Nearly time to take a bow--OUT. Forum is changing. EDITED
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Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Nearly time to take a bow--OUT. Forum is changing. EDITED
A few weeks ago, the feeling began to creep up on me. Something was lacking while reading this forum. Then, during last week, and definitely today, it is becoming obvious--The forum is becoming a font for negativism and the spewing of ill informed people's prejudices. --That is only my opinion. So, those who have it in them to attack, I really don't care what you do. And yes, this is not the most positive post on the forum today--is it!
Just a short while back, many of us contributed to a hunt that graced three men's lives, as well as, offering to all members of this forum feelings of good will and that wonder which touches those who give.
Then came another chance to step up--more money to keep the forum operating. I have yet to see the results of people's generosity, but I suspect a sufficient amount poured in. (I'm feeling these days that I threw my money into fostering a dying forum.)
Some of us know what each others' families are like.
Members share heart-felt wishes and soul-felt prayers.
Stories are viewed for the sake of sharing life--at least they used to be.
Lately, it seems things cannot be shared without the stamp of approval of "experts," editors, lie detectors, and a multitude of crystal balls all of whom really don't know what they are talking about, or who should finally just back-off for a bit and let others appreciate sharing on this forum.
I, too, broke last week from letting the stuff flow downhill on its own. I jumped in and spread a goodly share of ill will.
Just a few threads to show a bit of what I mean:
A photo of a fellow with a monstrous cougar, catamount, puma, painter, panther, she-lion--there are at least fifteen more names for this kitty. It appeared on the surface that a man was proud of the cat he had harvested, but beneath the surface, it became a sham. Members of this forum pecked away at the topic (which needed no pecking, did not ask for pecking) pecked until the mood of the post and any sacredness regarding the man's hunt had been successfully soured.
I had complimented another member in a round-a-bout way on his knowledge of reloading/tools. He took it as an affront. I'm wondering if two months ago he would have been in the frame of mind to misinterpret my regard for him? Is the attitude changing on this forum?
That business about being smarter than an 8th Grader from 1895--The quick turn from talking about the test to bashing America's current education system, educators, and especially today's students.
There is another one tonight--the post that should be honoring veterans. Another of our heroes is dead. But no, don't allow a discussion of their sacrifice. Don't allow us to feel for the men and women who gave so much. Rather, step into the conversation with more of your generalizations, your expertise gained from where?, and bash the stuff out of a group of people or a system of which you are ignorant.----Now, some will say, "Oh, that LeverBar, he's a retired teacher, and he is just too sensitive when we point out faults of the education system." There they would be wrong. I worked in the system; I know just how screwed up it is. But you who are spewing in this forum about it, discounting the.... Enough of me here.
Then there is the "sabotaged screw." (No, it is not about a grand fornication interrupted.) People are going every which way on that one.
That is enough for me to begin to show where a portion of my disillusionment with this forum is coming from.
I'm not the only one who is waking to the difference in Leverguns from what it used to be. On another forum, I stumbled across people voicing the undesirable aspects of the new Leverguns--and they too are distancing themselves from this forum.
I used to look forward to logging on, researching rifles, learning reloading tidbits, asking for advice, enjoying a bit of brotherhood. But no longer.
I was preparing to learn to post photos to help in asking or answering questions. No longer.
On our living room wall hangs a beautiful photograph of my youngest son's first deer, shot with his Great-great grandfather's Winchester. I'd been feeling I had let down members by not posting it to share. No Longer. With this new attitude around here, it's likely members would disparage and profess satisfyingly into negativism my son, the deer, the idea that such a rifle could kill such a deer, the type of deer stated in the post vs. the type of deer you perceive with your expert eye, the location, the load, the authenticity of the photograph because the shadow from the antler is obviously plastic! Well, I guess you catch my drift. That photo is sacred to me. The hunt was sacred. I'll not offer it for slaughter here.
An important lesson I learned from my students is to not persecute nor to berate an entire group for the discourtesies of a few. I guess I'm fed up enough after the "screw" post that I am disregarding this lesson.
So, for those of you who conduct yourselves with honor and integrity on this forum, I apologize for this barrage. It certainly is not fair to you for me to voice my loss in this manner.
I intend to bow out now from this forum for a while, at least until I change my view of the atmosphere here, or until I can participate without adding to the sewage.
EDIT:
Well, a curtain call (maybe).
There have been 50 replies to this post now, and I will say thank you. Some of you have read and do understand what I'm getting at.
Homefront says it succinctly and accurately: "Again, OT or not, it's the attitude."
It's the ATTITUDE. It's getting too negative for me. I have no concern about OTs. I don't expect this to be a Warm and Fuzzy Fairie Tale Forum. I don't care what the cause of the animosity is. People are posting in disservice to others.
This used to be a forum of folks who conducted themselves with integrity--many of you are still here. I have great respect for you and have logged on just to read your words--to share in Life's changes with you.
But the forum is tainted by not-so-honorable posters. Whatever their reasons for taking the good and corrupting it, I choose to not be a part of their muddling. Too many closed-minded pontifications without much thought beyond initial uninformed reactions. Some of it is appearing to be bigotry--I won't help to foster that, even in posting innocently and having someone reply with prejudice/blind, negative ignorance.
ATTITUDE: It doesn't matter that this is a bit better/a lot better than other forums--Which would you choose, smashing your thumb with a hammer or smashing it with flat five pound rock?--doesn't matter. The outcome is the same. The forum is changing in an unattractive manner.
It's ATTITUDE. Not weather. Not OTs. Not politics/elections. Not the demise of "sunshine and roses." Not novices nor true gurus. Not because there is a burr up my britches--I've already checked for that. Not because the honeymoon is over--I've been here quite a while. Not because this forum is open to millions of people.
ATTITUDE: The forum has become a launching point of negative attitude at the expense of good will. Therefore, I choose to distance myself from the death of civility--my perception of it, no one else's view of it. I chose to not participate in the rot that is permeating even innocent posts.
