Effective Range Limitation for .357 Mag Rifle?

[Remington40x]

I was playing with a Martini Cadet (has a lever, so it's on topic!) yesterday. It was firing Federal American Eagle 158 grain soft points into much tinier groups than I'd anticipated with the basic front bead/rear leaf sights on the rifle.

That kind of lead to me to wonder whether I might use it for deep woods PA deer hunting, and, if I did, what I should think about in terms of range limitations for a humane kill.

Just looking for thoughts - have owned and shot a number of .357 revolvers over the years, but this is my first .357 rifle.

Thanks.

[awp101]

I had no problems with a 24" .44 Mag Win94 at 100yds (other than the operator ). With a shorter length .357, I'd stick to 75yds max for me.

Loaded hotter (like closer to the original .357 specs) with a game bullet, a 22-24" barrel and/or a better shooter, I'd think 100-125yds depending on the size of the game.

BTW, my .357 Cadet really likes .38 Special wadcutters...

[adirondakjack]

Assume a 158 gr bullet at 1600 FPS muzzle velocity. At 120-130 yards, yer still pushing it around 1150-1200 fps. IF you can hit well at that range (assumes little wind, good hands and a solid rest, that'd be humane on a deer. Might not be bang-flop, but if it's in the boiler room..... Assuming a 50 yard zero, holding on the top of the back will put the round 8-9" down into the body.

[J Miller]

The .357 Mag out of a rifle is a whole nuther animal than when shot out of a hand gun.
The effective range is more you than the gun cartridge. How far can you shoot accurately? How far can you keep your shots on a standard paper plate from shooting positions? 50 yards, 75, 82, 100 or more?

In reality it's the shooter more than the rifle.

Joe

[Rube Burrows]

I killed a pretty nice 9 point this past year with a .357mag Rossi 20" barrel.

[FWiedner]

An AE 158gr JSP will easily kill a medium sized deer inside 100yds.

That said, I zero my Marlin 1894C at 75yds using that same AE 158gr JSP, and try to stay inside 75yds.

[jnyork]

The .357 Mag out of a rifle is a whole nuther animal than when shot out of a hand gun.
The effective range is more you than the gun cartridge. How far can you shoot accurately? How far can you keep your shots on a standard paper plate from shooting positions? 50 yards, 75, 82, 100 or more?

In reality it's the shooter more than the rifle.

Joe

There it is. In addition, the iron sights will be a limiting factor, most iron sights pretty much cover up half a deer at 100 yards.

[Ji in Hawaii]

I popped a wild Maui billy goat at 125 yards with my 23" barreled Rossi single shot 357 (Blazer 158 grain HPs). Popped a nice Blackbuck doe at 80 yards after shortening the barrel to 16.25" (Winchester 158 JSPs). Great woods rifle.

[COSteve]

The first issue is what size animal are you hunting? Foxes, coyotes, etc. are small game for the 357mag and could be hunted at longer ranges, Deer sized animals range from under 100lbs in the east to well over 200lbs in the west so acceptability of the 357mag on deer depends upon what size deer you'll encounter. Feral hogs can go from small to huge and have tough skins and mean dispositions. With that as a background, here is some hard data about 357mag performance in a levergun.

I have two Rossi 357mag rifles; a 20" carbine and a 24" rifle. I've chrono'd some under max (16.5grn H110), 158grn 357mag handloads I made up with the following results: Range Conditions - 6,100ft asl, 78° sunny day. Ammunition: 357mag loaded with 16.5grns H110 under a 158grn Zero JSP bullet, magnum primers in a Winchester case loaded at 1.580" OAL. Performance measured on Oehler 35 chrono 12ft from muzzle: 24" Rossi rifle produced 1,822fps and 1,164ft/lbs ME and the 20" Rossi carbine produced 1,789fps and 1,123ft/lbs ME. Using Handloads.com's ballistic calculator, the calculated performance at 100yds would be: 24" Rossi rifle still produces 1,452fps and 740ft/lbs ME and the 20" Rossi carbine still produces 1,426fps and 713ft/lbs ME.

These are not full velocity 357mag handloads I made up for punching paper at 300yds with my 24" levergun (yes, 300yds with a tang sight and front post), not 357mag hunting ammo. Hunting level 158grn 357mag ammo should produce about 2,000fps out of a 20" levergun, and higher velocities are easily achieved with the hot .357mag loads Buffalo Bore Company advertizes, especially if fired in a 24" barrel. Their 158grn 'Heavy 357magnum Ammunition' produces the following performance claims; 18.5" Marlin levergun produced 2,153fps and 1,626ft/lbs ME at the muzzle (mean elevation of Montana - 3,400ft asl). At 100yds, Handloads.com's ballistic calculator predicts that their ammo out of an 18.5" Marlin levergun would still produce 1,731fps and 1,051ft/lbs ME at 100yds.

