Slugged my 38-55 today

[38-55]

Just got done slugging the barrel of my Winchester 38-55 1894 (made in 1902).

The land grooves in the slug measure .3745 and the slug diameter measures .3785.

My questions for the experts are:

Does the rifling appear worn? .004 inches sound right?

Which bullet diameter should I order for reloading: .379 or .380? I'll be loading lead bullets with about 9 grains of Unique powder.

This is the first time I have slugged a barrel and have to admit I was nervous driving a chunk of lead done the old girls snout

Thanks in advance!
Rick

[Hobie]

Well, either .379" or .380" is going to work so far as the bore is concerned.

Might I ask, why this particular charge? Not picking, just want to know the reasoning, what people like and why, etc...

[Lefty Dude]

Not much powder for that large long case.

Most of us use, 4198, 5744 or RL-7.

[38-55]

I am going to reload some rounds just to plink with and don't want to take a chance on ruining the bore with hot jacketed rounds. Somewhere I read that 8 or 9 grains of Unique under a 255 gr lead bullet makes a good "cowboy" load. I am still open for suggestions but do have some Unique setting around that is looking for a good home.

[Wind]

Hey there 38-55 -- Hobie is right on the money as far as bullet diameter. Try them both and see which one shoots better. 9-10 grains of Unique will work well. My rifles prefer 10 grains. It's a great caliber, have fun. Best regards. Wind

[Hobie]

16 gr. IMR 4227 or 28 gr. IMR 3031 are also good loads at both the old power levels, "original" and "high velocity" and both work with cast bullets.

[jdad]

21gr of 4198 is real easy to shoot.

[arjunky]

I doubt if you will be able to chamber anthing bigger than .377, unless you have thinner brass or your throat has been opened in the chamber.
We've gotten by using wheelweight @ .377 bullet with 10 grains Unique, It will bump up and slug to fit.
I don't think you'll get anything harder to bump.

Byron

[Lefty Dude]

The best brass for 38-55 is Starline, with the thiner neck than Winchester.

I have 100 New Winchester 38-55 brass for sale. 2 bags of 50 each.

If any one is interested send me a PM.

My Rifle will only chamber the Starline brass with a .380" bullet. My bore slugs .3785"

I bought the Winchester before I slugged the bore, my bad.

[38-55]

Thanks for the heads up on the brass issue. I have Winchester and CIL brass. May be a problem with .379 lead?

How does one go about slugging the chamber? I have heard of this but can't figure out how it is done

I need to find a place that would sell me just a few bullets. I really hate to buy a gross of them and find out they won't work, especially with my old brass. I suppose I can buy some .379s and try the Winchester and CIL brass for chambering. If there is a problem I can buy some Starline brass and try that. Still not sure on a load yet. I'll do some more research.

[fordwannabe]

I can send you some 379s and some as cast from the lee mold if you'd like. How many do you want? I shot my frankenchester yesterday with several loads of unique and 3 different loads using 5744 and the 5744 had more poop and was more accurate, but that was my gun, not yours. These boolits are a 50/50 mix ww and pure lead but I had no leading at all yesterday. Tom

[marlinman93]

I use a load of 8-9 grs. Unique for my plinker loads also. Unique is not position sensitive, so works quite well in larger cases without any issues of hangfires, etc. Been using it for years in many of my old calibers.
My Schoyen Ballard actually shoots it's finest groups with 10. grs. Unique and a 255 gr. cast bullet from an old Ideal mold that is a stepped design .275-.278-.280-.282" I breechseat the bullet and then use a case loaded behind it.

[38-55]

Thanks again everyone and thanks to fordwannabe for the soon to be delivered bullet samples!

I'm going to load up a couple of .379s in both my Winchester and CIL brass and make sure there are no chambering issues. I'll let you know how it comes out.

Rick

[BenT]

If the 379's don't work I have some .380 , 255 gr bullets. I can send to you to try.

[38-55]

Thanks for the offer BenT. I'll keep the offer in mind!

[Charles]

I have a Sharps Borchard marked J.P. Lower - Denver Co. that was barreled to 38-55, way back when by Axel Peterson. It has a groove diameter of .381. I have no problem cambering rounds with .382 bullets.

Looking at the specs on the posters Winchester, I think I would want at least .380 on cast bullets. It has been many years since I have fired my Sharps, but 15/2400 over a 280 plain based bullets gave me 1" (one ragged hole) ten shot groups at 75 yards. The alloy was soft melted 38 Special factory wad cutter bullets hardened a bit with something, but I disremember what.

I sure would not accept as a fact that a round with a .380 bullet won't chamber, until I tried it.

[38-55]

Finally got around to loading up a dummy round with a .379 bullet and Imperial (CIL) brass. It won't chamber in my '94! Thanks Tom for sending me some .379s and saving me from buying a bunch that I can't use!

I measured a factory jacketed round that chambers fine against my test round and there is a .003 difference. I figure that I need to get .376 bullets to chamber properly. Reaming the chamber is not an option. Nor is thinner brass.