"Thank You"--to those of you have read the post and understood its meaning--and to those of you who have offered their support. And to those of you too who gave comment--even if I viewed your help as off-track.
(As you can see, I'm an editing fool--always have been!)
Just a short while back, many of us contributed to a hunt that graced three men's lives, as well as, offering to all members of this forum feelings of good will and that wonder which touches those who give.
Then came another chance to step up--more money to keep the forum operating. I have yet to see the results of people's generosity, but I suspect a sufficient amount poured in. (I'm feeling these days that I threw my money into fostering a dying forum.)
Some of us know what each others' families are like.
Members share heart-felt wishes and soul-felt prayers.
Stories are viewed for the sake of sharing life--at least they used to be.
Lately, it seems things cannot be shared without the stamp of approval of "experts," editors, lie detectors, and a multitude of crystal balls all of whom really don't know what they are talking about, or who should finally just back-off for a bit and let others appreciate sharing on this forum.
I, too, broke last week from letting the stuff flow downhill on its own. I jumped in and spread a goodly share of ill will.
Just a few threads to show a bit of what I mean:
A photo of a fellow with a monstrous cougar, catamount, puma, painter, panther, she-lion--there are at least fifteen more names for this kitty. It appeared on the surface that a man was proud of the cat he had harvested, but beneath the surface, it became a sham. Members of this forum pecked away at the topic (which needed no pecking, did not ask for pecking) pecked until the mood of the post and any sacredness regarding the man's hunt had been successfully soured.
I had complimented another member in a round-a-bout way on his knowledge of reloading/tools. He took it as an affront. I'm wondering if two months ago he would have been in the frame of mind to misinterpret my regard for him? Is the attitude changing on this forum?
That business about being smarter than an 8th Grader from 1895--The quick turn from talking about the test to bashing America's current education system, educators, and especially today's students.
There is another one tonight--the post that should be honoring veterans. Another of our heroes is dead. But no, don't allow a discussion of their sacrifice. Don't allow us to feel for the men and women who gave so much. Rather, step into the conversation with more of your generalizations, your expertise gained from where?, and bash the stuff out of a group of people or a system of which you are ignorant.----Now, some will say, "Oh, that LeverBar, he's a retired teacher, and he is just too sensitive when we point out faults of the education system." There they would be wrong. I worked in the system; I know just how screwed up it is. But you who are spewing in this forum about it, discounting the.... Enough of me here.
Then there is the "sabotaged screw." (No, it is not about a grand fornication interrupted.) People are going every which way on that one.
That is enough for me to begin to show where a portion of my disillusionment with this forum is coming from.
I'm not the only one who is waking to the difference in Leverguns from what it used to be. On another forum, I stumbled across people voicing the undesirable aspects of the new Leverguns--and they too are distancing themselves from this forum.
I used to look forward to logging on, researching rifles, learning reloading tidbits, asking for advice, enjoying a bit of brotherhood. But no longer.
I was preparing to learn to post photos to help in asking or answering questions. No longer.
On our living room wall hangs a beautiful photograph of my youngest son's first deer, shot with his Great-great grandfather's Winchester. I'd been feeling I had let down members by not posting it to share. No Longer. With this new attitude around here, it's likely members would disparage and profess satisfyingly into negativism my son, the deer, the idea that such a rifle could kill such a deer, the type of deer stated in the post vs. the type of deer you perceive with your expert eye, the location, the load, the authenticity of the photograph because the shadow from the antler is obviously plastic! Well, I guess you catch my drift. That photo is sacred to me. The hunt was sacred. I'll not offer it for slaughter here.
An important lesson I learned from my students is to not persecute nor to berate an entire group for the discourtesies of a few. I guess I'm fed up enough after the "screw" post that I am disregarding this lesson.
So, for those of you who conduct yourselves with honor and integrity on this forum, I apologize for this barrage. It certainly is not fair to you for me to voice my loss in this manner.
I intend to bow out now from this forum for a while, at least until I change my view of the atmosphere here, or until I can participate without adding to the sewage.
EDIT:
Well, a curtain call (maybe).
There have been 50 replies to this post now, and I will say thank you. Some of you have read and do understand what I'm getting at.
Homefront says it succinctly and accurately: "Again, OT or not, it's the attitude."
It's the ATTITUDE. It's getting too negative for me. I have no concern about OTs. I don't expect this to be a Warm and Fuzzy Fairie Tale Forum. I don't care what the cause of the animosity is. People are posting in disservice to others.
This used to be a forum of folks who conducted themselves with integrity--many of you are still here. I have great respect for you and have logged on just to read your words--to share in Life's changes with you.
But the forum is tainted by not-so-honorable posters. Whatever their reasons for taking the good and corrupting it, I choose to not be a part of their muddling. Too many closed-minded pontifications without much thought beyond initial uninformed reactions. Some of it is appearing to be bigotry--I won't help to foster that, even in posting innocently and having someone reply with prejudice/blind, negative ignorance.
ATTITUDE: It doesn't matter that this is a bit better/a lot better than other forums--Which would you choose, smashing your thumb with a hammer or smashing it with flat five pound rock?--doesn't matter. The outcome is the same. The forum is changing in an unattractive manner.
It's ATTITUDE. Not weather. Not OTs. Not politics/elections. Not the demise of "sunshine and roses." Not novices nor true gurus. Not because there is a burr up my britches--I've already checked for that. Not because the honeymoon is over--I've been here quite a while. Not because this forum is open to millions of people.
ATTITUDE: The forum has become a launching point of negative attitude at the expense of good will. Therefore, I choose to distance myself from the death of civility--my perception of it, no one else's view of it. I chose to not participate in the rot that is permeating even innocent posts.
"Thank You"--to those of you have read the post and understood its meaning--and to those of you who have offered their support. And to those of you too who gave comment--even if I viewed your help as off-track.
