looking for .357 Deer loads for Rossi 92 with Short bbl

[Hankster]

I have a 16 1/2"(?) short carbine Rossi 92. Have NKJ's safety/Peep & follower on order, and am now looking to get a good loading for deer ready... I used to use a 30-30.. and would like to get near that level of knockdown power, worked good for me before! I never seem to shoot past 100yds... in the woods here.... would say 25 to 100 yds MAX is what i'm looking at. Anyone know of available Factory loads, or a good handload formula for this?? I can load my own here....Like to stay with a 158 gr Bullet, or close to it anyway...but open minded! Open to suggestions meeting these criteria or are close, but maybe better! Fire away!

[Old Ironsights]

Both.

Buffalo Bore makes an excellent 180gr that will whackem quite dead.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... _list&c=20 It gets over 1800fps out of an 18" bbl.

That load can be duplicated using a similar shaped cast WNFP riding on 16gr LiLgun.

Using my 20" rossi I bowled a running buck at 110 yds.

I've not tried any 158s for deer. I like the 180 solids better.

[AJMD429]

I'll bet the 16" one would not need loads all that different than the longer ones from a practical standpoint.

Speer makes a 170 or 180 grain load (not home now so I forget) I'd be comfortable using to 75 yards.

[Tycer]

Any LBT style 180 over 16grains of Lil'Gun.

[Hankster]

Ok.. is that 16 grs the MAX load for this gun?? Where should I START, and what gr weight should I NOT go past ?? Like my head where it is! LOL! Sounds like the 180 bullet is the real winner so far! I've never used "Lil' Gun" yet, so I got to ask load level info.... mainly loaded for handguns only in ,38/,357 n 9mm..... so "handgun" caliber in a rifle loading is new territory!

[Grizz]

Ditto Tycer

That's the one. 185g GC BTB. 15G Lil'Gun. I'm getting 1724 fps from my 16" barrel winchester. Drops rams at 100 meters. It'll do. It's just about the same terminal ballistics as a 3030 at that range.

Grizz

[El Chivo]

I want somebody to take some game with the Barnes 140 grainer (I have an accuracy load with 12.5 gr IMR4227 for it).

I'm interested to see how it works. It out-penetrated 180's on Jason W.'s tests if I'm not mistaken.

[jimc]

I've had great luck (dropped where they stood) on Texas whitetails with Winchester's 180-grain Partition Gold out of handguns and wouldn't hesitate to try it out of carbine. I've recovered one bullet (under the hide on the off-side), and it exhibited textbook expansion.

[Old Ironsights]

Ok.. is that 16 grs the MAX load for this gun?? Where should I START, and what gr weight should I NOT go past ?? Like my head where it is! LOL! Sounds like the 180 bullet is the real winner so far! I've never used "Lil' Gun" yet, so I got to ask load level info.... mainly loaded for handguns only in ,38/,357 n 9mm..... so "handgun" caliber in a rifle loading is new territory!

If you can get more than 16gr of LiLgun into a .357 case under a 180 you're using magic... or something other than LiLgin. (it's a compressed load)

[86er]

My 5 yr old son used a 16" Rossi with Grizzly Cartridge 158 grain 38 SPL LWFNGC round on a 150 pound hog - dropped in its' tracks. We chrono'd the load out of carbine and it was going 1310 fps (it is marked 990 fps from a 3" revolver on the box). We then did some penetration tests on dead hogs at 50 yards. Regardless of angle or shot placement we could not keep one inside a 100 pound hog in 6 or more shots. I have no basis to recommend this load for deer, I am providing the information for comparison. If you went with the same company's 357 load, same bullet you'd gain serious velocity. The box says 1270 fps from a 3" barrel revolver. I project you'd get something like 1650 fps from the 16" barrel. Grizzly also offers a jacketed bullet with similar specs. You can also load your own cast bullets or some of the jacketed bullets nearly as fast. I've seen Gold Dot bullets recovered from deer and they all look very consistent - and obviously the deer were dead. Sorry I can't be of more help. What does 1000 Tags Filled say? I think there was some 357 data in there. Good luck!

