OT bolt gun medium caliber question.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:17 pm

Because of a shoulder injury, I'm thinking of aquiring a medium caliber medium/light weight bolt gun. I'm thinking in the 257 Roberts, 260 Rem, 7mm Mauser, 7-08 power range. I take my dogs out in the hills walking every day and always have a rifle or carbine handy. I like having an easy 300 yards range, if not more, to cover them in case a bunch of coyotes showed up, (or other varmints) and good glass to help see in poor light. I've read of very good results with long range shooting(like out to 1200 yards)with the 260 rem and very streamlined bullets, so am liking this caliber range.

So, are there any strong opinions or experience with any of these rounds? My choice will be used for a walking gun, long range plinker out to 1200 yards, and perhaps varmint and deer hunting. I'm pretty old fashioned, even in my bolt guns. The 7mm Mauser is attractive, but way back I've heard of accuracy and throat erosion problems because of the long throats for the military and heavy hunting loads. Is this still a problem?

My first choices in actions would be a Ruger 77 (tang safety) or a Mauser action.

Thanks for any input.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:41 pm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=91736813

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:51 pm

Not quite what I had in mind, but thanks.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:59 pm

Stuck on a bolt gun huh ?

Try and find a nice Browning BLR in .243.

Levers are faster to operate than Bolts.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:59 pm

There was a time and place when medium bore meant a .366 or a .375. I guess it depends on what continent one finds himself. From what you have described I would look at the 7x57. But 1200yrds? No worries about about throat erosion as long as common smarts are employed. Newly manufactured arms are not necessarily throated around the old 175gr full patch round. Take a long look at the 7mm. Good luck in your search. 1886.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:12 pm

Have you checked out what Savage has on their site? They have the Stevens at a good price and they are tack drivers it is the old 110.

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

Ram Hammer · Post by **Ram Hammer** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:20 pm

Don't forget the other 260 cartridges. 6.5 X 55. I think Ruger made a 77 in that caliber. From the factory they are loaded down for the Mauser '96 Swede action but can be loaded up a little with modern bolt guns. Barnsness (SP?) has written a lot about this one.

There are some really classy European rifles in 6.5 X 54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

Bullets in 6.5 are available from 100 gr to 160.

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:22 pm

I have a ruger 77 in 7x57. I have a lot of rifles but this one has seen more use, (still not enough) then other hotter and more expendsive I have. It is low recoil, flat shooting and accurate. I tried different loads with it and oddly they all seem to hit to the same point of aim. I bought it new real cheap back in january of 1981 for 1/2 price on a clearance sale and I see I paid $190.06 out the door for it. I dont think I got took!

canonsix · Post by **canonsix** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:27 pm

+1 for the 260 or 6.5X55.The world record for 1000yd is held by a 260AI, the .264 is very much overlooked by US shooters.Check out the reloading manuals, Doug

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:51 pm

JReed wrote:Have you checked out what Savage has on their site? They have the Stevens at a good price and they are tack drivers it is the old 110.

http://www.savagearms.com/st_200short.htm

Why not a .308? It would take lots of dollar bills to part me from my Savage .308.

The newer Savages use a barrel nut for easy barrel swaps so you can have several options for calibers if you stay with the same COL and case head size.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:55 pm

Thanks for the input so far guys.

Yes, I'm pretty well stuck on a bolt gun for this.

This guy reports good results with the 260.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practica ... equipment/

I've done some other studying, and it was revealing to me that the 260 and 7-08 rounds have higher velocity and more energy at 1000 yards than the 308 does, and less drop. I've shot some longer range with the 30-06, but it isn't very comfortable to shoot '06 very much at this point because of the shoulder injury.

I'm not wanting to buy or build a dedicated extra-long range rifle, but would like to have a round and gun that will work well if/when I want or need to shoot long range, with moderate recoil. I guess it could be considered an intermediate caliber general purpose rifle that has good long range potential.

I just posted and saw the 308 question. I'm wanting something milder in recoil than the 308, but more power and range than a 22 centerfire.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:56 pm

heck you dont even need to keep with the same case head size you can get the right bolt heads from Midway along with the different bbls.

Malamute they make the Stevens in 7-08.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:58 pm

JReed wrote:heck you dont even need to keep with the same case head size you can get the right bolt heads from Midway along with the different bbls.