(As you can see, I'm an editing fool--always have been!)
Last edited by LeverBar on Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 5493
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:23 pm
- Location: Batesville,Arkansas
LeverBar, I sure do hope none of my post has been part of your problem here. I don't like to think that this bunch is mean hearted enough to run someone off because they seem to disagree on a few things. The Lord made us all different.
JerryB II Corinthians 3:17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
JOSHUA 24:15
JOSHUA 24:15
It's been along hard winter, we haven't had one of these for many many years. Gas,diesel,propane, natural gas, heating oil and electricity are at all time record highs, and chewin the hell out of peoples budgets. The presidential election in November is going to be a choose the least worst looser, as none of the above will be an option on the ballot. The war goes on with no real end insight, and the daily tension from wondering if the terrorist are going to hit again is taking its toll. lots and lots of things to keep folks on edge, that they have little to no control over, and no rest from.
Folks are just cabinfevered, and grumpy about everything, on every board.
There's not much different here than on the old board, just a different format.
Soon the weather will be getting better , and folks will get to go do more things and lighten up a bit.
Have a good vacation.
Folks are just cabinfevered, and grumpy about everything, on every board.
There's not much different here than on the old board, just a different format.
Soon the weather will be getting better , and folks will get to go do more things and lighten up a bit.
Have a good vacation.
OK, I can't stand the suspense! Please post the picture of your youngest son's first deer, shot with his Great-great grandfather's Winchester. Then take a break from here. You will soon realize that we're not as bad as you're thinking now and you'll jump right back in!
Have you hugged your rifle today?
- horsesoldier03
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:32 pm
- Location: Kansas
I can understand some of your feelings, sometimes things get off topic just a bit. I personally dont take this to be malicious. Its just something is stated that spurs a thought and that person feels to act and share their thoughts as we all do.
You have to admit one thing, this would be a pretty boring place if we all sat around nodding heads in agreement! Personally I enjoy the all feedback wheather it comes from the scholars and profesors with educated thoughts as well as comments from every day joes and the occasional villiage idiot. I am sure there will be those that view my comments to fall into the last of the catagories that were previously mentioned.
You have to admit one thing, this would be a pretty boring place if we all sat around nodding heads in agreement! Personally I enjoy the all feedback wheather it comes from the scholars and profesors with educated thoughts as well as comments from every day joes and the occasional villiage idiot. I am sure there will be those that view my comments to fall into the last of the catagories that were previously mentioned.
The tone here has changed, largely due to a few of the newer contributers.
I'm spending more and more time elsewhere.
That's a shame because this used to be a great place, due to the quality of the men.
Some kind of "ignore" button would be a huge help.
"...all that shimmers in this world is sure to fade away again."
I'm spending more and more time elsewhere.
That's a shame because this used to be a great place, due to the quality of the men.
Some kind of "ignore" button would be a huge help.
"...all that shimmers in this world is sure to fade away again."
Last edited by homefront on Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I hope the Leverguns community makes it through this, because it's been a huge friend to me. I've learned a lot about the history and workings of leverguns, the subtleties of hunting, and lots of other things.
I'm relatively new here, but I'm not a young'un. I don't live deep enough in the woods, and I'm not a good enough hunter to post pictures. (I do have a 99, though! ) So, with my meager credentials, may I suggest that you take a puff off your pipe, and ponder your own question for a spell.
It may be the times... there are lots of frustrated people out here, wondering if the next few years will see previously unimaginable regulation of many aspects of our lives. That sentiment may be revealed indirectly.
New people learn from the old hands. It's easier for everyone to be positive if there are some senior people setting the example.
Hope ya'll persevere, and hang together!
I'm relatively new here, but I'm not a young'un. I don't live deep enough in the woods, and I'm not a good enough hunter to post pictures. (I do have a 99, though! ) So, with my meager credentials, may I suggest that you take a puff off your pipe, and ponder your own question for a spell.
It may be the times... there are lots of frustrated people out here, wondering if the next few years will see previously unimaginable regulation of many aspects of our lives. That sentiment may be revealed indirectly.
New people learn from the old hands. It's easier for everyone to be positive if there are some senior people setting the example.
Hope ya'll persevere, and hang together!
- Andrew
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2043
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:30 pm
- Location: Southern Missouri
+1.horsesoldier03 wrote:I can understand some of your feelings, sometimes things get off topic just a bit. I personally dont take this to be malicious. Its just something is stated that spurs a thought and that person feels to act and share their thoughts as we all do.
I kinda looked back at the different posts we got floatin' recently though,and I can see where Leverbar is getting his impression. As for others(read as non-regulars) getting the same impression, well, perception is reality.
I am not gonna make apologies for anything though, cause as a whole this forum is head and shoulders above others I have been member to. And I really mean that.
Personally, I like seeing a post run the spread. You know, everything from "I love it" to "I hate it". That's just me.
Last edited by Andrew on Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
All I can say is I been hanging round here since 03 or 04 & some names have changed but not much else. This forum, like most, has alot of off topic conversations, mostly driven by the events of the times.
We are involved in several conflicts across the globe, the economy is faltering & theres an election upcoming. These topics & many more will pop up in any group of adults conversing. We love guns but we care about the world around us too!
We are involved in several conflicts across the globe, the economy is faltering & theres an election upcoming. These topics & many more will pop up in any group of adults conversing. We love guns but we care about the world around us too!
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 28220
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
+1 - which is why this is the only forum I frequent. I figure I just got darn lucky and hit the classiest joint in town on the first try. If the only thing we ever talked about was firearms - even the leverguns I love - I doubt I'd first but once every week or so. It is the flow of fine stories, historical observations, prayer requests, personal triumphs and tragedies, humor and yes, politics - all from the finest group of fellows on the web that keeps me here. It is a stress-relief in an otherwise all-too stressful day. I value the wisdom demonstrated here each day - and the comradarie. Sometimes it gets pointed, and I don't always agree, but then again, I don't have to continue reading posts nor answer those, and there is a plethora of great stuff to go through here, so why worry?Leverdude wrote:All I can say is I been hanging round here since 03 or 04 & some names have changed but not much else. This forum, like most, has alot of off topic conversations, mostly driven by the events of the times.
