POLITICS--McCain Again

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BruceB
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POLITICS--McCain Again

Post by BruceB »

http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm :shock:

Should we hold up a queen of hearts, and see what happens?? :wink:
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Post by JReed »

Nothing new there. To bad people think highly of him for being a POW with out taking the time to see what the man is about. I get real tired hearing about his war service. Not to insult anyone but it doesn't take much to get shot down and caught. To servive as a POW doesn't take a hero it takes someone that will do anything to look out for number 1.
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Post by Blaine »

JReed wrote:Nothing new there. To bad people think highly of him for being a POW with out taking the time to see what the man is about. I get real tired hearing about his war service. Not to insult anyone but it doesn't take much to get shot down and caught. To servive as a POW doesn't take a hero it takes someone that will do anything to look out for number 1.
Ouch :P
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Post by Tycer »

Someone suggested that it would be better for the country to vote out the Dems in the House and Senate and vote Hillary and Bill in.

We know the Republicans will fight tooth and nail against the Clintons, but they might support some pretty socialist things because "he's one of us, and we HAVE to support him...."

Durn, just ruined my lunch.
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Post by FWiedner »

...but they might support some pretty socialist things because "he's one of us, and we HAVE to support him...."
Hmmm...can't put my finger on it, but I've heard that tune before...

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by JReed »

Ouch
Calling it as I see it since 1974 :wink: .
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Post by Jeeps »

JReed wrote:Nothing new there. To bad people think highly of him for being a POW with out taking the time to see what the man is about. I get real tired hearing about his war service. Not to insult anyone but it doesn't take much to get shot down and caught. To servive as a POW doesn't take a hero it takes someone that will do anything to look out for number 1.

Sad but true :oops:

I went through POW training in Camp Leguene and got booted out toward the
end of the first day after I beat up 3 or 4 MP's

I was wearing a T-shirt, blindfold, and handcuffs, thats all. They stressed me out and
I snapped :shock:

Ah the memories :D :D
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Post by octagon »

In 1942, my friend Mr. Carl was forcibly marched along with about 74,000 men for 60 miles. These men were given one sip of water and no food for 5-6 days. Many of these men did not survive the march (about 18,000). Mr. Carl lost almost 100 pounds before his release from the POW camp. I saw a picture of him - he looked like a skeleton. Mr. Carl was a fine a fellow as you would care to meet, and while he never considered himself a "Hero" I always have. He was a decorated soldier and a gentleman - surviving torture and starvation while in the service of his country. Just calling it like I see it.
R.I.P. Mr. Carl.
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Post by Swampman »

Looks like the Paulophiles can't get over the fact that McCain is going to win the party nomination and is the only Republican that has a chance to beat the Hildabeast. I wouldn't mind her being president if she'd just wear a paper bag over her head while on camera.
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Post by bunklocoempire »

Swampman wrote:
Looks like the Paulophiles can't get over the fact that McCain is going to win the party nomination and is the only Republican that has a chance to beat the Hildabeast.
Okay I'll bite. :lol: This so-far life long republican Paultriot with "tin foil tri corner hat" is over it. I was over it when I found out who Ron Paul was and decided to write him in if I have to. People want to learn the hard way fine. Myself and my family are prepared. I won't settle for anything less than our Constitution anymore. If the "republican" majority can't figure it out after 8 years of this stuff then tuff. Is it even a party I want to be associated with anymore? Realize it's not just Ron Paul, it's a movement to get back to our Constitution. The door is always open for those who realize it's not dems vs. repubs, it's US vs. government. Go Fred, Go Rudy, Go Duncan, Go Tom!! Oh wait, they've quit. I guess better to quit than lose to a democrat! :wink:

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Post by Leverdude »

Looks like the Paulophiles can't get over the fact that McCain is going to win the party nomination and is the only Republican that has a chance to beat the Hildabeast.
Its only a fact because to some folks its more important to be on the winning team than it is to do the right thing. Thats why theres so few Conservative Republicans & thats why the few there are wont get elected.

Besides Hillary aint going to win. She cant even get elected where she comes from. :lol:

Folks can vote for another compromise if they want, like the candidates do, thats their right. I just hope theyre happy when McCain sits down with Sarah Brady to straighten out our gun problems.

