rossi vs miroku

sullkat · Post by **sullkat** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:16 am

Took two NIB 1892 rifles to the range this morning, both 357mag. shooting factory 158 sjhp.
The miroku was very smooth and feed really slick, took 5 shots to hit center target at 100yds.
The rossi is another story, my hand is sore from jamming the lever up to get the round in the chamber (i had one of these about ten years ago and now i know why it is gone)

Yes I know NKJ can slick it up but after all the years in production I would think someone would have figured it out by now.
But I am sure Nate says keep up the bad work.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:21 am

It makes perfect sense, once the relative prices/costs are compared between the two - you get what you pay for.

.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:25 am

You know of course, that condition is fairly easily corrected: Go to Rifle Tune-ups, even I could understand it and get it right. They do make very nice rifles and the price reflects the lack of hand finishing... which I must assume the buyer is expected to provide!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:30 am

Rossi's are kind of like ... well a Ford Ranger with F350 springs in it. Take the springs out of the Miroku and put 'em in the Rossi and I'd bet there would be a world of difference.
Especially the ejector spring.

A little polishing wouldn't hurt either.

Joe

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:42 am

sullkat wrote:Took two NIB 1892 rifles to the range this morning, both 357mag. shooting factory 158 sjhp.
The miroku was very smooth and feed really slick, took 5 shots to hit center target at 100yds.
The rossi is another story, my hand is sore from jamming the lever up to get the round in the chamber (i had one of these about ten years ago and now i know why it is gone)

Yes I know NKJ can slick it up but after all the years in production I would think someone would have figured it out by now.
But I am sure Nate says keep up the bad work.

Seems like you forgot to mention what your NIB Miroku's price price was. Bet it wasn't the $400 a NIB 357mag LSI imported Rossi should have cost you.

In fact, if you sent your Rossi off to Steve and he gave you a complete trigger / action job on it you wouldn't have anywhere near as much in it as the Miroku cost.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:44 am

Rossis have varied a lot - I have one that is as smooth out of the box as my B92 and the locking lugs are done better.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:49 am

I know Rossi 92s are not going to be as nice as the Winchesters of today. But at half the price what did you really expect?

A little work to the Rossi and its running smooth. My Rossi 92 in .45 Colt is one of the most accurate lever guns I own.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:57 am

A few years ago I picked up a EMF Hartford short rifle off the net, with a Lyman reciver sight. $330. as slick as warm butter with a trigger straight from heaven, and no safteys.

.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:24 pm

Deleted

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:09 pm

I have one of each and feel real grateful that somebody was smart enough to build us these wonderful rifles so we could buy them. I remember the "bad old days" when it looked like nobody would ever make '92s again. I like having choices!

And by the way, I have an original Winchester in 38-40 was kinda' reluctant to feed cartridges smoothly before some work on the guide rails...

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:17 pm

The B-92s are like the originals in format and function. No tang safety or rebounding hammer. My Browning 1886 SRC is like the original also. It is the winchester labeled miroku built guns that have the stuff we hate.

My japanese built leverguns are as finely built as any of my guns, and much better than some of them.

Also, Blaine has one of those miroku built winchesters with all the junk we hate and it shoots like a dream. functions just like an 86 should as far as loading and shooting it goes. plus it's way lighter than my src.... and it's accurate.

I have a U.S. made winchester 94 in 357 and it has the junk we hate plus the 'angle eject' feature. It shoots like a dream. and it's accurate. no problemo dropping the rams when I get lucky enough to connect. and sloppier than any ak47 I've fiddled with.

well made is well made and there is a lot of stuff with the winchester label that's junk. like the man said, I like having choices.

JB · Post by JB » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:12 pm

Yes, the Miroku is a much better made rifle, but you do pay for it as others have pointed out.

