more 22 discussion

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:23 pm

The 22 mag threads got me looking around. I am partial to the concept of this model:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =217390907
because
it's stainless
magazine fed
synthetic stock
priced about half of a centerfire rifle
I don't like guns without iron sights, but I'd use a scope on it anyway.

all pluses for a boat gun in Alaska, and sort of in line with my ideas of a 4-gun battery as discussed on another post.

but then I got thinking about my Dad and one of his favorite rifles, a bolt action .223. That has a lot going for it as far as the .22 cal slot in the battery.

biggest pluses over .22 mag that I see are cheap and readily available ammo, and longer range than the other 22. plus I can reload for it, and it should be around as long as war is.

the negatives I see are size and weight, they're mostly the size of other cf calibers. and they cost a lot more for the guns.

The cheapest and lightest path would be to get an H&R .223 barrel to go on my sb2 frame. I can reload it almost as fast as a bolt action, maybe faster if you account for the time to load up the mags. Anyone have a .223 barrel for sale?

All this just because spring is coming and you guys keep buying new guns....

I would use such a gun as a plinker, varmint population decreaser, meat gun if appropriate, and general utility of the kind that fits in-between my alternate alternatives. Anything you would do with a 22 mag I suppose.

What do you think are the pros and cons ?

Regards,

Grizz

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:34 pm

Hey, Grizz....howzit? Your logic is sound...as per usual. You have that Trapper .357? Do you need more than that? Nahhh...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:45 pm

BlaineG wrote:Hey, Grizz....howzit? Your logic is sound...as per usual. You have that Trapper .357? Do you need more than that? Nahhh...

I don't think of the trapper as a 200 yard coyote gun, or much of a squirrel gun either if I want to eat it. Unless I scope it. Nah.... I'm just chewing on the 22 mag posts and then I started thinking. oofda

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:27 pm

IMO (which worth exactly what you paid for it), I'd go the .223 route.

You already reload, you can load it down to .22 Mag levels or up to whatever .223 can be loaded up to, ammo components are easy to find (for the time being), etc.

Stan in SC · Post by **Stan in SC** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:35 pm

AWP101 has it nailed.Load up or load down with .223.Same bullet weight as a .22 magnum.Much more versatile.

Stan in SC

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:42 pm

Marlin is coming out with a whole new 22 lineup....XT22. There will be 4-6 different 22mag offerings.

My idea of reloading is opening a 22mag box and refilling the mag.

wavetrain75 · Post by **wavetrain75** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:03 pm

Haven't looked at .22 mag, but I know that .223 can be reloaded cheaper than buying .17HMR.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:58 pm

Grizz wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Hey, Grizz....howzit? Your logic is sound...as per usual. You have that Trapper .357? Do you need more than that? Nahhh...
I don't think of the trapper as a 200 yard coyote gun, or much of a squirrel gun either if I want to eat it. Unless I scope it. Nah.... I'm just chewing on the 22 mag posts and then I started thinking. oofda

May not be much left of that squirl from the 223 to suck on friend

CZ 527 action, like shooting a 22

In the teens of grains of H4227 should get you 22mag levels.

Best wishes.

Nath.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:48 pm

Grizz, I have 2 Handi's in .223. One Bull barrel and one super light weight barrel. I bought the lightweight because I wanted a lightweight walking around rifle. I hear horror stories about the lightweight saying it's too light, you can't get good accuracy from it and on and oon. not much good said about them. It is said to be the one Handi barrel that is rifled for heavier bullets. On my last trip shooting with Jr. I put two 55 gr and one 45 gr all fired at the same bull into a 3/4" group at 100 yards.
All that said, I'm about to cull the heard a bit and get a CZ 527 in .223.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:45 am

Thanks Rusty

Yeah, the CZ sounds good. The H&Rs sound good too. I think everyone is right about the center fire choice. Very versatile. Keeping my eyes open, see what comes along.

Jdad has a good take on the wmr. I'm kind of surprised there's not more folks weighing in on the 22 mag side.

So now I need to find out which bolt guns are chambered for 5.56 vs .223.
And, will a chamber reamer adjust a .223 chamber to 5.56? So I can shoot military ammo of course...

how on that?

thanks

Grizz

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:45 am

Grizz wrote:So now I need to find out which bolt guns are chambered for 5.56 vs .223.
And, will a chamber reamer adjust a .223 chamber to 5.56? So I can shoot military ammo of course...

The .223 Wylde chamber does both to my understanding. IIRC you use the reamer in a .223 Rem chambered rifle to handle 5.56 but I may have that backwards...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:35 am

awp101 wrote:
Grizz wrote:So now I need to find out which bolt guns are chambered for 5.56 vs .223.
And, will a chamber reamer adjust a .223 chamber to 5.56? So I can shoot military ammo of course...
The .223 Wylde chamber does both to my understanding. IIRC you use the reamer in a .223 Rem chambered rifle to handle 5.56 but I may have that backwards...

That's right, if I read it correctly. 5.56 fires .223 OK, but should not shoot 5.56 in the .223 chamber.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:12 am

Grizz wrote:
awp101 wrote:
Grizz wrote:So now I need to find out which bolt guns are chambered for 5.56 vs .223.
And, will a chamber reamer adjust a .223 chamber to 5.56? So I can shoot military ammo of course...
The .223 Wylde chamber does both to my understanding. IIRC you use the reamer in a .223 Rem chambered rifle to handle 5.56 but I may have that backwards...
That's right, if I read it correctly. 5.56 fires .223 OK, but should not shoot 5.56 in the .223 chamber.

