Model 92 question

[DLMcDorman]

I have been looking at a model 92 in 45 colt to go with my new vaqueros. I am confused though by the changes in name , ownership, manufacturer etc. of the various offerings.
Rossi, Brastech, Puma, Legacy, Taurus, Chiappi, etc. Which ones are current manufacture and how can you tell who manufactured the old ones. From what I have read in the posts quality can be quite variable based on which gun you get.

Can you guys offer any advice.

I gess the other option is to pick up a Browning or Winchester in 44mag.

What are your thoughts?

[Rube Burrows]

I have been looking at a model 92 in 45 colt to go with my new vaqueros. I am confused though by the changes in name , ownership, manufacturer etc. of the various offerings.
Rossi, Brastech, Puma, Legacy, Taurus, Chiappi, etc. Which ones are current manufacture and how can you tell who manufactured the old ones. From what I have read in the posts quality can be quite variable based on which gun you get.

Can you guys offer any advice.

I gess the other option is to pick up a Browning or Winchester in 44mag.

What are your thoughts?

I have pretty much one of all of them with the exception of the Taurus. When I can I try to find the older Rossi 92s because they dont have the safety on them. Im not a fan of the safety on a lever gun. I do have a Brastech Rossi though with the safety and I have been using it as a main match gun. Its in .45 Colt and a Hartford model. I have not broke down and got me a 73 yet and since im not setting any world records my 92s work just fine. I really like the older Rossi rifles imported by Interarms because they usually have the dark wood which I love. I have a really nice .357 with Octagon barrel its an EMF Hartford and one of the slickest rifles I have.

I have never had a single problem with any of them. No feeding problems, not malfunctions....nothing. I have one .357 that is a little stiff but cycles everything just fine.

Here are a couple pics of a few of them.

[DPris]

The Brazillian Rossi 92s are the most common & have been imported under other brand names by EMF, Interarms, Legacy Sports, Navy Arms & so on. Each importer would set out their own specs & Rossi would build guns to those specs for that importer.

There's been at least a loose relationship between Rossi & Taurus & BrazTech for several years.

Legacy Sports has owned the brand rights to the Puma trademark for quite a while, and until about 18-24 months ago imported Rossi 92s under that brand marque.
They discontinued the Rossi relationship & have been importing Italian 92s made by Chiappa for the past year or so.
The Chiappas are a higher quality overall, with genuine walnut, and truer frame contours.
Legacy is applying their Puma brand to the new Chiappas, so you may find that a Puma 92 can be either a Rossi or a Chiappa.
Puma is not a manufacturer.

I have a Puma 92 made by Rossi & sold by Legacy, decent quality. I have a Chiappa Bounty Hunter (Mare's Leg, but still a 92 variant & representational) from Legacy that's very nice. I have a brand new Rossi Ranch Hand (Mare's Leg, still a 92 variant) from Rossi USA that's pretty decent.

No experience with EMF or Navy versions. Saw several Rossis at an old Interarms SHOT Show booth several years ago that looked pretty good, never fired one.
Denis

[DLMcDorman]

Thanks DPRIS thats the most info I've heard yet.

[DPris]

Sure, hope it helps.
Denis

[MikeB]

Do the Chiappa Pumas have safety?

In fact, are there any 92s being sold now that have nothing but "John Browning designed" parts in them?

[DPris]

Chiappas do not have extraneous safeties.

Winchester-marked 92s made by Miroku in Japan sporadically now have the sliding tang safety.

Current Rossi 92s do have the little wingding safety on top of the breechbolt.

I believe each maker alters a bit here & there, don't think much is interchangeable with original Winchester 92s.

Denis

[gak]

A tell tale sign of the Interarms era Rossis (carbines at least) are front barrel-band mounted front sights (like some 73s) combined with no safety. LSI (Legacy Sports International) took over from Inerarms in the 90s as the largest importer and with that changeover brought with them the aforementioned unfortunate safety (you can find many posts/threads about how this is fixable btw). Meanwhile, EMF 1892--also known by the "Hartford" moniker--and Navy Arms 1892 provided guns w/o the safety switch until the former "had" to also add it in mid 2006, and the latter got out of the 92 business about the same time. These importers also sported better rear buckhorn sights and "proper" front sight location off the band.

In 2009 LSI (http://www.legacysports.com) started to import the Italian 1892 made by Chiappa/Armi Sport. Taylors (http://www.taylorsfirearms.com) and Cimarron (http://www.cimarron-firearms.com) had already been doing that for a year or two.

+1 Puma is just a model name, originally used by Rossi/Interarms, and carried over by LSI. Contrary to popular myth, not all 92s are "Pumas," but like Coke, many folks have come to call them that regardless of the importer, or even manufacturer. You can still find some NOS LSI "Pumas" out there--virtually identical to the current Rossi/Braztech guns. The reason is that they *are* the same gun. If a "Puma" is listed under $650 or so new it is more than likely the Rossi variant as the Italian jobs are pricier.