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:25 pm

Put me down as a fan of the Browning versions. I have 2 1886's, a SRC and a Rifle. I also have a Browning model 71. All 3 are slick, accurate, well made and downright gorgeous. They are all High Grade with some of the nicest figured walnut you have ever seen and the fit is outstanding. Also, no lawyer mods to mess with. Yep, I am a fan of the Brownings.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:27 pm

Well, I'm not going to get rid of my Winoku '86 any time soon. It's a very nicely built rifle even with the tang safety and rebounding hammer. Some day I'll get the parts to correct the malady sometime.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:30 pm

Hey, anybody who can't deal with a tang safety and a rebounding hammer is too big a sissy for an 86.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:48 pm

That's the way to call'em out, OS.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:21 pm

Just a joke - everybody likes what they like.

Might have something to do with what they first got used to.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:34 pm

Old Savage wrote:Just a joke - everybody likes what they like. Might have something to do with what they first got used to.

I can't argue with you there. Matter of fact I know this is true ... at least in my case.

You know, I miss the old Winchester vs Marlin threads. They were much more fun.

Joe

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:52 am

I am going by the rebounding hammer which is on my first 94 made in 89 and the fact that I like the tang safety but I had one of those on my first Stevens shotgun.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:26 am

to me the tang safety is the right place for a safety. I agree with those that hate the crossbolt safety. But before I got into guns I envisioned a safety being a sliding switch somewhere.

I don't rely on the safeties anyway but one nice thing about the Win 94 tang safety - you can dry-fire and the hammer does not make contact with the firing pin.

I would like one of the Rossi 92's but as I currently have a Win 94 and Marlin 94 in .357. Yes the Winchester shoots like a dream once you manage to get a round chambered.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:25 am

I've replaced the ejector spring in two Rossi/Braztech 92s and one Ranch Hand, all 357s, in the past two months. One 92 would chamber a round but stiffly, and the other 92 and the RH would not chamber a round unless it was a 38 Spl or unless the lever was double-clutched. A new ejector spring cured the feed problems without any other modification. And a local auto parts dealer has just the right 0.24" dia springs to do the trick.

Noah

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:25 am

I personally would love to own one of the Jap Winchesters. I have a few AE Winchesters with the cross bolt saftey. I love the guns but would much rather them not have any safeties at all. I dont see why a lever gun should have a safety in the first place. Either dont have the hammer back or if you really are worried dont chamber a round. Sounds safe enough to me.

I grew up hunting with lever guns, like many before me. They never had Safties and I never once seen one have an accidental discharge. I have seen them dropped, get knocked off of 4 wheelers and trucks, fall out of tree stands and even down a bank into the creek. I know I know.....shameful how some people treat their guns.

The tang safety is not what turns me away from the Jap Winchesters....its the price. Nice and beautiful guns they are.....but

I thought the reason America gets other countries to make them is because its cheaper........where is the consumer's savings?

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:39 am

As I understand it the REAL Winchester ended in 1931.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:41 am

Don't get me wrong, I think that the Japchesters are beautiful! The Browning B92 is something I'd love to own and I'd love to have any of their models suitably 'de-lawyered'. My point was that for most of us, the combination of their high price and the cost to remove their 'features' to return them to their original configuration is prohibitive.

I agree I'm settling for a less 'pretty' gun but my Rossis are shooting guns, not safe queens. They come to me close to the way Oliver Winchester originally sold them and all I have to do is slick them up a bit. I find them very accurate and after 3,500rds in my rifle and 2,700rds in my carbine, they've run without a single problem.