We have just one chance to put a man in there that wants to set things right. When he dont get elected I'll know I did all I could to fix what the Republicans & Democrats been screwing up for 100 years or so.
Its pretty sad that in future years our grandkids might be sitting looking at pictures of us shooting & hunting with guns theyre not trusted with. They'll look back maybe & say "Why didn't they elect Paul?" "Why did they not care enough to elect the only Constitutionalist in the running?"

I guess maybe they'll forgive us. Maybe they'll say that its better to give up on the constitution as long as the guy you vote for wins. But I doubt it.
I know I wouldn't.
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Post by donw »

i feared my NCO's more than the enemy...i determined i was NOT going to become a POW when i went in country.

mccain spent more time as a POW than most spent in the service...that says a lot.
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Post by Swampman »

If you aren't on the winning team, you are a loser. What you do, or don't do doesn't mean squat.

You have no say, and nobody would listen if you did. Winners run this country. Losers whine when they lose all their rights because they weren't smart enough to pick their battles.

Please don't belly ache when a democrat wins. It's your fault if you didn't vote for John McCain.
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Post by gon2shoot »

Looks like another year for
"NONE OF THE ABOVE"
grit yer teeth an pull the trigger
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Post by octagon »

Accurate info related to McCain's Navy Service is available with the punch of a few buttons.
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Post by FWiedner »

McCain is a lousy senator and a terrible Republican. He has a legislative record that is not conservative. In fact, it is anti-conservative.

In order to maintain the appearance of political "bipartisanship," McCain will unilaterally decide that there is little of our money and few of our rights that cannot be sacrificed for "the greater good."

To state it plainly, McCain is in bed with 'Chappaquiddick' Kennedy and the rest of the Dems.

The "team" with McCain on it also has jerseys that say Clinton, Obama, and Kennedy.

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by Leverdude »

Swampman wrote:If you aren't on the winning team, you are a loser. What you do, or don't do doesn't mean squat.

You have no say, and nobody would listen if you did. Winners run this country. Losers whine when they lose all their rights because they weren't smart enough to pick their battles.

Please don't belly ache when a democrat wins. It's your fault if you didn't vote for John McCain.
Not much to say to you. You already said in an earlier post you'd consider Obama if McCain aint nominated. I wont belly ache if Hillary gets elected, its what we deserve if the majority think like that.

Picking battles is what we are talking about here & Ron Pauls the general that can best win it. McCain cant even figure out what he wants to say or where he stands. Kinda like a guy that'll say he'd vote for anybody that'll defeat the other party, unless he decides to vote for it. :lol:
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Post by Caco »

Darn it-WAS smart enough to not respond and waste my time :P
Anyway----------------Things are sad :cry: My view at this time.
Vote for anybody but Hillary-along with Bill the most crooked decitfull politicans I can think of
McCain and Oboma--not much difference in the wash. Obama will tell you how he will socialize you and McCain will lie and do about the same thing. I guess I appreciate the honest part.
Soooo if it's Hillery vs McCain i'll pinch my nose and vote for McCain as the lesser of two evils is significant :twisted:
If it's Obama vs McCain I'll just bust a 50$ in a bar on ellection day or maybe write in Paul-maybe write in Paul early then bust the 50$ :(
Romney would do U.S. better than the dems or the whining McCain. At this point Paul is just a stament that the winner will disregard.
I wonder if Romney Might do better if Rush Limbough quite campaining for him--Kind of like Bill's effect for Hillary :P
There!! I did it!! wasted 15 minutes :P
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Post by FWiedner »

Soooo if it's Hillery vs McCain i'll pinch my nose and vote for McCain as the lesser of two evils is significant ...
See, there's the rub.

Given that particular choice, Hillary is not the lesser of the two evils.

I'm telling you, it's the same demon, and these are just two of it's ugly green heads sticking up out of hell.

:)
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by Swampman »

"Ron Pauls the general that can best win it."

He was never a general & he'll never be President. That's the point. He can't win anything unless he's elected first.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

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Post by Caco »

Quote
"Given that particular choice, Hillary is not the lesser of the two evils"

FW you have your vision impairment-I have mine :P
Dave :roll:
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Post by Leverdude »

Swampman wrote:"Ron Pauls the general that can best win it."