We are involved in several conflicts across the globe, the economy is faltering & theres an election upcoming. These topics & many more will pop up in any group of adults conversing. We love guns but we care about the world around us too!
A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Good luck to you Leverbar - happy hunting and safe trails!
I noticed the same change in the atmosphere also, thought it was just my perception,but I think not. It is kinda sad because I was always impressed by how pleasant this site was, free of the ill will I find most other places, oh well....homefront wrote:The tone here has changed, largely due to a few of the newer contributers.
I'm spending more and more time elsewhere.
That's a shame because this used to be a great place, due to the quality of the men.
Some kind of "ignore" button would be a huge help.
"...all that shimmers in this world is sure to fade away again."
Leverbar, you are correct. I dont post on here near as much and I dont partake of too many topics anymore. From what this forum started out as in '04, it has gone downhill with a lot of the new posters. There are some good guys on here and then there are some "holier than thou A-holes" that think they know everything about guns and ammo. I sift thru the stuff and keep moving. Some topics never get opened by me when i see who started it.
I am a salty, old, retired Chief Petty Officer who is not impressed by much.
"We're surrounded, that simplifies our situation." Chesty Puller
Member of Marlin Firearms forum '02-'04
Member of Marlin Talk forum '04-?
Member of original Leverguns forum '04-'07
Member of new Leverguns forum '07-?
"We're surrounded, that simplifies our situation." Chesty Puller
Member of Marlin Firearms forum '02-'04
Member of Marlin Talk forum '04-?
Member of original Leverguns forum '04-'07
Member of new Leverguns forum '07-?
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Don McDowell mentioned cabin fever. I'd have to say that I, too, have noticed a few posts from time to time that would have been better if the person had thought a bit longer on them before posting. However, I tend to cut people some slack, figuring everyone says things sometimes that don't reflect a lot of thought and consideration.
Here's my solution: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 3406#43406
Here's my solution: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 3406#43406
I know what you mean, Leverbar.
I recently read a post that seemed pretty negative to me:
People just can't seem to focus.
I recently read a post that seemed pretty negative to me:
And honestly, I can't say that that he doesn't have a point. There have been several complaints about the conversations of late not focusing on leverguns and shooting related subjects.Gerber22 wrote:Waah, waah, waah, and waah.
We don't talk about just what I like, and my panties are in a wad.
All these dummies should only play the games I like, the same way as me. Dumb stupid heads.
All my friends are gone and I'm going home.
People just can't seem to focus.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
Attitudes are contagious, whether positive or negative. I've seen these forums go in cycles, usually they come back around to being a positive experience for most of the members. I think that will happen here. I personally try not to pay much attention to the political posts. It is hard sometimes to correctly interpret a person's post when their not in the room with you. We lose a great deal of connectivity here on the internet and sometimes only the negative or perceived negative comes through. But all in all, I've never seen a forum like this where some many people request and receive prayers from other members, and that has to be a huge positive. If the majority of members make an effort to make positive and constructive posts then this forum will thrive. Don't give up anyone, there is more to talk about than just leverguns.
I'll offer an observation...I think the forum has declined since we moved, and maybe as a result of the move. Here is some speculation:
Some regulars got frustrated with the "it's up; it's down" of the old forum
We were posting on two different forums, and lost thread continuity, so it became frustrating
Less people were posting on the new forum, with fewer new threads, so people didn't check it as frequently as they used to
Too many stickies on page one before we get to new threads
Although I like most features of the new forum (such as hitting the next page rather than a pull down menu to advance), something about the color, scheme, font, etc. isn't as appealing as the old forum.
We lost access to years of great data and threads by experts, that we could peruse and build on. Now, after having done the, "what's the best load for my..." thread extensively on the old forum, people don't want to invest the time to respond -- again.
More new faces and less of the old guard -- we need to learn and adjust to each other again.
And lastly, what many of you have already said -- cabin fever, and the primaries (and our frustration with the politics and candidates) are now foremost in our minds, not shooting.
Where I used to come here several times a day, now I come once a day or every couple of days. The number and kinds of threads just aren't as interesting as they used to be. Having said that, there are still quite a few of the "old style" threads around that I enjoy, and most every one here is a gentleman, with old school values, which are in short supply nowadays. It's still my favorite forum.
Some regulars got frustrated with the "it's up; it's down" of the old forum
We were posting on two different forums, and lost thread continuity, so it became frustrating
Less people were posting on the new forum, with fewer new threads, so people didn't check it as frequently as they used to
Too many stickies on page one before we get to new threads
Although I like most features of the new forum (such as hitting the next page rather than a pull down menu to advance), something about the color, scheme, font, etc. isn't as appealing as the old forum.
We lost access to years of great data and threads by experts, that we could peruse and build on. Now, after having done the, "what's the best load for my..." thread extensively on the old forum, people don't want to invest the time to respond -- again.
More new faces and less of the old guard -- we need to learn and adjust to each other again.
And lastly, what many of you have already said -- cabin fever, and the primaries (and our frustration with the politics and candidates) are now foremost in our minds, not shooting.
Where I used to come here several times a day, now I come once a day or every couple of days. The number and kinds of threads just aren't as interesting as they used to be. Having said that, there are still quite a few of the "old style" threads around that I enjoy, and most every one here is a gentleman, with old school values, which are in short supply nowadays. It's still my favorite forum.
"From birth 'til death...we travel between the eternities." -- Print Ritter in Broken Trail
I agree with alnitak. There are less lever threads than the old forum and there is just something about the color i dont like. Having said that though. I have tried several other forums and find them distictly lacking in the comraderie of this forum. I still feel that we are like family though i have never met any of you in person. I feel respect here and this forum seems to always have guys online while others seem to drag for days until someone posts. Anyway I hope sincerely that you change your mind and stay.
