Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
And of course, I just had to pull one apart to see what makes them tick.
The bullets seem to be fairly soft.
I compared the powder to my GOEX 2F and 3F.
It is definitely not GOEX, they must use Swiss or another brand.
The granulations seems to be shinier and slightly
finer than 3F GOEX.
Model 73 range report will be coming in a week or so.
Nice update. Soft cast bullets are good; that is what you want. I look forward to the range report.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester. Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
That's where some of the legend of Swiss/shuetzen powder being hotter than Goex. The European stuff is about 1f size smaller than the corresponing Goex. ie 2f erupeon is about the same size as 3f goex.
My 38 wcf bisley clone likes 35 grs of Schuetzen 2f with the rcbs bullet real well.
Yeh that's the often parrotted mantra. Doesn't really mean its true except for in the mind of the person spreading the inexperienced story, but yet one more time......
I like Shuetzen better than Swiss, but prefer Goex over them both.
Don McDowell wrote:Yeh that's the often parrotted mantra. Doesn't really mean its true except for in the mind of the person spreading the inexperienced story, but yet one more time......
Hi-
I can't dispute your experience with BP & cartridge guns (I have only ever used Goex or Pyrodex, so far, in brass cartridges), but there is no question in my experience with patched RB in muzzle loaders, that Swss 3f, for whatever reason, burns noticeably cleaner (seems "hotter" too, but that is subjective) than Goex 3f. This is a charge of 40 or 60 grains of 3f, .440 patched RB in both flinters and percussion guns. I've used them both (Goex and Swiss) extensively, sometimes on the same day, in this manner.
There are probably good reasons why this might not be true or evident with breech loading cartridge guns, but there is a basis in fact for some to claim that Swiss is "cleaner" i.e fouls less, at least in certain configurations.
For the most part Swiss leaves a different type of fouling than Goex. It's usually either a hard red clay stuff, or a greyish clay like stuff.
Swiss is good powder, you have to treat it different than Goex , but I have yet to see anywhere it justifies the extra $ over even Goex Express. From the shooting I've done with both Swiss and Schuetzen, Schuetzen is the better of the two in both preformance and cost.....Won't be buying any more Swiss, but do keep a few cans of Schuetzen on hand.
Nice looking ammo....and with what appears to be a copy (2 lube grooves) of the original .38 W.C.F. bullet as well.
If the powder has a polished appearance it is likely Swiss. Swiss is about 10% denser and as Don mentioned it is a bit finer cut.
What is the weight of the powder charge?
My experience with 2 lube grooved original design bullets in repeating rifles is different than Don's. He does use a different lube (Sagebrush) than I do (SPG) so perhaps that may be the difference.
In my testing, Swiss was the only powder that I have found that will not foul out (ring of hard fouling starting back from the muzzle) in my 24" barrels (.44-40 & .45 Colt). I have tried all the Goex offerings & Schuetzen and Swiss will shoot accurately much longer than either brand because of that.
It is neat making a vintage rifle talk once again.
Looking forward to a range report......
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
Just called BAC and was told it is Swiss brand powder.
They will not disclose how many grain's of powder they use.
I do know it is compressed very well. I had to use a small
screwdriver to loosen up the powder to get it to pour out of
the shell.
Don, I have 2 of those brass adjustable scales
used for muzzle loading, they both read different
one from the other. One is marked at 10 grain
increments, the other at 5 grain increments.
So a 36 or 38 grain spot on reading would be
very difficult to achieve.
I did pour the loss powder back in the shell and
it filled to about 1/8” to the top. So I would think
that to be about the max amount of powder that
round will handle.
casastahle wrote:Don, I have 2 of those brass adjustable scales
used for muzzle loading, they both read different
one from the other. One is marked at 10 grain
increments, the other at 5 grain increments.
So a 36 or 38 grain spot on reading would be
very difficult to achieve.
I did pour the loss powder back in the shell and
it filled to about 1/8” to the top. So I would think
that to be about the max amount of powder that
round will handle.
Just pour it in your regular powder scale. Easy and simple.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Don't you have a reloadig scale?
37 grs of goex 3f and I think 35 of Scheutzen 2 is what I've messed with .
Either one benefits from a fiber wad under the bullet and is compressed quite a bit tho.
casastahle wrote:No I don't have a reloading scale.
The only reloading I do is brass 12 ga. BP shotshells.
This is why I purchased this loaded BP ammo.
J e
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
casastahle wrote:No I don't have a reloading scale.
The only reloading I do is brass 12 ga. BP shotshells.
This is why I purchased this loaded BP ammo.
J e
Yes guilty by admission Joe.
I do post plenty of pictures
casastahle wrote:No I don't have a reloading scale.
The only reloading I do is brass 12 ga. BP shotshells.
This is why I purchased this loaded BP ammo.
J e
Yes guilty by admission Joe.
I do post plenty of pictures
Tell you what, just bring that round you took apart over here and I'll weight the powder for you.
That is ......... if I can find where I put the scales .
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
I got 2 sets of scales, jump on over after supper and we'll weigh some out, OR bring your gun and ammo over Saturday and we'll ring it out and load some more. Got 2 sets of dies for the 38wcf and a couplethree hundred bullets all cast up,also...
casastahle wrote:No I don't have a reloading scale.
That is about the most shocking thing I've heard in years.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester. Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Ysabel Kid wrote:Isn't BP measured volumetrically, versus by weight?
Cool post. Looking forward to the range report!
NO! Black powder charges are always measured in grains weight. It's the fake stuff ie pyrodex etc that is designed to be used by setting a blackpowder measure to a grains weight setting and then poured off from that measure by volume.....
Besides can you show me where to get a scale that measures in "volume"?
e
Yes guilty by admission Joe.
