Marlin 93: can't find serial number !!

[DennisT]

I have an old Marlin model 93 in 32-40. I can't find the serial number. It is not under the lever or top tang or bottom tang. Not on receiver, either side. Not forward of receiver on underside. Not on top. Not under handguard. What am I missing?

This rifle has round barrel. It does not say model 93 anywhere, other fellows told me it was a 93 due to the patent info stamped on top of barrel. If fact, it does not have an actual, "Model No.," anywhere. Has, "Marlin Safety," on top of receiver. No stampings on top rearward tang like most Marlins I've seen.

I'm confused. Thoughts appreciated,
Dennis

[bsaride]

post some pics and see if the experts can help ya

[mouthpiece]

Lunch-box gun?

[pwl44m]

Some early 22s didn't have ser #s. I'm not sure about centerfire rifles. Wasn't there a Gun just called a Safety ? Still Pics would Help Immensely. Lunch Box !!? They wouldn't do that- would They ?

[DennisT]

Thanks guys. I'll try to get some photos posted, although the rifle looks to me like most every other Marlin lever of that vintage.

Someone out there will be familiar with where serial numbers are or where they are not.

Cheers,
Dennis

[DennisT]

OK; I'm slow. Just figured out what you both meant by lunch box gun. Slipped out of the factory unauthorized.

So how does that affect value on any given rifle?

Dennis

[Hobie]

OK; I'm slow. Just figured out what you both meant by lunch box gun. Slipped out of the factory unauthorized.

So how does that affect value on any given rifle?

Dennis

Depends on the rifle, might depend on the provenance. The more you know the better.

[Hawkeye2]

Serial numbers on .22s and shotguns were not required prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA 68) though most of the big name manufacturers did number their guns. Not numbering the gun was a way to cut costs but probably made it difficult to track production.

[pwl44m]

One of My Colt 45 ACP frames is thought to maybe be a Lunch Box Gun.

[jdad]

The buttstock should have a serial, in the top inletted area.

[cowboykell]

The side of the top tang that is covered by the stock should have a serial number.

[mouthpiece]

During WWII, OSS, the predecessor of the CIA, had guns made without any markings, to disguise athe origin of the weapon. I've seen pistols witout serial #'s sold as OSS guns. I didn't have enough backround to opine if it was a spy pistol or one ripped off from the factory. Maybe you indeed have something really unique.

You shouldn't sell it to anybodybut me.

[DennisT]

All good information, thanks everyone. I ran into a glitch: I was considering removing the buttstock to examine the tangs for numbers. For a test, I tried the single butt retaining screw and it turned out a turn without difficulity. I ran it back in and happened to flip the lever down a little while doing it. Now it's stuck party open. Lever is down about an inch or more at the rear and will now not go up or down. I removed the large lever pivot screw but it's not open enough to release. What did I do? This rifle has always functioned flawlessly and I'm not about to force anything. Will the butt stock come off without disassemblying any of the rest of the rifle? If so, and I do that, can I reach anything in the receiver to release the lever?

I'm feeling dumb at this point.

Dennis

[Buffboy]

The buttstock will come off with no other disassembly of the rifle. One screw, slide it off is how it's removed(exceptions for tang sight screws that may also go into the wood, though that shouldn't be a problem for the original "plug" screws). Did you try loosening the buttstock screw again? Perhaps there is a sliver of wood that was loose and migrated when you loosened it or you over tightened it. If the underlying wood has deteriorated it is "possible" that you could tighten enough that the lower tang moved enough to bind. This should only happen if the other screws that hold the lower tang in place were loose as well.

[jdad]

The tang screw does nothing more than hold the butt stock on.

Are there any screws loose, on the receiver?

[Buffboy]

If after the stock is removed, the action still won't move, on the action, loosen(1/2 - 3/4 turn) the screw that is just above the trigger, the one on the opposite side above the lever pivot and the one on the bottom just before the forend. This should allow you to move the lower tang enough that it should quit binding.

Edit: Duh, I should probably add that, if that frees the action, snug those screws back up (don't go nuts here, but get them tight), make sure the action functions correctly, then,,, put the stock back on. IIRC I've run into this problem with my Dad's 1893 long ago(don't recall it with any of mine). This can happen (though rarely) with all the marlin levers if the stock inletting is a little loose and those screws holding the lower tang in place are loose. The stock screw holds the stock by clamping and can move the lower tang when tightened, sometimes enough to bind the action.

[DennisT]

Thanks again; good info. I hope this thread doesn't get buried so far down that we loose attention to it.........

Quickly: I did what you both said and it is still stuck.

First, I removed the butt stock. It came off easily with removal of the one screw. Good solid wood. That made no difference. The good thing is that on the upper tang, left side is the number: 1070xx. Interestingly, I found that same number on the inside of, and on the butt plate a couple days ago. I have no reason to not believe that is the serial number. Since I continue to have the stuck lever problem, perhaps it can now be encouraging to at least learn the vintage/mfg. date of this rifle. ???

