What my 92 in 45 colt taught me today

[rogn]

Got a 92 Puma SS in 45 colt about 2months ago,love the gun for its handling, quick response time, big hole in the end of barrel, and on and on. But I ve been plagued with mediocre accuracy, heck lousy accuracy- could get acouple of bullets touching at 30 yds then the next one'd be 3" away. Best 3 or 4 shot groups at 30 yards were 2 1/2"> Lead bullets could be even worse. 100 yds would have a shot spot on and another 6" or further out. Cleaning the barrel gave me the feeling that the bore was adequate but not smooth so I decided to "fire lap" it. Dug out an old kit from NECO and prepped a bunch of lead bullets. used 10 w/ 220 grit and 10 w/ 400grit. Afetr running the 2 sets with cleaning after each set, I determined you should patch after each shot since you may run into leading which then "protects" that part of the bore from subsequent abrasive effect. Rapidly degrading accuracy signals the lead build up. 6" at 30 yds. Clean barrel could almost have rounds touching at 100 yd. Cleaning the SS barrel taught me that Kroil when allowed to sit after wetpatching the barrel, would seep under the lead and allow me to patch it out with a few passes of dry cotton flannel patches-really pretty slick. Dont have any idea how it would work in a carbon steel barrel. Patches going thru after the firelapping, slipped thru like a wet cake of soap in the shower. Folllowed this up with a few cast bullet loads and it soon became apparent that either my firelapping job was incomplete due to the small amts of bore protected from lapping by the small amts of leading during the lapping process. Not willing to give up yet I tried some jacketed bullets, the 250 gr Hornady XTP HP. My sons rifle liked these on some earlier work ups, but liked the 300gr better, but thats another story. While working on my sons rifle we fould that Tula LP mag primers semed to give better results than the equivilent CCIs. 25.7 gr of new batch H110(Hodgdons starting load), Tula LPM primer, WW cases , seated and lightly roll crimped in the cannelure. These cases had been fired from 10-20 times apiece and were starting to get rough on some edges. No cracks or splits or growth, but the Puma extactor would raise a bit or a burr under the rim and when loading the firelapp rounds they would not pass thru the shellholder smoothly. Thought about that a bit and decided that Id clean the burrs off with a needle file by rolling the case against the file. One turn and the burrs were gone. Might have caused a variable headspace, like haveing different thickness rims. First 2 shotsat 30 yds had me looking for the second hole, Man it must really be bad now! Third shot confirmed the nearness of bullet strikes. This is starting to look better. Moved bacck to 100 yds, and found shots really close together. Adusted the sights and impacts fllowed just like theyre supposed to! Looks like it may actually be a 2" or better rifle with this load, aand this with iron sights-Williams 5D and I almost forgot Id had cataract surgery 3 weeks ago and can actually see one set of sights and one target at a time. It was really a banner day. It was a great relief and surprise how precise and accurate the little rifle can be.Now I cant wait until firearms season for white tails opens in about 3 weeeks.

[Old Savage]

Interesting issue. I found that mine with carbon steel barrel needs bullet larger than 451 or 452 and does much better with .454 bullets or I have some loads that were done by CowboyTutt that have a 360 keith bullet at .452 but operate at about 30,000 lbs. so likely obturate well. The small bullets shoot in what could not even be called groups.

[CowboyTutt]

Rossi's tolerances and quality control is just so poor! Ieeee! Always helps to slug the barrel so you know what size bullets to use. The grooves on my 454 Puma are pretty shallow but slugged out at 451 so I have been loath to firelap it. At least to the naked eye, the bore has always looked good. In the case of lead bullets, it help to match bullet hardness to pressure. Use hardcast bullets at 20 bhn for 45 Colt +P loads. For regular 45 Colt, I'm fairly sure that bhn 10-12 will do but I would want to check on that. I'm lucky, I've got an "in" with an internal ballistician so he helps me out with these sort of things.

-Tutt

[AJMD429]

Looks like it may actually be a 2" or better rifle with this load...

I'll bet lots of potentially great guns are 'given up' on due to early issues like yours had.