He was never a general & he'll never be President. That's the point. He can't win anything unless he's elected first.
Well, we agree on that.
Its why he cant get elected that gets under my skin.
Since he seems in most every way to represent what this country is supposed to be run like I think it says alot about us that he's not even taken seriously. We are willing to look the other way regarding other politicians short comings, some of which are downright socialist. But we cant overlook a lack of charisma & vote for a guy who has the best interests of the nation at heart. Least I believe he does & I dont believe any of the other players on the field care about anything other than their own future & buisness interests.

I dont mind supporting the underdog if I think he's the right man.

I dont vote to win a popularity contest anymore. I vote for the man I want to be in the office.

Theres not enough difference between McCain & a Democrat for me to lose sleep over.

I'm more concerened about the Supreme court judges a non conservative will
seat but it should be remembered that very little regarding RKBA ends up before them anyway. After the current case it'll likely be decades before another case makes it.
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Post by AJMD429 »

Perhaps if 'they' (our rulers, since we long ago ceded citizen authority to the government) changed the rules so we were allowed to vote for more than one candidate, and we weren't pressured to vote for the lesser of two evils or the most 'electable' one, we could get where we need to be.

'They' won't change the rules, and 'we' don't have enough desire to, evidently.

So, we'll sit in the pot, and wonder why the water keeps getting warmer each year - after all, whenever one guy wants to turn up the heat ALOT, we always pick the other one who wants to turn it up NOT QUITE AS MUCH. And sometimes we even pick one who says he'll turn the heat down, but when he turns it up instead, we re-elect him because he says he won't do it again.
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Post by Swampman »

Its all about the judges. We may not like McCain very much. He was certainly not my first choice. He does have a good chance to win since he is a centrist, and we cannot afford liberal judge setbacks.

We cannot afford to loose the 3 judge spots that are likely to come up this next term.

So please. Groan, grunt, and complain all you want. But show up and vote against the Democraps in November.

Those Democraps are ugly and wrong for the country. And they'll put liberal legislators on the bench.

They suck.

Vote McCain or loose your guns. Not good choices....
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Post by FWiedner »

Swampman wrote:Its all about the judges... and we cannot afford liberal judge setbacks.

We cannot afford to loose the 3 judge spots that are likely to come up this next term.

Those Democraps are ugly and wrong for the country. And they'll put liberal legislators on the bench.

They suck.

McCain will appoint liberal judges, just like his Democrat buddies would.

The thing you fail to understand is that McCain IS NOT a conservative, and will not turn into one just because he cons a few wishful conservatives into voting for him.

McCain sucks just as hard as any Democrat, because he is one of them.

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by Swampman »

Don't be a sore loser.
"I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30/30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts but easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas."~Calvin Rutstrum~

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Post by brucew44guns »

FWiedner wrote:
Soooo if it's Hillery vs McCain i'll pinch my nose and vote for McCain as the lesser of two evils is significant ...
See, there's the rub.

Given that particular choice, Hillary is not the lesser of the two evils.

I'm telling you, it's the same demon, and these are just two of it's ugly green heads sticking up out of hell.

:)
Mr. Weidner says it nicely, "that McCain is not the lesser of 2 evils". McCain will be the same willing tool of the powerful elites who run our country as most presidents have been. He will be a willing tool of those who are destroying our republic, our way of life, because he lusts for power and that's about all he wants. The good of the United States doesn't enter in here IMO. I don't think he will grab guns quite as fast as Clinton will, but I fully believe Sarah Brady will be welcome at the White House to see john anytime.
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Post by RIHMFIRE »

Okay guys.....
mcain is not our first choice....
but sitting out the election....
writing in another name like Ron Paul....which i like him
or voting for billary or osama is Not the answer....
THIS IS HOW WE WIN
If conservative ALL go out and vote and vote for Mcain
and vote as many conservative into the house and senate...
and we....conservatives, control both houses, we can force
mcain to do what we want.....He will want to be know for getting
conservative things done.....hes not a fool....he a politician..
Same as every other up there...
When the republicans owned the house and senate, when
clinton was in office he was forced to pass the consevative agenda....period...it is simple math...
3 or 4 SC justices will retire in the next eight years and
theres know way we can allow the bitch or osama to have
that privaledge.....as gun owners we can not allow that....
Princible votes in this situation in not only wrong, but stupid...
The reason we are in this situation is because consevatives
sat out the 2006 elections....those same conservative are sitting
out the primaries....
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Post by Dastook »

Swampman wrote:Its all about the judges. We may not like McCain very much. He was certainly not my first choice. He does have a good chance to win since he is a centrist, and we cannot afford liberal judge setbacks.

