Your opinions?

[rjohns94]

Ok, so i missed out on the rifle in 30-30AI that I wanted to purchase. The rifle was made by Wild West Guns. Lets say you wanted to have one of thier Co-Pilot custom lever guns. Don't need to know what extras you would want on it but lets say money is not an object. Here are the caliber choices, all in a Marlin action: 45-70, .457 mag, 50 Alaskan, 30-30, 30-30AI, 35Rem, 44mag, .357mag, 45 colt. Question is, which caliber would you choose in a 16.5 inch barrel, takedown, (scout scope optional) for a hunting rifle, deer, hog, bear?

[6pt-sika]

I always wanted one of their rifles in 50 Alaskan however I wanted one that looked just like a Marlin 1895G .

For the 16 1/2" barreled Co-Pilot I might go with the 35 REM or 45-70 out of the choices you mentioned !

If I were to choose the caliber for the Co-Pilot from my own personal preference it would most likely be a 444 and also "possibly" a 375 WIN .

[Stan in SC]

45/70.Always.

Stan in SC

[FWiedner]

Question is, which caliber would you choose in a 16.5 inch barrel, takedown, (scout scope optional) for a hunting rifle, deer, hog, bear?

For the lower 48 I'd go .35 Rem or .45-70 Gov't, but farther north I might step a notch to .450 Mag or the .50 Alaskan.

Bigger bears, y'know?

A Co-Pilot in .35 Rem just kinda puts thoughts of satisfaction in a Texas fella's head.

[RKrodle]

Question is, which caliber would you choose in a 16.5 inch barrel, takedown, (scout scope optional) for a hunting rifle, deer, hog, bear?

For the lower 48 I'd go .35 Rem or .45-70 Gov't, but farther north I might step a notch to .450 Mag or the .50 Alaskan.

Bigger bears, y'know?

A Co-Pilot in .35 Rem just kinda puts thoughts of satisfaction in a Texas fella's head.

I agree with Fred, a co-pilot in 35 REM would be nice. And very capable of taking the animals you list.

[guido4198]

45/70....no hesitation, no question.

[Blaine]

44 Mag, please.

[madman4570]

In that Mfg.(I do love that Alaskan Co Pilot)
There would be no question: The .457 WWMAG
Since it has the ability to shoot normal 45-70 ammo along with even upping it up several notches over heavy 45-70 ammo
why limit yourself to only the 45-70 ?
I like that feature and because it will kill anything on land.
And if I know you pal, you will be using it on some very big bad mean stuff.

[Pitchy]

45-70, i just love them.

[AJMD429]

Unless in Grizzly or Polar Bear country, I'd either take the .45 Colt, .44 Mag, (both nice compact guns with short lever-throw) or .35 Remington (longer lever-throw, but better if I wanted longer-range without dealing with sight adjustment).

In big-bear country, I'd pick a .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin (sorry, .45-70 fans, but I do think the really 'hot' loads are likelier to be 'ok' for long-term in a .450 Marlin gun than a .45-70, and at least more 'warrantied'). The problem with those is all of them have longer lever-throw than I like.

If I were really having to deal with fanged/toothed man-eaters, I might even drop the levergun and go for a .50 Beowulf.

[Chas.]

.45-70 because I already have the dies . Do you suppose you can get 457 Wild West Magnum ammo anywhere but Wild West Guns? But it can use 45-70.

[Terry Murbach]

BACK WHEN I WAS STILL WORKING, TWO OF THE COMPANY 45-70 TEST GUNS WERE A MARLIN GUIDE GUN AND A MARLIN WILD WEST CO-PILOT. THEY WERE ALL BUT IDENTICAL IN FORM, SHAPE, WEIGHT, AND SIZE, WITH THE CO-PILOT HAVING AN EVER SO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT BARREL LENGTH [ I THINK IT WAS A TINY BIT SHORTER....BUT CANNOT REMEMBER FOR SURE..] THERE WAS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE GUNS THOUGH AS WITH THE SAME 45-70 TEST AMMO THE GUIDE GUN WAS A PUDDY-TAT TO SHOT; THE CO-PILOT BEAT THE LIVING stuff OUT OF ME AND EVERONE ELSE. I HATED THAT DARNED CO-PILOT WITH A DAY-GLO PURPLE PASSION BUT DARNED NEAR BOUGHT A GUIDE GUN OF MY OWN [ I RAN ACROSSED A MARLIN 26" CB 45-70 WITH APERTURE REAR AND GLOBE FRONT SIGHTS, AND THAT BEAUTIFUL BADGER BARREL THAT WAS ON THE FIRST MARLIN C/B 45-70 RIFLES....OH MY...]