The good news is, sometimes you find them on the 'used' rack for a nice low price, and if you fix their boo-boos, you sometimes have a really nice shooter...!

So, as long as the 'poor' is not regarding a safety issue, the frustrations of poor quality control can be a blessing to the tinkerer or used-gun buyer, by providing a source of affordable, but potentially nice, guns.

To the buyer who wants perfection consistently off-the-rack, issues like this are very annoying, however. That's why they buy 'premium' brands more often.

Either way works out in the end...

[rogn]

Yeah, the old saw attributed to Townsend Whelen about "only accurate rifles are interesting" is intellectually lackluster. Exceptionally accurate rifle get boring quickly unless you have a purpose. The ones that dont shoot are much more interesting, and have something to teach you. Ive got a Lee mold for a 45 SWC that Ive got to get casting and see what I can do next. Factory jacketed bullets get pricey when you use them or practice and plinking. CT, youre right about QC. Its kinda primitive, but at least the critical parts and safety dont seem compromized.

[SAAJim]

CowboyTutt,
The LSI Puma rifles are not Rossi's; they made by Chiappa in Italy - http://www.legacysports.com/products/pu ... 92m86.html. The older Puma's were Rossi's but no longer. Unless rogn got an older Puma blame the problems on Chiappa not Rossi. I got an EMF Hartford (Rossi) 1892 .45 from Debbie @ EMF a couple of years ago and found well made inside and out and very accurate. No complaints from me on the rifle. It was fine out of the box except for a heavy extractor and Steve's DVD took care of that as well as smoothing action even more.

Jim

Rossi's tolerances and quality control is just so poor! Ieeee! Always helps to slug the barrel so you know what size bullets to use. The grooves on my 454 Puma are pretty shallow but slugged out at 451 so I have been loath to firelap it. At least to the naked eye, the bore has always looked good. In the case of lead bullets, it help to match bullet hardness to pressure. Use hardcast bullets at 20 bhn for 45 Colt +P loads. For regular 45 Colt, I'm fairly sure that bhn 10-12 will do but I would want to check on that. I'm lucky, I've got an "in" with an internal ballistician so he helps me out with these sort of things.

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

Jim, your correct. he bought it just two months ago so it could very well be the Chiappa variety unless he found a Rossi Puma on a rack somewhere. Which is it, Rog? I'm curious to know. As to flawed guns being interesting, must be why I have about $1800 into this McPherson Puma. Egads! Sure glad I like it a lot. -Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

I met Debbie at the SHOTSHOW some years ago with Steve Young. She is indeed a nice lady to do buisiness with! -Tutt

[Sarge]

Our little 16" Brazilian .45 doesn't seem particular about bullets. Several cast & jacketed loads have put 3 in 2 1/2" @ 100 yards. I ain't unhappy with that, considering the fat bead front sight.

[southfork]

het, Cowboy Tutt, just curious: Have you put many 454 rounds through your Puma? Or just 45 Colt rounds? Does the Puma handle the 454 ammo decently, e.g., kick not too bad, etc? I'm thinking about finding one of those but want to know what it's manners are first.

[CowboyTutt]

She gets fed a steady diet of 454 Casull rounds. Never been fed a 45 Colt. With its action lengthened to accept rounds up to 1.9 inches, it probably wouldn't feed 45 Colts anymore anyhow. With the stock rubber recoil pad it kicks surprisingly hard and will leave a bruise after a day of shooting in light clothing. A premium pad was part of the upgrade that really, really helped. I recommend it. You can get by with a thick coat or sissy pad. They are prone to the forearm or buttstock cracking so plan on sending it to someone to bed the stocks to avoid this. Other than that, they can be really neat rifles and are the only game in town for a 454 in a levergun unless you have one of Dick Casull's conversions based upon a Browning 92. I think he made about 6 of those if memory serves. Honestly, if you want 45-70 power in a levergun with a 300 grain bullet but weighs less than a Marlin 1895 or Winchester 1886 this is the one to have. Very easy to carry rifle.
-Tutt

[rogn]

Rossi all the way.