We cannot afford to loose the 3 judge spots that are likely to come up this next term.

So please. Groan, grunt, and complain all you want. But show up and vote against the Democraps in November.

Those Democraps are ugly and wrong for the country. And they'll put liberal legislators on the bench.

They suck.

Vote McCain or loose your guns. Not good choices....
Very good point. I can’t stand McCain and haven’t decided what I am going to do on the presidential vote. The other point is the importance of voting to get the Senate back to stop the ridicules legislation that will be coming out of the House
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Post by FWiedner »

RIHMFIRE wrote: THIS IS HOW WE WIN
If conservative ALL go out and vote and vote for Mcain
and vote as many conservative into the house and senate...
and we....conservatives, control both houses, we can force
mcain to do what we want.....He will want to be know for getting
conservative things done.....hes not a fool....he a politician..
Same as every other up there...
It's my opinion that you are mistaken.

Republicans may "win", but conservatives will not.

Conservatives dumped the Republicans in the 2006 elections because they were not performing as conservatives. And what did Republicans learn? Exactly the WRONG lesson. Republicans are totally out of touch with their base! Instead of drawing the conclusion that they should return to the conservative ideology and do their job, they decided that they needed to lean farther left, because that's where it looked like the votes were going.

Returning control to Republicans who do not solidly represent conservatives will get more of exactly what this country does not need, and that is socialist Democrats and fascist neo-con Republicans.

Voting for a politician simply because he has an (R) behind his name is just crazy. Look at the man's record. A cat does not change it's spots.

You are blindly hoping that Republicans have learned a lesson, or that they or the Democrats will somehow change their ways and begin to give a GD about the American People and their way of life.

Supporting the media's selected "darlings" is throwing away the opportunity to turn this Republic toward it's intended form of government and instead condemning Americans to living in the Hell of socialism under Democratic rule or the Hades of fascism under Republican rule.

It is time to throw these two parties into the dust-bin of history because between them there is no lesser evil. They are both evil and rotted through to the core.

:?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by txpete »

Swampman wrote:Its all about the judges. We may not like McCain very much. He was certainly not my first choice. He does have a good chance to win since he is a centrist, and we cannot afford liberal judge setbacks.

We cannot afford to loose the 3 judge spots that are likely to come up this next term.

So please. Groan, grunt, and complain all you want. But show up and vote against the Democraps in November.

Those Democraps are ugly and wrong for the country. And they'll put liberal legislators on the bench.

They suck.

Vote McCain or loose your guns. Not good choices....
+1!!!!
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Post by Hobie »

FWiedner wrote:
RIHMFIRE wrote: THIS IS HOW WE WIN
If conservative ALL go out and vote and vote for Mcain
and vote as many conservative into the house and senate...
and we....conservatives, control both houses, we can force
mcain to do what we want.....He will want to be know for getting
conservative things done.....hes not a fool....he a politician..
Same as every other up there...
It's my opinion that you are mistaken.

Republicans may "win", but conservatives will not.

Conservatives dumped the Republicans in the 2006 elections because they were not performing as conservatives. And what did Republicans learn? Exactly the WRONG lesson. Republicans are totally out of touch with their base! Instead of drawing the conclusion that they should return to the conservative ideology and do their job, they decided that they needed to lean farther left, because that's where it looked like the votes were going.

Returning control to Republicans who do not solidly represent conservatives will get more of exactly what this country does not need, and that is socialist Democrats and fascist neo-con Republicans.

Voting for a politician simply because he has an (R) behind his name is just crazy. Look at the man's record. A cat does not change it's spots.

You are blindly hoping that Republicans have learned a lesson, or that they or the Democrats will somehow change their ways and begin to give a GD about the American People and their way of life.

Supporting the media's selected "darlings" is throwing away the opportunity to turn this Republic toward it's intended form of government and instead condemning Americans to living in the Hell of socialism under Democratic rule or the Hades of fascism under Republican rule.

