OT: Need "safe" barrier to keep out trespassers

[Topside]

Howdy all, I know there are a lot of you who live in the country or have property where trespassers need to be encouraged to keep out. I've put up a couple of posts where I plan to stretch something from one to the other as a statement that I seriously don't want people trespassing (I have 2 signs up which get ignored).
I don't want to put up a cable and decapitate some kid on a 4 wheeler. Whatever I put up, I'll attach some flagging on it in hopes folks'll see it.

Any suggestions on something I could stretch from post to post (about 30 feet apart) that could have strength to stand up against wind but might breakaway if somebody rode into it? Appreciate your thoughts.

T.

[iceman]

I'm not sure but maybe clothesline thay should break easily. Put lots of flags etc. it isort of a no win situation, too strong someone hurt, too small everyone goes in. The other option is a big honking rope clearly visible with flags. good luck.

[Blaine]

Since it is now a matter of public record that you know it could hurt someone, better be carefull

[dkmlever]

You did not say what area of the property this is. Is it close to your house? Along a drive? I put up a No Tresspassing sign along my drive then 20 yards further in I put up a Private Property sign, seems like the two one following the other helped.
Most people around here put up a chian with flagging across a drive but most have the lock not caught (they leave it unlocked). I also had an old road barely a two track that somebody drove a jeep up and onto my property spun around a couple of times etc. I just dropped with a chain saw a good sized tree across the access point, you can see it quite clearly so noone would even ettempt it on a four wheeler and they can't get around it.

[jnyork]

Susanville, CA about 1980 or so a guy strung a tightwire ( ) across a road because he was tired of dirt bikers on his place. Decapitated a local physician, went to prison for a LONG LONG time. Might still be there.

Even with flagging there is a chance someone may not see it at night if they are really flogging along. Might want to rethink your program.

[Don McDowell]

"Stretching" something across a trail is one sure way to get yourself brought in on manslaughter, or endangerment charges, and loose everything you have.
If you can set posts close enough together to stretch something across, then you can also hang metal gates and padlock those gates across the same road/trail. You can also set posts close enough together they can't drive thru, you can set them close enough together they can't walk thru.
Your county sheriff needs to write a few citations and that'll likely slow things up.

There's a ton of options you can excercise that won't get somebody physically hurt.

[Hobie]

You put a few upright PVC posts with the reflective warning bars across there that should do it. If you want access put some larger pipe in the ground and set smaller pipe inside it. If you want more, ummm, rigidity, fill with concrete.

[Otto]

Another consideration is, how frequently you use the access and how much of an inconvenience any particular barrier will be. That said, you might consider doing what is done to restrict access to bike trails and so forth. A metal post or length of pipe is placed in the center of the road, in a manner that allows it to be lifted out and replaced. Such posts are often able to be padlocked. Here is a fairly sophisticated example:

http://www.bollards.ca/site/images/Inst ... T!52695616

For our field access road, we just use a length of cable between two heavy posts, with a metal sign hung in the center of the cable.

[rafter-7]

If the road or trail is on the section line (66 feet every mile)you can not close it its public property. If it just goes on to your property close it/ take it out.


What you need to do is find out from the township board what you can do or not do. and if the township has disbanded then you half to go to the county commissoners where the property is. They will advise you of your rights as a land owner/ be sure to bring a map of the area you are talking about and be ready to answer where the trail goes on to when it leaves your property

^
7

Gasman twp. board president

[Gobblerforge]

What about that orange snow fence for a gate?
Gobbler

[Topside]

Thanks everybody for taking the time to give some good ideas. I'm going to discuss it with the sheriff's ofc. and then proceed.

T.

[FWiedner]

Dig a ditch or fell a tree across the road. Pile brush or stones.

Dig more post holes and put in more posts. Put up an actual gate.

[AJMD429]

Dig a ditch or fell a tree across the road. Pile brush or stones.

Dig more post holes and put in more posts. Put up an actual gate.

Yep.

Plant a bunch of multiflora rose (unless prohibited in your area) or 'hedgeapple' or Washington Hawthorne - many state DNR's sell some appropriate 'impenetrable' plant for wildlife cover.

A local guy had a car door from a junker, painted it up all pretty, then drove a T-post through the window-slit down through the base, pinning it into the ground. He then blasted it with several firearms, and stenciled "Unsafe to Leave Vehicles Here" on it. He meant it, too, because one time he used his front end loader to just flip a car over onto its top. That was back in the pre-crazy-lawyer days, and he also had lots of friends in the sheriff's department - I'd not try that stuff these days, except maybe for the car-door-sign one.

