OT- the best SAA?

[RDB]

Just to stir the pot a bit Current production, who makes the best SAA? No article or Internet opinions but your opinion, based on real experience.

If you don't own it and shoot it, you don't get a vote

Your vote would be better fortified by a picture of your blaster and a appropriate target!

No bias intended but a hommage of sorts..an original BP Colt to get rolling.

[AJMD429]

Only brand I've yet owned is Ruger - and I have no complaints. Most of 'em were '70's vintage. I pretty much treat my SA's as 'utility' or 'plinking' firearms, so don't care if they aren't particularly pretty, and although I like them strong, don't get upset if the fit or accuracy isn't perfect.

[madman4570]

I know there are better high grade fancier SA's out there, but got to tell ya "Bang for the Buck" which dollars spent does mean somthing in this equation I like my 1994 7.5" .45 Colt Ruger SS Vaquero.
When I look at it real hard, it just feels very well made/shoots darn good/and the gloss stainless metal on it is very good.Now consider it ran around $300 its a keeper.

[BigSky56]

Ruger works every time in 45LC have 2 loads a 255 @900fps & a 255@1200fps the 900 load will shoot thru a deer. danny

[J Miller]

Just to stir the pot a bit Current production, who makes the best SAA? No article or Internet opinions but your opinion, based on real experience.

If you don't own it and shoot it, you don't get a vote

Your vote would be better fortified by a picture of your blaster and a appropriate target!

No bias intended but a hommage of sorts..an original BP Colt to get rolling.

Well, that's interesting. You ask who makes the best "current production SAA" then you post a pic of an original black powder Colt.

Well, I guess I can't participate in this thread cos my newest single action is 35 years old.




Oh, and for those who didn't catch it, the OP asked "Who makes the best SAA? Rugers do not qualify as they are not Single Action Armies. Technically that eliminates every thing but Colt, certain USFA, Uberti, and other clone models.

You really didn't think I was gonna stay out of this thread did you?

[Chas.]

I only have opinions about Ruger and BFR, since that's what I own. Rugers are great, but BFRs are greater. They're like a finely fitted/finished Ruger. When disassembled, they're almost identical to Rugers, but that may be because the frames are are made by Ruger's Pine Tree Castings foundry. I sure wish Ruger had bought Magnum Research rather than Kahr Arms.

[Don McDowell]

Best for what? and who's the final determiner of "best"?
I like my Colt and clone and my Rugers.... Best? depends on what day and what's on the agenda.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I posted this on the SASS wire a while back. Those guys compete with these guns so the gun see some serious abuse.

Here is my perspective as a full time CAS gunsmith. What we are doing is like Auto racing but we are racing guns.
This is from my Website;

I`ve said this a thousand times. What we are doing is like taking the family sedan(or stock gun) to the race track. You can do that once or twice, but if you do it on a regular bases you will eventually see your crankshaft in the rearview mirrow. Same thing with these guns. If you don`t tune them to race and do the things to make them last they will eat themselfs up.
These Cowboy guns are old designs that just won`t take the abuse of the CAS game right out of the box. The Rugers are the exception, but I don`t consider them to be an old design like the other CAS guns.

To compare the Ruger action to the old Colt style action is like comparing 60's muscle Cars to a Ford model "T'. The Ruger with nothing more than some spring work will last forever even doing the racing thing.
Now if you have your heart set on a Colt style gun buy the USFA. There are the finest SAA's available today.
If you want a gun to last, to hand down to your kids, to be functional a hundred years from now, avoid the colt style clone with the add-on lawyer parts. These guns just don't hold up. Other makers have tried it in the past and are no longer around, the hammerli's the, the old "D" cam Uberti's and a few more. Those small parts won't take long term abuse. That includes the Beretta and the Taurus Goucho (SEE below)



My list of the most rugged SAA type guns.
1.Rugers

Then the colt style guns.
2. USFA (Without a boubt, the finest made today)
3. Colt (sometimes)

The best European made colt style guns
4.EMF's Great Western II's by Pietta. (a dead on late 1st and 2nd gen colt clone with some upgrades)
5.Cimarron's Uberti made guns.