That said, if I won the lottery and I had the money to get anything I wanted, I'd buy a bunch of high dollar Japchesters, Japrownings, and Pedersoli beauties, get them modified to remove the 'junk' and treasure them. Realistically, that ain't going to happen.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:57 am

Glad to hear that they are so dependable - love my 45 Colt. It has what you might call original looks. I much prefer that to the Browning approach. Recently shot a 44 Mag of the old B92s with Win factory 240 44 Mag. seeing this you might want one all the more. Only 50 yds though.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:08 am

I've had my eye out for a Browning in 44mag for a couple of years but all I can find is 'beat to heck' or priced like platinum around here.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:14 pm

SJPrice wrote:Put me down as a fan of the Browning versions. I have 2 1886's, a SRC and a Rifle. I also have a Browning model 71. All 3 are slick, accurate, well made and downright gorgeous. They are all High Grade with some of the nicest figured walnut you have ever seen and the fit is outstanding. Also, no lawyer mods to mess with. Yep, I am a fan of the Brownings.

Yes sir, I will take the Browning every time over a Rossi, for one a Rossi is still a Rossi even after it slicked up, and it's still worth the same low price, afterwards.

I did try a couple of Rossi 92's and both were disasters in the reliability dept. I took them back to dealer and made him give me my money back. You can get a lemon in anything but I have had really good luck most of my Brownings.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:20 pm

I'll chime in as a shooter who loves to shoot and i dont like to tinker too much ---- which means i don't like downtime, and i am not confident enough in my own abilities to do too much work on my own guns.

I have resisted the Rossi's i have encountered because a couple i have looked at felt a bit rough --- i know that NKJ has the solution, but i just don't have the time to mess with it ---
that said, i would greatly prefer a Winchester (Japchester?) that is ready to go. The way i look at it, my hobbies are recreational for me and if i have to spend too much time getting something to run right, that interferes with time i can spend making more cash --- if the time i have to spend on anything exceeds how much money i can make doing something else in that same block of time ---- then i need to farm that task out

My spare time is a fragile eco-syestem that is spread out amongst a couple of different interests --- the eco-system can get disrupted by family and work factors quite easilly ---- thats why i would always choose an out of the box, ready to go Winchester

--------------- however, if i had the time and inclination to work with a Rossi, i would gladly pocket the $400 odd dollars in savings and shoot the heck out of the thing

But due to the examples i have seen, i have always looked at the Rossi's as being realistically a $650 rifle rather than a $450 rifle due to the work involved if you have to farm everything out, as i would

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Some of the Rossis are as good or better than some of the B 92s - you have to look at them.

marlin shooter · Post by **marlin shooter** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 am

I have a Win/Miroku 1892 in .44 mag (just like the current one's) that I bought 6 or 7 year's ago. I have never done anything to it other then stuff shells in the mag, cycle lever and pull trigger. Alway's has gone bang. I did D+T it for a receiver sight. Still has the tang safety and rebounding hammer. Maybe someday I'll remove them. I have handled new Rossi's and I know some of them would not work as they were. I am a mechanic by trade and will dabble with light gun tinkering but I refuse to buy a new rifle and have to fix it before using it. I almost bought a used 44-40 once but I could not get over the cheesy cat head medallion on the receiver. Put my vote down for Win/Miroku, or Browning.
Karl

sullkat · Post by **sullkat** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:50 am

I don't plan on putting money into either one of them, all I have invested in the two are a kimber warrior and a S/A v10.
I just feel if a rifle is marked for 357 then you should be able to drop the lever and pull it up and have one slide in the chamber.
To me turning the gun every which way but loose jacking the lever up trying to force a round into the chamber is much more dangerous than not having a safety on it. The trigger block safety always made more sense to me anyway.
So rather than throwing money at the rossi if it don't improve I will just use it as another single shot.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:37 am

sullkat wrote:I don't plan on putting money into either one of them, all I have invested in the two are a kimber warrior and a S/A v10.
I just feel if a rifle is marked for 357 then you should be able to drop the lever and pull it up and have one slide in the chamber.
To me turning the gun every which way but loose jacking the lever up trying to force a round into the chamber is much more dangerous than not having a safety on it. The trigger block safety always made more sense to me anyway.
So rather than throwing money at the rossi if it don't improve I will just use it as another single shot.