Boys, take heart ,it's not just this forum its all of them that I frequent.The shiloh board has almost the same thread topic going.Greybeards board always has someone upset on it .Like was said above the disheartening topic of politics and politicians ignoring us
seems to be the common thread throughout.As soon as it warms up a little and we have something to do other than so much monitor time ,it'll calm down. until then take this
seems to be the common thread throughout.As soon as it warms up a little and we have something to do other than so much monitor time ,it'll calm down. until then take this
I have posted on various gun-related boards since 1996, and can vouch for "seasonal grumpiness" that occurs this time of year.
Also, there are some boards that seem to thrive on hate, discontent, and confrontation. For example, AR15.com is not for the thin-skinned.
Although having joined at the old board a few years ago or more, I'm still a newbie. One of the main reasons that I became more active here is due to the comparativly respectful, easy-going nature of Leverguns.com, and my rekindled interest in my own lever rifles. The other reason for my increased activity at Leverguns is the fact that I'm tired of all the hate, discontent, and confrontation that is rampant at other boards.
One unfortunate effect of message boards is the lack of visual and aural emotional input that we humans subconsciously rely on for getting "the full story" of what a person says and more importantly why he says it. Little smiley faces can only go so far to communicate the "tone" of a post, and a poster has to remember to use them, too.
Although I've been shooting since 1959 and a Marine armorer from '72 ot '86, I have so, so much to learn about the subject. This is a great place to learn. As a relative newbie here, I'm not about stepping on people's toes. Here's a open invitation to everyone to PM me for a clarification or callout if I ever type without thinking.
Leverguns is like a breath of fresh air, and it is evolving for the reasons stated above. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here provided by a tremendous group of great folks. That the forum platform is stable now should help things, IMO.
Noah
Also, there are some boards that seem to thrive on hate, discontent, and confrontation. For example, AR15.com is not for the thin-skinned.
Although having joined at the old board a few years ago or more, I'm still a newbie. One of the main reasons that I became more active here is due to the comparativly respectful, easy-going nature of Leverguns.com, and my rekindled interest in my own lever rifles. The other reason for my increased activity at Leverguns is the fact that I'm tired of all the hate, discontent, and confrontation that is rampant at other boards.
One unfortunate effect of message boards is the lack of visual and aural emotional input that we humans subconsciously rely on for getting "the full story" of what a person says and more importantly why he says it. Little smiley faces can only go so far to communicate the "tone" of a post, and a poster has to remember to use them, too.
Although I've been shooting since 1959 and a Marine armorer from '72 ot '86, I have so, so much to learn about the subject. This is a great place to learn. As a relative newbie here, I'm not about stepping on people's toes. Here's a open invitation to everyone to PM me for a clarification or callout if I ever type without thinking.
Leverguns is like a breath of fresh air, and it is evolving for the reasons stated above. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience here provided by a tremendous group of great folks. That the forum platform is stable now should help things, IMO.
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2569
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm
Re: Nearly time to take a bow--OUT. Forum is changing.
Well, looks like my post on Jeremy's thread may have sent you over the edge. Sorry to see you go, but I am equally not sorry for speaking my honest mind and pulling the curtain back on what you apparently found an unpleasant reality.LeverBar wrote:There is another one tonight--the post that should be honoring veterans. Another of our heroes is dead. But no, don't allow a discussion of their sacrifice. Don't allow us to feel for the men and women who gave so much. Rather, step into the conversation with more of your generalizations, your expertise gained from where?, and bash the stuff out of a group of people or a system of which you are ignorant.
As for your characterization above of me and my comments: It was not a generalization, but very specific. And my expertise? Like yours probably (since neither of us were "there"), gained from significant study and research over many years. I did not bash anyone, nor am I ignorant in the least of this episode in history and the people involved.
I have nothing against that generation or the military. I am a former Marine NCO, myself, and I recently lost a grandfather who was in the 15th Air Force during the war. I also have a great uncle still living who is a fellow Marine and was in the Iwo Jima landings, among others.
In closing, I hope you change your mind and swing back around before long.
All the best,
Scott
- deerwhacker444
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1300
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:12 pm
- Location: Oklahoma
Let me be the first to extend an Olive branch to all my fellow levergunners (and non-levergunners) out there on the cyber super-highway.
Everybody say "Aaaahhhhh,.. aint that cute"..!
Now, let's take a deep breath and join hands and hearken back to our boyscout days beside the campfire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfzwdphvsW0
And finally, lets spread joy and peace to the rest of the world!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8H5263jCGg
Seriously though, Leverguns is the best thing going. In these days of political strife it's nice to login here to get a break from the seemingly "real world" with people who share the same interests. We're a dying breed, lets not speed up the process by killing each other off.
When Calgon fails to take me away, it's nice to jump on here and lose my worries at least for a minute or two. There will always be people who are bothered by something, you can't appease everyone.
Hope everyone makes it thru another day.
Everybody say "Aaaahhhhh,.. aint that cute"..!
Now, let's take a deep breath and join hands and hearken back to our boyscout days beside the campfire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfzwdphvsW0
And finally, lets spread joy and peace to the rest of the world!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8H5263jCGg
Seriously though, Leverguns is the best thing going. In these days of political strife it's nice to login here to get a break from the seemingly "real world" with people who share the same interests. We're a dying breed, lets not speed up the process by killing each other off.
When Calgon fails to take me away, it's nice to jump on here and lose my worries at least for a minute or two. There will always be people who are bothered by something, you can't appease everyone.
Hope everyone makes it thru another day.
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men
shall possess the highest seats in Government,
our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots
to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams
shall possess the highest seats in Government,
our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots
to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 19243
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Yo dude, its called a "honeymoon" In the beginning, everything is great and as you really get to know people, you begin to get aggravated. Well, I just stopped analyzing. People are the same if your here or if Gibip.