It is time to throw these two parties into the dust-bin of history because between them there is no lesser evil. They are both evil and rotted through to the core.

:?
I think that this is the single best post you have ever made.

Once upon a time we had a party referred to as the Whigs. They had abandoned their base which reorganized as the Republican party. Now, that party has also abandoned its base. Time to create another party?

One thing is for certain. Whether or not you vote for McCain (or the Dem nominee) you must not sit it out. Go vote for as many of those who will do as you want as are on your ballot. At least do that.
Sincerely,

Hobie

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Post by bunklocoempire »

As I understand these last couple "vote McCain" posts, I'm supposed to vote for a guy who has no problem ignoring our Constitution/conservative principles to get back to our Constitution/conservative principles.

No, I don't buy it. Not anymore. I don't live my life like the current administration runs our Country nor do most here. Do any here run up debts they can't possibly pay back? Are any here so afraid of others they will shoot first to avoid a possible threat?

Not obvious self defense but a possible threat? Do any here fear somebody owning a gun because of what they might do? Would any of us think it wise to hunt on someones land when invited by one of the land owners but despised by the rest?

Would we go so far as to fight the other land owners because of want of hunting? Would any of us betray "friends" and not expect reprecussions? Unrealistic? Not from my experiences.

People will bring up national interests, a nuke is different, they hate us because we're free, fight them over there etc., go ahead and pretend running our Country is different than how we live our day to day lives.

Fear, unreal expectations of our Nation, and other nations/people, and straying from our Constitution will be...is the downfall of our Nation. Remember there is a difference between being wary and fear, and strategy and surrender.

Any republican candidate who has not critcized this administrations handling of foreign policy, pre emptive war/"patriot act" with disregard of our Constitution, fiscal policies/practices is not worthy of my vote. Regretfully it took me a while to figure this

out, but I did, and it feels good. NO fear. Face your fears, start shopping for candidates NOW, based only on voting records, and tell people, the media won't. Our Country/Constitution can be salvaged but only by true Patriots who do it themselves

without fear. Oh yeah, vote Ron Paul. :wink:

Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
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Post by Caco »

Bunko vote protest if you must, just enjoy whoever gets in.
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Post by Swampman »

bunklocoempire I see you don't let facts cloud your judgement. You should examine them sometime.
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Post by bunklocoempire »

Caco wrote:
Bunko vote protest if you must, just enjoy whoever gets in.
I've been a good little republican all my life from Reagan on through, voted twice for President G. W. Bush, didn't want the dems in, what'd that get me? The "Patriot Act". A pre-emptive war that's outta line with our Constitution, to save oil fields, er.. I mean Iraqi freedoms, er.. I mean national interests, er.. I mean national security. Private "security contractors" that don't answer to me but I pay for,( ol' Blackwater, they got no problem getting ammo/carry'n guns). No secure border. Policies with push towards North America union courtesy CFR think tank. Falling dollar courtesy of Federal Reserve. More debt to China. Bigger DOE, should I go on? Yeah, I've really enjoyed this last ride, hey, we won though. :roll: Did we lose more Liberty with 8 years of this administration or 8 years of Bill Clinton? A lot of it going on before I came along but at this point why should I settle? I can't afford to settle, I won't settle.

Swampman wrote:
bunklocoempire I see you don't let facts cloud your judgement. You should examine them sometime.
:P And what facts do you speak of? I don't let fear cloud my judgement, nor do I pretend dealing with people immediatly around me is any different on a larger scale. My previous post was to examine our own lives and compare them to how our Country is run. I am glad and appreciate that you vote, and that's about it. :lol: Naw, appreciate the lever posts too.

Take care, yours in frustration :lol: Bunkloco
“We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance, once you become knowledgeable you have an obligation to do something about it.” Ron Paul
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Post by gary rice »

you must have one heck of a strong right.
Jeeps wrote:
JReed wrote:Nothing new there. To bad people think highly of him for being a POW with out taking the time to see what the man is about. I get real tired hearing about his war service. Not to insult anyone but it doesn't take much to get shot down and caught. To servive as a POW doesn't take a hero it takes someone that will do anything to look out for number 1.