[Old Savage]

Same experience with a friend's guide gun.

[piller]

Since I already have a Guide Gun, I would go for the .45 Colt. A 300 grain WFN hard cast pushed by something like H4227 out of a 16 1/2 inch barrel should be able to knock a big hog down with ease. And, the 300 grain plated soft point bullets from Speer should be Great as well.

[Leverdude]

44 Mag, please.

+1.
I never used one until recently to hunt with but my son & me took 2 hogs a piece with a 1894 Marlin in March, one shot, boom flop every time. I was real impressed & I like the idea of having the ability to stuff it with a bunch of bullets that, within 100 yards anyway, will pretty much knock the snot out of what you shoot with it. That guns his now but I have a 336/44 I'm going to start playing with. 22 grains of 4227 under a 240 something or other JSP. I think they were Mag Tek, but I go thru alot of bullets & had some Magnus too, I just put what I had been shooting at the time in a box & shipped it to Oklahoma before the hunt.
At any rate Its real likely I'll be walking the woods with a 44 Marlin this fall. I never shoot nuthing far away anyhow.

[Griff]

...which caliber would you choose in a 16.5 inch barrel, takedown, (scout scope optional) for a hunting rifle, deer, hog, bear?

.30-30, already got it!


But, you knew I'd say that, right?

[rjohns94]

yep, i did Griff

[stretch]

One of each, of course. And you could spend years fooling around with
different loads in each of 'em.

You're in Pa? Try the 35 Remington, unless, of course, you've just
GOT TO have one of the others.

And you forgot the 41 Magnum. (How COULD you!?!)
That's another levergun caliber that would slay anything you mentioned.

-Stretch

[damienph]

For deer, hog, bear, I would choose the 45-70. It could be loaded as hot or not as you choose in the Wild West Marlin. The 35 Remington would be a good choice also.

The 50 Alaskan; NO WAY, NO HOW! In a 16.5" rifle?! My brother has a beautiful Browning M71 that he had rebarreled to 50 AK; that thing just beats the stuffing out of you to shoot it. Unless you are going to hunt large bears, I would not even consider it. Wwaayyy overkill for deer, hog, or black bear.

[Hobie]

45/70.Always.

Stan in SC

Me, too.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Lower 48 deer, hog, (black) bear I'd definitely go with the 44 mag. I've been hunting with my 44 mag Marlin for 35 years and never had to shoot an animal twice, and they all pretty much dropped in their tracks. IMHO a 16.5" barrel too short to efficiently burn all the powder in a 45-70, .457, 50 Alaskan, etc. wasting powder, increased muzzle flash, and muzzle blast but just about perfect length for a 44 magnum length cartridge. I love my .357 Trapper but with bear added to the equation I'd definitely prefer the 44 magnum.
In the AK bush I'd opt for the 45/70 but with a longer barrel to get the most from the cartridge.

[rjohns94]

Ji,

You hit the nail on the head and one of the points of my question and restriction to 16.5 inch. In what length barrel is each caliber mentioned maximized? For the others, I have owned a WWG in .457 mag and I shot a Nelgei with it in texas. It is an amazingly accurate firearm. It had a 20 inch barrel. I agree entirely that the 457/45-70 would serve pretty much anywhere in the world with few exceptions.

The 35 Rem needs how much of a barrel to realize its potential? is 20 inches better than anything shorter? .357 sees a huge boost in a 20 inch barrel, but what about trapper or mid trapper length? .44 mag sees significant gain to what length of barrel? Lots of trapper length 30-30's and 32 specials. Haven't seen a trapper in 35 remington, is there a reason? Not much sense in stopping at 45-70 if a .457 can shoot both. 30-30AI gives a little boost to 30-30 but can it be realized in a 16.5 inch barrel and can a 35 Rem out perform that AI at every barrel length? These are just some of the questions I was thinking of as I posted this.