Generally, a Rossi is a Rossi is a Rossi. Some have found the later Braztech era ones to be smoother out of the box and that earlier ones needed a little attention to make them "just so," but my dozen or so Interarms and pre-safety EMFs have been great for the most part. All my Interarms guns are early models with fairly nice stocks. In the last five or so years of the Interarms franchise, the guns had an odd and unfortunate "mystery wood" near-black stain. Some have found fairly decent stocks underneath when they've stripped this finish. About the same time, most carbines started coming without the saddle ring, added back in later by EMF and Navy Arms on many carbines.

Our resident 92 expert Steve Young (Nate Kiowa Jones) found some small bits on (at least) the early Chiappa/Armi Sport guns not to his liking. I don't know if they've "fixed" these parts to his satisfaction, but he was subsequently asked by them to check out their current 1886 effort, so maybe they have listened on his 92 remarks as well. Otherwise, as was mentioned they are fine pieces that are more original--at least cosmetically--than even the Rossis, including period-correct (1892-1930 or so) carbine ladder sights. A first on a 92 since the original Winchesters over 70 years ago.

IIRC, with the take over 18-24 months ago of all Rossi imports by Rossi-Braztech itself, EMF (http://www.emf-company.com) started scaling back its 92 sales and, I believe, has also now ended its 92 relationship with Rossi. Any EMF 1892s you find now are likely NOS.
EDIT: A quick check shows they're still listing them, but effectively with the above disclaimer/caveat--limited to stock on hand. A worthwhile check out (there at EMF or on GB, etc.) though, as I believe they still have better carbine sights and some I've seen (including mine) with nicer wood. Then all you have to do is deal with the ?@#?! safety

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

A tell tale sign of the Interarms era Rossis (carbines at least) are front barrel-band mounted front sights (like some 73s) combined with no safety. LSI (Legacy Sports International) took over from Inerarms in the 90s as the largest importer and with that changeover brought with them the aforementioned unfortunate safety (you can find many posts/threads about how this is fixable btw). Meanwhile, EMF 1892--also known by the "Hartford" moniker--and Navy Arms 1892 provided guns w/o the safety switch until the former "had" to also add it in mid 2006, and the latter got out of the 92 business about the same time. These importers also sported better rear buckhorn sights and "proper" front sight location off the band.

In 2009 LSI (http://www.legacysports.com) started to import the Italian 1892 made by Chiappa/Armi Sport. Taylors (http://www.taylorsfirearms.com) and Cimarron (http://www.cimarron-firearms.com) had already been doing that for a year or two.

+1 Puma is just a model name, originally used by Rossi/Interarms, and carried over by LSI. Contrary to popular myth, not all 92s are "Pumas," but like Coke, many folks have come to call them that regardless of the importer, or even manufacturer. You can still find some NOS LSI "Pumas" out there--virtually identical to the current Rossi/Braztech guns. The reason is that they *are* the same gun. If a "Puma" is listed under $650 or so new it is more than likely the Rossi variant as the Italian jobs are pricier.

Generally, a Rossi is a Rossi is a Rossi. Some have found the later Braztech era ones to be smoother out of the box and that earlier ones needed a little attention to make them "just so," but my dozen or so Interarms and pre-safety EMFs have been great for the most part. All my Interarms guns are early models with fairly nice stocks. In the last five or so years of the Interarms franchise, the guns had an odd and unfortunate "mystery wood" near-black stain. Some have found fairly decent stocks underneath when they've stripped this finish. About the same time, most carbines started coming without the saddle ring, added back in later by EMF and Navy Arms on many carbines.

Our resident 92 expert Steve Young (Nate Kiowa Jones) found some small bits on (at least) the early Chiappa/Armi Sport guns not to his liking. I don't know if they've "fixed" these parts to his satisfaction, but he was subsequently asked by them to check out their current 1886 effort, so maybe they have listened on his 92 remarks as well. Otherwise, as was mentioned they are fine pieces that are more original--at least cosmetically--than even the Rossis, including period-correct (1892-1930 or so) carbine ladder sights. A first on a 92 since the original Winchesters over 70 years ago.

IIRC, with the take over 18-24 months ago of all Rossi imports by Rossi-Braztech itself, EMF (http://www.emf-company.com) started scaling back its 92 sales and, I believe, has also now ended its 92 relationship with Rossi. Any EMF 1892s you find now are likely NOS.
EDIT: A quick check shows they're still listing them, but effectively with the above disclaimer/caveat--limited to stock on hand. A worthwhile check out (there at EMF or on GB, etc.) though, as I believe they still have better carbine sights and some I've seen (including mine) with nicer wood. Then all you have to do is deal with the ?@#?! safety

I pretty much agree with the above. I would add, because Rossi re-tooled about then the pre-2000 Rossi made 92's are much smoother than the older InterArms guns.

The Chiappa guns are much better fit and finish but they have had some functional problem. The Chiappa folks are working on those issues.
The Rossi made guns are not finished near as nice but that is also what adds the most cost to a new gun. So, that is mainly why they are less money.

If you are interested I have some of the EMF imported Rossi's in 45lc.
I just finished this one for myself.

[Canuck Bob]

The fellow above this post is the man to ask for service and advice. He generously helped me even though I'm in Canada and can't give him any real business.

[DLMcDorman]

Guys,
Thanks very much for the info. I never really understood the relationships before.