I've never seen a Rossi, Browning, Winchester, or any other levergun that was in that shape so if you have or know of a gun in that shape, there's something very wrong with it. My Rossis (my 2 and my friend's that I tuned for him) will load and fire when the lever is cycled slowly and quickly (as fast as I can cycle them), when the rifle is laying flat on it's right side and laying flat on it's left. (No, I haven't tried upside down.) I'm betting that any correctly tuned 357mag levergun of any brand will also do that.

It sounds like a number of the Rossi bashers may be responding to internet hype rather than first hand experience. Besides the 3 I've worked on, at our range we must have 15 other people in our CAS group who own Rossis, most being 357mag and all being bought in the last 4 years.

Most have been run stock, straight out of the box stock. Yes, stock they are stiffer than mine and yes, the triggers are heavier but they all fire, they all cycle, and most of them cycle 38spl as well as 357mag just fine. In addition, over time their actions have gotten smoother and the triggers get a bit lighter.

Of those Rossis, I know of only one person who had to send theirs back when they first got it. Dave sent his back because he bought it on line and it was listed as NIB but it came in a very well used one. The dealer apologized profusely, sent him another and it works just fine.

However, all my experiences with them are relatively recently produced Rossis as none have those very dark, almost black stocks. As Nate has mentioned many times, Rossi retooled their plant with CNC machines in 2000 and he claims that the guns produced after that time are much higher quality than their older versions.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:03 am

The only Miroku I have ever shot is 86er's model 86, so I'll not comment further on the Miroku rifles. I do have a Rossi 92 which was made about 2005. It is not really slick, but I have never had a problem with it. Mine is in .480 Ruger and it feeds, ejects, and shoots as well as my 2 and my wifes 1 Marlin. My 92 has shown a preference for bullets in the 400 grain weight range. The 425 grain WFN cast bullets from Cast Performance are really accurate out of it, but they are a little bit longer and require that you work the lever firmly and will hang up if you don't. For hunting use, I have used them once and in the excitement I didn't even notice the difference. The hog didn't care. It just went for a roll and a death squeal. The 325 grain jacketed bullets from Speer when used in reloads will cycle with 2 fingers on the lever. My rifle also came factory with a metal magazine follower. Yes I do want to get Nate's DVD and the parts to slick it up more, but it works fine as it is. Watch the video of 86er shooting my 92 on a moving target out at RKrodle's place. The loads were 325 XTP bullets in Starline cases with WLP primers over Maximum loads of H110 (load data from Hodgdon.com). It obviously didn't hang and 86er was able to cycle it pretty fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uGICBfDFdQ

gak · Post by **gak** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:40 am

Without re-quoting COSteve's very good and thorough account, I will +1 what he has said, with the only difference being also that many of mine were/are pre 2000 retooling (actually ca 1980-1990 Interarms production--but no black-c*** stock ones) - as well as post 2000 but pre-safety EMFs...and they've all run swell (how about that for dating me!),...Some a little slicker out of the box (or off the internet or gun show table as the case may have been on a few) than others, but all ultimately cycling and shooting fine. Zero send backs or go-to-smiths. Now, I'll caveat that a few have still only been shot very little--still shoot fine though-- while others haven't been out for awhile, so that that condition may change as they'll do on just about any run gun,...but to date I'm a happy camper....

So, the main point is that I've had very few gripes even with the early ones. The only disgruntlement has been and remains the #!?# rear odd-metric sights (appx .390s?) marbles used to sell replacement semi (and maybe full?) bucks for but has long since ceased. NKJ I believe has developed a fix for (modified semi) but I have yet to avail myself of, so that one's on me.

I'd like to restock one or two of these with gen-u-wine walnut,...which *would* make these $650++ guns as someone opined about in a different manner...But, a recent thread with NKJ and others describing how much a PITA (my words)--for anyone to do, neophyte or expert, and associated expense--has me rethinking, at least for the moment. The good news is, even the ones I'm thinking of aren't terrible or unthinkable to just leave alone, and as mentioned none of the black-c*** stuff.