I'm thinking I may be ok with the .376 lead as my slug measured .3745 in the grooves. In my thinking the lands should still grab the lead enough to put a spin on the bullet. If I can find some softer lead bullets maybe they will bump up a bit also. I am only looking at loads that will produce around 1200 fps so leading may not be a problem.

Anyone have any input on my thoughts?

Thanks

Rick

[pokey]

Finally got around to loading up a dummy round with a .379 bullet and Imperial (CIL) brass. It won't chamber in my '94! Thanks Tom for sending me some .379s and saving me from buying a bunch that I can't use!

I measured a factory jacketed round that chambers fine against my test round and there is a .003 difference. I figure that I need to get .376 bullets to chamber properly. Reaming the chamber is not an option. Nor is thinner brass.

I'm thinking I may be ok with the .376 lead as my slug measured .3745 in the grooves. In my thinking the lands should still grab the lead enough to put a spin on the bullet. If I can find some softer lead bullets maybe they will bump up a bit also. I am only looking at loads that will produce around 1200 fps so leading may not be a problem.

Anyone have any input on my thoughts?

Thanks

Rick

take the decapper/expander out of your sizing die,
mount it in your press,
run your dummy-loaded case into the die,
put a LITTLE pressure on it,
take it out and try to chamber,
repeat until it will slide into the chamber of your rifle,
this sizes the brass and bullet together,
measure case mouth, this will be your max size to load to.

i do this with some loads in old brass, works ok.
the staline brass will help also.
good luck

[38-55]

Thanks Pokey, I'll give that a try. I did try to run it through the resizer die but felt it would get stuck so I chickened out. I'll try it a little at a time and check the chambering between tries. Good advice.

[Pop Watts]

I am learning a lot reading this.
Thanks for all of your posts on this subject.
I have 3 rifles in 38-55 and have not fired any yet.
Must get around to that soon.
Pop.

[JBledsoe]

.

You say that thinner brass is not an option? Why is that?
I like the 10 gr Unique under a 245 grain LaserCast .380. It runs about 1350 to 1400 fps in my 24 to 26 inch barrel guns. That's out of the "cowboy" range and it works well out to 400 to 600 yards. Is your brass head stamped 38-55 or 375 Win.? Big difference.

You may be on the right track, but going the wrong direction.

JB

[38-55]

Thinner brass is not an option because I am cheap!!!
I have about 60 empty 38-55 cases that are in good shape and would like to use them if I can.

I just ran my dummy cartridge into the resizer die again putting just a little pressure on it as suggested. The dummy round will now chamber! I'm now wondering if I was a little too aggressive with the crimp and actually bulged the neck slightly . The neck now measures .396 just behind the crimp. I am using RCBS Cowboy dies and using the seating die to also crimp. Maybe I should get a Lyman crimp die. Won't really know until I try another dummy round.

Do you all think I should stick with the .379 lead or should I order something a little smaller? The rifling appears to be .004 in this gun so I would think I could go a little smaller on the bullet. I know I need to actually load a few up and shoot them for accuracy but don't want to have to screw around with chambering issues. I suppose for what little I will be shooting I can just run them thru the resizer if they won't chamber

[Lefty Dude]

Your choice should be thin-necked starline brass. The brass you are using is thick at the neck. You will not get good accuracy with a .376" lead bullet, it just might just key-hole.

[vancelw]

Your choice should be thin-necked starline brass. The brass you are using is thick at the neck. You will not get good accuracy with a .376" lead bullet, it just might just key-hole.

3855 keyhole.jpg

That's what happened when I shot my Chief Crazy Horse with bullets sized .375.
My Lyman mould seems to drop them at .377 and I'm not sure that's going to be enough. I will run the bullets through a .379 sizer next time and see what happens if all I'm doing is lubing them. I hope I don't have to buy a new mould.

Good thread, guys. I'll know what to do now if mine won't chamber when I experiment. It shoots factory Winchester ammo great.

[geobru]

Some of us have already had to skin this cat with other obsolete calibers!

My 40-82 is a good example. The "factory" bore diameter is .406, my gun has a bore of .409, so I shoot a .410 bullet. I resize 45-90 Starline brass to 40-82, trim them to length and reload them. A .410 bullet will NOT chamber. What to do? I bought the Lee 3 jaw chuck and the insert so you can use it in a drill (~$15-20?). I put the loaded cartridge into the chuck, turn it in a drill, and use a file to take down the outside of the brass to about .430, so it will then chamber. You have to do this the first time the brass is reloaded, and as needed after that. I check the cartridges for fit after each reloading, and touch up any that are too tight. Is it a pain? Yes, but it beats reaming the chamber on a vintage gun, or shooting undersized bullets that will never be accurate.

For around ~$80 or so there is also a tool that you can buy to turn the inside of the neck to thin it to the correct thickness so a larger diameter bullet will chamber.

I would go with the .380 for a snug fit, and take down the brass until it chambers. Just my $0.02.

[JBledsoe]

Some of us have already had to skin this cat with other obsolete calibers!

