OT Questions about IDPA/USPSA

[Otto]

A. Does USPSA not allow 1911's?

2. I could swear that, earlier this summer, I had read in the IDPA rules a maximum barrel length of 4". Over the past few days I have read posts on several forums wherein people allude to using full-sized pistols. Did I imagine the 4-inch rule?

Third, if I understand correctly, 1911's may be used in Enhanced and Custom categories. Right?

[fisheadgib]

Go to www.uspsa.org to find out anything you ever wanted to know about USPSA. The website is very informative and all of the requirements and restrictions for the various classes are clearly described. IDPA is an entirely different organization that I know little about but I'm sure that they have a website.

[Otto]

I already have been to both websites. The USPSA rulebook seems to suggest that single-action pistols are disallowed, but doesn't say that specifically. In addition, I see no 1911's on the list of approved firearms. Some manufacturers are not listed at all.

[Hobie]

I must not understand your question. I went to the site and immediately see this:


Then I looked at approved Colts and see this

2000 (29 oz.), Double Eagle (39 oz.)
Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved

Looking at the approved list it seems to me that ONLY the 1911, Browning HP and clones thereof are excluded. All the whiz bang plastic fantastics, DA or SA revolvers etc, are included. Why SA revolvers are permitted but the 1911 is excluded (except those with the LDA triggers or DAs like the Double Eagle) is beyond me. Then again, in the rules, they make specific descriptions of allowed 1911 guns.

Seems to me the only way to know is to ask them. Maybe one of "them" is here but the quickest way is to drop the organization an e-mail.

[bhk]

I shot a 1911 in IDPA and so did most of my fellow shooters. There are several classes in each shoot, one of which is Custom Defense Pistol that includes 1911s (most of which were stock, BTW).

[fisheadgib]

I already have been to both websites. The USPSA rulebook seems to suggest that single-action pistols are disallowed, but doesn't say that specifically. In addition, I see no 1911's on the list of approved firearms. Some manufacturers are not listed at all.

I couldn't imagine someone using a single action pistol in a uspsa match. I doubt you could finish a four stage match before nightfall.

[fisheadgib]

Looking at the approved list it seems to me that ONLY the 1911, Browning HP and clones thereof are excluded. All the whiz bang plastic fantastics, DA or SA revolvers etc, are included. Why SA revolvers are permitted but the 1911 is excluded (except those with the LDA triggers or DAs like the Double Eagle) is beyond me. Then again, in the rules, they make specific descriptions of allowed 1911 guns.

That list is of the pistols approved for "production" class. I've used 1911's in open, limited, and limited10 for years.

[Hobie]

Looking at the approved list it seems to me that ONLY the 1911, Browning HP and clones thereof are excluded. All the whiz bang plastic fantastics, DA or SA revolvers etc, are included. Why SA revolvers are permitted but the 1911 is excluded (except those with the LDA triggers or DAs like the Double Eagle) is beyond me. Then again, in the rules, they make specific descriptions of allowed 1911 guns.

That list is of the pistols approved for "production" class. I've used 1911's in open, limited, and limited10 for years.

So 1911s aren't approved for "production" class? It must be just me, but I seem to miss the whole point of that.

[2ndovc]

I was classified as Enhanced when I was sooting my 1911 in IDPA.

jb

[Otto]

I must not understand your question. I went to the site and immediately see this:


Then I looked at approved Colts and see this

2000 (29 oz.), Double Eagle (39 oz.)
Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved

That was precisely my point: most of the photos on the site depict what appear to be 1911's, yet there are no 1911's on the approved list. Apparently that list only applies to certain divisions.

It would seem my confusion was aided by the fact that, apparently, I got the two rulebooks confused. IDPA has ONE division in which guns must "be double action, double action only, or safe action (when the trigger is pulled, the hammer/striker is cocked and then released)" which, to me, means no single-action pistols.

If I can't read, maybe I shouldn't be handling guns at all.

I couldn't imagine someone using a single action pistol in a uspsa match. I doubt you could finish a four stage match before nightfall.

I don't get it.

