Black Powder In Your Levergun?

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:24 am

Anyone use Black Powder in their levergun? Most, if not all past and current chamberings are suitable for it. I have for the most part given smokeless the boot from my loading supplies and only keep enough to feed an 03 Springfield, a Krag cut-down, a 1911 and my son's .243 Everything gets fed cast.

I have had extremely good results recently with a Uberti clone of the Whinny 73. Using a 260gr Keith SWC (as cast diameter of .455) lubed with NASA in front of 35 grains (by weight) of Goex cartridge and lite off with a Federal 150 primer, I am getting 1250 ft/sec from a 24" barrel and single digit extreme spreads. Accuracy is remarkable given the stock sights.

Anyone else ???

SS

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:31 am

Nice shooting - there are few here who done it this way and some who used to and some who won't.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 am

A great performing load and some outstanding shooting if you ask me! What kind of case blowback/sooting are you seeing? Can you show us some fired cases?

Thanks,
Oly

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:08 am

I have, just to see, but generally don't. Works good for 45-70, but not as well for .357 (ok but makes it into a .38sp...)

Cimarron · Post by **Cimarron** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:08 pm

I have never used black powder but would like to try some Swiss 1 1/2 Fg. The trouble is finding it locally. I can order it but you end up paying double with shipping and hazardous material charges. In the last 3 weeks I did load up 40 rounds of .45-75 for my Cimarron/Uberti 1876 using 55g (by weight) Pyrodex and a 350g cast bullet. I was hitting in the black at 100 yards but hope to load up some more in the very near future for another trip to the range. Clean up was no big deal. I use Thompson Center #13 bore cleaner on the ceaning patches until they come out clean. I have used Pyrodex for years in my .50-90 Sharps and my .45-70s.

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:14 pm

olyinaz wrote:A great performing load and some outstanding shooting if you ask me! What kind of case blowback/sooting are you seeing? Can you show us some fired cases?

Thanks,
Oly

I get very little if any soot. I feel like it is because the bullet's diameter is .455 and it already has the case expanded to nearly full chamber diameter. Upon firing the resulting expansion seals it nicely. I don't have any freshly fired cases, sorry. At the range they go straight to a gallon jug of water with a squirt of Dawn dish soap. From there, it is a hot water rinse, dry and into the tumbler.

The rifle itself cleans very easily. I turn it upside down and situate it so that the muzzle is downhill of the breech so as not to flush fouling into the workings of the action, Two snug wet patches (Friendship Speed Juice) and two or three dry and it is clean. I shoot the bore with WD40 and spray the innards as well, wipe it down and it is ready to put away.

I use the same load in my Ruger OMBH with good results as well

SS

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:04 pm

WHARTHOG!

Excellent group and shootin'. I shoot a fair amount of BP in my leverguns also. 3 .45Colts, a Uberti 1873 clone, their 1860 clone and a EMF Rossi 1892. Bein' a cowboy action shooter I tend to use the other end of the load spectrum, generally in the 25-30 (by volume) range with bullets from 160grains to 225grains.

The last time I shot the '73 at anything but steel, was to chronograph a load, back a few years ago. Didn't even make any notations on groups or even if I tried. Just looked and nope, those were a smokeless load of Clays & my 225 gr. TC bullet.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:29 pm

Yep, I do it sometimes. I just use "cowboy" loads when I do. I don't shoot them enough to make reloading them worthwhile.

At one range, I went to the area reserved for blackpowder shooting with my GS. I was catching all sorts of flak from the other shooters as I set up. One even decided he should get the RO to put me in my place. Of couse the first round emitting that big ole cloud of smoke shut them right up. Surprisingly, a fair number of BP shooters just don't understand that a "modern" firearm can shoot BP.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:53 pm

I shoot many a SASS match with the black. I use ffg in 44-40 with a 200 grain RNFP lubed with either SPG or my own concotion. My Uberti 73 is imported by Navy Arms and gives me great accuracy from it. I use a Marbles tang sight for tired old eyes.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:17 pm

75SharpsShooter wrote:Anyone use Black Powder in their levergun? Most, if not all past and current chamberings are suitable for it. I have for the most part given smokeless the boot from my loading supplies and only keep enough to feed an 03 Springfield, a Krag cut-down, a 1911 and my son's .243 Everything gets fed cast.