If a post or response irritates me, I just move on. I don't have to live with these people.
Sometimes I will take lots of pictures and time to educate people on a better way of doing something and I get 3 responses. No big deal. I know a lot more than 3 people are benefiting from it.
Hang on dude and as always, stay cool--------------Sixgun
If a post or response irritates me, I just move on. I don't have to live with these people.
Sometimes I will take lots of pictures and time to educate people on a better way of doing something and I get 3 responses. No big deal. I know a lot more than 3 people are benefiting from it.
Hang on dude and as always, stay cool--------------Sixgun
-
- Levergunner
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:12 pm
- Location: Western Montana
FEELING WELCOME
This forum, like others of its kind, presents a microcosm of groups everywhere. Bubbas, guru wannabes, greenhorns, dreamers, agitators.
Newcomers think they're given short shrift by the old-timers. Old-timers think the new members are not giving respect due their years and number of posts. Consequence? Both build barriers or distance themselves when a little graciousness from both camps would build good will.
True, the veterans get a little clannish and talk amongst themselves which is natural and their right. Look at the SASS. No need to censure those inside jokes and pleasantries. However, it's hard to ignore the smugness that creeps in to the postings of some. Results? The new guys think the old guys are fossilized, cranky curmudgeons that should have been born 150 years ago, So, they begin frequenting and transferring their loyalties to forums that are less personal and more toned down with fewer mountain men telling "y' how y' need to think."
Currently, I belong to a local group where new blood is resented when the more mature attitude would be to welcome new approaches and ideas, helping refine and adapt those ideas that may have worked elsewhere. What's that? Sounds like your son's little league, your church, dog breeders group, homeowners association, rod and gun club, Elks lodge, etc.?
Some time ago, I got lambasted here for even hinting the half-cock safety may not be as safe as it was 50 years ago. That younger shooters might be better served by the "lawyered in" tang safeties. That I had observed a couple instances where hammers were accidentally eared back on full cock were jumped on. "The acts of careless gun handling, no self-respecting levergunner would ever. . . your post is impertinent, etc."
Well, my wife's family traces one of its branches back to John Browning. And what family lore we've heard about the old gentlemen--if alive today-- is that he would have likely modified his designs to incorporate both tang safeties and AE. I like to think he would have spurred new methods, materials, or expectations on to perfection, not spurned them. Such the infectious quality of his leadership or even genius. Yet some here are quick to beller: "If they ain't made my way, I ain't buyin' 'em."
I've decided to guarded with my posts here and to refrain largely. Think I'll just read most, then post on other gun forums in the main.
Newcomers think they're given short shrift by the old-timers. Old-timers think the new members are not giving respect due their years and number of posts. Consequence? Both build barriers or distance themselves when a little graciousness from both camps would build good will.
True, the veterans get a little clannish and talk amongst themselves which is natural and their right. Look at the SASS. No need to censure those inside jokes and pleasantries. However, it's hard to ignore the smugness that creeps in to the postings of some. Results? The new guys think the old guys are fossilized, cranky curmudgeons that should have been born 150 years ago, So, they begin frequenting and transferring their loyalties to forums that are less personal and more toned down with fewer mountain men telling "y' how y' need to think."
Currently, I belong to a local group where new blood is resented when the more mature attitude would be to welcome new approaches and ideas, helping refine and adapt those ideas that may have worked elsewhere. What's that? Sounds like your son's little league, your church, dog breeders group, homeowners association, rod and gun club, Elks lodge, etc.?
Some time ago, I got lambasted here for even hinting the half-cock safety may not be as safe as it was 50 years ago. That younger shooters might be better served by the "lawyered in" tang safeties. That I had observed a couple instances where hammers were accidentally eared back on full cock were jumped on. "The acts of careless gun handling, no self-respecting levergunner would ever. . . your post is impertinent, etc."
Well, my wife's family traces one of its branches back to John Browning. And what family lore we've heard about the old gentlemen--if alive today-- is that he would have likely modified his designs to incorporate both tang safeties and AE. I like to think he would have spurred new methods, materials, or expectations on to perfection, not spurned them. Such the infectious quality of his leadership or even genius. Yet some here are quick to beller: "If they ain't made my way, I ain't buyin' 'em."
I've decided to guarded with my posts here and to refrain largely. Think I'll just read most, then post on other gun forums in the main.
+2 on Kirk D's solution. I also hearby solemly swear to stay away from political stuff and to be less grumpy. Also, to be honest, I do intend to give some dough to the site but am strapped for cash at the moment. It will happen but I am er...overextended. I have been posting since 2001 and have always enjoyed the site immensely. Thanks to all for your contributions.
PS: Deerwhacker444 wrote:
"Seriously though, Leverguns is the best thing going. In these days of political strife it's nice to login here to get a break from the seemingly "real world" with people who share the same interests. We're a dying breed, lets not speed up the process by killing each other off. "
Amen!!!!!
PS: Deerwhacker444 wrote:
"Seriously though, Leverguns is the best thing going. In these days of political strife it's nice to login here to get a break from the seemingly "real world" with people who share the same interests. We're a dying breed, lets not speed up the process by killing each other off. "
Amen!!!!!
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Yeah, and if G_d thought more about frogs he'd give 'em big feathery wings.... And what family lore we've heard about the old gentlemen--if alive today-- is that he would have likely modified his designs to incorporate both tang safeties and AE.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
- gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17682
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
I know that not everyone here sings from the same hymn book, you only have to mention "CATS" to see that! But I find even the grumpy posters to be worth listening to, if only for a different take on things.
How else are we to know what others think and feel if we never hear them?
There is a wealth of information and kindness to be found on this forum so I for one hope to remain to learn and laugh equally!
How else are we to know what others think and feel if we never hear them?
There is a wealth of information and kindness to be found on this forum so I for one hope to remain to learn and laugh equally!
