Win94AE(45Colt) cartridges launching out of action & XPB pic

[Stump Buster]

Hey Guys,

I was at the range this morning shooting a variety of 45Colt loads out of my USFA Rodeo and my WinM94AE (pre-crossbolt) Wrangler. When I cycled the action of the 94, the empty would exrtact and eject normally, but every once in a while the next live cartridge would launch out of the top of the action as I'd close the bolt. I've noticed this before with Keith style SWC's and figured it was just a bullet issue, but it was happening intermittantly with everything I tested today (RN, JWC, JHP, XPB) whether I cycled the lever fast or slow. Any ideas suggestions before I drive it up to Jack Huntington?

As a side note, if you're looking for an impressive HP design, the Cor-Bon loaded 225gr XPB expanded picture perfect in the mud berm on the range. The recoil was surprisingly more noticeable compared to the 255gr Keith loaded to the same velocity. Here's an old picture of the guns and few of a recovered and cleaned up XPB bullet from today's shooting session...






THANKS!!!

[JerryB]

Don't know what took place in your rifle, but that is one good looking bullet.

[Tycer]

A shim behind one of the cartridge guides will fix your problem.

[J Miller]

I was pretty much thinking the same thing that Tycer said. But I have no idea how thick to make the shim or which guide to put it under.
My 94AE Trapper .45 rarely does that, and usually only when I short stroke it followed by a snappy jerk to the lever.

Them are some nasty looking hollow points there.

Joe

[kimwcook]

Beautiful expansion. I don't know what's going on with your action.

[new pig hunter]

I have a Trapper and I'm definitely interested in learning about this shim solution. A tutorial of sorts would be most welcome.

Cheers,

Carl

[Chas.]

No slippers?

[jd45]

This is just a SWAG, but my Rossi '92's left cartridge guide has a hinged, curved front portion, spring-loaded from behind, (against the inside wall of the receiver) that prevents a cartridge from coming out of the mag until you "ask" for it. It could be that the '94 is designed similarly. Might be a place to start. Good luck, jd45

[J Miller]

This is just a SWAG, but my Rossi '92's left cartridge guide has a hinged, curved front portion, spring-loaded from behind, (against the inside wall of the receiver) that prevents a cartridge from coming out of the mag until you "ask" for it. It could be that the '94 is designed similarly. Might be a place to start. Good luck, jd45

Nope, the 94s cartridge stop is completely different from the 92s. The stop on the 94 is on the top front of the link. And that's not what is causing the bottom round to pop out of the receiver.
I'm not sure is a cartridge length issue either, although it could be. This is one thing I've never had enough experience with to know for sure.

Joe

[Griff]

Let's see, where to begin?

Hey Guys,
I was at the range this morning shooting a variety of 45Colt loads out of my USFA Rodeo and my WinM94AE (pre-crossbolt) Wrangler. When I cycled the action of the 94, the empty would exrtact and eject normally, but every once in a while the next live cartridge would launch out of the top of the action as I'd close the bolt. I've noticed this before with Keith style SWC's and figured it was just a bullet issue, but it was happening intermittantly with everything I tested today (RN, JWC, JHP, XPB) whether I cycled the lever fast or slow. Any ideas suggestions before I drive it up to Jack Huntington?

When you say "launch", do you mean the entire cartridge, as in "ejected? Or is it just the nose sticking straight up as in "stove-piped"? Does the errant cartridge ever flip around backwards? Have you inventoried the internal parts of your gun? It sorta sounds as tho' you've lost a guide. With action open,slowly close the action, does the carrier just fall, or is there still spring tension? Also, when this happens, is there ever a second round on the carrier?

When you look down into the top of the action, you should see the lifter, both right & left guides and the ejector protruding from the front of the bolt, like so:


I'll have to take one that shows the front of the bolt with proper extractor & ejector alignment. The AE extractor is just slightly offset, and I doubt it's at issue. I'll get the pic up later this afternnon.

[J Miller]

These are pics of the inside of the action on my 94AE .45 Colt.