Btw, also have a B-92 pair....44 and .357, shot very little, and they are the cat's meow. I don't try to compare these and the Rossis too much. Apples and oranges to me. The Rossis are the "working" (use but no abuse) guns-in my brood--and the Brownings mostly admiring pieces...yet.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:52 am

Just got a Braztech stainless trapper. It was functional out of the box and was actually slightly "slicker" than my B92 when it was new. I guess I lucked out on the sights as these are not bad. Pretty good quality rear buckhorn (not BB gun at all) and a quality brass bead front; no complaints. On close inspection, it is pretty rough and crude but if it functions, that's all I ask of this particular rifle. The wood doesn't have a weird finish, in fact, it has little finish at all. I think I can put an oil finish right on top and be fine. They do love their buffing wheels as this thing doesn't have a flat spot on it with some corners so rounded that I doubt a sanding block could correct it, Even so, I have plenty of "pretty" guns and this is my beater truck gun. As has already been said, you get what you pay for and I did. No complaints for the money spent.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:55 am

Let me think .........

Buy a $500.00 Rossi 92 in the caliber of my choice, spend a relatively minor amount on some springs and magazine follower then go shoot it.

~OR~

Buy a $1100.00+ Mirokuchester in the caliber of my choice, spend a hefty chunk of cash on parts and gunsmithing to retro fit the action to what it was supposed to be, and then go shoot it. All the time wondering where I'm going to get parts for my hybred if they are ever needed.

No, I think I'd choose the Rossi.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:24 am

J Miller wrote:Let me think .........
Buy a $500.00 Rossi 92 in the caliber of my choice, spend a relatively minor amount on some springs and magazine follower then go shoot it.
~OR~
Buy a $1100.00+ Mirokuchester in the caliber THEY CURRENTLY OFFER, spend a hefty chunk of cash on parts and gunsmithing to retro fit the action to what it was supposed to be, and then go shoot it. All the time wondering where I'm going to get parts for my hybred if they are ever needed.
No, I think I'd choose the Rossi.
Joe

There!@ Fixed that for ya!

skullcat,

Leverguns in general and the '92 in .357 in particular are rather OAL and nose shape sensitive. It has much to do with the diameter of the hole you're attempting to feed the cartridge into, the angles of approach & departure and the space you're attempting to accomplish this in.

Nate Kiowa Jones has been very generous with his learned knowledge and experience with these. AIUI, Rossi built these for years on older machinery and tolerances were deplorable. Newer examples are being built on newer equipment. That ain't to say even they don't have issues. There have been literally, hundreds of posts in the 5 or so years I've been here dealing with various problems on Rossi's. None have been insurmountable. Nate has often posted cures to specific ills.

I haven't done a detailed review, but it seems most are related to the gap between the guides, ejector spring tension or the carrier's detent & ball. I totally understand about not wanting to spend extra money... but I was being truthful in my last post about the handfitting and sale prices. Take a gander over at Marauder's Rossi '92 Tune-Up hints, and to adjust the guide rails: Model 92 Cartridge Guide Adjustment - Helps feeding.

I tuned up 3 of these, 2 of them back before Al Gore invented the internet, done by methods suggested by other shooters, and some experimenting on my own. All three are slick, but to varying degrees as befitting their purpose! Done w/very few tools, the most complex being a pair of linesman pliers & tinsnips. And with the spring kits available nowadays, you don't even NEED the linesman pliers!

Literally, in just a coupla hours you'll transform that Rossi into gun you won't recognize. Or sell one of those clunkers and order a new'un from Nate. You won't be sorry. At the very least order Steve's video and his mag follower if yours have the plastic one.

And lastly, I ain't pickin' on ya, I've said the same to lots of others... well, ok, I ain't pickin' on ya special-like!