So, what does this all mean? If one considers that the 30-30 is a great deer rifle under 200yds when it pushes a 150grn bullet at 2,300fps, then I think it's safe to say that a 20" 357mag carbine loaded with BB's hot ammo would be acceptable for small to mid size deer out to 150 yards and smaller animals out farther as long as you can hit your aim point consistently. However, because of the limitations most of us have using the std iron sights on our leverguns, I think it's also safe to say that a maximum safe range to consider would be one where you can reliably place your shots in a 6" circle.

[Marlin32]

I used a Marlin 1894 357 mag exclusively for deer hunting for years. Then the state made the gun illegal, as it doesn't have the required energy of 900 ft-lbs at 100yds. Don't get me started on that whole can of worms.

Anyway, I used 180gr Federal HP's, under 50 yards, this was one dead deer, and in Nebraska the deer are easy 200lb critters and up. My max range would have been 75yds, as I used open sights, and frankly, I couldn't see more than 50 yards in any direction out of that stand.

It was just smack lethal under 50yds, never shot one further out with it. I imagine the Buffalo Bore and maybe some other rounds would be just as good if not better even. (and might be legal under Neb definition too?)

[firefuzz]

I think it's also safe to say that a maximum safe range to consider would be one where you can reliably place your shots in a 6" circle.

I think this is pretty much my opinion. I'm confindent that a .357 mag out of a rifle will kill a deer sized animal easily at 200yds with a properly placed shot. Back when I shot alot hitting a 6" gong at 200yds wasn't much of a problem at all. Nowadays I'd be lucky to hit it at 100yds consistantly so that is my effective range with any rifle sighted the same way.

Rob

[2X22]

My wife has taken about a dozen bucks over the years with her little Marlin and a 4X scope at distances out to around 125 yards with one I can remember just a bit further. Not huge deer, hanging weights between around 110lbs up to one that weighed 187lbs. All 1 shot kills with a 158gr Remington JSP at 1760fps.

2x22

[El Chivo]

I would say 200 meters, it is my most accurate caliber for silhouette out that far, knocks em down too.

Bullet drop can give you a hint, it's at about that point that you have to start holding so far above the target it isn't really worth it. Which also means the bullet has lost a fair amount of energy by then.

I remember shooting a cardboard box at 200 meters, the box was a 24" cube. So the front was 2 feet from the back. The exit holes were only a fraction of an inch below the entrance holes, so the bullet path was almost horizontal. Not a scientific test, but gives some indication.

[L_Kilkenny]

Accuraccy being the key but in general take what you consider the effective range (powerwise) of your .357 hand gun and add 100 yards. As stated by COSteve, a .357 from a rifle is still packing as much or more power out of a rifle at 100 yards than the .357 does from the muzzle of a handgun.

LK

[oic0]

Honestly, I think on these guns the max range is whatever you can still hit the kill zone at. Oh I'm sure theres some crazy guy somewhere that could rainbow a deer right in the sweet spot at 400 yards with one, but for the rest of us, we are the limitation. At least I know I am lol.

[Old Savage]

100 yds.

[bdhold]

if you want to push your single shot a little, you can load these:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/86690-1.html
Hornady 3505
can't shoot these pointed things in your lever, though.

[86er]

With typical 158gr pistol ammo fired from a rifle we've always used this formula:

25 yd up to 250 pound animal. For every +25 yds, decrease animal weight 25%. (broadside lung shots only)

50 yd = 187.5 pounds

75 yd = 140 pounds

100 yd = 105 pounds

125 yd = 80 pounds

150 yd = 60 pounds

You may be able to do more but this guideline will keep you from being disappointed.

I think heavy 180 gr loads for rifles add a lot. Maybe reduce 15-20% per 25 yds with these loads as a guideline.

[Remington40x]

Wow. a lot more of a response than I ever expected. Thanks very much.

If I decide to use the Cadet, it will be in the woods of north-central PA. Where I hunt, 100 yards is generally a long shot. I have better deer rifles (too many, my wife would tell you), but the accuracy of this one surprised me and its very light weight made me think it might make a pleasant companion on a day in the woods.