[madman4570]

Howdy all, I know there are a lot of you who live in the country or have property where trespassers need to be encouraged to keep out. I've put up a couple of posts where I plan to stretch something from one to the other as a statement that I seriously don't want people trespassing (I have 2 signs up which get ignored).
I don't want to put up a cable and decapitate some kid on a 4 wheeler. Whatever I put up, I'll attach some flagging on it in hopes folks'll see it.

Any suggestions on something I could stretch from post to post (about 30 feet apart) that could have strength to stand up against wind but might breakaway if somebody rode into it? Appreciate your thoughts.

T.

Below is JMO
If you "seriously" dont want tresspassers illegally tresspassing on you. (and you are serious like you say)
1. Have your land surveyed(camcorder them doing it/marking it etc, for your records) so you absolutely have documented proof for your future records,so you truly know your boundries then go around the complete boundries and then POST IT--- the entire perimeter.(per your reqd state guidelines)
2.At the mouth of this driveway etc. on your land put a treated 10ft 4'X4" (4ft in ground/ 6ft above ground)on each side of driveway. On each put posted sign on very top followed then by a (tresspassers will be prosecuted) sign right below it.(again,do it on each post)
Then paint the following 2 foot below that last sign with flouresant orange paint. (the last 2ft on each pole is bare)
3.Then unfortunitly, the next step----you kinda have to be a arrogant idiot
The best deterent is when the people(punks)around you find out "This guy is serious/dont screw with him"
4. Only thing you need from the sheriff after this is having him haul the yahoos away.
But -----Verify in your State what you can do/cant do in regards to LANDOWNER RIGHTS!

In NYS it goes like this--------------
Anyone going onto posted property without permission has committed CRIMINAL TRESSPASS!
They can be held by GUNPOINT if they attempt to leave while you are calling the Law on their butt.
If they attempt to leave "like they say screw you anyway, you can physically stop/detain them etc.

Again JMO--verify whats what in your case in your state?

[Booger Bill]

You might try this.

[southfork]

If the road or trail is on the section line (66 feet every mile)you can not close it its public property. If it just goes on to your property close it/ take it out.
Gasman twp. board president

"section lines are Public property"? I've never heard that before. Is that a Federal law? Or maybe a state or county law?

[Old Ironsights]

Dig a ditch or fell a tree across the road. Pile brush or stones.

Dig more post holes and put in more posts. Put up an actual gate.

Yep.

Plant a bunch of multiflora rose (unless prohibited in your area) or 'hedgeapple' or Washington Hawthorne - many state DNR's sell some appropriate 'impenetrable' plant for wildlife cover.

A local guy had a car door from a junker, painted it up all pretty, then drove a T-post through the window-slit down through the base, pinning it into the ground. He then blasted it with several firearms, and stenciled "Unsafe to Leave Vehicles Here" on it. He meant it, too, because one time he used his front end loader to just flip a car over onto its top. That was back in the pre-crazy-lawyer days, and he also had lots of friends in the sheriff's department - I'd not try that stuff these days, except maybe for the car-door-sign one.

Even easier...

Poison Ivy.

Attracts deer like candy, repells obnoxious types.

[2571]

Cement wasn't foolproof but worked for the East Germans in Berlin. Might work if you're really serious. :>)

[rafter-7]

Thanks everybody for taking the time to give some good ideas. I'm going to discuss it with the sheriff's ofc. and then proceed.

T.

Do not put anything across the road/trail till you find out who ownes the road... if its public you are liable for damages or whatever

The Sheriff should know the contact info you seek.. Township or the County commission

when you go to the sheriff know whats your legal description it should read something like this 153 N 83 W north 1/2 of the south west 1/4 ... I just explained 80 acres

if you need more just shoot me an email

rafter-7

[adirondakjack]

Man this gets sticky. First yes, find out for durn sure what the county maps show for that "roadway" or "access". My wife's grandfather near lost a good-sized piece of his land because he'd allowed a neighbor to use an abandoned "paper street" (a dirt track planned to be a road but never officially adopted) that was HIS property but ended up "commonly used as right of way". A Clever attorney told him he had to chain it off and put a "private road" sign across it ONE DAY a year to maintain his rights....

On the flip side, if it HAS BEEN used as a "traditional access" and was ever mapped as a road, even if never adopted for upkeep by the town, you could be screwed because after a time, USE OF LAND without OBJECTION amounts to legal ownership by the USER. Plant trees in an abandoned road alongside yer property, nobody complains for ten years, you own it and can actually fence it in, etc.

So ya might could be screwed if somebody else thinks it's a road and can lay claim "we always used it"....

