What to shoot in a Marlin 1889?

[cubrock]

I have a 24" Marlin 1889 .38-40 and I've been pondering shooting it. Is there reliable load data out there on what this model can handle? It would be neat to be able to hunt deer with it, but I surely don't want to hurt the gun by shooting loads that it can't withstand. I have some Winchester 180-grain softpoints laying around, but I imagine this should mostly be a cast bullet gun.

All thoughts and info appreciated. Thanks!

PS - I'm not a max loader by nature, so I'm not looking for what I can "hot rod" through the gun. Just want to get a realistic look at its performance potential, particularly in the arena of taking a small eastern US deer with it. I don't want to do anything to harm gun or shooter - just targets and game.

[w30wcf]

cubrock,
Although I am a cast bullet shooter, personally, I see no harm in shooting jacketed bullets in vintage rifles. Way back in 1894 when the first smokeless .38-40 factory cartridge was introduced, it contained a 180 gr jacketed bullet @ 1,300 f.p.s.

An older Hercules manual shows 10.3/ Blue Dot and 13.0/2400 producing 1,305 f.p.s. with a 180 gr jacketed bullet in a 24" barrel. Add about 50 f.p.s. for a cast bullet.

The 38-40 HV (High Velocity) factory .38-40 cartridge debuted in the early 1900's and the cataloged velocity was a bit over 1,700 f.p.s. with a 180 gr. jacketed bullet. It was intended for the Marlins and 1892 Winchesters but not the 1873 Winchester.

A friend has an 1889 Marlin .38-40. Unfortunately, the bore is one of the worst I have ever seen....the rifling has actually rusted away in some places! Understandably, factory 38-40 jacketed ammo produced 6"+ groups at 25 yards

After some experimenting, we found that a certain load of 4227 topped by PSB (Poly Shot Buffer) under the Lyman 40143 Lyman cast bullet produced 1" groups. Quite a change! THe PSB acted as a gas seal to allow the bullet to transend the barrel untouched by powder gases. Velocity ran 1,570 f.p.s.

w30wcf

[jdad]

The problem is that the 1889 barrels were made of comparatively soft steel and jacketed rounds will wear the bores out.

[Griff]

Load for it with loads safe for a Colt SAA and if the gun's in good condition ( headspace, etc.) it should be fine. As John indicated, avoid anything you find labeled "HV".

[OldWin]

I have one of these rifles in 38-40 and it shoots extremely well. I've only ever shot Lyman's old 401043 over 8-9 grains of Unique but I would have no reservations about shooting a deer with this rifle-load combination.

[Sixgun]

I have one of these rifles in 38-40 and it shoots extremely well. I've only ever shot Lyman's old 401043 over 8-9 grains of Unique but I would have no reservations about shooting a deer with this rifle-load combination.

In responding to the above post I was thinking of what to say. Old Win. said it for me almost word for word. The only difference is that I use a Lyman mould for the 40 S&W in my 1889. Its eaten up well over 3K of these. I even went to 10 grains for awhile with no noticeable signs of excess pressure.

It really pays to buy old loading manuals whenever you can. These manuals were wrote when the old guns were being used. But you do have to "read between the lines", especially when the old manuals suggest 24 gr. of 2400 in the 44-40---don't do what I just wrote. -----------Sixgun

[cubrock]

Thanks, all!

[OldWin]

Sixgun made an excellent point. I use these old manuals all the time, especially 20 years ago before these old cartridges came back in style. He is also right in the fact that there are some EXTREMELY hot loads so use caution.

[w30wcf]

Regarding the use of jacketed bullets in vintage rifles......the steel, although inferior to current mfg. is much harder than a jacketed bullet. Personally I have fired upwards of 1,000 jacketed bullets along with about 2,500 cast bullets through my '73 Winchester made in 1882 and I can detect no change in the internal barrel dimensions. The rifle still shoots great....

w30wcf

[rusty gunns]

I have a Marlin 1889 in 38-40. On a one to 10, its probably a 7 or 7.5 The bore is an 8. A little rough with strong rifling.

Shooting .401 lrfn 180 gr bullets would print all over the target at 25 yards, Half of them missed completely. I also learned that my 89 does not like black powder. (Two rounds and it becomes a smooth bore.)

.403 bullets got me on the paper but still all over the place, so I slugged the barrel to find it .406 at the lands.

I invested in a Lee sizer kit and had them make me a die to size down to .405. ($29 directly from Lee)

I buy 195 gr Keith style bullets from Western Bullet Company ($10 per hundred) made from a Lee# 90330 .410 mold and size them down.

http://www.westernbullet.com/lee9195gr.html

With that bullet over 7.7 to 8 gr of Unique, (About 780 t0 850 fps) I get 1.5 inch 5 shot groups at 25 yards off a sand bag.

SAAMI for that round is 14,000 This load is under 13,000

(I bought some 175 gr .410 fp bb bullets that, once sized down, gave me 1 inch groups at closer to 900 fps, but with no crimping groove, I found that even after using a crimping die,the rounds in the tube can push into the brass on recoil. That could make excess pressure for an old gun.)

And I'm sure there are other members that can give you better safe hunting loads.

I also have an 89 in 44-40. It too has a slightly oversize bore.

So it may be wise to slug the barrel to find your rifle's bore before you decide which slug you want to use.

But once you iron out the kinks, you will love that round.