The first pic is looking a the breach face from the right front. You can see the extractor on the upper corner of the bolt and the offset ejector at the bottom as well as the left cartridge guide.

AE 45 - bolt face r forward a web.JPG

The second pics is looking straight down on the lifter. You can also see both cartridge guides and the extractor and ejector.

AE 45 - bolt face straight down web.JPG

The third pic is looking down from the front. You can clearly see the extractor, ejector, and both cartridge guides.

AE 45 - bolt face top forward web.JPG

This is what you should see when you look into the action. Anything odd or different could be a cause of your problems.

Griff, I beat cha. Haha.

Joe

[jd45]

WAY TO POST THOSE PICS, JOE!! Wish I had that capability, jd45

[Stump Buster]

Let's see, where to begin?

Hey Guys,
I was at the range this morning shooting a variety of 45Colt loads out of my USFA Rodeo and my WinM94AE (pre-crossbolt) Wrangler. When I cycled the action of the 94, the empty would exrtact and eject normally, but every once in a while the next live cartridge would launch out of the top of the action as I'd close the bolt. I've noticed this before with Keith style SWC's and figured it was just a bullet issue, but it was happening intermittantly with everything I tested today (RN, JWC, JHP, XPB) whether I cycled the lever fast or slow. Any ideas suggestions before I drive it up to Jack Huntington?

When you say "launch", do you mean the entire cartridge, as in "ejected? Or is it just the nose sticking straight up as in "stove-piped"? Does the errant cartridge ever flip around backwards? Have you inventoried the internal parts of your gun? It sorta sounds as tho' you've lost a guide. With action open,slowly close the action, does the carrier just fall, or is there still spring tension? Also, when this happens, is there ever a second round on the carrier?

When you look down into the top of the action, you should see the lifter, both right & left guides and the ejector protruding from the front of the bolt, like so:


I'll have to take one that shows the front of the bolt with proper extractor & ejector alignment. The AE extractor is just slightly offset, and I doubt it's at issue. I'll get the pic up later this afternnon.

THANKS for all the replies AND pics guys!!! I'll take a look at my 94 after I finish typing this to see if anything looks out of the ordinary.

Griff....Yes, the next fully assembled cartridge ejects from the action and winds up on the ground with the last fired case that was exracted from the chamber. It happens so fast, I miss the cartridge jumping out of the action it when cycling and shooting. I find out only after I get a "Click" instead of the expected "Bang". It does help let you know if you're anticipating the shot, but It's sure frustrating when you're just out to have some fun and test some different loads!!! I'd hate to have it happen at the wrong time. SO far, no stovepipes or flipped cartridges jamming anything up (knock on stock).

Stump

[Hagler]

Stump,

Maybe, you have loose, or missing, CARTRIDGE GUIDE screws. Here are pictures of my 1975-vintage Model 94's receiver, guide screws in RED SQUARES:

Receiver Left Cart guide screw marked.jpg

Receiver Right cart guide screw marked.jpg

Here is a look into the bare receiver, showing the slot/ groove for the lefthand cartridge guide, and its hole:

Bare Receiver looking through loading port.jpg

...and, in a box of parts, one of the cartridge guides:

Cartridge Guide in box.jpg

Shawn

[Stump Buster]

Hey Guys,

Snuck out to the range this morning with the Winchester and tightened the CARTRIDGE GUIDE SCREWS prior to shooting the little carbine...and WALAH!!!!...No more ejection/feeding issues!!!!! The lever seemed to cycle smoother too, so everything is well with the universe! Thank you all for the help!!!!!!

Have a Very Merry Christmas,

Mike

[J Miller]

Hey Guys,

Snuck out to the range this morning with the Winchester and tightened the CARTRIDGE GUIDE SCREWS prior to shooting the little carbine...and WALAH!!!!...No more ejection/feeding issues!!!!! The lever seemed to cycle smoother too, so everything is well with the universe! Thank you all for the help!!!!!!

Have a Very Merry Christmas,

Mike

Mike,
Thanks for the update. It's always good to know the rest of the story.
Now to find a tiny screwdriver so I can check my cartridge guide screws.

Merry Christmas to you too.

Joe