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:44 am

Vintage Griff, glad I invested the hundred miles to have dinner with this fine fellow a couple of years ago.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:31 pm

OLD SAVAGE:

I've always wondered, why do you have a picture of Lee Majors in your sig line?

Noah

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:38 pm

Old Savage wrote:Vintage Griff, glad I invested the hundred miles to have dinner with this fine fellow a couple of years ago.

Yep, I should know to use spell check by now!

Surely, it t'weren't THAT far!??? But I'm glad ya did also!

Noah,

Ever hear of "stunt double"??

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:08 pm

Well Noah, now that is a new one but that was in 83. As Dwight said in the one song - baby things change. Did watch Lee Majors film a scene from on of his series on Lancaster Blvd. He as totally bored by the look of it, walked around staring at various people staring at him.

Yup Griff - 50 miles each way.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:19 pm

Savage:

I've always realized it was you in former times, but I've always got a Lee Majors vibe from that little sig photo, too. Figured it was time to mention it.

This is me in late '72:

Noah

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:35 pm

I guess the late Winchester 92's have gone up, but I thought I've seen them at some of the shows in the $600 or so price range not too long ago. I think they were the ones that CDNN got.

I think Steve mentioned that he used Rossi hammers and triggers to clean up the Miroku Winchesters. Those parts shouldn't be too expensive for those that like the Miroku Winchesters.

Perhaps the Rossis are getting better. The ones I've seen and handled for a few years ago, I wasnt very impressed with. The extra I paid for the Browning 92 was money well spent to me.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:49 pm

Malamute wrote:I guess the late Winchester 92's have gone up, but I thought I've them at some of the shows in the $600 or so price range not too long ago. I think they were the ones that CDNN got.

I think Steve mentioned that he used Rossi hammers and triggers to clean up the Miroku Winchesters. Those parts should be too expensive for those that like the Miroku Winchesters.

Perhaps the Rossis are getting better. The ones I've seen and handled for a few years ago, I wasnt very impressed with. The extra I paid for the Browning 92 was money well spent to me.

Yes, Steve was probably swaping out the rebounding hammer junk on the Miroku Winchesters. This is one reason why, the guys that have been lucky enough to find one of the older Miroku Browning 92's, 71's, 86's, or 95's covet them so much. I know I sure do.

retmech · Post by **retmech** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:11 pm

I bought my first Braztech Rossi 20" carbine 2 years ago and have had zero problems with it and to date 2-3K rds through it. Came with about a 5 lb trigger a bit stiff to close and would throw empties into the next county BUT it worked! Polished the sear and hammer hook, changed out the ejector spring and trigger return spring voila, different gun. Nice smooth action and 2.5 lb trigger.
Last year bought a 24" octagon and out of the box it had a nice 4 lb. trigger, keeps empties in the same zip code and all I've done is lighten the trigger return spring to get my 2.5 lb. trigger. I didn't even have to touch the sear, trigger was smooth as is. This one to date is well over 1K rds with no problems. I don't know what kind of wood they are stocked in but both look like a straight grained walnut with decent fit around the metal. IMO they are one of the best bargains out there in lever guns. The octagon comes D&T'd for a tang sight along with the extra length tang screw to boot!

sullkat · Post by **sullkat** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:57 pm

I have two in 45colt and both of them are very smooth no hang ups, just the 357.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:49 pm

sullkat wrote:I have two in 45colt and both of them are very smooth no hang ups, just the 357.

sullkat,

Like I said, the .357 is the most difficult of them all. Don't ask me why, but the guides are made and set to supposedly feed cartridge lengths from the .357 Mag to the .38Spl. With the myriad nose styles and bullets weights to be found... the attempt to do all things, sometimes translates into doing none well.

Like I said, they are fixable. Takes a little know-how, and some sweat equity.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:23 pm

Griff wrote:
sullkat wrote:I have two in 45colt and both of them are very smooth no hang ups, just the 357.
sullkat,

Like I said, the .357 is the most difficult of them all. Don't ask me why, but the guides are made and set to supposedly feed cartridge lengths from the .357 Mag to the .38Spl. With the myriad nose styles and bullets weights to be found... the attempt to do all things, sometimes translates into doing none well.

