loading a winchester .33 using 45-70 cases

[mtnhomemgr]

.33 WCF. I was browsing this sight last night looking for information for the loading of .33 WCF and using 45-70 cases. I saw a post from 2008 from someone named tdoor and he seemed to be doing what I'm looking for. I have made up a couple of .33 loads and they fit into the chamber but the bolt will not close completely and it's tought to get it back open. This is on a winchester 1886 .33 WCF. If anyone has good information on this kind of loading please advise. I have the correct lenght and other dimentions but something still is not right. I have looked at the Chuck Hawks sight but is has not the information I'm looking for. Thanks.

[Terry Murbach]

IF THE BOLT DOES NOT CLOSE HOW CAN THE CARTRIDGES BE FITTING THE CHAMBER ??
DOES THE BOLT CLOSE ON A NEWLY FORMED BUT UNLOADED CASE ??
WHAT IS THE NECK THICKNESS OF THE FORMED CASES ??
WHAT IS THE OD ON THE FORMED NECK ??
WHAT IS THE OD ON THE NECK WITH A BULLET SEATED IN THE CORRECT PLACE ??
WHAT IS THE DIAMETER OF THE "NECK" IN THE CHAMBER ??

OR, ARE THE CASES TOO BIG ON THE BACK END ABOVE THE RIM ??

W-W CASES [ NEW UNFIRED BRASS..] ARE THE PREFERED ONES FOR SUCH FORMING TO OTHER CARTRIDGES.
STARLINE IS THE LEAST PREFERRED.

[pwl44m]

Welcome mtnhomemgr,U will find the info U need here, just be patient. There r some 33wcf shooters on here that can prolly help.
Grab a cup-o-jo & w8t

[2ndovc]

It sounds like your cases haven't been formed quite right.

I have not done it myself. A friend did my brass for me and as Mr. M. said the Starline ( which is what i gave my friend) was
tougher than it had to be.

Also, what kinda load are you looking for? Cast, jacketed? Hunting , plinking? Lots of variables.

I love my '86/ .33 WCF!


jb

[33wcfshooter]

I've had the same problem and it all comes down to the dies mine wouldn't size the case just the last little bit. Just before I gave up on this a friend said to try the hornady 33 size die (after using the RCBS 45-70 to 33 WCF form set and trimming) and that did the trick I guess the hornady dies are a little tighter then some of the others on the market.

[Mike D.]

In my experience just about any dies are superior to RCBS. Lee and Lyman also work much better at completely forming the case and size to the rim. I have been loading the .33 Winchester for many years and seldom use the RCBS die set. Many reloaders believe in RCBS, but recent negative experiences with them have turned me away. Just my opinion and worth zero beyond that.

[earlmck]

You're going to have to give us a little more info, mtnhomemgr. Terry Murbach is asking all the right questions-- answer those and we can help you out.

If the sized case chambers easy but the loaded round doesn't, probably too thick in the neck for the bullet being loaded.

But if the sized case won't chamber then the size die isn't taking it down quite far enough. Like 33wcfshooter says, another die would probably get the job done. Being a cheapskate, instead of buying another die I'd probably just grind a couple thousandths off the bottom of the size die (or more likely off the top of my shell holder and then mark it red with a Sharpie marker) so I could run the case just a skosh farther in the die. Yeah, look around my loading bench and you'd find a couple of Sharpie-marked shell holders from situations such as this.

Anyway, you'll have to supply us more info, or tell us how you fixed it, now you got us curious.

[6pt-sika]

FWIW , I was loading for the 33 WCF , 38-56 WCF , 40-65 WCF and 45-70 all at the same time .
While they all can be formed from 45-70 brass I don't really want 4 different cartridges with the same headstamped brass !

So I got 33 WCF and 38-56 WCF brass from Quality Cartridge .And they both worked rather well right out the box !

For the 40-65 WCF I purchased some Starline brass .

After that I had correctly headstamped brass for all four cartridges and none of the usual BS one has to deal with when "making something work" .

[6pt-sika]

In my experience just about any dies are superior to RCBS. Lee and Lyman also work much better at completely forming the case and size to the rim. I have been loading the .33 Winchester for many years and seldom use the RCBS die set. Many reloaders believe in RCBS, but recent negative experiences with them have turned me away. Just my opinion and worth zero beyond that.

