45/70 in the Marlin 1895 kicks very little - "she's a little pushy, but she ain't mean." I own a 444 Marlin too, and it has a meaner kick to it than the 45/70.

[2X22]

I've kilt quite a few elk with the 45-70 and I've kilt quite a few with the .444 Marlin which I just walked in the door with after chasin' deer all morning!

To me its a push. Either gets the job done, the 444 with a bit less recoil and a little extra range probably. But I love the hammering ability of the 45-70.....

[Blaine]

I would not buy one of the currently made New Marlins....they seem to suck pretty bad from what the majority of the buyers are saying. Find an old one from at least several years ago....YMMV I'm not a very good hunter, but I'll go out with a scoped '06 and a lever of some sort and depending on the range I'm expecting I'll pick one...and anyway, you want an extra along is case one screws up.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes. I agree. Look for a nice used 1895 - and my "vote" is 45-70. It is more versitile and there are more components available than for the 444 Marlin. The 444 is fine caliber and certainly enough gun for elk, but if you want whomp with out as much recoil - similar to the 444, then just choose the 300 grain X Bullet for your 45-70 and load to 2000 fps and be done.

[jkbrea]

I use a 30-06 when I hunt elk where there is a lot of open terrain and shots may be over 200 yards. I mostly hunt in thicker timber where most of my shots have been around 100 yards. I got a Marlin XLR 45-70 that I had converted a little and I absolutely love hunting with it. A good recoil pad all but eliminates the recoil issue. I put a Limbsaver on mine and it works great

[O.S.O.K.]

Here you go jkbrea:



God's country

[O.S.O.K.]

Here's my guide gun - case in point - it's a new one and I had to send it back for fixing - the barrel needed to be replaced because they cut the mounting dovetails crooked... it also arrived with a broken buttstock... It's fine now and I really like it but buying a used one will avoid those hassles...



And here's another idea - you can get these n 30-06 or 405 Winchester like mine

[Sixgun]

45-70 Easy to load for, components in vast quantities and variations, and anyone who weighs more than 100 pounds can shoot it all day long with factory ammo. Recoil should not be an issue with any grown man.

You don't have to load it 2 million feet per second. 1600-1800 will do just fine on elk out to 150 meters with dead on aiming with the ammo grouping about 4" high at 100.

No need for a scope, irons will do just fine. Once you see how the 45 caliber bullet zaps the "I gotta keep on moving" out of an elk, you won't fool with the smaller calibers anymore.

Some guys do not want to put themselves at a disavantage with the short range 45-70 and prefer the 3-400 yard 7 mags, etc., so thats a decision you have to make for yourself. In this day and age, we all can afford to buy meat so I like to put some pizzaz in my hunts. I travel 2000 miles to hunt elk and do not feel disavantaged with a 45-70 and I do it on factory workers paycheck.

I use a 400 grain cast bullet with 40-42 grains of RL-7 and while nothing personal to the many fine boys here who use Marlins, I prefer 1886 Winchesters.-----------Sixgun

Last years elk--my son's using a 1886 and the 400 cast. 125 yards--drt

[jkbrea]

Thanks O.S.O.K. I was trying to post a pic of my rifle and screwed it up. I love that spot. Outside Jackson. Wy. I've actually taken 3-4 elk on that hillside over the years and my brother has taken more. Theres a creek in the bottom. One of my favorite spots.
My first levergun elk was taken right there. 45/70

[Don McDowell]

Hey Guys,


I'm debating on whether on not to get a Marlin 1895 for a potential Elk hunt next year. I have a .308 but am thinking about stepping it up in power bit. I'm trying to decide between a .30-06, .444, and a .45-70. I know the '06 will shoot flatter, but am partial to the 1895's.

What I'm nervous about is the so called GC issues over at Marlin these days. Also, I'm wondering about the recoil of the .444 vs the .45-70. I handload and know that it's all about how hot you load it, but am I right in thinking the .444 will have less recoil on average? I figure I'd need to drive the bullet fast enough to get at least some kind of flat trajectory, but that should equate to more recoil.

Any thoughts?

-Kevin

As much as I like the 45-70 and have been impressed with the way heavy bullets (heavier than what a Marlin will easily digest) I would advise you to bring either your 30-06 or your 308, either of which is more capabable of killing elk over a variety of distances and terrain than the 45-70.
You're going to have a considerable sum tied up in just the license,never mind the travel expense to get here.
The last thing you want to have to do is go home empty handed because the rifle you brought had to much wind drift and drop to overcome the 1 shot you had a 238 yds across a clearing with a quartering 10mph breeze.