My 40-82 is a good example. The "factory" bore diameter is .406, my gun has a bore of .409, so I shoot a .410 bullet. I resize 45-90 Starline brass to 40-82, trim them to length and reload them. A .410 bullet will NOT chamber. What to do? I bought the Lee 3 jaw chuck and the insert so you can use it in a drill (~$15-20?). I put the loaded cartridge into the chuck, turn it in a drill, and use a file to take down the outside of the brass to about .430, so it will then chamber. You have to do this the first time the brass is reloaded, and as needed after that. I check the cartridges for fit after each reloading, and touch up any that are too tight. Is it a pain? Yes, but it beats reaming the chamber on a vintage gun, or shooting undersized bullets that will never be accurate.

For around ~$80 or so there is also a tool that you can buy to turn the inside of the neck to thin it to the correct thickness so a larger diameter bullet will chamber.

I would go with the .380 for a snug fit, and take down the brass until it chambers. Just my $0.02.

I have been thru all that, too. I fought it for six months trying every combination, I even made a jig to turn the case necks down as you suggested. Then I discovered that Winchester 38-55 brass is thinner than 375 Win brass. Also found that it is longer than 375 brass. Then too, Starline makes a brass the is yet longer at 2.125.

Trying to be cheap is just that, and foolish, that fine old Winchester will never shoot until it is loaded correctly. If the OP just wants to make noise he may as well shoot blanks, that way he won't be disappointed.

.

[vancelw]

Trying to be cheap is just that, and foolish, that fine old Winchester will never shoot until it is loaded correctly. If the OP just wants to make noise he may as well shoot blanks, that way he won't be disappointed.

.

What's the point in being nasty about it?

[38-55]

Yeah, I take offense to that remark. My cheap comment was ment to be humorous, but I don't consider not wanting to waste good brass as being foolish either. I am just trying to find out the right way to reload for this rifle and thought I was on a class act board. I have received a lot of good information from what appears to be a bunch of good guys on this forum so I guess I will not let one comment discourage me.

[JFE]

You might also want to try using slightly shorter brass to get around your chambering issue. You can open up 30/30 brass and it will be quite thin at the neck and somewhat shorter too. When you load it you will need to seat the bullet out longer and crimp into a lube groove or use a Lee factory crimp die to achieve the correct OAL. This way you should be able to use the bullet diameter you require. As long as the bullet is a fairly tight fit in the throat the shorter brass has no real effect on accuracy.

FWIW I found that 6.5 gr of Red Dot behind a 250gr cast pill to be very accurate and with a velocity of around 1000 fps, it doesnt make a lot of noise.

[Lefty Dude]

I have 100 round of new Winchester 38-55 brass I bought before I received my Rifle. My bore slugs .379". With a Winchester brass test round and .380" bullet, it would chamber all but the last 1/10". I got my Starline brass and now shoot .381" pills, and they drop right in with no problem as before. I also had some CIL brass that was a gift from a fellow shooter, as with the Winchester the neck mouth is thick.

One of my Shooting Pards has a new Browning 85 in 38-55 his bore slugs .378". He must use Starling brass also. We bought 500 Starline cases and split the batch.

We both have New Winchester brass for sale.

I learned this tight neck lesson when I started shooting and reloading for my various 44-40's many years ago. We, who shoot Revolver 44-40's shy away from Remington brass big time.

[Old Savage]

Have you fellow thought of reaming the necks outside or in?

[Lefty Dude]

Have you fellow thought of reaming the necks outside or in?

Besides the neck, there are two case lengths for the 38-55, standard length and long for the single shots.

With Starline making the various 38-55 brass, neck turning is not necessary anymore.

[pokey]

I just ran my dummy cartridge into the resizer die again putting just a little pressure on it as suggested. The dummy round will now chamber!

if i were in your shoes [and i was/am ] i would load a few rounds
powder/primer/379 and squeeze 'em and see how they shoot. [experiments don't always work out right,
but we learn from them always]

[quote="38-55]Do you all think I should stick with the .379 lead , [/quote] yup.

[Sixgun]

Make it easy on yourself with the hard chambering with bullets that are a thou or so larger than the chamber will accept. Neck up a 30-30 case and seat the bullet to the proper OAL. Its all I use in a half dozen antique 38-55's. Its the same as using a 38 Spl. case in a .357 chamber. I've only been doing it for 40 years and several thousand rounds a year so with the limited experience, I can't vouch for it. -------------Sixgun

[JBledsoe]

.

"JBledsoe wrote:
Trying to be cheap is just that, and foolish, that fine old Winchester will never shoot until it is loaded correctly. If the OP just wants to make noise he may as well shoot blanks, that way he won't be disappointed. "

I am sorry, I meant no offense. Are you taking offense because I said that trying to go cheap is foolish? I tried to go cheap on brass with 375 Win brass. didn't work. Or that improper reloads were just making noise? My incorrect reloads (a .377 bullet in a .379 bore) made noise but would not hit a 2 ft square target at 25 yards. I may as well have been shooting blanks. I am just telling it as i see it because I have just gone thru this same exercise.

If telling it like it happened to me is offensive and nasty, Then you have my sincere apology.

.