Like I said, they are fixable. Takes a little know-how, and some sweat equity.

As Griff said the most troublesome are the 38/357 guns. That's usually because there are so many different brands and shapes and OAL`s of 38`s and 357m’s out there it’s impossible for one gun to cover them all. All our leverguns are length and bullet shape sensitive to some degree. Like semi-auto handguns, they can be picky about what they will run.
Generally, they don’t work well with really long 357’s or really short 38’s. Bullet shape can have a bearing too. Ususally they don’t work well with semi-wad cutters or any bullet that has an exposed driving band to hang up on. Again, much like a semi auto pistol.

But, in your case if the new win will run it but the rossi won't then you may have a bad gun. You already know they will work because you said you have two Rossi's in 45lc. I guess what I'm saying is don't make a general assessment of the all the 357m guns from just a single sample of each brand.

My experience comes from 20+ years of working the 92's. Here is a few things that I've found. I believe the finest 92 ever made was the B92 made for Browning by Miruko of Japan. It's as close to the ordinal design as possible and is made with modern steel. No tang safety, no lever activated trigger block, no stiff to cock rebounding hammer, no spring loaded 5 piece firing pin. But sadly it is no longer available and they only made 20" all blue carbines in 357m and 44mag. Production stopped in the late 80’s.

But, even the B92 guns had problems. I don't think the cart guides are correct and some had 1 in 40" twist and just didn't shoot worth a hoot. I recently rebored one to 45lc becuase the owner just couldn't get it to shoot.
Rossi has always been 1 in 30". Some folks think even that's too slow but I feel they are confusing pistol twist with rifle twist. The 1 in 30" works well with the faster rifle velocities.

Now, lets talk about what I've found with the lawyered up Win Mirukos. Early on the guns were prone to stove pipe. This is because the carrier detents were just setup wrong. The latest ones seem to be better. Then some folks have had inconsistent ignition problems with the Win Miruko with it's rebounding hammer and 5 piece inertia firing pin. Next, they have always had the wrong cartridge guide configuration. The Win, the B92 and the Chiappa ArmiSport all have cartridge guides setup to work best with bottleneck carts like the originals. The problem with that is most are chambered for straight wall carts. The Rossi cart guides are setup for straight wall. If they weren't Rossi wouldn't have been able to chamber these guns in 454 Casull.

You have to take in to account that about 30 to 40% of the cost to build a gun usually goes toward the final fit and finish. What that means is just because it looks well fitted and finished that doesn't guaranty it will work right.

Think about this. All the folks that made the original 92's are long dead and gone. The folks with the most experience building 92's now are the Rossi folks. They have been doing it for 30 something years. They aren't finished as nice as the others but they don't cost twice as much either and functionally it's closer to the original than the others so the dang things work. The cartidge guides are setup to run straight wall ammo so they are not as ammo sensitive. They don't have all those tiny add-on parts to fail and if you want it to run smoother they aren't that hard to work on.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:03 pm

And that gentlemen, is THE definitive answer!!

krgriggs · Post by **krgriggs** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:13 pm

I am very impressed withe the 92 Winchester take downs withe the 24" barrel, so far I have bought 6 of these rifles 3 32-20's and 38-40 a 44-40 and 45 Long Colt. I have a hawkeye to inspect barrels with and the barrels on these guns have premium bores compared to other marlins and winchesters, the latter 1950- 1990's winchesters and Marlins all have alot of machine marks the new Japanese barrels have no machine marks looks like the barrels were lapped. The actions are of very high quality and so is the wood. Ths triggers are pretty good out of the box although if you want a target quality trigger and gunsmith is in order. I don't think there has been a finer winchester made except maybe some of the original special order 92 that were made in the early 1900's.