[BigSky56]

+1 on the 308 There isnt a elk out there you cant kill with it whether you are hunting dark timber or open country ,I've dumped them with a 300 sav and a 30-30. What Ive found over the years its shot placement not caliber. danny

[86er]

I've shot a lot of elk and elk sized critters with a 45-70 but I am more or less limited to 200 yards even with a 405gr @ 2000 fps or the 350 @ 2170 fps. I do not want to guess at the trajectory nor do I want to bet on the wind. With a 3" high at 100 yds impact I am dead on around 174 yds and just a shade low at 200 yds. After that I have to start calculating and I just don't want to do that on a rapidly evolving dynamic hunt that may cost a bunch of money. If it were a close to home local game hunt and I was sitting and waiting I might try to calculate but only under those ideal circumstances. The 308 will stretch your usable trajectory without hold over calculation by nearly 100 yards. A 3" high impact at 100 yards (depending on bullet weight) will put you dead on around 250 yds and within 10" drop at 300 yds, where your hold can at least still be on the animal). I don't think the '06 buys you that much range or power. The 2-300 fps doesnt equate to a whole lot of real-world effect until you've surpassed 300 yds. I would assess your circumstances and motivation. If you are intent on calling one in or are in black timber with a sure bet of 150 yds or less the 45-70 would meet your needs as would the 30 cals. If you are going to take any reasonable shot within your ability and the known trajectory, have a lot of money or personal investment in the hunt and/or just must have an elk if given the opportunity, your needs will be more readily satisfied with the 308 or 30-06. Are you hunting the bugle season or the late migration? The difference in average range between the early and late seasons in most area can easily be 200 yds. Are you in high country or the eastern plains? Most high country elk are taken within 200 yds where eastern plains yields a lot of 300+ yard sighting for those in a good area who are willing to take that shot. Once you really pin down your circumstances and honestly determine your motivations your question just about answers itself. The 444 is kind of a middle man in this case and does nothing you can not achieve another way. If you just always wanted to take an elk with a 444 and you can realistically get it done where you're going, why not? The answer to recoil with the 45-70 is the load, a good recoil pad and overall gun weight. You can always practice with standard loads, sight in the full power load over a few rounds and shoot that full power load on your hunt. Good Luck!

[kmittleman]

I've shot a lot of elk and elk sized critters with a 45-70 but I am more or less limited to 200 yards even with a 405gr @ 2000 fps or the 350 @ 2170 fps. I do not want to guess at the trajectory nor do I want to bet on the wind. With a 3" high at 100 yds impact I am dead on around 174 yds and just a shade low at 200 yds. After that I have to start calculating and I just don't want to do that on a rapidly evolving dynamic hunt that may cost a bunch of money. If it were a close to home local game hunt and I was sitting and waiting I might try to calculate but only under those ideal circumstances. The 308 will stretch your usable trajectory without hold over calculation by nearly 100 yards. A 3" high impact at 100 yards (depending on bullet weight) will put you dead on around 250 yds and within 10" drop at 300 yds, where your hold can at least still be on the animal). I don't think the '06 buys you that much range or power. The 2-300 fps doesnt equate to a whole lot of real-world effect until you've surpassed 300 yds. I would assess your circumstances and motivation. If you are intent on calling one in or are in black timber with a sure bet of 150 yds or less the 45-70 would meet your needs as would the 30 cals. If you are going to take any reasonable shot within your ability and the known trajectory, have a lot of money or personal investment in the hunt and/or just must have an elk if given the opportunity, your needs will be more readily satisfied with the 308 or 30-06. Are you hunting the bugle season or the late migration? The difference in average range between the early and late seasons in most area can easily be 200 yds. Are you in high country or the eastern plains? Most high country elk are taken within 200 yds where eastern plains yields a lot of 300+ yard sighting for those in a good area who are willing to take that shot. Once you really pin down your circumstances and honestly determine your motivations your question just about answers itself. The 444 is kind of a middle man in this case and does nothing you can not achieve another way. If you just always wanted to take an elk with a 444 and you can realistically get it done where you're going, why not? The answer to recoil with the 45-70 is the load, a good recoil pad and overall gun weight. You can always practice with standard loads, sight in the full power load over a few rounds and shoot that full power load on your hunt. Good Luck!

Thanks for the info! Well, I do know we'll be in Colorado near Salida. The .308 load I have worked up is a 165gr Accubond and I think it's going about 2500fps (40gr of Rel 15 out of a Remington 700 w/ a heavy 26" barrel). Haven't chrony'd it yet though. My plan is to shoot a cow if possible but I hear sometimes bull tags are easier to come by(?). I've only hunted deer and boar, so I don't really understand what I'm dealing with.

-Kevin

[86er]

FWIW - I've shot the 308 with 165gr Nosler Partitions at 2550 fps extensively. It is the best load out of my rifle. It has taken waterbuck, gemsbok, zebra and eland out to 200 yards (no further opportunities were presented so I do not know the effectiveness further out, but I'd use it further). These animals are all around the size of a cow rocky mt. elk (500 pounds) with eland being 1600 pounds. In my experience, the Accubonds penetrate and expand similar to Partitions in 284 and 308 diameter, althought the Partition loses the front and generally causes a greater wound channel. I think your current 308 is perfectly adequate for a CO cow elk hunt. (If you are hunting the eastern plains region the bull and cow tags are OTC and good until Jan 21st). I'd recommend shooting through the lungs as you are likely to get an exit which will give more sign in the event of tracking. They cant go too far if they cant breathe. Best of Luck!

[86er]

oops - double tapped....

[Don McDowell]

I load the hornady 165 gr bt interloc for my wifes blr in 308, 45.2 grs of 748 gives that just a tad over 2700 fps, and it kills elk quite dead. Furthest she's shot is 250 yds.