Back to the lever: next I loosened the screw bboy suggested just above the trigger. Next, there is no screw on the opposite side above the lever pivot, (no screw head at all on that side of the receiver). (?) I loosened a screw just below the the hammer, the screw on the bottom, just rear of the handguard and a final screw amidships in the middle, side of the receiver. Now I can rock the lower tang full length to the fore-end, but it doesn't help.

Measuring from the rear of the lower tang, inside, to the upper rear end of the lever, the lever is stuck 1.25 inches down. It moves back and forth a quarter-inch or so, but always meets solid resistance from within the receiver. I think something is in there preventing return movement and also preventing swinging the lever on down to retract the bolt rearward. I'm sure I didn't break anything as all my manipulations of the rifle were made without force of any kind. That being said, I wonder if something was inside all along and dropped into a place jamming the lever's operation.

So my next question is obviously what to do. I wonder what would happen if I removed all the screws in the hope all parts can be withdrawn?? Or would things then be out of place such that my situation is worse?

Looking inside the receiver from the now open rear, I can see a slight film of Lubriplate so I know when I got this rifle and cleaned it up, ( it was rough !! ), I lubed it. So that means I've been inside before and it went back together to operate well since.

????

Getting frustrated.

Dennis

[J Miller]

Dennis,

What to do now? Take it apart, all the way. They are very simple.

My 1894 jammed once on me when I short stroked the lever. Pretty much exactly as you described. I had to pull the lever, and the bolt then reassemble it. Somehow the lever and the carrier rocker got crossed up and it was STUCK.

Take it apart, clean really good the carrier rocker then lube it and put the rifle back together.

I'll be it works then.

Or bring it over to my house and we can both tinker with it

Joe

[jdad]

The positive news is that you have a second year (1894) of production 1893.

[Buffboy]

Looks like Joe told you the good news . He's right, they aren't very complicated. Only screw I would worry about is the little one in the center (right side) of the receiver. That holds the loading gate. It can be a pain sometimes to get started again putting it back together. They can be pretty easy to cross thread and strip. Go easy and make sure it's started correctly before tightening it back up. You don't need to mess with the forend wood to take it apart. Take your time and it'll go fine.

I thought about adding "on the receiver" for that screw above the lever pivot but since it is the only factory screw on that side, figured you'd figure it out and didn't go back to edit. Needed to go to work and was out of time.

After thinking about it, I'm thinking the lower tang was replaced at some time far in the past and that is why there is no serial number on it. I'm not sure a factory replacement part would have a number and that's where they are, on mine anyway(pre 1910).

[DennisT]

First.........got it! It's all apart. Only place I had to be careful was where I used a pair of cushioned flats to hold the mainspring while I removed the pivot screw. Good condition inside but I can see I didn't take it this far down when I got the rifle and stripped it for lube. Plenty lubrication in the right places, but I'll rub everything down this time and recoat. I can't tell what went wrong but I'll bet with correct re-assembly it'll be fine.

Is there a posted run-down on re-assembly anywhere? I didn't exactly strip the poor thing the right way so going backwards isn't the thing to do.

SO ! Second year of production? Wow, that pleases me. I guess I thought it would have had a hex barrel back then, but I'm really green on 93 Marlin's. So you two found that by the 1070xx number? Is that a complete s/n number then?

I need to sell a couple things and begin looking for a hex barrel 93. But I'll put up a new post on that quest.

Thanks, I'm off to look for re-assembly info.

Dennis

[Buffboy]

There was another ejector on the real early ones that I've never dealt with (that may apply to yours, don't remember the cutoff date) but if you can find the 336 (or current 1894) assembly instructions, it should do for the 1893. At least I can't think of any major assembly difference off the top of my head.

Oh, and they are Octagon (8 sides), not Hexagon (6 sides), barrels.

I understand about wanting another. They are neat old rifles.

[DennisT]

Well, I just re-assembled my rifle and it went well. Action smooth as glass. I'm happy. Thanks for all the help. I'll look for another Marlin and see what happens. When the time and deal is right I'm sure something will come along.

Dennis

[J Miller]

Well, I just re-assembled my rifle and it went well. Action smooth as glass. I'm happy. Thanks for all the help. I'll look for another Marlin and see what happens. When the time and deal is right I'm sure something will come along.

Dennis

Dennis,

After all is said and done, I'll bet the lever got short stroked when you were trying to get the stock off. That seems to be a biggg oops with a Marlin.

At least now you know how they come apart and go back together

Joe

[Malamute]

It may have been the lifter as was mentioned, but I vaguely recall seeing a Marlin jammed up in a similar situation, gun upside down, starting to work the lever then closing it. I think the locking bolt started to come down, released from the lever, then the notch on the lever hung up on it in a way that wouldnt let it move. I think I moved the bolt from below with a small screwdriver and got it freed up. I believe it was someone elses gun they showed me. Was 20-some years ago.