True, but I was thinking in terms of keeping it as simple as possible.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:04 pm

I've seen a number of the Savage rifles, and have several friends that are mightily impressed with theirs, but they just don't trip my trigger.

I've discussed actions with my gunsmith, and given my inclinations (somewhat traditional), he suggests the Ruger 77 action with a good trigger. He thinks they are under rated, and are a good stiff action. He likes them better than a Mauser. I also really like the tang safety on the earlier guns. Every Ruger 77 I've had has been a very good shooter.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:45 pm

A 257 Roberts is lighter recoiling than the others. I like the same bolts. If you can find one in 257 with the tang safety ( I have a # of the tangs ) get it or get a 6mm. Mine is great. If a 243 is not too light that would be great too.

Scott Young · Post by **Scott Young** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:47 pm

medium bore???

i was going to suggest a .35 rem in a bolt action. or a .358 win. loaded down. i have a .338 win mag that when loaded right doesn't kick too much, but the .338 federal piques my interest for a true mid bore that is mild on the shoulder. how about a 8mm mauser?

you will find a slow mid bore will do much more nicely on your shoulder than a hot quarter bore.

jbm1968 · Post by **jbm1968** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:48 pm

I am also a fan of the 6.5X55 for the uses you describe, the 260 Remington is pretty close to the same thing from what I understand. I have a couple of Swedish Mausers (which are probably not what you are looking for) and they are easy on the shoulder and very accurate. The 257 Roberts is another choice that would appeal to me.

rock-steady · Post by **rock-steady** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:53 am

I would recommend the 260 Remington. I shoot the 125gr Nosler Partitions with great results.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:00 am

Ditto to the 260 or 7/08. Both are great smaller calibers that don't kick and kill very well.

Johnny

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:52 am

.257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 260 Rem, 7x57, 7mm-08 -- go ahead and pick one because they are all good and will closely do the same job.

The .257 Roberts was used to good effect by W D M "Karamojo" Bell on large African game, and it was a popular cartridge in the US for most of the middle of the 20th century. Brass and ammo isn't a plentiful as it once was.

The 6.5x55's performance on game and its mild recoil are well documented. Anyone who's had any experience with this cartridge comes to love it. Personally, it's taken four deer with knockdown or near knockdown kills using 140 and 156 gr bullets. A good friend used the 156 gr RN Norma load on a Canadian black bear and that slug dropped the 450 lb animal where it stood over the bait (legal in Canada).

I tend to think of the 260 Remington as the "American" 6.5x55, seeing that the 260 uses a necked 308 case (51 mm long). So it can be regarded as a "6.5mm-08" or a "6.5x51" for all intents an purposes. Performance of the 260 is so close to that of the 6.5x55 that the two are practically indistinguishable.

The 7x57 is another medium cartridge with a long and respectable career and following. Born in the 93 Mauser and used by the Boers and Spanish to good effect, the cartridge made impressions on the British and Americans and prompted further cartridge development for their militaries. It has performance very close to that of the 6.5x55 and 260 Rem.

The 7mm-08 is nearly the same as the 7x57 except it's shorter in OAL and that allows it to be chambered in short-action rifles just like the 260 Rem. Since the pressure of the 308 case is higher than that of the 7x57 case, the 7mm-08 can be stoked a bit more if desired.

All that said, any of those cartridges can be used on the same class of animals with practically the same effect. IMO, I'd personally go with the chambering for which ammo is readily available in the brand/style of boltgun I was interested in. My personal preference would be a value-priced CZ boltgun in 6.5x55 only because it's one of my favorite cartridges. If a Remington in 260 were available at a price within budget, I'd just as easily go with it, too.

Just more lunatic ramblings,

Noah

k8bor · Post by **k8bor** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:13 pm

I have a .260 in an M77 and it is my favorite "bolt" caliber. Very low recoil extremely high sectional density, and the (2) white tails I've shot with it went down with the shot. You can load them real fast with the lighter bullets, (maybe down to 70 grainers?) or up to 160 grainers with the Hornady round noses. I actually think it might be the best "crossover" caliber of the whole bunch. There are a ton of good bullets in 6.5 also.