Sad but true :oops:

I went through POW training in Camp Leguene and got booted out toward the
end of the first day after I beat up 3 or 4 MP's

I was wearing a T-shirt, blindfold, and handcuffs, thats all. They stressed me out and
I snapped :shock:

Ah the memories :D :D
g rice
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Post by handirifle »

Regardless of which one wins, Mc Cain, or Hillobama, I agree there is little difference. I do feel Obama will at least tell you the truth, as he sees it, but McCain would not. He's a career politician. Like the Kennedy he's in bed with.

BUT what I also feel that no matter who wins the white house, the real power of the people comes from who we elect to congress.

This has been said in this thread before and I agree. The key to this nation running properly, is the BALANCE of power.

Kennedy is ONE vote, period, and all those the follow him sucking teat of the "royal family" :roll: , will vote like him too but IF we elect a majority of conservatives in the congressional and senate seats we can keep this nation afloat.
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Post by RIHMFIRE »

FWiedner wrote:
RIHMFIRE wrote: THIS IS HOW WE WIN
If conservative ALL go out and vote and vote for Mcain
and vote as many conservative into the house and senate...
and we....conservatives, control both houses, we can force
mcain to do what we want.....He will want to be know for getting
conservative things done.....hes not a fool....he a politician..
Same as every other up there...
It's my opinion that you are mistaken.

Republicans may "win", but conservatives will not.


Conservatives dumped the Republicans in the 2006 elections because they were not performing as conservatives. And what did Republicans learn? Exactly the WRONG lesson. Republicans are totally out of touch with their base! Instead of drawing the conclusion that they should return to the conservative ideology and do their job, they decided that they needed to lean farther left, because that's where it looked like the votes were going.

Returning control to Republicans who do not solidly represent conservatives will get more of exactly what this country does not need, and that is socialist Democrats and fascist neo-con Republicans.

Voting for a politician simply because he has an (R) behind his name is just crazy. Look at the man's record. A cat does not change it's spots.

You are blindly hoping that Republicans have learned a lesson, or that they or the Democrats will somehow change their ways and begin to give a GD about the American People and their way of life.

Supporting the media's selected "darlings" is throwing away the opportunity to turn this Republic toward it's intended form of government and instead condemning Americans to living in the Hell of socialism under Democratic rule or the Hades of fascism under Republican rule.

It is time to throw these two parties into the dust-bin of history because between them there is no lesser evil. They are both evil and rotted through to the core.

:?
I said vote for conservatives.....
there is no mention of party....dems, indies, or republicans
CONSERVATIVES
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Post by FWiedner »

RIHMFIRE wrote:If conservative ALL go out and vote and vote for Mcain...
As I said, it's my opinion that you are mistaken.

:)
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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Post by ByronG »

donw wrote:i feared my NCO's more than the enemy...i determined i was NOT going to become a POW when i went in country.

mccain spent more time as a POW than most spent in the service...that says a lot.

No doubt about it! McCain definitely took the soft option. I mean, letting himself get shot down and then spending five and a half years kicking back in a tropical paradise without a worry in the world. What a jerk!

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had previously been off-limits to U.S. raids.[41][42] McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile[42] while pulling up after dropping its bombs.[43] McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane.[44] He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[41] After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes.[45] Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Loa Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.[45][46] Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to give him medical care unless he gave them military information; they beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth.[45] Soon thinking he was near death, McCain said he would give them information if taken to the hospital, hoping he could then put them off once he was treated.[47] A prison doctor came and said it was too late, as McCain was about to die anyway.[45] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[45] and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front pages of The New York Times[37] and The Washington Post.[48]

McCain spent six weeks in the Hoa Loa hospital, receiving marginal care.[41] He was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap.[45] Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite.[45] Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[41] McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp on the outskirts of Hanoi nicknamed "the Plantation"[49] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive.[50] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[45] In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[4] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[41] the North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[45] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation, due to the Code of Conduct principle of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[51] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese senior negotiator Le Duc Tho to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman during the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[52]

In August of 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions, and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[45][41] Teeth and bones were broken again, as was McCain's spirit; the beginning of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.[41] After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate",[41] although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal that the statement was forced.[53] He felt then and always that he had dishonored his country, his family, his comrades and himself by his statement,[54] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[45] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.[13] Two weeks later his captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time, his will to resist restored, he refused.[45] He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[55] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions".[45] On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.[53] On another occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when the guard later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot[56] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity[57][58]). McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.[45]

