OT: 16 Gauge Tidbits Of Interesting Info.

[cshold]

Jack O'Connor, described the 16:
"The gauge that shoots like a 12 and kicks like a 20."

Annie Oakley set a world's record by breaking 4,772 out of 5,000 thrown targets in nine hours in February, 1885 (The American Rifleman, October 1998 issue). She chose a couple of 16 gauge doubles for the job -- she knew the secret of the 16's reputation for superb patterns and modest recoil.

Don Zutz reminds us in Shotgunning -- Trends in Transition (1989) that ". . . Two of the most famous ruffed grouse hunters of all time -- William Harden Foster and Burton L. Spiller -- focused in their books on the 16. Perhaps the most famous shotgun in all upland writing is the 16 gauge Parker hammer gun . . . `The Little Gun' of Foster's New England Grouse Hunting. And when Burton L. Spiller narrated the ordering and purchase of his first custom bird gun in More Grouse Feathers (1938), it turned out to be a 16 gauge."

The Shot String Secret
This knowledge of shot string science has been artfully concealed from you by a generation of rifle-shooting writers who would have you believe that rifle marksmanship technology is transferable to shotgun use. It isn't. Rifle and pistol marksmanship are two-dimensional, static activities. The target stands still.
Shotgun marksmanship is three dimensional. The target moves. It changes direction and dips and climbs and dives. The shot string that emerges from your 12 or 20 gauge shotgun when you pull the trigger is a column 12 or 14 feet long. You take targets by positioning this column where the target is most likely to fly into it.
The 16 gauge has a shorter shot string -- maybe 33% shorter -- so that its typical 1 ounce load has the same pellet density as a 1-1/4 ounce load in a 12 gauge gun!

[Old Ironsights]

I like my 16ga hammer gun way more than I ever liked my 12ga pump...

[86er]

I like the 16 but haven't found that I hit anymore than I do with my 20 in a similarly configured gun. The trend of light 12's that seem to come and go always squashed the weight-saving argument of the 16 fans and the 12 can be loaded to match a 16 exactly and then have less recoil due to the greater bore diameter. On the other end of the spectrum, the 28 bore has similar bore diameter to shot column height ratio as the 16, and it tends to pattern extremely well with less stringing and more even coverage. The 28 in a true scale gun is lighter but then the felt recoil is increased so it can be as much as a 16 depending on the gun and cartridge charge. The 28 with 15/16 oz or 7/8 oz can keep up with a 20 or 16 most of the time. Being in the shotgun business for over 20 years I will say that the 16 draws, and keeps the most devoted followers of any of the shotgun bore sizes! When looking at classic and antique guns I would not let the bore diameter sway my interest. If the right gun happens to be in 16, I'll be shooting the 16 right along side ya! I've had several over the years and still shoot one occassionally although it is my least favorite shotgun, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it is a 16.

[Ray Newman]

As the old timers I knew would say: "The Sixteen -- swings like a twenty; hits like a twelve!"....

[gak]

Love the 16 - my favorite. It's everything (good) folks have said about it. I guess being a 16'er makes me a masochist, but I always seem to be drawn to the "odd ducks" (marketing wise). I think the recent decade's advances in 20 shot pose the greatest real "threat" (vs light 12s), etc,, but I will always have a 16 (or two) in my safe. Right now it's a great Ithaca 37 pump ca 1950s, but I'd love to add a nice double--SxS or OU as well. Long live the 16! Often "out" but never gone.

[OldWin]

I have never been much of a shotgun guy and own fewer of them than either handguns or rifles. That being said I have always loved the 16 since I was very young. My father always used a 16SxS and I guess I caught the same bug. I have 3 of them. The only thing I use them for is partridge and rabbits.

[Mike D.]

This is my favorite 16. A.H.Fox Sterlingworth, vintage 1916. Still a very capable gun after 94 years.

[kaschi]

At one point in its history, weren't 16 Gauge shells a different length than the now standard 2 3/4"? A buddy once had a Winchester Model 12 that, IIRC, would not eject empties as a result. He sold that shotgun for a really cheap price due to that fact. Also, IIRC, a gunsmith later told him that Model 12's could be remedied to successfully extract them.
Anyone know if all this is correct info? My memory's a little fuzzy on this episode that goes back to the 70's.