Bluehawk · Post by **Bluehawk** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:16 pm

MY experieince is a little limited in these calibers since I like the bigger ones .
I also have a 77 Ruger in 7x57 I have only fired three shots at game with that and have three killed deer Two were DRT .
I also have a Mauser in 257 Rbts Fired two shots at deer with that rifle . One DRT one ran about 45 yards .
Recoil is negligable on both Im shooting 140 Barnes TSXs in the 7x57 IM shotting 100 TSXs in the 257 Rbts

Budd · Post by **Budd** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:29 pm

Hello,

I would suggest a Remington Mod 7 in .35 Rem.

Very little recoil

light and handy for a woman

and accurate

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:51 pm

6.5x55. In fact, I'd look at a Savage 99 converted to .260 Rem...

k8bor · Post by **k8bor** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:57 pm

Hobie,
Now THAT sounds like a rifle. I haven't been inclined to buying anything else, but now that you brought that up, I wouldn't mind pursuing a rifle like that. I'll bet if you found one in .243, even the rotary magazine would work. What a shooter. From mice to moose.

ARE those rotary magazines hard to adapt?

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:12 pm

My Grandfather hunted almost exclusively with a pair of Model 70 Winchesters. One was 257R and the other 250-3000. He also had an Arisaka made into a 257Robrts sporter. Fortunately we still have the Arisaka and the 250-3000. The 257 Model 70 was stolen from my Uncle's home years ago.

Grandpa was deadly with those rifles. Never heard a story where he missed anything he was shooting at

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:18 pm

k8bor wrote:Hobie,
Now THAT sounds like a rifle. I haven't been inclined to buying anything else, but now that you brought that up, I wouldn't mind pursuing a rifle like that. I'll bet if you found one in .243, even the rotary magazine would work. What a shooter. From mice to moose.

ARE those rotary magazines hard to adapt?

Pepe Ray (a member here) converted one and said that it wasn't difficult EXCEPT he wanted to use the 160 gr. bullets which required some work to do. 140s would be just fine for this purpose.

k8bor · Post by **k8bor** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:29 pm

Dang you. I know of 4 or 5 99's sitting in a gunshop right now for not bad prices, about (3) of them in .308. Blast! Makes me want to go put a deposit on one of them. And I thought I was over the fever.

Malamute, do you want a nice Ruger model 77II stainless in .260 remington? It has a Hogue overmoulded stock and a very nice Timney trigger on it too!

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:29 pm

Thanks, but I'm more of a blued steel and walnut guy.

I've been looking at available bullets, the 6.5/260 looks like it has the better choice for long range bullets, most of the others don't seem to have bullets with as high BC's.

At this point I'm leaning toward the 260. The 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser need heavier bullets to get the high BC's. I've never shot a 7-08 or 7x57, so don't know if that level of recoil will bother my shoulder.

I regularly shoot at steel plates at 300 and 600 yards, and want to set a couple more out at about 900-1000 yards, and one a little farther. The BC is pretty important at longer ranges.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:30 pm

If there was only one I could choose in a bolt I would have to try and get me a 6.6x55. I think the x55 out performs the Rem version due to the longer neck when using 160grn "pencils"

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:31 pm

I'd get the 257 Roberts in a new RUGER HAWKEYE.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:14 pm

Does the 7x57 use a 30-06 length action, or a short (308) length action?

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:31 pm

Look at one of the WSSM cartridges. The 243 isn't bad at all to shoot.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:49 pm

The 6.5 oddly as it may sound is also one of the best "Brush" bullets according to a test performed on this. A great long distance bullet on top of that! The .260 sounds like it may be in my future also.

centershot · Post by **centershot** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:02 pm

For the purposes you outlined, I would think a 25-06 loaded with 100 gr sp's would fill the bill nicely! And as Lefty Dude mentioned, a BLR would be a good platform!

centershot

1886 · Post by **1886** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:04 pm

The OAL of the 7x57 is 3.065". Short action rifles house cartridges 2.80" Regards. 1886.

