OT - New California Law for 2011

[COSteve]

Sucks to live in Comifornia!!

New state law for 2011.

AB 962 (Stats. 2009, ch. 628)
Handgun ammunition must be displayed in a manner that makes the ammunition inaccessible to a purchaser or transferee, and requires the assistance of the vendor or an employee of the vendor. (§ 12061.)*1
An employee of a handgun ammunition vendor, who is prohibited from possessing firearms, cannot handle, sell, or deliver handgun ammunition in the course and scope of his or her employment. (§ 12061.)
No one shall supply, deliver, or give ammunition to a minor who is prohibited from possessing ammunition pursuant to section 12101. (§ 12316.)
Any person who is enjoined from engaging in activity associated with a criminal street gang is prohibited from possessing ammunition. A violation is a misdemeanor. (§ 12316.)
Beginning February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of handgun ammunition must occur in a face-to-face transaction, with the recipient providing bona fide evidence of his or her identity and age, subject to specified exceptions. Non-face-to-face transfers, such as internet transactions and mail order deliveries are prohibited.*A violation is a misdemeanor. (§ 12318.)
Beginning February 1, 2011, handgun ammunition vendors must obtain a thumbprint and other information related to handgun ammunition transactions subject to specified exceptions (including transfers to ce officers who are authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope their duties). The information must be retained by the vendor for five years from the date of the transaction.

[Mike D.]

With diligent pressure from CalGuns, CRPA, NRA, and other pro-gun organizations we may yet see this onerous and self serving legislation overturned. This is merely another do nothing feel good piece of garbage from a vote grabbing Democrat.

[J Miller]

With diligent pressure from CalGuns, CRPA, NRA, and other pro-gun organizations we may yet see this onerous and self serving legislation overturned. This is merely another do nothing feel good piece of garbage from a vote grabbing Democrat.

And the RINO that signed it into office.

I'm wishing you CA residents all the luck and help from above you can get.

Joe

[jnyork]

I cant see very many places continuing to sell handgun ammo with the fingerprint requirement, etc., there isnt THAT much profit in it. Reno, Las Vegas and Klamath Falls gunshops will likely see a sharp uptick in business.

I get a case of the sad's every time something like this comes up, California used to be a wonderful place.

[COSteve]

I get a case of the sad's every time something like this comes up, California used to be a wonderful place.

I grew up in NorCal (Campbell) until 1980. When I moved there in '56 as a 9 yr old boy, it was idyllic but by the late '70s it was obvious that the state was headed down a path I didn't want anything to do with. So when I got the chance to relocate with work, I packed up the wife and moved to Colorado.

While I miss the 'idea' of California, the state I knew as a boy doesn't exist anymore. Very sad.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

That's going to really put a crimp into the sale of .22LR out there. Too bad it's considered handgun ammo in most places.

[adirondakjack]

What's more, because of very confusing verbiage, it may well end sales of components for reloading via mail or UPS/Fedex as well. Without going back through it. There is one place that says sale of "ammunition" has to be FTF, and yet ONLY in the subsection regarding possession by a gang member do they spell out the definition of ammunition to include "bullet, cartridge, cartridge case" etc. Some folks read that to mean "ammo" is defined to include those items for the entire law, but I don't think that's the right reading.

In any event, at this juncture, folks in the component business who sell bullets and brass but not ammo, (including me) don't even KNOW if we can legally continue to sell to our california pards after the first of the year. Gonna ruin CAS and other shooting sports requiring volumes of handgun ammo, IMHO.

[bdhold]

Internet sale of ammo will be a primary target of anti-gun lobbyists over the next decade.

[adirondakjack]

Internet sale of ammo will be a primary target of anti-gun lobbyists over the next decade.

And frankly, don't look for HELP from most of the FFLs. The LGS who charges out the wazoo for a spare assortment of ammo and MAYBE doesn't even have compnents save a few bits here and there will not wanna HELP the internet sellers who ARE the backbone of the handloading business.

[Tycer]

There is also the issue in that law that a vendor and purchaser may be construed as the manufacturer/wholesaler and gunstore. The UPS/freight driver is not going to take the prints of the gunstore receiving clerk nor check his/her eligibility to receive the ammunition nor take any liability for such transaction.

Getting ammo into CA might suffer a hiccup until this aspect is resolved.

[El Chivo]

What's more, because of very confusing verbiage, it may well end sales of components for reloading via mail or UPS/Fedex as well. Without going back through it. There is one place that says sale of "ammunition" has to be FTF, and yet ONLY in the subsection regarding possession by a gang member do they spell out the definition of ammunition to include "bullet, cartridge, cartridge case" etc. Some folks read that to mean "ammo" is defined to include those items for the entire law, but I don't think that's the right reading.

