OT (unless you bipod your levergun) - Accuracy & Bipods?

[AJMD429]

I've tried bipods (rarely on leverguns, though ) and while I find them sort of helpful if I'm going to shoot prone, I seem to get better groups prone using a folded up blanket or jacket or smashed cardboard box or just about anything, vs. a bipod.

I've tried fixed, flexible, and very flexible ones, both stock-mounted and barrel-mounted, and letting them 'bounce', vs. holding the gun down, etc. Am I missing something? (...literally... )

Check this video out:

This is basically a commercial for Savage, but notice how the bipod 'jumps' with his shots, yet unless it's totally faked, which I doubt, he HITS his targets pretty well (unsure the MOA, and the wind/elevation doping is of course a big factor, but still that bipod just hops!)

http://savageaccuracy.com/2010/01/04/st ... ommercial/

[JReed]

I don't have much experience shooting off Bi-pods but have a couple friends that have them on most of their bolt guns. One of which is a former Marine Sniper. I asked him about it one time he said he just lets the gun rest on them while pulling the butt firmly into his shoulder with the firing hand and let the rifle recoil naturally. I imagine it is like anything in the shooting sports practice practice practice.

[Malamute]

I've shot a little with a bipod on a 1903 Springfield sporter. I used the shooting sling I believe, and got a group of about 7/8" with Rem 180 Cor-Loct spitzer factory loads. I've used binoculars and my fist for prone rests when hunting antelope and other things, and I'd rather have had a bipod. Carried in a day pack it would be handy for long prone shots. Most of the shots on antelope were about 300 yards, and I was hitting within a couple-3 inches of intended point of impact.

[C. Cash]

Strangely, I've had these same thoughts here lately. I sure like the clip on bipods we had in the Army. Be neat to try with a lever, clipped to the mag tube, and see how one does. Probably a bit harsh to shoot the heavy boomers in the prone, more than 5-10 times, but for that one shot it should work great. Much more practical than hauling shooting sticks everywhere, unless you have a sherpa to carry such things.

[Russiancowboy]

I own a Savage model 111 FCNS fit with a bi-pod. The rifle shoots fantastic. I shoot from a bench with the bipod. I support the bottom of the stock with my left hand. Allow the rifle to recoil on its own. I don't try to hold it down or fight it. That being said, I have been punched a few times by my optics. The less contact with the rifle the better. Muscle tremmors make for inconsistent groups. I have not tried a bipod on any lever guns. My thought is that the extra contact from the bipod could throw off the harmonics of the barrel, if it were mounted to the mag tube.

[firefuzz]

My thought is that the extra contact from the bipod could throw off the harmonics of the barrel, if it were mounted to the mag tube.

My experience with bipods is that unless the barrel is free-floated the use of a bipod can dramaticly change the POI, especially if you "torque" the rifle down onto the bipod and don't let it rest naturally. The old SP1 ARs were a prime example with groups being up to 10" higher with the bipod on.

This is the one I use on my varmit and hunting guns (all my bolt guns are free-floated) and my heavy FF AR:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1497 ... /VERSA_POD

It's a little heavier than a lot of models, but has tilt, pan, and cant adjustments with tension adjusters for all. Solid as a concrete slab and no grass grabbing, sproinging springs to deal with. Buy additional attaching mounts and use the same bipod for all your guns.

Add one of these to the buttstock and you might as well be shooting from a bench rest.

http://www.site-secure.biz/accushot/cat ... p?cPath=21

Rob

[AJMD429]

This is the one I use on my varmit and hunting guns (all my bolt guns are free-floated) and my heavy FF AR:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1497 ... /VERSA_POD

I like the Versa-Pod too, and find it 'bounces' FAR less than the Harris ones do, perhaps due to the fore/aft play in the design.

However, when you think about that factor, saying you have the gun pushed 'forward' on the bipod, as it recoils, the arc of travel of the bipod as the feet stay put and the gun recoils would tend to lift the gun, whereas if you had the gun positioned so the bipod legs were straight up, the gun wouldn't be shoved 'up' by recoil, and if the gun is in the 'rear' most position on the bipod, recoil would 'bounce' the gun more than in the middle/neutral position. It is just one of those things that seems like there's no way you could do it 'the same' every time, so no way it could be accurate, but for me at least, the Versa-Pod does seem to do a better job than the Harris, and I wonder if the lesser 'bounce' is a factor.

Fascinating topic to me, even though I'm not a long-range, 'varmint', or 'sniper' shooter in particular.

I do see lots of experts using bipods to do shooting far more accurately than I ever could, though...

[Old Ranger]

When I went to sniper school in 1969, it was in Da Nang hosted by the U.S.M.C. and this little Army Ranger was welcomed with open arms. That said, my weapon for distance was a 1957 Win. Mod 70 in 30'06 with Lake City match ammo. I had a Redfield 6X scope my dad sent to me and used the base off his rifle that he sent as well. The army didn't have a school then and optics were very hard to find in Viet Nam, thus used my dad's rig!