I'm okay with RCBS but I prefer Redding over them and if it's an oddball cartridge I'll go to CH4D before I have the RCBS custom shop make them , but thats more an economic thing as CH4D is usually a bit more conservatively priced .

Lee dies I don't much care for or the new Hornady for that matter . However the old Pacific dies are alright if they were taken care of and the same can be said for the old Herters dies . I suspect the majority of my 40-50 sets of dies are RCBS , but Redding seems to be catching up here in the last couple years !

[Don McDowell]

Take a look here http://www.jamisoninternational.com/pro ... i33wcf.htm It might be your quickest brass fix.

[Dave James]

Have all ways used the Lee dies, formed all mine from 45-70 started off with 40-65/38-56 then to 33 have never lost any brass yet, had to trim a tad, but then used a light load of 5744 some wading and corn meal and a waz plug and its worked fine

[KirkD]

Take a look here http://www.jamisoninternational.com/pro ... i33wcf.htm It might be your quickest brass fix.

+1. I recently obtained some 38-72 brass from Jamison and was impressed. If their 33 WCF brass is as good as their 38-72 brass, it is worth $27.40 for 20 cases. Could save you a lot of grief.

[Sixgun]

This is why some companies make special reforming dies. These dies will squeeze down the brass, especially the area just ahead of the rim, in order for them to chamber. I reload for some 60 calibers and some are troublesome--most are not. 33 WCF, 40-65 WCF, 40-82 WCF and the 219 Zipper can be buggers to work with. With some rifles, you can resize the parent case with no issues-in others, it usually the webb area that needs to be sized down and standard reloading dies just don't cut the mustard.

I know this sucks but sometimes you have to spend the $200+ for the forming dies, especially if you have a tight chamber---big deal---we think nothing of spending 2 g's for a rifle but quiver at the $200 cost of a set of dies.

Like Terry says, stay away from Starline--while great brass, they are thick, but tough to reform. I reformed the brass for 2ndovc (Jason) and IIRC, they were Starline and were troublesome to work with. I most always use W-W.

If you want to see where they are binding at just coat a case with a magic marker and chamber it---------Sixgun

[Don McDowell]

BACO also carries most all of Jamisons brass, and at a wee bit lower price than from Jamisons direct. They also offer a lot of 50 ct.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx? ... 3&CAT=3841

[6pt-sika]

I know this sucks but sometimes you have to spend the $200+ for the forming dies, especially if you have a tight chamber---big deal---we think nothing of spending 2 g's for a rifle but quiver at the $200 cost of a set of dies.

That right there is reason enough for me to buy the correct headstamped and formed brass from Quality Cartridge or Jamisons . For me atleast in a 33 WCF , 38-56 or 40-82 even all I would normally need is 40 pieces . I think the Quality Cartridge brass I bought was maybe $30 @ 20 pieces . So you figure $60 for two boxes and I've got all I would personally need .

[Sixgun]

I know this sucks but sometimes you have to spend the $200+ for the forming dies, especially if you have a tight chamber---big deal---we think nothing of spending 2 g's for a rifle but quiver at the $200 cost of a set of dies.

That right there is reason enough for me to buy the correct headstamped and formed brass from Quality Cartridge or Jamisons . For me atleast in a 33 WCF , 38-56 or 40-82 even all I would normally need is 40 pieces . I think the Quality Cartridge brass I bought was maybe $30 @ 20 pieces . So you figure $60 for two boxes and I've got all I would personally need .

For 99% of us, you are right as most guys only shoot a box or two a year. Buying the correct headstamped (and guaranteed ) brass makes sense. Some sick individuals (like me) do what they can to wear out a 100 year old classic so we need those forming dies ---------------Sixgun

[earlmck]

OK mtnhomemgr, don't listen to those fellers advising you to spend money. At least lets figure out if you really need to do it. We surely should be able to make 33wcf out of 45/70 without any expensive "forming dies".

So let's get a little more info out of you and figure this thing out. First off, does a freshly formed but not yet loaded empty case go in easy? If not, trim the neck to a bit under "trim-to" length and try again and then get back to us with the observations.