I have had extremely good results recently with a Uberti clone of the Whinny 73. Using a 260gr Keith SWC (as cast diameter of .455) lubed with NASA in front of 35 grains (by weight) of Goex cartridge and lite off with a Federal 150 primer, I am getting 1250 ft/sec from a 24" barrel and single digit extreme spreads. Accuracy is remarkable given the stock sights.

Anyone else ???

SS

Sharpshooter,
I was curious about how you got your Uberti 73 to function with SWC's? I've always heard the toggle link actions did not do to well with them.

Joe

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:21 pm

I have in Marlins chambered in .45. Have not yet in the 73..... Just gotta season and clean em, otherwise, yup, it works fine.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:25 pm

That sure gives me something to aim for. I'll soon be at it.

Owen

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:41 pm

J Miller wrote:
75SharpsShooter wrote:<snip>I have had extremely good results recently with a Uberti clone of the Whinny 73. Using a 260gr Keith SWC (as cast diameter of .455) lubed with NASA in front of 35 grains (by weight) of Goex cartridge and lite off with a Federal 150 primer, I am getting 1250 ft/sec from a 24" barrel and single digit extreme spreads. Accuracy is remarkable given the stock sights.SS
Sharpshooter,
I was curious about how you got your Uberti 73 to function with SWC's? I've always heard the toggle link actions did not do to well with them.
Joe

Joe,
There's function, and then there's functioning at speed. SWCs will cycle thru a toggle-link just fine; if you don't mind running it slow, jostling around to that big square shoulder on the boolit lined up just right with the chamber. Cycling slow enough, it might not even require much manuvering around! Trying to do that while trying to lever 10 rounds thru a toggle-link inside 10 seconds will just about cause anyone to say SWCs don't function well in a toggle link!

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:14 am

black powder will never be used in my levers...i dont like the corrosive mess

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:50 am

J Miller wrote: Sharpshooter,
I was curious about how you got your Uberti 73 to function with SWC's? I've always heard the toggle link actions did not do to well with them.

Joe

Ii have no problems with them in mine. True I am not attempting ten rounds in ten seconds. Still, I work the lever and it functions on demand. No shaking, jostling requited.

RIMFIRE
black powder will never be used in my levers...i dont like the corrosive mess

Proper cleaning technique doesn't produce a corrosive mess. Takes less effort than a smokeless gun for the same task. Most folks disdain black powder because it "makes" you clean after using, not just wipe off and hang up. To each his own of course.

SS

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Yes indeed! .44-40, 45 Colt, 38, .32 Colt, and recently .22LR

I was testing some, new to me, KIK b.p. in the 44-40 last week. Here's a 10 shot group @ 50 yards....

and a .22LR target @ 50 yards after 50 shots had been fired with no cleaning using SWISS

Easy cleanup as well.....about 1/2 the time as smokeless!

As far as corrosiveness goes....haven't had any issues, even if I didn't clean until 2 weeks after shooting.
Don't do that with Pyrodex or you will have a problem!!

w30wcf

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:29 pm

KIK shows great potential. Since goex discontinued cartridge grade

and I am down to 33-34 pounds left, I pay attention to the results shown with KIK. Thanks for posting that dandy shooting.

SS

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:30 pm

75SharpsShooter wrote:
J Miller wrote: Sharpshooter,
I was curious about how you got your Uberti 73 to function with SWC's? I've always heard the toggle link actions did not do to well with them.

Joe

Ii have no problems with them in mine. True I am not attempting ten rounds in ten seconds. Still, I work the lever and it functions on demand. No shaking, jostling requited.

<snip>

SS

SS, Since the Keith SWC is longer in the nose than a normal .45 bullet, do you seat it to crimp over the driving band or crimp it into the band?
This is something I'm really curious about because I do like the Henry replicas and one day am gonna get me one. (Griff's iron framed one makes me drool every time he posts a pic of it.

)
And I have scads of SWCs loaded.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:40 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:black powder will never be used in my levers...i dont like the corrosive mess

A terribly wrong misconception. Properly cleaned, a gun used w/BP stands no more propensity to corrosion than its smokeless counterpart.

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:38 pm

J Miller wrote: SS, Since the Keith SWC is longer in the nose than a normal .45 bullet, do you seat it to crimp over the driving band or crimp it into the band?
This is something I'm really curious about because I do like the Henry replicas and one day am gonna get me one. (Griff's iron framed one makes me drool every time he posts a pic of it. )
And I have scads of SWCs loaded.

