OT: A question about Theodore Roosevelt

[mklwhite]

A question came up the other day and I have not been able to find a definitive answer. Did TR carry a sword during the Spanish American War and if so what model was it?
I know this will be easy for some of our historian and or trivia folks on here but I've been chasing my tail without success on this one.
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[Hobie]

The only IMAGE I can find of him with sword in hand is a fanciful charge of the Rough Riders all mounted which didn't happen.

[Gary]

From http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/modern ... ewsday.htm

Today, Theodore Roosevelt's presence still pervades Sagamore Hill. Visitors can see such remembrances of the nation's 26th president as his Rough Rider hat, sword and binoculars hanging from elk antlers in the North Room, the bronze rhino in the front hall where Edith used to put her hat and the boys left phone messages, and the family's presidential china set on the dining room table as if dinner were about to begin.

Can't tell if this is a sword but it is an example of bad firearms handling...

[J Miller]

Naw that's knife one of them fancy curved ones like they used in India.

As for the trigger in the finger guard that nonsense is only a recent obsession with folks. Not that long ago we could handle our guns all we wanted and nobody gave a hoot were we stuck our fingers.
Now you got to do it just right or you get slammed by the Safety Nazis.

Oh speaking of the finger out of the trigger guard, anybody notice the scenes where Mattie Ross shoots Chaney with daddies Dragoon? Go watch it again. When I saw what she was doing I laughed out loud. To me it was a confusion of the times.

JMHO

Joe

[Mokwaw]

I don't know how factual it is (probably not much) but, in the movie ROUGH RIDERS he is leading the volunteers thru the Cuba jungle, his saber gets him tripped up, he takes it off, sticks it in the ground, then goes on without it.........

[pokey]

this is from a photo, wonder if the image is flopped. his holster should face
the other way, if it is an US issue [right side butt forward].



that is a saber hanger on his belt. it would have looked something like this,
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/popup_image.php?pID=3803
light cav. officers model of 1860.

The only IMAGE I can find of him with sword in hand is a fanciful charge of the Rough Riders all mounted which didn't happen.

[Rusty]

In the movie I have where Tom Berringer plays the part of TR he is wearing his sword but it trips him up so he hands it off to a reporter who is covering the war. In just a few minutes the reporter gets distracted by the heat of battle and sets the sword down. When asked for the return of the sword later, the reporter says he must have lost it.

[Gary]

As for the trigger in the finger guard that nonsense is only a recent obsession with folks. Not that long ago we could handle our guns all we wanted and nobody gave a hoot were we stuck our fingers. Now you got to do it just right or you get slammed by the Safety Nazis.

JMHO

Joe

Everyone who ever took a hunter safety class knows the ten rules of firearms safety.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

You and I are old and wise enough to know better. But to any beginner who may view this thread, it is the responsibility of people like us to point out things like this.

I know you were just kidding when you called people who teach NRA Hunter Safety "Nazis". But next time, please include a smiley.

[Catshooter]

There's some truth in what Joe is saying, and there's some in what you're saying Gary.

The NRA teachings are geared toward the range even for hunting. For instance, you're taught to point the weapon in a safe direction. What's that? The only really safe direction is at something that is designed to stop a bullet and that would be a berm. It can ricochet off of the ground, water or some other obstecle and if it goes straight up well, what goes up must come down. So that leaves a berm on the range.

The problem with most safety rules is they tend to be black and white. "Trigger out of the trigger guard until your sights are on the target". For someone who has actually fought with a gun and has paid attention they usually know that their finger finds that trigger pretty fast when things are heating up. Yet when you're moving around hunting finger on the trigger is a very dangerous idea.

Finally, I can understand Joe's frustration with "safety nazi's" (:) ). Safety is danged important, but one can't really make the world a safe place. It isn't one. Safety is an illusion, a wisp o' the will and vanishes in a flash often to reveal that the danger was there all along. If you live a life you can't avoid it completly. The Nazi's mantra does get old after a while.

Just some thoughts. No offence intended.


Cat

[pokey]

safety vanishes in a flash often to reveal that the danger was there all along.

a truth not many are willing to hear.

[WCF3030]

I don't by the "This is how we did it back then" line.
My father and grandfather both Marine Combat Veterans (Vietnam and WWII) were of the finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot" camp. I'm a Vet as well and that is how I instruct.
Its common sense, plain and simple.

[J Miller]

Now listen to what I'm saying and comprehend it.

I'm not trying to argue with any of you guys, NONE of us have lived the same lives and done the same things. We all have different experiences. And until I got on the internet and joined the on line forums I had never heard that keep your finger off the trigger mantra as harped on by those I call "Safety Nazis". Never, not at the ranges, not in the gun shops, not at the rifle club I was a member of as a teen.
We practiced gun safety, yes. But the constant harping about the trigger finger just did not happen.

OK, I don't like safety Nazis. AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT NRA INSTRUCTORS OR ANY GUN RANGE RO. I'm talking about people who insist on commenting about things that happened decades, generations, or longer ago. Like that pic of Roosevelt with his finger on the trigger. WHO BLOODY CARES!

That's why I pose with loaded guns like this:

Finally home.JPG

Loaded gun, finger on trigger. And yes when I originally posted it a safety Nazi ragged on me about it.

Perhaps I'm getting old. I'm sure tired of this "big brotherism" correction and protection of everybody from themselves thing. Screw that nonsense.

Now, back to our regular scheduled thread:

I think it was about Teddy Roosevelt's use of a sword wasn't it?

J e

[Hobie]

Joe,

I have to note that neither your gun nor Teddy's are cocked. I must also note that 40 years ago one saw a lot of things one doesn't see today and this applies to MANY different things. I also remember when a member posted a photo of a loaded Ruger Old Army (stainless 5-1/2") pointed at the camera. Oh, the humanity! It is a fact that some things might shouldn't be done but can be done safely when one reasons through the act...

BTW, I remember an article in which Jim Wilson notes that once upon a time one might be taught to index the trigger finger against the front INSIDE of the trigger guard instead of outside the guard. Things do change.

[O.S.O.K.]

My favorite example of this is the old muzzle in the dirt pose that you see so often. I guess they didn't know that accuracy lives in the muzzle...

[KCSO]

"As you draw the gun your finger goes in the trigger guard to help aim the revolver"

Sixguns by Keith

Yes the finger on frame till you are ready to shoot is a recent invention. Yes it is a detriment to aiming but it is SAFE????

[getitdone1]

I don't mean to detract from the subject of Teddy and his sword but I'll never forget reading about some of the tragedies in his life. His first wife and mother died on the same day in the same house. (His wife died only 2 days after giving birth to their daughter.) In his diary for that day he wrote a large X and wrote, 'the light has gone out of my life.' I'm guessing but think this might have led him to buy a ranch in the Dakotas--just to get away for awhile. He had a brother who had problems and died young and he had four sons, two wounded and one who died in WW1.

And yet, fighter that he was, he lived a great life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

Don

[kragluver]

Read Hunting Trips of the Ranchman & Wilderness Hunter by TR. His "cowboy" days all came shortly after the loss of his first wife as you stated. He did have his share of tragedy in his life. After his son Quentin was shot down and killed in France, the fire went out of TR and it is said he was never the same again. When he died in 1919 I feel it was as much of a broken heart over the loss of his son than anything else.

On the trigger thing - that is a more recent rule. Look through any WW2 photo and you'll see lots and lots of fingers on triggers. Just because it wasn't taught 20 years ago doesn't mean its not a good safety rule.