I had blasted the wonderfull bluing and parkerized the barrel and receiver and the stock was by then dulled down by repeated rubs of dirt and sand to make it not shine. I hated doing that to this fine weapon, but one must do as they must I expect. Bipods were around, but not that I could use. I rested my weapon on anything I could find in my hide or on the trails etc. That system along with a super fine M14 were my two basic weapons.

Uopn returning from my second tour, I was an instructor at Ft. Benning and there we had simple bipods made availble. I tried to use one, but had long since gained confidence with the "Use what you find" method for a rest.

Having been a gunsmith for uncle sam when I wasn't in the field, and later in police work I was working on firearms both as a side job and in the department, I set up hundreds of weapons. Some were for tatical units and thus I worked on M700's in .308 Win. and did lots of mod's to them including detachable bipods. From that I know a bipod located on the stock of a boltgun can and will aid in your shooting. The pressure to the rifle as a whole is like that of resting it on a bag at the bench. No problem ever occurred using bipods in this weapon platform.

Where I would be worried about with a Levergun in placing a bipod attached to the mag below the barrel would be the undue pressure placed in a location that is not designed to receive it. In short, I believe that the harmonics of the barrel while the projectile travels down the bore will be upset by this unusual change in vibration. If one sets up their weapon firing off a sandbag at the bench chances are good that the forearm of the weapon is resting upon a bag or mounted rest. The mag tube is not part of the picture while sightin goes on. Later, if a change in the balance of the platform such as a bipod attached to the mag tube, this will cause an interuption of the normal vibration of the platform and thus cause accuracy to suffer.

My #1 levergun is a Marlin 1895G. The snubnose of .45-70's to be sure, but it is an amazing weapon as far as accuracy is concerned. With a 1.25-4X mil-dot scope I am able to print sub MOA at 100 Yards with the right load and a steady rest. If I were to place the mag tube on the rest the point of impact would change for the worst. It is my belief that placing a pod on the mag would be a bad idea that will haunt your quest for accurate shooting from a rest.

That's my take anyway.

Wade

[AJMD429]

My #1 levergun is a Marlin 1895G. The snubnose of .45-70's to be sure, but it is an amazing weapon as far as accuracy is concerned. With a 1.25-4X mil-dot scope I am able to print sub MOA at 100 Yards with the right load and a steady rest.

I'm thinking your 'Da Nang Sniper School' has alot to do with that accuracy, although the gun obviously has to do its part.

Makes sense to me to avoid mounting anything on a barrel; if I bipod-ed a levergun, I'd put it where the front sling-swivel is. I pretty much use them on single-shot, bolt, or semiautos. . .and my .223 Contender Super-14 .

Since leverguns are not really ideal for 'prone' shooting, I doubt I'd ever scope one, unless it was one of the really long ones you use while sitting in tall grass.

It still reminds me of the difference in resting the forend on a rolled-up towel, vs a tree-branch, where the 'hard' surface induces a less-predictable 'bounce' than the towel. I'm surprised the ultra-precision shooters haven't found some sort of shock-absorbing bipod that would work even better.

[L_Kilkenny]

I like bipods and have used them extensively with my varmint and predator guns. But I'm really trying to push myself towards light and handy guns and a bipod completely ruins the feel for me. This year I'm gonna leave the bipods at home a work with some sticks of various configurations and also keep a back pack handy for prone shots.

As for accuracy: I don't notice a difference between bags, a bipod or improvised field supports. Any solid support is as effective as the next for me. Now keep in mind accuracy should not be confused with POA. With most centerfire rifles most of the muzzle jump you see is after the bullet leaves the barrel. But POA can be differnt between bags, bipods and off hand IME. So I tend to make my final adjustments with how I intend to shoot the gun in the field.

LK

[SFRanger7GP]

In my former life, I used to shoot quite a bit off of a bipod. I found that the POI would be about 10" higher than POA at 100 yards anytime I shot off of a hard surface. I could "muscle the rifle" and maintain POA/POI, but muscling a rifle makes consistency difficult. I ended up keeping the bipod in my ruck/.pack most of the time and using the pack for a rest.

Now, I don't go hunting without a tripod. I have one of the good ones that gives me a solid rest sitting, kneeling or standing. It also makes a great rest for my binos and a great walking stick.

[AJMD429]

Anyone ever use these...? http://www.slingstix.com/



They are shock-corded bipod sticks on a base that is part of the sling (shown below 'packed' and 'out').

[SFRanger7GP]

I tried them. They are not very stable. I have tried all of them and I think the Stoney Point or Bog Pod tripods are the most stable.

[El Chivo]

it would seem to me that with the shorter barrels of leverguns at rest or bipod would change the harmonics less than with longer barrels.