[Hobie]

It seems to me that Lil'Gun is THE powder and the 158 Hornady XTP-FP or Speer Gold Dot OR the 180 gr. XTP or Remington SJHP (both bullets originally intended for the .357 Max pistols which the .357 Mag carbines match for velocity). The BOOK max is 18 gr. Lil'Gun with the 158s and 15 gr. with the 180s. Some people manage to screw in another grain of powder. Reportedly, Hodgdon found that they couldn't get as much Lil'Gun in the case as to reach the maximum allowable pressure. With the 158s I got an honest 2000+ fps. That is very close to .30-30 performance and you have a bigger diameter bullet. The Hornady 158 gr. XTP-HP is too lightly constructed for those velocities so if you want a 158 gr. HP the Gold Dot is the way to go. All this has been repeatedly verified by many shooters over many years including those who posted in response to your question.

[tman]

Both.

Buffalo Bore makes an excellent 180gr that will whackem quite dead.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... _list&c=20 It gets over 1800fps out of an 18" bbl.

That load can be duplicated using a similar shaped cast WNFP riding on 16gr LiLgun.

Using my 20" rossi I bowled a running buck at 110 yds.

I've not tried any 158s for deer. I like the 180 solids better.

My 4" barrelled revolver knocks them dead with the buffalobore.

[Hankster]

NOW we're getting somewhere!! Good info ALL!! And thanks for it!! but Got one more "dumb" question.... OAL of Cartridge.. seeing the 180 "bullet" would be longer.... I take it the comments about case capacity limits mean the OAL of Cartridge is kept the SAME as a 158 gr loaded cartridge would be??? the 180 then gets seated DEEPER in the case, thus "limiting" powder volume?? Do i see this correctly??

[COSteve]

I've heard it said that Lil'Gun is hard on forcing cones and top straps in pistols because it burns really hot. Does anyone know if there are issues like that shooting it in a levergun?

[86er]

Generically, you have it right. The heavier bullet is longer, and takes up more case capacity. This may not be so with bullets that are monolithic or made of other material, but among mainstream bullets this doesn't apply to the 357 mag so much. For example: an all brass solid that weighs X would be longer than a brass bullet with lead base that weighs the same. For same construction bullets, the heavier one will be longer. In that regard, it doesn't need as much powder to get going but you won't get it as fast as the lighter bullet. Ok, now I feel like I'm not making sense..... someone else help out here!

[Griff]

I believe that any factory jacketed 158gr .38Spl +P is sufficient for deer out to 100 yards from a carbine. I've seen what they can do on similar sized, thin skinned animals.

Er... that is, of course, IF you can put that bullet in the "X" ring!

Yes, you could say I'm a fan of +P. And accuracy is far more important than velocity, or even bullet construction. Remember those slow, all lead bullets were harvesting game long before the first gilded ammo!

[BigSky56]

180 CP LBT and 17 grains lil'gun with and standard primers 1300 fps from a 3" gp100 cases eject easy you wont believe the penetration over 3' thru a big cougar chest to butt and exited. If you dont roll your own Double Tap and Buffalo Bore make the 180 LBT, D.T. is cheaper. I use my load for bear protection. I havent had any problems with the barrel or top strap course I dont rapid fire it either. The 357 is in the range of 35K cup and I believe the rossi is good on past that by some. The book on lil'gun is 15 grains to allow for the little 5 shot 357's. danny

[Hobie]

NOW we're getting somewhere!! Good info ALL!! And thanks for it!! but Got one more "dumb" question.... OAL of Cartridge.. seeing the 180 "bullet" would be longer.... I take it the comments about case capacity limits mean the OAL of Cartridge is kept the SAME as a 158 gr loaded cartridge would be??? the 180 then gets seated DEEPER in the case, thus "limiting" powder volume?? Do i see this correctly??

That's one reason the charge is less with the 180 than with the 158... Now, of course the COL will be the same. HOWEVER, in some guns you might be able to seat the bullet out a bit and in some you will need to seat it a hair deeper so that it will still feed.