In any event, at this juncture, folks in the component business who sell bullets and brass but not ammo, (including me) don't even KNOW if we can legally continue to sell to our california pards after the first of the year. Gonna ruin CAS and other shooting sports requiring volumes of handgun ammo, IMHO.

this is right on, we had some discussion on this topic last year, and I re-read the bill to realize components are still legal, unless you are a gang member. But for the longest time I thought the internet ban included bullets. I don't think there's any mention of cases or primers or powder. But you're right, many mail order dealers won't be sure.

One thing about these laws, although enforcement is always possible, I think you'll find there won't be any. Still puts a crimp in there for those of us with something to lose.

I'm lucky enough to have a reloading store nearby where I can get what I need. Also, we have had the thumbprint requirement in LA city for quite some time, there are plenty of stores who will still sell ammo.

[adirondakjack]

What's more, because of very confusing verbiage, it may well end sales of components for reloading via mail or UPS/Fedex as well. Without going back through it. There is one place that says sale of "ammunition" has to be FTF, and yet ONLY in the subsection regarding possession by a gang member do they spell out the definition of ammunition to include "bullet, cartridge, cartridge case" etc. Some folks read that to mean "ammo" is defined to include those items for the entire law, but I don't think that's the right reading.

In any event, at this juncture, folks in the component business who sell bullets and brass but not ammo, (including me) don't even KNOW if we can legally continue to sell to our california pards after the first of the year. Gonna ruin CAS and other shooting sports requiring volumes of handgun ammo, IMHO.

this is right on, we had some discussion on this topic last year, and I re-read the bill to realize components are still legal, unless you are a gang member. But for the longest time I thought the internet ban included bullets. I don't think there's any mention of cases or primers or powder. But you're right, many mail order dealers won't be sure.

One thing about these laws, although enforcement is always possible, I think you'll find there won't be any. Still puts a crimp in there for those of us with something to lose.

I'm lucky enough to have a reloading store nearby where I can get what I need. Also, we have had the thumbprint requirement in LA city for quite some time, there are plenty of stores who will still sell ammo.

I can only imagine that folks in small towns would be hurt the most. Though not in CA, where I live, I'd have to drive 100 miles round trip to USUALLY find empty holes where .45 Cast bullets SHOULD be, and never find any except 250 grain, for example. I have NEVER seen "service load" .45 ammo offered for sale anywhere, (just a few cowboy loads, and durn little of those)......

[AJMD429]

Thank God they finally did that. It should really cut down on youth crime and violence. Smart move.

[Sixgun]

Thats amazing! I really thought that attitude and way of thinking was getting archaic with today's lawmakers. Its like, well, "they" need to come up with something new that makes sense. But I guess its not about "making sense".

We have none of that nonsense here in Pa.--------------------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

To the heavily Democrat CA legislature, making sense has nothing to do with anything. They are more concerned with massaging their overinflated egos and huge unearned salaries than actually doing what the population elected them to do. They keep dredging up this inane firearms legislation to fool themselves, and the public, into believing that they are hard at work. The sad part is the mental giants actually believe it. With only a small handful of Reps in the state the Dumocraps can do as they wish, unimpeded and out of control. With old Jerry-atric Brown firmly at the top we can expect large tax increases on business and raised state taxes across the board. To expect otherwise would be folly. Brown speaks from the corner of his mouth and changes direction on a whim. He is a mouse brained, wishy washy, flim flam man that the certifiably crazy voters brought back from a well deserved political grave. We used to say "If it Brown, flush it down". History will repeat itself, and take CA down with it. Too late for me, but young folks should bail by the thousands.

[darkwater]

Unfortunately, the author of this bill, Kevin DeLeon (D) from LA, termed out of the legislature, but ran unopposed for the Senate seat in his district, so there's more poop coming down the chute once they convene again in January.

Have you heard the reasoning behind the handgun ammo bill he drafted? Here's a quote from Wikipedia: "The Forty-Fifth Assembly District has been plagued by gang violence. While walking neighborhoods during his first campaign De León stumbled across bullet casings on side walks just feet from where children were playing and has ever since been determined to get handgun ammunition that he believes fuels this violence out of the hands of criminals, gang-bangers, and legitimate citizens." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_DeLeon

I like that last part about "legitimate citizens"...one of our Calguns guys said he did some tinkering on the verbage. Also, it's nice he discovered empty brass near some children, but did he ever prove exactly where they came from? What if a guy that collected empty brass from an indoor range was walking by and his bag sprung a leak and dropped some brass? It wouldn't be the first time history was changed by relying on bad intel.

[Chas.]

...to get handgun ammunition that he believes fuels this violence out of the hands of criminals, gang-bangers, and legitimate citizens." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_DeLeon

My anal logic makes me ask this question - what would be an illegitimate citizen?

[rogn]

With todays trends could that pertain to the 12 to 50 million illegal aliens? So they also following the same logic, be elligible to purchase said munitions.

[Chas.]

But if they're illegal aliens, they're not citizens, legitimate or illegitimate. Everybody either is a citizen or is not a citizen; there is no degree of citizenship. I was just having some fun with the words. Illegitimate citizen is like saying something is "off white" - it's either white or it's not white. Of course I'll never be able to convince my wife of that.