[Marlin32]

Currently own and shoot five 16ga's. Those nay sayers just don't get it, probably shoot bolt actions too.

You will find a great many lever enthusiasts who also shoot 16's.
I also shoot a 24gauge. So maybe I am just strange.

[cshold]

This is my favorite 16. A.H.Fox Sterlingworth, vintage 1916. Still a very capable gun after 94 years.

Very very sweet, my drool rag is soaked…

[Lefty Dude]

I have replaced all my 12's with 16's. I have several.

My CAS/SASS 16 SXS double I reload & use all brass shells. I just finished reloading 50 rounds today. I have shown several how to reload the brass with Smokless powder & plastic wads. I load 7/8 oz of shoot using Unique powder. My Magtec brass shells are modified and use 209 shotgun primers. MEC makes an adaptor kit for the 600 JR. for reloading the Brass 12 & 16 shells.

With the brass 16's I can duplicate any 12 gauge load.

They also cycle & function well in my Winchester 1897/16 & my 1954 Remington 870/16.

Once you start using all-brass shells, you will never shoot plastics again. If necessary I can take my reloading kit anywhere and reload.

I also have 12 ga. & 410 all brass shells.

[RIHMFIRE]

I have one little 16...I believe it was made in espania...it has "noris" stamped
on the barrel...CC receiver with cheesey engraving...cant find anything on it....
I mainly shoot 12...20 every so often....& dont own a 410 or 28......yet!
I only shoot it once in a blue moon....

[cshold]

At one point in its history, weren't 16 Gauge shells a different length than the now standard 2 3/4"? A buddy once had a Winchester Model 12 that, IIRC, would not eject empties as a result. He sold that shotgun for a really cheap price due to that fact. Also, IIRC, a gunsmith later told him that Model 12's could be remedied to successfully extract them.
Anyone know if all this is correct info? My memory's a little fuzzy on this episode that goes back to the 70's.

Gauge------------From 1900 to 1920-----------------From 1920 to Mid-1930's
10----------------2 7/8",3 1/2"-----------------------3 1/2"
12----------------2",2 1/2",2 5/8",2 3/4",3" -----------2 3/4",3",3 1/2"
16----------------2 9/16",2 3/4"----------------------2 3/4"
20----------------2 1/2",2 9/16",2 3/4",3" ------------2 3/4",3"
28----------------2 3/4",2 7/8"-----------------------2 3/4"
410-------------- 2",2 1/2",3"------------------------3"

[Paul Jenkins]

I had a Browning " Sweet Sixteen" back in the early '60's. Wish I still had it. I hunted it HARD and sent it to Browning in Misouri for a rebuid & refinish. Came back to me as new, NO CHARGE.
If I remember , only 2 9/16ths shell were available in the '60s. Or, maybe I had a 2 9/16" gun and could only use them.Hard to remember back 50 yrs.

[BAGTIC]

Jack O'Connor, described the 16:
"The gauge that shoots like a 12 and kicks like a 20."

The 16 gauge has a shorter shot string -- maybe 33% shorter -- so that its typical 1 ounce load has the same pellet density as a 1-1/4 ounce load in a 12 gauge gun!

The 1 ounce shot string density at game ranges should be very close to the same in both 16 and 12 gauge. There isn't that much difference in the area of the bore and the because of its longer shot column the 16 gauge shot load should spread faster than the 12 gauge's because of its longer shot column.

[chadbr]

Too bad the 16 is "out of fashion" now. Grandad left me a Model 12 in 16ga - so fun to shoot.

The ammo is waaay to expensive now - and hard to find 'ta boot!

One of these days I'll get the time to reload them.

[cshold]

Too bad the 16 is "out of fashion" now. Grandad left me a Model 12 in 16ga - so fun to shoot.

The ammo is waaay to expensive now - and hard to find 'ta boot!

One of these days I'll get the time to reload them.

Not so chadbr, there is very much a resurgence in the 16ga. for numerous reasons.
People are starting to wake up to the fact that the latest and greatest
gun ragged-up 3 ½” super-mags just aren’t all that, nor necessary.