Like I said, the .457/45-70 seems to be the logical choice but I'm really intrigued by the possibility of perhaps a 30-30, 30-30AI, or 35 rem in a take down as a primary woods walking rifle, with the nod going between the 30-30 or the 35 rem. I have a trapper in .44mag. Some say the .44mag out performs the 30-30 out to 100 yards. I'm thinking I might want to extend that range.

So having one in .457/45-70 and one in perhaps .35 rem might just fit the bill. Still not sure. I feel the 35 Rem is an excellent caliber and one that I've not really become too familiar with. Done the .357, .44 mag, 30-30 in trapper and the upper end of the 457/45-70. Now, what barrel length? 16.5, 18.5, 20?

[FWiedner]

This might be of some use.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/results.html

[rjohns94]

thanks Fred, looks like .44 mag gets no gain after 16.5 inches. None of the rifle calibers we were talking. Great source of data though. I"m familiar with the performance of the .357 and the .44 mag. Looking for my reloading manuals now.

[bj94]

In a custom gun with 16.5" barrel I would go for .45-70. But if I was going for a custom gun I would go for the big .50 and get a longer barrel.

The reason I wouldn't go for .30-30 or other is that a stock Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 in .30-30, or a Marlin 94 in .45 colt, is very hard to improve on.

The bottom line is that most of the options are good options.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Ji,

.357 sees a huge boost in a 20 inch barrel, but what about trapper or mid trapper length? .44 mag sees significant gain to what length of barrel?

The tables seem to confirm that both .357 magnum, and 44 magnum both max out in velocity at around 16" of barrel length, and decrease in velocity with each added inch of barrel from there on the average give or take a load.
As I recall I believe A.K. Church several years back verified this with a chronograph and a .357 magnum Handi rifle which he cut down the barrel in one inch increments.

[madman4570]

Something just to put on the table for consideration is what's doing as of late with the 3 calibers( .454 casull, .460S&W, .500S&W)?
That .460S&W being able to shoot all ---.45colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W in the same weapon could do from cowboy action shooting up to anything. Just a thought. Also even the .454 Casull wouldn't be bad. (as long as the gun is made to handle the pressures)?

I do really my .454 Casull and its not bad even with stout stuff from a little 4lb handgun
But, then again for ease on the weapon shooting the average loaded 45-70 is hard to beat???
Yep, rewind, I will still grab the 457 WWMAG

[.45colt]

...............................45-70............................................

[Sixgun]

There's only one caliber in that short of a barrel and that light of a gun that makes sense. -------44 mag. with the 45 Long Colt coming in for a close second. The 44 gets the nod because of ease of availability, strength of brass, the amount of cartridges in the magazine, controlability, and many more options that we all know about here. Forget the small bores for obvious reasons. 45-70's with 400 grain bullets traveling at stymied factory velocities will even want to jump out of your hand in a light gun.

The people in this country are too enamored with powerful cartridges. All of these super magnums (500 S&W, 475's, etc.) are nothing more than adventurous thinking by the gun companies to sell more guns.---------------------Sixgun

[madman4570]

Say what you will, but honestly I think the .44 under certain conditions is not enough gun for BIG Bear(and that's what we have a lot of anymore) over 500lbs
The amount of shells held in the gun means squat to me with a 600-700lb ticked off bear bearing down on me at 40yards?
The kick----Come on boys (man up) cause it aint that bad.(especially knowing Mike's size and physical ability)
Sure it has recoil, but it has the needed butt whopping going where it needs to go coming out the other end.
Heck, since a little 20ga (say a Rem 870 slugster) shoots a 260gr .454 bonded core-Lokt (handgun bullet)at 2000fps that .44 seems kind of puny? for a big sized ticked off bear Why take the chance if ya don't need to?

[horsesoldier03]

As tempting as a 45-70 might be, I have to agree with SIXGUN. That is way to much recoil for me to want to shoot and ENJOY as a firearm. Yes, I am sure I can do it, however, ENJOY is the key word.

I have a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. When you put hot loads through that light of a rifle, it gets unpleasant real quick. With a short barrel, your not going to appreciate the full velocity of a rifle cartridge, so you might as well opt for a pistol cartridge and increase your round capacity.

My top three choices would be as follows: .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .30-30.