ranger 30-30 problems.

[Captain Hero]

hey guys. new to the forum and have a few questions for my ranger. i bought the gun used. hope you guys can help. after picking up the rifle today i put 5 rounds in the mag and when i went to cycle the action, i was having chambering issues. almost like when a pistol stovepipes. when i closed the action, it wouldnt let the round feed properly into the chamber. the round would lock up between the chamber and the bolt when i tried close it. the rifle fired and extracted just fine, it was feeding problems that i encountered today with almost every round of the box of 20 i shot. maybe only 3 of 20 fed properly. ive never had this issue in some of the other 94's ive shot nor the marlins. any help or suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.
josh

[J Miller]

Josh,

Welcome to the forum.

What you describe is new to me also. Having had this trouble with a Rossi 92 though, I'd think there might be a problem with the cartridge guides.
Those are the two horizontal bars attached to the insides of the receiver with the angled slot it them.
As the bolt pushes the cartridge up the angled lifter the rim contacts and slides up through the guides into a more or less horizontal position. Then it rides into the chamber.

Reach inside the receiver and make sure the guides are tight. If they are loose you'll need a tiny screwdriver to tighten the screws from the outside.

Does the rifle do this when you cycle the action fast, slow, or any speed?

Another thing to check is the cartridge lifter. Open the action. Just before the action reaches it's full open position the bolt will contact the lifter and pivot it up. It should snap up under spring force. Do that then push on it with your finger. There should be resistance, it should not fall easily. If it just falls down then it could be dropping as the bolt pushes the cartridge forward. This will cause a similar jam to what you are describing.

I'll bet the rifle did this to the original owner and that's why it was on the used gun shelf.

Joe

[Captain Hero]

the rifle was doing this at all speeds.

i beleive the second portion of your reply may be the problem. when opening the action slowly to the almost fully opened position, the elevator stays down. i have to open the action completley to get it to ride up. i pushed on it and i was able to move the whole action and all with my pinky and it stayed in place wherever i stop putting force on it. i did this a few times.

the guides seem to be ok.

i too would say this is why the previous owner rid himself of the weapon. is this easily fixed, or is it a major issue in having it repaired?

thanks for the information J.

[J Miller]

the rifle was doing this at all speeds.

i beleive the second portion of your reply may be the problem. when opening the action slowly to the almost fully opened position, the elevator stays down. i have to open the action completley to get it to ride up. i pushed on it and i was able to move the whole action and all with my pinky and it stayed in place wherever i stop putting force on it. i did this a few times.
What you described above is a correct. The carrier does not pop up until the very last movement of the bolt. The carrier spring should hold it up or down. As it gets to the center of it's travel it should snap up or down.

the guides seem to be ok.
If the guides are tight and look good there is another possibility. They could be the wrong guides. Winchester made the Ranger in several hand gun calibers as well as the 30-30. It's a very remote chance, but it could cause the jam.

i too would say this is why the previous owner rid himself of the weapon. is this easily fixed, or is it a major issue in having it repaired?
Diagnosis over the internet is iffy at best. I wish I could get my hands on it. Are you anywhere near central IL?
I'm not positive, but if it's an AE model, it is I hope then a call to Browning might be in order. They are still the warranty center for Winchester rifles as far as I know.
(800) 945-5237 or (801) 876-3440.

thanks for the information J.
You're welcome. Hope I can help some.
Joe

[Captain Hero]

it is an angle eject model. i live in east tennessee a few miles from the NC border. not exactly a sunday drive.

i have noticed that half the time the elevator just falls back down on its own accord when the bolt reaches the center of its travel. doesnt seem to have much tension either way of its movement.

with the guides, stuff does happen, and i dont have a clue as to what the ones look like for the pistol calibers. so im blind on that. as i dont have very many options, i guess ill have to ship it to browning. any idea of what it may cost me out of pocket to have it repaired? rough estimate of course. i just hate having a gun that dont work. thanks for the info J.

[iceman]

A local gunsmith should be able to fix you up.

[Captain Hero]

thats what im hoping for. i dont want to ship it to browning if i dont have to. ill be glad when i can enjoy shooting it.

my buddies told me to ditch it. but i dont give up easy when it comes to my guns.

correct me if im wrong, but on the wins, the cross bolt safety was produced before the tang right? anyone got an idea of the timeframe when this thing may have been made? the serial number is in the low 6's.

this is the first lever gun i owned but i have shot many models. this is also the first time i seen one jam like mine. ironic.

thanks.

[J Miller]

Josh,

I'm not sure at all about the cost to repair. It's been many years since I sent a gun back to the factory for repair and costs for shipping alone have gone way up.

Here is some pics to look at:

First a cartridge lifter. The point the lifter spring rides on is indicated. As the lifter pops up the spring rests on the forward side holding it up,
When the bolt moves forward and starts to push the lifter down, the spring will cam over the point and when it reaches the back side will pop the lifter down. The spring does two things, holds the lifter up and keeps it down.
Here are two different lifters. The top one for a handgun caliber 94, in this case 44 mag, 45 Colt, and the bottom one is for the rifle calibers.