Joe

Joe

Yes I seat the front band flush with the case mouth and just crimp enough to take the bell out and a tiny bit more. There is no fear of the bullet retreating into the case as it is firm against powder and with the bullet diameter of .455 there is plenty of neck tension.

Put your bib on and don't mess up the keyboard.

SS

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:04 pm

SS,

Thanks for the info.

That 73 is to drool for

Joe

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:37 pm

75SharpsShooter,
The biggest issue with shooting b.p. in a repeating rifle is the powder / bullet / lube ability to keep it running for at least several magazines full without “fouling out” (hard ring of fouling starting at the muzzle and extending back into the barrel) which destroys accuracy.

Being a traditionalist of sorts, I prefer the early two groove bullet style as used by UMC, WRA CO, etc in their black powder cartridges beginning back in the 1800’s …… 427098 (44-40), 454190 (45 Colt), etc.

Up to just a few weeks ago I have tried several different black powders in combination with SPG and NASA lubes (Goex, Schuetzen, Elephant, Diamondback, KIK (old lot) & Swiss) and of those powders, I found that only SWISS will run accurately for several magazines full with no foul out in 24” barrels. With the other powders, after 15 or so rounds, groups start opening up as the barrel fouls out.

The recent lot of KIK looks like it might be another powder to go the distance. I loaded 15 rounds of 1 1/2F and 15 rounds of 2F (30 total) and fired them all without cleaning and accuracy prevailed throughout. Next I need to load 50 rounds and see if they shoot well from start to finish.

I have read that KIK uses the same charcoal as SWISS (Alder Buckthorn) so perhaps it will work as well.

We shall see…………

w30wcf

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:58 pm

There is only one source for real black powder here in Springfield. I wish he carried something other than Goex.
I can't justify ordering in a quantity of bp. I just don't shoot that much of it.

Joe

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:05 pm

Yep, fouling is a tough one to get by with pistol calibers due to the lack of grease grooves found in the rifle. My first loads that I used in my 45 colt Low Wall were with Swiss1.5f and even with it's 30" barrel, I could go 25 - -30rounds with no trouble at all. Goex will go 20 rounds through the 73 levergun if I lube the crimp groove with no appreciable loss of accuracy. I like Swiss, but they have decided that it is gold plated and I refuse to buy when I can get the same accuracy for a few dollars less.

The pictures are for Joe

SS

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:06 pm

SS,

You got some NICE rifles there.

Joe

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:30 pm

Nice rifle - good shooting.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:03 pm

Interesting. I would have thought the Kieth bullet design's grease grooves weren't big enough, but obviously the results speak for themselves. What is you "lube concoction" (other than SPG)?

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:42 am

75SharpsShooter,
Very nice rifles! NEAT!

One of my most favorite things to do is to shoot blackpowder from my 44-40 and 45 Colt leverguns at extended distances....just like it was done back in the late 1800's with 44-40 users (no rifles chambered in 45 Colt back then).

My favorite target for this is the 300 meter steel javelina target on the NRA Highpower Silhouette range. Shooting from the bench a few years ago......after getting a sight setting with the tang sight on my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Rifle, I was able to knock down the steel javelinas with pretty good regularity using ammunition loaded with 40.0 grs of SWISS FFG and a 454190 RCBS variant.

I painted one of the "swingers" to check the potential accuracy of that load/ rifle combo and I was very pleased to say the least!

The steel swinger is located just to the right of the #6 bank of the second target out with the flag over top.

The 44-40 does just as well

Left 44-40 Right 45 Colt

w30wcf

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:53 am

Very nice shooting with those Cowboys. I think/realize black powder had great accuracy potential from some of the muzzleloader shooting I have done when the conditions were right. Never have shot it in cartridges.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:40 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:Interesting. I would have thought the Kieth bullet design's grease grooves weren't big enough, but obviously the results speak for themselves. What is you "lube concoction" (other than SPG)?

The true Keith bullets were designed for use with black or smokeless. Part of his reasoning in designing them was a sharp front shoulder to scrape fouling, and a large grease groove. Works quite well in smokeless applications as well, as intended. I used the Lyman/Keith bullets (429421) in my 44 spl black powder loads years ago, they did fine.