In May 1969, U.S. Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird began publicly questioning North Vietnamese treatment of U.S. prisoners.[59] On June 5, 1969, a Radio Hanoi broadcast denied any mistreatment, and quoted from a statement it attributed to McCain: "I have bombed the cities, towns and villages and caused injuries and even death for the people of North Vietnam. After I was captured, I was taken to a hospital in Hanoi where I received very good medical treatment."[59] In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected.[45] In December 1969, McCain was transferred back to the Hoa Loa "Hanoi Hilton";[45] his solitary confinement ended in March 1970.[45] McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime;[45] to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, "I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself."[45] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before.[45] Back at the "Hanoi Hilton" from November 1971 onward,[45] McCain and the other POWs cheered the intense, Hanoi-focused, B-52-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972 — whose explosions lit the night sky and shook the walls of the camp, and whose daily orders were issued by McCain's father, knowing his son was in the vicinity — as a forceful measure to force North Vietnam to terms.[45][60]

Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecoming arrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973,[61] having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer.[62]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
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Post by Hobie »

While it did deny him actually C&C experience (Just being in the military is not enough to make you a grand strategist), to imply that being a POW is a piece of cake is beyond the pale.
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Post by Idahoser »

I'm such a moron for doing this again...

Since the choices have been narrowed down for us to either writing in [who cares] or choosing the socialist, the socialist or (after the convention) the socialist, what is there to accomplish in the Presidential race?

(yes, of course, you go vote for the local, state and national positions that are on the ballot. Goes without saying.)

Well, I tell you what, as far as just "being the President", I see no difference between the choices. They will work with the Dems (no matter who's in the majority) to socialize everything they can think of. They will appoint "living Constitution" socialist activist judges. They will take joy in poking conservatives to watch us squeal.

So what is the difference?

Here's the difference. After this election, there will either still be hope for the Republican Party to move back to the right, or McCain will be President.
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Idahoser wrote:...Here's the difference. After this election, there will either still be hope for the Republican Party to move back to the right, or McCain will be President.
+1. :?
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Post by Old Ironsights »

Hobie wrote:While it did deny him actually C&C experience (Just being in the military is not enough to make you a grand strategist), to imply that being a POW is a piece of cake is beyond the pale.
Agreed. OTOH, being a POW for that long should also disqualify anyone from ever holding a TS clearance or being in control of more than a personal weapon.

Who knows how much "head damage" they did to him while trying to break/reprogram him.

We may actually get to see a real-life "Manchurian Candidate" scenerio play out...
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Re: POLITICS--McCain Again

Post by Swampman »

I'm going to vote for McCain again. He's a good guy.
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Post by Old Ironsights »

JReed wrote:Nothing new there. To bad people think highly of him for being a POW with out taking the time to see what the man is about. I get real tired hearing about his war service. Not to insult anyone but it doesn't take much to get shot down and caught. To servive as a POW doesn't take a hero it takes someone that will do anything to look out for number 1.
+6 or 7 thousand.

FIVE YEARS being programmed by the Chicomms... And we want this guy as POTUS just as the Chicomms are becomming a genuinely dynamic world power?

Sorry. I value and respect his service. But his CAPTIVITY should be a disqualifier IMO. PSYOPS is a funky-scary thing to deal with...
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Re: POLITICS--McCain Again

Post by Slick »

mccain wants to give all the illegals "amnesty"... That don't work for me as i'm "dying" (financially) in this country. I'll be voting for Ron Paul via "write-in". I've decided that I'd rather go under in my county voting for the "right choice" than the lessor of two evils".
Last edited by Slick on Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Post by 505stevec »

[quote="donw"]i feared my NCO's more than the enemy...i determined i was NOT going to become a POW when i went in country.

mccain spent more time as a POW than most spent in the service...that says a lot.[/quote


he spent 22 years in the Navy. He served 8 more years after his capture. So yeah that does say alot.
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Re: POLITICS--McCain Again

Post by Idahoser »

There's plenty of reasons to speak out against McCain. Trying to use the fact he was a POW as some kind of negative against him is beneath any person interested in what's right, and I'll thank you guys to knock it off.
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