But back to the barrier. I have a situation here with snowmobiles and less frequently four wheelers crossing a piece of property, trashed a garden, etc, I simply bought a dozen of those 4ft long highly reflective fiberglass driveway markers (3/8" fiberglass dowel painted fourescent green with a reflective sticker wrapped around one end) and stuck em in like a picket fence about 2 ft apart. Nobody gonna get killed, but they'd play hob with a snowmobile track and hurt if ya got swatted with one. NO ISSUE the last two winters, they just go around the other way.

[horsesoldier03]

I would put in a pipe gate. Or set pipe on each side of the drive and have a heavy chain that ran between them. You could always hang a sign on the chain, and a 5/8" chain is a bit thick to decapitate anyone.

[buckeyeshooter]

I'd just take the john deere and put a 2 foot diameter log across it. That would stop the traffic

[Topside]

When I get back from the dentist this morning, I'll put up a picture (maybe should have done that all ready) of this road/entrance to my acreage. I put in the road 4 years ago. I "created" it as an entrance to my property. Before that time I just drove off the highway into a meadow.

Be back in a couple of hours. Again, thanks for the comments and ideas on this.

T.

[RIHMFIRE]

You might try this.

Thats great!


Its kind of hard to answer this because I cant picture your situation
Most of the property we had was open country...Tree farm with no fences...
First thing we did is put cables across each entry point...we also fed the
cable through a brightly colored pvc pipe...each side had a post or tree
and we put posted signs on each side...We also put posted signs every
100' or so....If the area by the entrance was kind of open we put up a
barbed wire fence....There was no doubt...that tresspassing would not be tolerated..
We also called the local authorities to warn them of trespassing and it was on the record...
The interior property lines is a lot hard to control....but we posted everything....
Our problem was atvs and horseback riders...and poachers

[madman4570]

My wife's grandfather near lost a good-sized piece of his land because he'd allowed a neighbor to use an abandoned "paper street" (a dirt track planned to be a road but never officially adopted) that was HIS property but ended up "commonly used as right of way". A Clever attorney told him he had to chain it off and put a "private road" sign across it ONE DAY a year to maintain his rights....

USE OF LAND without OBJECTION amounts to legal ownership by the USER. Plant trees in an abandoned road alongside yer property, nobody complains for ten years, you own it and can actually fence it in, etc.

Jack,
Thats partly right and partly not right! (I am no Lawyer so below is JMO)whoever reads it take it as such.
"Adverse Possession" claims of a property(which by the way is now getting harder to win) is when the property has been legally restricted to someone(posted or a written letter forbidding someone access/use of that paticular property.
Actually not restricting the property kinda prevents Adverse Possession, though now in NYS someone going on NON POSTED land without the owners permission has comitted criminal tresspass!.(which has also helped protect the land owner in court now aginst Adverse Pocession claims)Probably though I take it your wifes grandfather had the land posted and then not checked it yearly for tresspass activity.Simply chaining a roadway once a year doesnt cut it.(person/persons)that can come onto the property by any means including even by walking into it from any direction(no entry road) then use that land (say like taking timber)for many years(think its now 10/was 7 ?) can "try" to lay a claim.
But----anymore they will spend many thousands of dollars and years trying to get it.See link below:(read second/third /last paragraph)
http://www.landstartitle.net/news/Adver ... 20York.pdf
Best way to prevent this is at a minimum/once a year do a total camcordered walk through of entire property(all boundries/logroads/all over property including criss crossed patterns for any activity of illegal use/timber theft etc.)
at the begining of this venture on tape(DVD better)say what you are going to do(say/date,time.place,why)
Also, if possible have a non-relative person with you as a witness)

If at any time you notice somthing against your wishes on your land(cut trees/torn up logroads/planted tress/attempted poached dead deer etc.)Note on the Tape/DVD and then report to the Law of that area and demand a written copy of the complaint and keep this on record.If you have a cell phone/cell service from that spot have your friend record you making a call to the Law from that very spot!
This also resets the counting clock back to zero!
Simply planting some tress on someones property for however long without Adverse restriction from the OWNER only gives him/her some extra tress!

Also for anyone a decent digital camera with Audio/Video capability and a good sized storage card(like a 16G SD Card etc)and some extra batteries in the pocket makes a great recording device if you dont have a DVD camcorder.

Now, === the big problem anymore you really have to worry about which not much you can do about ( long court battles etc.)is Eminent domain from your area like putting in a Super Walmart etc.