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:44 am

w30wcf,

Nice rifles and VERY nice shooting! I like to stretch the legs of them also. The picture of the low wall leaning against the hay bale was taken during a groundhog hunt last year. Shooting off of cross sticks I managed to miss one standing at just under 200 yards (laser rangefinder) and then hit another at 285. The fellas I was hunting with were shooting 20PPC's and the like but that just is not as fun. My varmint shooter is a Shiloh 1874 in 40-65 with a Malcolm 6X. I'm just getting started working with it and hopefully I can get a load worked out in time for some late season cow pasture plinking.

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Interesting. I would have thought the Kieth bullet design's grease grooves weren't big enough, but obviously the results speak for themselves. What is you "lube concoction" (other than SPG)?

I do not use SPG myself as I have had it foul out the last 6" of a 30" barrel too often in under 10 shots even when using a blow tube. Several years ago Dan Congiolosi A.K.A. BullShop on the Castboolits forum concocted a formula called NASA. He sent me a big cake of it to try and I haven't found anything better yet. The 75 sharps I used to test it would lead a little every time I shot it no matter the alloy. It solved that completely and honest to god, after a 10 shot string you can push a dry patch through and it is clean. http://www.bullshop.gunloads.com/ Good stuff!

SS

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:58 am

75SharpsShooter,
THank you for the kind words. That's not to say that the rifle/load combinations and myself are capable of repeating that accuracy time and time again but it shows what is possible with late 1800's technology.

Wow! A groundhog at 285 yards! Awesome! Great shooting!

New 45 Colt rifle bullet.....

A good friend of mine had a great idea when he had ACCURATE MOLDS make a copy of the time proven 44-40 427098 except that the lube grooves were flat bottomed (like the original factory swagged bullet) and hold a bit more lube. I have that mold made by ACCURATE MOLDS (thank you to my friend) and it makes great bullets. It's a 3 cavity.

Recently I decided to have ACCURATE MOLDS make a .45 Colt bullet with the same profile as the 427098. I received the 3 cavity mold and made some bullets. They weigh 260 grs. in w.w. and are "spot on" the dimensions. They guarantee .000 + .0015" on your specified diameter in your alloy.

I haven't had the chance to work with it a lot yet but preliminary results show that it has very good potential.

w30wcf

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:55 am

w30wcf,

The groundhog shot has not been repeated sadly. The expression on the face of the guys i was with was worth money though

The rifle is capable. It's the loose nut behind it that causes the problems.

The 260gr 45 bullet looks good. Had it been me, I would have increased the degree of the lube groove from 45 to 55 degrees to give it more lube capacity. The only down side of doing that is that it weakens the bullet across it's longitudinal axis and if used with say something more stout than a 45 colt, the risk of slump becomes a consideration.

I've not dealt with Accurate molds yet. How do you judge their quality?

SS

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:22 am

SS,

Is your low wall a Cimarron/Uberti?

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:20 pm

Cimarron Red wrote:SS,

Is your low wall a Cimarron/Uberti?

Yes it is. I added the Marbles tang and Lyman 17 front sight to make it more useful.

SS

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:12 pm

They are great-looking rifles. I was seriously considering one in .32-20. One thing that gives me pause, though, is that the stock has a lot more drop than I like. I guess I need to handle one. Thanks.

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:45 pm

Cimarron Red wrote:They are great-looking rifles. I was seriously considering one in .32-20. One thing that gives me pause, though, is that the stock has a lot more drop than I like. I guess I need to handle one. Thanks.

For open sights work they seem to fit fine. If you installed a period correct type scope such as a Malcolm, I suppose you might need a lace on cheek rest. Couldn't say for certain. A heavy faced gent might get along fine without.

SS

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:34 pm

All my rifles get tang sights; the open sights are in-a-drawer dust collectors. I'm sure you're right about needing a lace-on comb if you mount a scope on the rifle.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:03 pm

I enjoy shooting black powder in my leverguns, but I usually use smokeless. Here are links to a couple of my old threads on shooting black powder in a levergun;

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=8780

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=7720

SHASTA

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:00 am

In their 1875 catalog, WINCHESTER illustrated this target sent to them by Doc Pardee along with his information.....

It affords me much pleasure to communicate to you the result of thirty successive shots at the distance of 110 yards, with one of the improved Winchester Rifles (1873 Wincester).

The firing was done without wiping, which proves the Winchester to be steady in her performance, and gives assurance to the sportsman that if he only performs his part in the manipulation of the piece, he need not fear the California jaguar, or grizzly bear.