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32800
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
We can all try to keep posts more 'gun related' but the reality is that there are lots of associated hobbies MOST of us have (hunting, fishing, military history, aviation, knives and other outdoor tools, etc.) that we're going to occasionally share. Purists may not like those posts, but I find them of occasional interest, and if not, I just skip them.
Likewise, guns are affected by, and cause, lots of political and social activities, and we're always going to have that on our collective minds. Maybe we shouldn't think about, or talk about, those things, but when over half the presidential candidates are talking about banning the guns we like to post about, we'd better not ignore it. Same with our schools; kids ARE being taught that having a .30-30 makes you 'bad' - so we ignore those things at our own peril, whether 'depressing' or not.
Like anything else, if you don't like those posts, it seems reasonable to just skip them. I skip some of the GUN related ones if they are about a type of gun I don't own or care about.
Kind of reminds me about the perpetual letter-writers to Guns & Ammo and American Handgunner and Guns magazines - too many articles on this or that, and not enough on their favorite topic.
This IS a leverguns site, but if the ONLY posts were strictly about leverguns, and never touched on the political, historic, social, or other aspects that may be 'controversial' there would not be many posts.
Make another 'emoticon' for a 'GLARE' and we can all post it in response to the posts we are upset by; that's what you'd do if someone at the local gun club raised his hand and spoke inappropriately off-topic; you wouldn't just 'quit the club' over it, now would you?
P.S. - I just read Yaz's "Carpenter" post - now that is most definitely NOT "Leverguns" - but it IS a great post. That's part of what makes this site more FUN than most other 'gun' sites. If we can't post a cartoon about an outhouse, then really, what IS this world, and website, coming to...?
Likewise, guns are affected by, and cause, lots of political and social activities, and we're always going to have that on our collective minds. Maybe we shouldn't think about, or talk about, those things, but when over half the presidential candidates are talking about banning the guns we like to post about, we'd better not ignore it. Same with our schools; kids ARE being taught that having a .30-30 makes you 'bad' - so we ignore those things at our own peril, whether 'depressing' or not.
Like anything else, if you don't like those posts, it seems reasonable to just skip them. I skip some of the GUN related ones if they are about a type of gun I don't own or care about.
Kind of reminds me about the perpetual letter-writers to Guns & Ammo and American Handgunner and Guns magazines - too many articles on this or that, and not enough on their favorite topic.
This IS a leverguns site, but if the ONLY posts were strictly about leverguns, and never touched on the political, historic, social, or other aspects that may be 'controversial' there would not be many posts.
Make another 'emoticon' for a 'GLARE' and we can all post it in response to the posts we are upset by; that's what you'd do if someone at the local gun club raised his hand and spoke inappropriately off-topic; you wouldn't just 'quit the club' over it, now would you?
P.S. - I just read Yaz's "Carpenter" post - now that is most definitely NOT "Leverguns" - but it IS a great post. That's part of what makes this site more FUN than most other 'gun' sites. If we can't post a cartoon about an outhouse, then really, what IS this world, and website, coming to...?
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
I joined Leverguns in 2003.I have been on this site practically every day since.I have learned a lot more here than I ever thought imaginable.It has changed a little,everything changes,but this is the best place on the web to talk,learn,hang out and so on.The generosity and compassion on this board is unlike anywhwere else.Some have mentioned cabin fever which I believe is somewhat to blame for negativity this time of year,but also I think people are feeling the affects of rising prices,less jobs and general insecurity in their personal and professional lives,which I think is also part of some posters being a little short tempered.I don't post all that much,but I read a couple times a day and I think it is still a great bunch here on this site.The people that stir the pot will come and go,but the good people that make this forum what it is will be here for a long time.
I can understand the general gist of this topic, I have been upset about postings
and have probably upset others with mine here and there.
I'll share a trick of mine to help a bit
I log on to Leverguns.
I scroll down and check whats new.
Ooo that post looks interesting, so I open and enjoy.
Aww that post doesn't interest me, I don't open it.
Ooo this one looks good, I open it, oops, guess I was wrong I don't care for
this one, back to the list.
____________________________
Now about these "off topic" posts.
Most of them are very entertaining and I enjoy them myself. If they don't
look interesting I won't open them. (wouldn't wanna cause myself carpel tunnel by checking every darn posts now would I?)
OT-Marine Corps,Playboy,Offroad vehicles,Joke,Beer. Just TRY to keep me
from reading one of these
OT-Jogging,Salad shooter,Cake recipe. I'm a 260 lb. Polish farm boy who
wrestled and played football in school and was given an attitude in the Corps.
I'd like to meet the person who could make me read about these topics
Take it for what it's worth, but I LOVE this forum
and have probably upset others with mine here and there.
I'll share a trick of mine to help a bit
I log on to Leverguns.
I scroll down and check whats new.
Ooo that post looks interesting, so I open and enjoy.
Aww that post doesn't interest me, I don't open it.
Ooo this one looks good, I open it, oops, guess I was wrong I don't care for
this one, back to the list.
____________________________
Now about these "off topic" posts.
Most of them are very entertaining and I enjoy them myself. If they don't
look interesting I won't open them. (wouldn't wanna cause myself carpel tunnel by checking every darn posts now would I?)
OT-Marine Corps,Playboy,Offroad vehicles,Joke,Beer. Just TRY to keep me
from reading one of these
OT-Jogging,Salad shooter,Cake recipe. I'm a 260 lb. Polish farm boy who
wrestled and played football in school and was given an attitude in the Corps.
I'd like to meet the person who could make me read about these topics
Take it for what it's worth, but I LOVE this forum
Jeeps
Semper Fidelis
Pay attention to YOUR Bill of Rights, in this day and age it is all we have.
Semper Fidelis
Pay attention to YOUR Bill of Rights, in this day and age it is all we have.
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14890
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
LeverBar,
Hang in there we're all suffering from this season. Political and winter it's getting to us.