Bottom Line at my country place-----If I can see anyone from eye sight in any direction(they are illegally on me)
NYS Landowner Rights kick in!
Hey, do you remember the Movie the "Hoosiers" ?
Dennis Hooper(God Bless em)came running out of his place getting their attention/yelling "IDENTIFY"

[Thunder50]

You might be able to use electrified rope. They use it for horse property around here. Regular nylon rope with a copper wire wound in it. Stretches if run into. Put up "electric fence" warning signs

[Topside]

I should have put up pics in the beginning. Top pic is of a sign 18" x 24" that I had made but haven't put up yet. I all ready have 2 smaller no trespass signs up that are being ignored. They are not very prominent though nor even next to the road. You can see the backside of one of them in the bottom pic left of the ditch. I might put 2 of the pictured signs up on posts on either side of the gravel and see how that does. Second pic is where we began roughing in a road. There was nothing but untouched meadow before. Highway is right behind the pickup. Third pic is looking up the road after we finished graveling. You can see the same tall tree and elec. pole as is in pic 2. It is this gravel rd. entrance where I want to put up something to discourage people coming in. I'd rather not put up a gate due to expense (times are tough). Besides, atvs and vehicles could just go around it unless I build a fence in from the rd. to a gate.

This road I've put in goes on back into the property. It doesn't all look like this. Some of it is much narrower without gravel. (great for atv's and motor bikes unfortunately)

You all have given me all the ideas I should need. Will get advice from sheriff and get on with it. THANKYOU.

T.

[madman4570]

Nice Job!
Put up the new signs and then really keep an eye on it for the next few months.
A gate from what I see wont do much good,from what it looks a ATV/4WD truck etc. if someone is too dumb to take heed of a couple of those big new serious signs, they will just go around a gate anyway!

Anyway, good luck!

[gamekeeper]

I have had a lot of fun and some success with these.

http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A03uv8fVgc ... -c356.html

[Hagler]

game keeper,

I like your idea. Deception can be cool, when used appropriately. ...which reminds me of my 1975 Mustang II, with a 302 V-8, which looked a lot like this one:



The father of an acquaintance worked around the local airport, and had a few of these laying around:



I discovered that one of those decals was a perfect fit around the gasoline filler hole on my Mustang. I got some some looks after that. Now this was back in the mid-1980s, and you could still find full-service gas stations, occasionally. Well, one day, that is all I could find, when I needed a fill-up. The attendant would not touch my car. He made me fill up the tank, and still charged me the full-service price.

Yes, deception could be the way to go.

Shawn

[gamekeeper]

Nice Mustang I bet it didn't need "Jet Fuel"

Keeping on topic, are Alarm Mines legal in the USA? I have one set up by my car port.

[Chas.]

Friend of mine put up a sign that simply reads "SNAKE FARM".

[gak]

Similar to what adirondakjack just said, and I think a corollary to Hobie, IF the law permits you to put anything across your access, stretch a piece(s) of 2.5-3-4" PVC across, and score the PVC--at least in half but better thirds or quarters--so that with any force other than a strong wind or a very light accidental brushing it breaks away. (Do a test pipe. Once you've got it down, score the final "exactly" as the successful pilot). Hang some flags from .Cheap to replace. if you find you have to so more regularly than expected, proceed to a more "concrete" Plan B as some have outlined ideas for. Augment the above with clear, bright signs of course, on posts either side of said access. I still would try to place the above piping below typical 4 wheel'r (ATV) neck level, though that is getting a bit low. In any event, a whack on the head, arms or legs is gonna smart, but certainly shouldn't kill or maim if the breakaway feature's done right. Document all of the above overt efforts to "not cause undue physical harm." I agree, anything rope or cable-like more than a low piece of worthless sisal strand (ie weak string) is gonna cause trouble, and that string is bound to fail with just a little bit of provocation.

I also like the idea of punching several 4" holes, two feet ought to do it, sleeve em and place PVC pipes upright as posts--with flags attached atop, and again scoring them slightly (at least) near the bottom to breakaway with force. If you use your access, but infrequently, not that big a deal to get out, pull the five or six pipes, pass through and replace. Then again, others can do the same and you might just find yourself missing a lot of pvc pipe!