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:16 pm

im biased find the m-77
whatever the caliber is[7msr]
just shop for the best price 7msr
you will probably like any of these sensible 7msr calibers
the roberts is really nice to shoot have mine slowed down to about 2400
fps
looking around for good cast mould [7msr]
you could ackley it and load it all over the place with 139to150
2400 to about3000 fps easily done
i would did get the 7 ackleyed it use it for rock chucks to elk.

runfiverun

bj94 · Post by **bj94** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:46 pm

I've been impressed by the ballistics of the .260, but for your stated purposes have you considered a .243? And if you have small deer you could even do with a .22-250.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:54 pm

Heck, if it has to be a twist crank. Don't be fancy just get a Mosin-Nagant M38 and power down with 35 grains of H4895 behind a 125gr .312 bullet. It'll chase that slug out the barrel at almost 2800fps with good sectional density and with practice you'll be tak'n 'yotes at 300 to 400 yards.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:02 pm

Malamute wrote:Thanks, but I'm more of a blued steel and walnut guy.

I've been looking at available bullets, the 6.5/260 looks like it has the better choice for long range bullets, most of the others don't seem to have bullets with as high BC's.

At this point I'm leaning toward the 260. The 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser need heavier bullets to get the high BC's. I've never shot a 7-08 or 7x57, so don't know if that level of recoil will bother my shoulder.

I regularly shoot at steel plates at 300 and 600 yards, and want to set a couple more out at about 900-1000 yards, and one a little farther. The BC is pretty important at longer ranges.

A 260 rem at 900-1000 yards and more, it ain't gonna happen

I have a 30/338 that gets the job done.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:54 pm

"A 260 rem at 900-1000 yards and more, it ain't gonna happen I have a 30/338 that gets the job done."

You didnt look at the link, did you?

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practica ... equipment/

Aparently it's done on a regular basis. The 260 has the trajectory of the 300 Win mag, and more velocity and energy at 1000 yards than the 308, due to the high BC of the longer target grade bullets, and the barrels last longer than the magnum calibers. No, it isn't any wonder round, but it's making a good showing in the longer range shooting sports. It's interesting to me in that it can be had in a practical field weight rifle that doesnt recoil much. If I'm looking at a light/medium caliber gun, why not make the most of it?

The practical long range shooting matches that the guy who wrote the articles mentions look interesting also.

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:47 pm

yes the 260 was the pet untill the 6.5-284 came along
these are factory now iirc.
good round though.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:27 am

Malamute,

I'd suggest the .243 Winchester. I know you'd like a heavier bullet but with the right Barnes or Nosler Partition bullet you'd have all the penetration you'd need for anything. Believe the Barnes 95 gr XFB or 115 gr Original would be great and I will be giving them a try. .398 B.C. with this 95 gr.

The Barnes reloading book mentions that poor, lightly constructed bullets have given the .243 Winchester a less than sterling reputation. They say with their XFB bullet this cartridge is another animal.

Of course the availability of the .243 ammo is a plus.

Don't think I'll persuade you but I've always liked the versatility of the .243.

Perhaps a better option with grizzlies in your area would be a larger caliber with one of the outstanding recoil reducing pads. Limbsaver, etc.

Edit: Be sure you have the right rifling twist for those longer bullets--as you know, just reminding you.

Don McCullough

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:17 pm

getitdone, you are rite friend. I had a Rem 700 in 243 and it shot Hornadys 100 gr ers very good except the rifleing turned them into heavy varmint bullets! the same load in a Vanguard I got after and they stayed together perfect! Norma had a bad batch years ago that just would not expand, may as well shot FMJ. Nothing wrong with 243 just test your choice of bullet. In saying this I had some Nosler solid base 170grn 30/30 once and they fell apart on what ever they touched!
Nath.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:54 pm

Don, if I wasn't going to shoot longer distances, or be in heavier game areas, the 243 would be fine, but since I'm starting from scratch, I'm thinking of making the most of it. The 140-142gr match bullets in 6.5mm go .640 BC, which means noticably flatter trajectory at longer ranges without going to higher velocity and more recoil. I can't find any bullets in that BC range in 25 cal either. You have to go to a 175 gr match bullet in 7mm to get there, or a 210 gr 30 cal. From what I've been learning when looking at this, is that there seems to be a sweet spot at 6.5mm for bullets with high BC and sectional density, and therefore shoot rather flat at longer range. It gives you the flatness of trajectory of a 300 mag without the recoil and muzzle blast, and can be had in a lighter rifle as well. All this didnt mean much to me until the shoulder injury. Now I'm paying attention.