[Hobie]

I've heard it said that Lil'Gun is hard on forcing cones and top straps in pistols because it burns really hot. Does anyone know if there are issues like that shooting it in a levergun?

Bob Baker of Freedom Arms has said so. I've yet to see it in my rifles. I don't shoot that fast, usually, so... FWIW, I continue to use Lil'Gun and have bought a 4-pound bottle of it since reading Mr. Baker's comments.

[Hankster]

Thank you Hobie, and the rest! I'll be gathering up Powder and bullets and testing for groups soon!! Now, in the meantime I've been reading a lot... and that top strap thing confuses me. Lil Gun is supposed to be a "slower burning" powder.... wouldn't the FAST burning stuff do more "flame cutting"? Or am i wrong? Also, it seems from what i've read elsewhere, Lil gun LIKES to be Compressed, or at least "WARM loaded", and doesn't do well if you load down too much, wide variations in velocity and pressure, AND accuracy show up. It's at it's best in Stout loads! Also, you'll get MORE zip, if the Bullet is seated/crimped TIGHT to the casing.... the powder likes "Bullet Pull" as it starts off?? That sound right?? anyway, I've got enough to get going... now if only that rear sight would show up..........
Hank

[Hobie]

... Look, rifles don't have top straps (unless it is the Circuit Judge) and it is the THROATS that he says it damages. Baker thinks Lil'Gun's composition makes it burn hot. Lil'Gun is a BALL powder and in general one doesn't compress BALL powders as this changes their burn characteristics AND one doesn't load them way down for the same reason. If your dies are properly set up that will be fine with Lil'Gun or H110/W296 or... you name it.

ALL of this is a repeat and can be found by a search.

[Hankster]

Sorry didn't make it clear.... it obviously was guys shooting these in revolvers beefing about erosion at the top strap and forcing cone....seems some like these type loads for "backpacking" carry... that was what i was commenting on. Whether they are right, or full of it, I have no clue! that's why I mentioned it....My bad.

[2X22]

I've used one single .357 rifle load since 1978. A 158gr Remington JSP and 17.1grs of W296. Never saw any difference between how deer reacted to it and a 180gr in a 300 win. Down and dead. This has been the wifes favorite for near 33 years now

2x22

[COSteve]

I've heard it said that Lil'Gun is hard on forcing cones and top straps in pistols because it burns really hot. Does anyone know if there are issues like that shooting it in a levergun?

Bob Baker of Freedom Arms has said so. I've yet to see it in my rifles. I don't shoot that fast, usually, so... FWIW, I continue to use Lil'Gun and have bought a 4-pound bottle of it since reading Mr. Baker's comments.

Good to know. I've played around with big loads of H110 but was curious about hoe Lil'Gun would work.

[Dave James]

My 16" is my truck gun so it covers double duty, most times the load is 200 grain Beartooth bullets over Winchester 296, for general VA size deer the COr-Bon or Buffaloe Bore stuff works well

[pricedo]

I have a 16 1/2"(?) short carbine Rossi 92. Have NKJ's safety/Peep & follower on order, and am now looking to get a good loading for deer ready... I used to use a 30-30.. and would like to get near that level of knockdown power, worked good for me before! I never seem to shoot past 100yds... in the woods here.... would say 25 to 100 yds MAX is what i'm looking at. Anyone know of available Factory loads, or a good handload formula for this?? I can load my own here....Like to stay with a 158 gr Bullet, or close to it anyway...but open minded! Open to suggestions meeting these criteria or are close, but maybe better! Fire away!

I have a 16" bbl. PRE-SAFETY Rossi Puma carbine in .357 Mag.
This is a pre-Taurus takeover vintage gun.
Does your gun have a separate dovetail front sight just behind the barrel band or a post front sight that is located on top of & is part of the front barrel band?
I use the Federal 158 grain flat nose bullets but am going the give the 140 grain FTX Hornady LEVERevolution factory ammo a try.