Check out the ammo. section at your local Wally-World next time.

http://www.16ga.com/index.html
http://www.16ga.com/cartridges.html

[Old Ironsights]

On 2-9/16 " 16ga... My drilling ran shorter than that. I order 2-1/2" shells from Polywad

[cshold]

On 2-9/16 " 16ga... My drilling ran shorter than that. I order 2-1/2" shells from Polywad

Two other good places to get low pressure
shells for those sweet old vintage girl’s

http://neweraammunition.com/

http://rstshells.com/index.htm

[Mike D.]

The Philadelphia Sterlingworths had 2 9/16" chambers. My gun retains the original chambers and the shells I use are from a 1945 case of Remington 3 drams equiv, 1 1/8 oz No 5 shot. The shells are in as-new condition and work just fine. This gun is one of three pre-1920 Sterlingworths that I own and shoot on a regular basis. The 20 Ga at bottom has 2 1/2" chambers and before I was aware of that fact it was regularly shot using standard 2 3/4" shells. No harm came to it from this practice, but I no longer use the over length shells. The 12 Ga at the top has standard 2 3/4" chambers and handles all shells, from skeet loads to short magnums.

[cshold]

Yep, there goes another drool rag.

[Mike D.]

I have had the 20 for 45 yrs. It set me back a whole 40 bucks. The 16 came from Pat McMann a dozen or so yrs back. I believe that it was $850 at the time. The 12, also purchased locally was somewhat less, around $550, IIRC. These are not mint guns in any way, but rather well used and maintained, retaining much original varnish and barrel blue. The case colors have faded out, as is typical. The chambers and bores are excellent.

[Tumbleweeds II]

My 12 ga. SW has 2 1/2" chambers, and my gunsmith has another made the same year (1926 IIRC) that has the same. Those guns are so near alike that it's tempting to buy his and make a composed pair. Since I don't do driven shoots (because I haven't been invited), I need that like a hog needs a sidesaddle, so I've resisted so far.

Shells came in all sorts of lengths in the black powder days. There were 12 ga guns in every length from 2" to 3", 10 ga guns in 2 7/8", and so on. Offering such a wide variety of ammo cut into profits, so the manufacturers had breakfast together sometime in the 1930s and decided on some standard lengths, which persist today with only a couple of additions like 3" 20 and 12 ga shells, and 3 1/2" 12 ga shells.

Short chambered 16 ga Model 12s and Browning autos can be opened to eject 2 3/4" shells, but collectors take dollars off values when that is done. Besides, you can just order 2 1/2" shells from Polywad, including spreader loads, and go hunting.

A shooter who lives in a country in which ammo selection is quite limited came up with a solution for his auto. He used a round saw, like a hole saw, to cut a 1/4" ring part way through the crimp on the front of the shell, right in the center. That scrap of plastic came off when he fired and went out the muzzle with the shot and wad, and the case would eject. Since he couldn't buy reloading supplies, the fact that his spent hull was ragged didn't matter.

[vancelw]

Too bad the 16 is "out of fashion" now. Grandad left me a Model 12 in 16ga - so fun to shoot.

The ammo is waaay to expensive now - and hard to find 'ta boot!

One of these days I'll get the time to reload them.

Last year I ordered several boxes and actually paid less per box than I would have if I had found them locally -which I couldn't have. Shipping was less than sales tax in my instance.

I hated to pay $6.25 a box when I used to pay $3.25, but that was 35 years ago. I make a little more money now than I did when I was 12 and scraped up every penny I could to buy 16 ga. shells for my old Columbia single barrel. I finally got bored shooting it when I ran outa snakes

[Mike D.]

Eventually, I will have my SWs chambers opened to accept off the shelf shells. Collector value has never been a consideration for me.

[Mac in Mo]

I bought my 16 about ten years ago and love it. I use it mainly for rabbits hunted over the dogs, but reach for it first for squirrels as well. It is a JC Higgins made by AYA in the fifties. It is light and hits hard. Swings like a dream. I'll never give it up unless one of the boys wants it. I also have a Winchester 37. I have never even fired it since I brought it home. Unfortunately it sustained some rust/pitting in a water leak last year that went unnoticed for a while. It is shootable but doesn't look as good as it did, not that it was a museum piece to begin with.
I have a good stock of shells on hand, for years I would pick up a few boxes every time I was at the gun store. My experience has been that the loads with the chilled shot seem to pattern better.


Kevin