Win 94 lifter 45 C ilistrated.JPG

Mdl 1894 cartridge lifter 1914.jpg

Here is a picture of the carrier spring in your rifle:

94 Carrier Spring mantage sm.JPG

Cartridge guides:
The top one is of my 85 Vintage 94AE .45 Colt. You can see clearly see the cartridge guides protruding from either side of the receiver. And you can see how far forward the angled slots are on the guides.

Receiver Top web.JPG

The next pic is of my 30-30. The guides are also clearly visible and you can see how the angled slots are further back.

Cartridge guides.JPG

I love posting pics ....
Anywho, hope this helps a bit.

Joe

[Captain Hero]

thanks for the pictures joe. they cleared some confusion i had on the operation. ill post some pics of this one's reciever and give you a better picture of what im looking at to see if it will help you on your end any, after i get some batteries for the camera this evening.

thanks.

[pwl44m]

Beings U just bought it. Take it back where U got it unless of course U got it from an individual,then U r on Your own. Or if it was "as is"

[Captain Hero]

i have to wait until monday to do so. they were closed when i got off work today but i plan on doing so. usually his sales are final but im a pretty regular customer so im not sure what he is going to do on his end.

[Griff]

While it's not common for a .30-30 to stovepipe, it's usually a guide or lifter problem as Joe sez. If both the left and right guides are present (yes, I came across one that stovepiped, the right guide was missing)... they may not be fitted properly. The carrier spring may be broken. That can be fairly common. The spring really controls the rate of climb in the carrier... with no spring the carrier starts off too fast and the cartridge will "snap" thru the guides and may stovepipe... Possible, as you describe a condition that indicates a weak or broken carrier spring. It doesn't take much to move the carrier, but once the carrier overcomes the spring pressure on it's cam, it should move both up and down with a noticeably brisk motion.

Another potential problem may be burrs or an ill fitting ejector, as it may be pushing DOWN on the rim instead of forward on the rim to push the cartridge off the carrier and into the chamber. The relationship between the bottom of the bolt and back of the cartridge might be outta whack.

I don't have any of my 94's present so I can't give you any measurements for comparison.

[Captain Hero]

just got back from the shop where i bought the gun and he exchanged the problematic ranger for a new mossberg 464 at no cost. ive been a mossberg fan for many years but have never fired any of their rifles. scatterguns only. im curious to see how this rifle will perform. ive read negative reviews on them but my gut wouldnt let me turn it down. does anyone have any experience with the 464?

thanks.

[J Miller]

just got back from the shop where i bought the gun and he exchanged the problematic ranger for a new mossberg 464 at no cost. ive been a mossberg fan for many years but have never fired any of their rifles. scatterguns only. im curious to see how this rifle will perform. ive read negative reviews on them but my gut wouldnt let me turn it down. does anyone have any experience with the 464?

thanks.

Yep, several folks here have had experience with them. Bad and good. Do a search on OJ and you'll get to his comments on them.
Or do a search on the Mossberg 464 I'm sure you'll find the comments.

Too bad about the Winchester, I was hoping to learn what was wrong. I was wondering if I came close with my diagnosis.

Joe

[Captain Hero]

the gentleman at the shop is going to call when the smith gets done with it and fill me in on what was wrong. ill then relay the message. im curious myself to see what it was that caused the jams.

[Griff]

just got back from the shop where i bought the gun and he exchanged the problematic ranger for a new mossberg 464 at no cost. ive been a mossberg fan for many years but have never fired any of their rifles. scatterguns only. im curious to see how this rifle will perform. ive read negative reviews on them but my gut wouldnt let me turn it down. does anyone have any experience with the 464?
thanks.

None good that I'm aware of. Personally, I'm sure I'd rather have a repairable Winchester 94 than MOSSBERG'S 464 REINCARNATION OF THE 94. Especially when I think your issue was an easily repaired one.

I certainly hope you had better luck than as described in that topic. Uh, where's that Ranger at?

[Griff]

Yep, several folks here have had experience with them. Bad and good. Do a search on OJ and you'll get to his comments on them.
Or do a search on the Mossberg 464 I'm sure you'll find the comments.
Too bad about the Winchester, I was hoping to learn what was wrong. I was wondering if I came close with my diagnosis.
Joe

+1. {Dang you're fast, Joe!}

[Captain Hero]

tennessee. ill be taking this thing to the range sometime this week and am curious to see if any issues arise.

[TedH]

Hate to say it, but I'd rather have a broke Winchester than a 464.

[Captain Hero]

well joe, your diagnosis was correct. the spring was actually broken. the smith is going to order the parts in. you did good.

[J Miller]

well joe, your diagnosis was correct. the spring was actually broken. the smith is going to order the parts in. you did good.

WOW!, I'm getting good at this. Maybe I should start a PayPal account and charge for my services.

Joe

[Captain Hero]

[pwl44m]

Hey Joe !! Before U start charging, whats wrong with My 53, it wont shoot ?

[J Miller]

Hey Joe !! Before U start charging, whats wrong with My 53, it wont shoot ?

Lets see ....... you forgot to load it

Joe

[pwl44m]

R U psychic or sumthin, that was going to be My next Post. Boy I'm glad Your not charging yet.
I only have 2 bullets so I don't want to waste them.