[rafter-7]

With a wide open entrance like that anything you put on the road they will just drive around and wreck your ditch.

about 400.00 dollars worth of fencing supplies and some time should fix it

2 panels
1 roll of smooth wire
20 T posts
4 8" wood posts to hang the panels

and that is if its not on the section line... if it is then you just donated that approach to the public even though you paid for it

^

[Mike8623]

I've had that problem for many years.........the only way you are going to stop people is to put up a physical barrier...........I don't think I'd put up anything that could be considered dangerous (or you will be in court).....but a fence should do it for most. In my experience if someone can get in they will, including the government. I've even had folks open my gate if I don't lock it, irregardless of the signs I've got posted .........the excuses they give are really something......... and good luck getting law enforcement to handle it, it will take hours for them to show up and if they do, good luck getting them to take enforcement action. I had one person drive up past 6 signs in a new red lexus suv...........well I have two St. Bernards and they had a little yap yap dog in their suv. my dogs saw the suv and wondered out, their little dog began barking and my dogs had a field day on the side of their nice looking red lexus trying to get at their little dog......I had to laugh......they didn't even stop........just turned around as fast as possible and that was the last I saw of them.

[33wcfshooter]

Like some of the others have said if you own the land and want to keep people out the best thing to do is string a woven wire fence and a gate with chains and locks on both ends and more signs.I work on my family's dairy farm and we have had some real problems keeping trespassers out(came to a real problem when a arrow went through the chopper and we didn't see anything till a cow died and a vet pulled a piece of brodhead out of her stomach). Check your local regs. some states if you post the lines to the law you can take the trespassers to court and have them fined. The best way to keep people off is to be there yourself or have someone around and kick the trespassers out. Don't string a cable or wire without checking the law it can get real bad if someone gets hurt because of it. Hope this helps I know how you feel it realy can get on your nerves when people don't respect your land and the law dosen't help the landowner very much.

[adirondakjack]

The problem my wife's Grandfather had was he LET the neighbor (who had property fronting another road, but his saw mill was most easily accessed from the GF's side) use the edge of his land as an impromptu road for trucks. After a time it sure looked like a road, and the guy using it had even put down stone in wet areas. Of all people, a local tax assessor clued him in he needed to restrict use periodically to keep his ownership known and prevent some sort of claim of annexation, which became all the more important when the access to the mill from the other side was sold off, leaving it landlocked except for this access which was only by way of his friendly allowances. The mill owner, facing hard times, didn't wanna BUY what he'd been getting for free, and the owner of the land didn't really wanna put him out of business, just prevent loss of his property. In the end they both died right around the same time, and the road was later turned into an apple orchard by subsequent owners of the GF's land. The mill burned down and and is now just woods.

My own issue was with a "fuzzy" property line and the neighboring landowner is absentee, the land "useless" wetlands (unbuildable), so local snowmobilers have created a trail network on it, but have encroached our property to get around one swampy part. I didn't wanna kill anybody with wire or a chain (chaining off "customarily used" trails without adequate lighting, signage, etc can be seen as a boobytrap and prosecuted if somebody gets hurt), so I used a peepot load of driveway markers to block it. Worked fine.

[madman4570]

The land Looks like rural hunting land etc. so might want to read this!

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-035/420-035.html
See Operation-----RESPECT:
Might want to go that route/there's strength in numbers

[bcp]

What about that orange snow fence for a gate?
Gobbler

http://www.teksupply.com/farm/supplies/ ... 10df5.html

[Topside]

Gobbler, I've tried the snow fence in the past. The high winds, especially in winter, leave it strewn all over. If I lived in the area, I'd be there to mend it and keep it looking good like your picture, but I'm a good 5 hours away. I will keep it in mind though as I have a nephew in the area might could look after it. Thanks,

T.

[madman4570]

post came up twice? My Bad

[madman4570]

Been thinking about this
I take it this isnt your main entrance to your home that every day your always coming and going constantly.
I take it you could live with somthing 12ft wide where the mouths entrance narrows a bit by looking at your photos?

Lets not get too over kill and you want it cheap!(but safe/pretty rugged/replaceable cheap)
(2)4X4X10 treated posts set one on each side of driveway, 12ft apart.
(2)1X8X12 treated boards(wide enough to appear visable/substantial making a statement!
(4)1 inch deep slotted board hangers(each which is wood screwed in at 2ft and 4ft on each post)
(1) 80lb Bag concrete

Total cost, what ? ----$40

Once your post are in you simply just drop each board in its slot.
The amount of board break away force would depend on your type hanger(could be extremely little,or could be all the way up to board breakage)your choice.

Cant imagine with those wide boards/signs/reflective tape on boards etc.)you could be worried about some yahoo getting hurt on your posted entrance??
If someone is that stupid to ignore all them things maybe gene pool cleansing time could be a good thing?
JMO though!

[Topside]

If someone is that stupid to ignore all them things maybe gene pool cleansing time could be a good thing?

We think alike on the gene pool thing madman. Thank you for your idea (on the construction part). Am writin it down.

T.