Take some time off maybe, but we need you. We've already lost or at least partially lost two of our more outspoken members; Junior and OldIronsights. This forum is diminished because of their leaving. And I miss them both.
So stick around.
Joe
Hang in there we're all suffering from this season. Political and winter it's getting to us.
Take some time off maybe, but we need you. We've already lost or at least partially lost two of our more outspoken members; Junior and OldIronsights. This forum is diminished because of their leaving. And I miss them both.
So stick around.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Most forums have a place for off-topic post like religion and politics. I believe this practice helps promote peace.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
"You come to the swamp, you better leave your skirt at the house"~Dave Canterbury~
I too feel there is a change in the forum lately. It used to be that there were a few stickies, a few OT's and a whole lot of posts with great Lever Gun discussion. now days the first page of posts is one third stickies, one half OT and 20 percent (okay, it does not add up to 100 percent, but it is close) lever gun discussion. I too would like to see the OT move to another page.
Always Drink Upstream From The Herd
- Old Savage
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 16793
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
- Location: Southern California
Sorry to hear you feel this way LeverBar.
I feel compelled to remind you, (and I'm surprised this glaring detail hasn't been mentioned yet,) that this is an INTERNET FORUM.
It may be the best one I have found in my dozen or so years of web surfing, but the truth is that this is still a really great place to come and read up. It's a great place to get info from a variety of individuals with varioius degrees of knowledge and expertise, especially regarding levergun maintenance and repair.
I for one have very much enjoyed being here, and when some chucklehead starts going way OT or down right depsaraging another member, I remind myself that this is an INTERNET FORUM, and sort of open to whoever asks permission to join up; not unlike a rod and gun club in that respect. I used to belong to a rod and gun club up in MA just for the shooting range. Of course, I fished the pond, but seldom went to meetings. The thing I learned is that it takes all kinds, and its easy to ignore most idjuts.
I say you are reading too much into this and now you have come out with a pretty serious yet entirely subjective view on the forum. You say it's changed for the worse.
It may go this way or that way, but I don't mind at all. I don't want to start sicking the Brain Police on OT posts or members who speak their minds, so long as it stays civil. Someone disagrees with you? Why throw up a wall and discount them entirely? There may be smething to learn from dissenting views, which is why we need to apreciate other opinions.
There is no rule that states if one posts a reply to a topic that the poster has to stay true to the original poster's sentiments. If a guy agrees or disagrees, he should be free to add to it -either way, so long as it's not a whine-fest and disparaging. Someone posted a dissenting viewpoint on the Iwo Jima thread. Big deal.
It's an INTERNET FORUM made up almost entirely of people's opinions...
You're gonna get this stuff from time to time.
I have enjoyed all of your contributions, and value you as a member here.
Please just cool off for a while and think about it.
Try not to let someone's opinion bring you down.
We are mere men, and prone to folly.
Everyone does the best they know how.
I feel compelled to remind you, (and I'm surprised this glaring detail hasn't been mentioned yet,) that this is an INTERNET FORUM.
It may be the best one I have found in my dozen or so years of web surfing, but the truth is that this is still a really great place to come and read up. It's a great place to get info from a variety of individuals with varioius degrees of knowledge and expertise, especially regarding levergun maintenance and repair.
I for one have very much enjoyed being here, and when some chucklehead starts going way OT or down right depsaraging another member, I remind myself that this is an INTERNET FORUM, and sort of open to whoever asks permission to join up; not unlike a rod and gun club in that respect. I used to belong to a rod and gun club up in MA just for the shooting range. Of course, I fished the pond, but seldom went to meetings. The thing I learned is that it takes all kinds, and its easy to ignore most idjuts.
I say you are reading too much into this and now you have come out with a pretty serious yet entirely subjective view on the forum. You say it's changed for the worse.
It may go this way or that way, but I don't mind at all. I don't want to start sicking the Brain Police on OT posts or members who speak their minds, so long as it stays civil. Someone disagrees with you? Why throw up a wall and discount them entirely? There may be smething to learn from dissenting views, which is why we need to apreciate other opinions.
There is no rule that states if one posts a reply to a topic that the poster has to stay true to the original poster's sentiments. If a guy agrees or disagrees, he should be free to add to it -either way, so long as it's not a whine-fest and disparaging. Someone posted a dissenting viewpoint on the Iwo Jima thread. Big deal.
It's an INTERNET FORUM made up almost entirely of people's opinions...
You're gonna get this stuff from time to time.
I have enjoyed all of your contributions, and value you as a member here.
Please just cool off for a while and think about it.
Try not to let someone's opinion bring you down.
We are mere men, and prone to folly.
Everyone does the best they know how.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4443
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:33 pm
- Location: Wyoming and Arizona
I like it here.
This is a great board, I only belong to 3 others, Rimfire, Varmints and Steelchickens. None of these boards tolerate any real nonsense and most people are respectful of others, even those with which they disagree. I sometimes lurk on one other board where the most vile comments are acceptable and usually generate other vile comments freely sprinkled with filthy language.
Yes, the membership of boards seems to change constantly, like everything else, but we all share a common interest. I hope nobody here will allow a couple of humbugs (known at Rimfire as "bellowing buttcracks ) ti run them off. These types stay for a while and drift away, leaving the core of the board to continue on.
Stick around, guy, the best is yet to come!!
This is a great board, I only belong to 3 others, Rimfire, Varmints and Steelchickens. None of these boards tolerate any real nonsense and most people are respectful of others, even those with which they disagree. I sometimes lurk on one other board where the most vile comments are acceptable and usually generate other vile comments freely sprinkled with filthy language.
Yes, the membership of boards seems to change constantly, like everything else, but we all share a common interest. I hope nobody here will allow a couple of humbugs (known at Rimfire as "bellowing buttcracks ) ti run them off. These types stay for a while and drift away, leaving the core of the board to continue on.
Stick around, guy, the best is yet to come!!