[Otto]

Looking at the approved list it seems to me that ONLY the 1911, Browning HP and clones thereof are excluded. All the whiz bang plastic fantastics, DA or SA revolvers etc, are included. Why SA revolvers are permitted but the 1911 is excluded (except those with the LDA triggers or DAs like the Double Eagle) is beyond me. Then again, in the rules, they make specific descriptions of allowed 1911 guns.

That list is of the pistols approved for "production" class. I've used 1911's in open, limited, and limited10 for years.

So 1911s aren't approved for "production" class? It must be just me, but I seem to miss the whole point of that.

1911's aren't produced. They are creations, works of art.

[Old Ironsights]

"back in the day" when I shot IPSC (still a Life member of USPSA) 90+% of the people playing shot stock or only slightly tidied-up 1911s.

Mine was a home-built "CCO" (Officer's lower, Commander Upper) with a drop-in bushing-comp.

Not too long after I dropped out though the game went progressively toward "Space/Race" guns which held only a passing relation to "real" guns even though they were essentially based on 1911 mechanicals.

As time went on, those of us who were more than a little disgruntled with the loss of "practical" from IPSC/USPSA started playing in the IDPA - which had been more geared to Glocks and their "less than modifyable" status.

Still, IPSC and USPSA kind of got the hint and created the "stock"/"production" class in an attempt to recover some of the origins of the sport, but it might be a little too late...

IDPA rules:

The firearms are grouped into five (5) divisions: 1) Custom Defensive
Pistol (.45ACP semi-automatics only); 2) Enhanced Service Pistol (9mm
(9x19) or larger caliber semi-automatics); 3) Stock Service Pistol
(9mm (9x19) or larger caliber double action, double action only, or
safe action semi-automatics); 4) Enhanced Service Revolver (.38
caliber or larger double action revolvers); and 5) Stock Service Revolver
(.38 caliber or larger double action revolvers).

[fisheadgib]

I couldn't imagine someone using a single action pistol in a uspsa match. I doubt you could finish a four stage match before nightfall.

I don't get it.

I was thinking about single action revolvers. My mistake.
An I don't understand why they don't have any single action autoloaders in production class either.

[Hobie]

When I think "production" I think about something that is as produced from the factory. I understand how gamers think, that's one reason I don't play games. It might be self limiting, but one thing it certainly does is limit my frustration level. I "played" by rules all my life, after retiring I try to avoid "rules" as much as possible.

[Old Ironsights]

When I think "production" I think about something that is as produced from the factory. I understand how gamers think, that's one reason I don't play games. It might be self limiting, but one thing it certainly does is limit my frustration level. I "played" by rules all my life, after retiring I try to avoid "rules" as much as possible.

Which is exactly why IDPA was created. IPSC/USPSA's idea of "Production" is essentially "anything you don't have to special order" - which includes a lot of utterly worthless (for Duty/CCW) "production" guns.

IDPA pretty well killed that with its rules. Anybody that wants to shoot a "regular joe" Stock Service Pistol (or Revolver) can compete quite handily with whatever he/she is carrying... even if it's a 5-shot snubby.

Not so with IPSC/USPSA...

[cas]

USPSA Production is for DA or DAO pistols* with no external modifications. It has to meet the USPSA/NROI specifications. If you want to do an action job and change the sights, that's fine. Any external parts you change, other that the sights and grips (IIRC) have to be OEM parts. There's no reason you can't enjoy playing the game with a bone stock pistol. There's no reason you can't be competitive with a bone stock pistol.

USPSA/IPSC is a game. It's not training/practice for CCW/Duty carry. Either way, I don't believe there's a gun on the Production list that you couldn't carry.

*On the production list you will see "Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved". You CAN shoot your J frame in Production.

As well, if you want to shoot a 5 shot J frame in Revolver class you are more than welcome to, it's totally legal. Will you stay competitive with someone shooting a 5" S&W 625? Of course not, same as you wouldn't do well with a PPK against a Glock 17, but they have to draw lines somewhere, there can't be a separate class for every gun.


As for the original question... USPSA has an entire division just for 1911's called Single Stack.
You could also shoot it in Limited-10 (as well as Limited and Open, but at a disadvantage).

In IDPA you'd shoot the 1911 in CDP. (custom defensive pistol)