The cover over the carrier-block protects the same from all moisture. In short, I think the new Winchester the most perfect of all the. breech-loaders, for all practical and sporting purposes. I have shot her sixteen times in 56 seconds, 100 yards, and every shot would hit a deer. It is the king-pin of all fire-arms in the forest and on the plains.
E. H. PARDEE, M.D.,
737 Clay St., San Francisco, Cal.

The 110 yard target shown measures about 4 inches which would be = to about 3.6" at 100 yards.

One of my goals with b.p. is to try and at least equal Docs target.
30 successive shots in a row with no cleaning or blowtubing.

Anyone else want to give it a try?

w30wcf

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:44 am

I'm game! I gotta try. It's not as if it is work ya know

3.5" for 30 shots..............at 100 yards...that's fine shooting anywhere.

SS

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:49 am

75SharpsShooter,
Welcome aboard. The first time I tried it a couple of months ago with my 44-40 I ended up with a group around 5" but 25 of the 30 rounds were slightly under 4", so I loaded more ammo with the intent of trying it again. After the 44-40, I'll try the 45 Colt next.

w30wcf

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:42 pm

My casting is behind... but, having received a recent shipment of lead... I'm game. Uberti '73 in .45 Colt with factory sights. Open sights, I'll be using my RCBS 45-225CAV bullets, Goex "Cartridge" and SPG lube and WLP primers. 110 yards... just doable in my pasture. But, it'll have to cool down first and I have to mow... let's see, any other excuses I can come up with?

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:52 am

Griff,
Thank you for joining in. It is interesting to step back in time and to try duplicating the feats of those that have gone before us.

Here's a couple of Hickock 45's videos shooting b.p. in the 1873 and 1894 Winchester(pistol cartridge).
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/ ... _N_k0mdsj4
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/ ... fu4aaMWoXk

Happy Independence day!
w30wcf

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:13 am

w30wcf wrote: Here's a couple of Hickock 45's videos shooting b.p. in the 1873 and 1894 Winchester(pistol cartridge).
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/ ... _N_k0mdsj4
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/ ... fu4aaMWoXk

Happy Independence day!
w30wcf

Great Vids! Thanks for pointing us to em.

SS

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:30 am

w30wcf,

Would it be safe to conclude this group of 30 shots into 4" at 110 yds would be shot from the bench?

I'd be lucky to keep 30 shots on a paper plate any other way.

Joe

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:10 am

Joe,
Yes, it would have been shot from a rest. There are very few people in the world that could put 30 consecutive shots in a 3.6" or less group @ 100 yards....and that would be with a modern rifle with fast lock time.

w30wcf

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:08 pm

Well.....I got a bit of a head start since I already had the ammo loaded for the 44-40. Next I will try this with the .45 COlt Marlin Cowboy.

I did try this first a couple of months ago and had a group of around 5". Encouraging was the fact that 25 of the rounds grouped into 4".

I did mount a 4X scope for my second attempt since I wanted it to be a true test of the rifle / ammunition combination rather than a test of the rifle / ammunition / and my aging eyesight.

Here's the target with the ammunition recipe and a tribute to Doc Pardee who started me down this path.... Thank you Doc.
I drew the circle after the target was made.

I want to express my thanks to "Fairshake" who had ACCURATE MOLDS make a copy of the 427098 bullet design but with flat bottomed lube grooves like the original 44-40 factory lead bullets were and to specify that the mold drop bullets at .429" diameter which is a good fit for current 44-40 barrels. I used bullets from that ACCURATE MOLD for my testing.

Prior to the 1st 30 shot attempt, I did try Goex and Schuetzen powders with the 427098 to see if they would go the distance, but both "fouled out" in 15 rounds (hard ring of fouling from the muzzle back into the barrel a couple of inches) and the group(s) really opened up. Perhaps they would work ok in 20" and less barrels but they didn't in that extra 4" (24") on the Marlin Cowboy with the original 44-40 bullet.

As we all know, it is kind of neat to walk in the footsteps of the ones that have gone before us……..

w30wcf

75SharpsShooter · Post by **75SharpsShooter** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:34 pm

Pssst! Scopes is cheatin`!

Nice shooting though. I will have to do it the old fashioned way when I can escape to the range. Lord in heaven knows when that will be.......

SS

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:44 pm

Peeps are the same darn thing and cheating and cats are filthy creatures.