I know folk that do! I thought just the brass was thicker and reloading needed caution.

Nath.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:27 am

Grizz, you should just talk me out of my 1894 in 218 Bee

JB · Post by JB » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:55 am

Nath wrote:
Grizz wrote:
awp101 wrote:
Grizz wrote:So now I need to find out which bolt guns are chambered for 5.56 vs .223.
And, will a chamber reamer adjust a .223 chamber to 5.56? So I can shoot military ammo of course...
The .223 Wylde chamber does both to my understanding. IIRC you use the reamer in a .223 Rem chambered rifle to handle 5.56 but I may have that backwards...
That's right, if I read it correctly. 5.56 fires .223 OK, but should not shoot 5.56 in the .223 chamber.
I know folk that do! I thought just the brass was thicker and reloading needed caution.

Nath.

I've fired tons of 5.56 in various 223's. The catch does come with reloading. The 5.56 brass is thicker and won't hold has much powder as the 223 case. What would be a compressed load in a 223 can flow over the top of a 5.56 case sometimes. Of course pressure will be affected as well.

I have a few 22 mags, but normally if the 22LR won't handle it, I'll jump to a 223. I do like the 17 HMR though. They're super accurate a blast for small game and vermin.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:10 pm

BlaineG wrote:Grizz, you should just talk me out of my 1894 in 218 Bee

still after that trapper, eh?

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:13 pm

Ok thanks guys for the clarification on chamber vs brass capacity. I get it. Kind of a pain to have to sort brass, I'm REALLY BAD at keeping track...

I appreciate the discussion... thanks

Grizz

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:52 pm

The .223, for me, presents a problem with the concept of the "4-gun battery" because the .223 is one that I would never want t obe without and one that I would recommend everyone have at least one of. Sure, ther are lots of .22 CFs that are faster and some that are smaller and have less appetite for powder, but it's one that does a decent job at the higher and lower ends, although not the "best" at either extreme.

It's a good balance for a lot of what a lot of folks need and is "cheap" comparatively speaking, has been the subject of a LOT of load development and can be found just about everywhere. Besides, I like it just because it's a neat little round, easy to load for and easy for me to get the accuracy I expect. Mine is a Ruger No. 3 and shoots 60 grain HPs into under a half inch at a hundred yards (3 shots). Out to 300 yards, it is hard NOT to connect with small targets with it. Military brass provides one of the biggest benefits and you simply adapt loading data to that brass as you do for YOUR rifle - start low and work up.

I have shot a lot of jacketed stuff in it and those projectiles have always cost considerably less/100 than my .25s, 6.5s or 7mms. It uses less powder than any of them. I recently got an RDO 55 grain mould for it, so I wili be exploring even further into the "rimfire realm" levels of power - OK, maybe the .22 Hornet realm of power.

Since I just got the .357 Rossi Carbine, I am not sure just how much the .223 will get used this year, but I intend to use the Rossi for squirrel if I can get out. Why not? My Dad sits in his tree stand and takes his squirrels on the ground with his .223, using varmint loads and head shots. Good practice.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:35 pm

Grizz wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Grizz, you should just talk me out of my 1894 in 218 Bee
still after that trapper, eh?

No, not right now.....I have the 1894 in .44 Mag and a couple .44 mag shooters......I'll stick with that..

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:04 pm

I have a .22 bullet mould that throws aprox a 50 grain GC bullet that I'd like to try when I get around to it. With that bullet in the .223 I can duplicate .22 mag for pennies.

The reason I'm thinking of the CZ over the Handi rifle is because I am really fond of Lee Loaders and Handi rifles aren't said to be friendly to neck sizing on a permanent basis.

As far as the .223 vs 5.56 thing goes, after you fire either case the first time it won't mater much.

Washita · Post by **Washita** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:50 pm

I think that for all it's other advantages the .223 is not cheaper to shoot than a .22 WMR, even with handloads. I can normally get CCI .22 Mags at Wal Mart for about $11 per box of 50. Primers & jacketed bullets, powder & the averaged-out cost of cases to load 50 rounds of .223 will come to about the same. None of that, of course, includes the cost of reloading equipment.

I have a .223 Savage VLP, handload for it, & love it. I also have a Winchester 94/22 Mag. that I love. The .223 has a lot of advantages over the .22 WMR; much more accurate, lots more power and much more versatile. But only cheaper to shoot if you cast your own bullets, and then I'd be surprised if it outperformed the WMR.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:14 pm

Let me suggest a Stevens bolt gun in .223.
I have the youth model, light and accurate.
Jerry Reed uses the full size model.
We both like ours.

Halfbreed · Post by **Halfbreed** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:58 pm

How about a 22 Hornet bolt gun? At least the cartridge looks like it belongs in a levergun, and is reloadable. Pretty decent selection too.

Savage model 40, CZ model CZ527 American, Ruger model 77/22,

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:32 pm

Thanks Guys

this is fun now. 22 Hornet eh? more research.....

I have a Marlin 39 that I like a lot. It'll nudge rams at 100 meters, at least when the 2 or 3 front beads happen to coincide with the flight path....

Then there was that great 22 wmr conversation that got me thinking about this stuff. So I'll read some .22 hornet stuff.

I will read about the guns you guy suggested and see what the auction sites have. See if there's anything local. It's a nice thought process.

I'm still leaning to 5.56/223, but keeping an open mind since I don't actually NEED another gun. Heh.

Thanks again; hope everyone has a great weekend.

Grizz

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