I just don't think the beretta or the taurus will take the long term abuse. The colt style lockwork clones like the Beretta stampede and the Taurus Goucho and the EAA bounty hunter have fatal flaws. These company's have gone in and added small delicate liability parts to the colt style lockworks. These add-on part will not stand the test of time. Small delicate parts is one of the reason the old colt thunderer and lightings were drop from the line. Same with the old top break smiths. Over time they just don't hold up. There have been other clones that had these small add on part that have gone by the wayside. The Hammerli's with the flip safety on the hammer. The most recent to be dropped were the Uberti "D" cam guns. They just didn't fair well. There are some SAA smiths that refused to even work on them.

[RDB]

Well, that's interesting. You ask who makes the best "current production SAA" then you post a pic of an original black powder Colt.

As I said an "No bias intended but a hommage of sorts..an original BP Colt".
Colt started it all, they are due some respect imo. I have owned and shot single action revolvers from Colt, Ruger, S&W, EMF, Cimmeron, Uberti and USFA. Some in several generations.

Who is best? Who is the judge? Who ever you decide is the best. Personal call imo.
At least two here that are full time smiths. That might slant your perception of "best" if you worked on them daily. Not too surprising they agree on the "finiest".

The best for me? Simple. Will it shoot to point of aim and not break. I perfer the internals on the current Cimmeron Ps...the guns will last longer than a Colt or USFA. But no huge changes really past the hand spring being a more durable coil spring. Fit, finish and how they shoot...hands down the USFA guns. Although Rugers generally shoot excpetionally well. So have some of my Cimmerons. Durability Ruger has that sewn up. Hard to duplicate the feel of a first gen Colt in your hand and the balance of the gun in 45 Colt. Only one company really duplicating that and it aint Colt.

But then I don't consider a single action revolver with adjustable sights worthy of a conversation Which is why we all have to decide what is "best".

[Roofuss]

Got a USFA SAA in .45LC { 4.75" barrel } in nickel, love it !

[Lefty Dude]

Well I guess my third gen pair of Colt SAA qualify. I use them in CAS/SASS matchs regularly. I ordered them from the Custom Shop in 2007. they are blued CC 4 3/4", 44-40's, With 44 special cylinders also. They were tuned by Jim Martin before I ever turned the cylinders. They have Colt springs that Jim did his magic on. The 44 special cylinder throats were reamed to .431". The 44-40 cylinders are stock throat size. Forcing cones are cut to eleven degrees. Both guns with the 44 special cylinders shoot almost one hole groups at 15 yards.(five shot clover leafs)

The newest addition is a Cimarron/Uberti Artillary model 5 1/2" BP frame 45 Colt. THis piece out shoots the Colts. I changed out the springs W/ Wolff springs. And had the forcing cone cut to eleven degrees.

For the pleasure of shooting, I prefer the Colt style SAA over the Rugers. And I own a Ruger SBH 44 three screw made in 1972. The Colt action just feels better.

[LeverBob]

Howdy Pards!

When up in Virginia City I have had many conversations with the boys & girls who do the reenactments. Almost to a person they like the Uberti's. Had a chance to handle a few of them in various gunshops around town. To my hand they feel exactly like a 2nd generation colt. Unparalleled balance, the overall feel... way sensuous at the least...like it grew out of my hand.

Had to sell my Great Grandpa's (Ser.# 259xxx) along with his $ belt & scabbard to pay for a move up here. I couldn't tell the difference. That was a hard sell...

I don't know much about the USFA? guns...

Your choice!

LB

[Griff]

Just to stir the pot a bit Current production, who makes the best SAA? No article or Internet opinions but your opinion, based on real experience.

If you don't own it and shoot it, you don't get a vote

Your vote would be better fortified by a picture of your blaster and a appropriate target!

No bias intended but a hommage of sorts..an original BP Colt to get rolling.

As Joe said, Rugers ain't Single Action Armies. So that leaves certain FAs, the USFAs, and other Colt clones.

No homage... but there's absolutely NO substitute for the original... anything else is a copy.


This 1976 3rd Gen .45 Colt left the factory with a 7-½ barrel and got bobbed to a feisty 4-¾ when I got it to replace one stolen. Whether it's "accurate" or not is a subjective point. I think it's only been pointed at paper twice in some 25+ years. But, it's been thru close to 20K rounds of ammo. Almost all of which were on steel. There were a few ocassional misses... but, hey... let's blame that on the operator!!!

I did use it on two occasions to quality as a "duty" gun with the SO. For those that know, that's a minimum 190 score out of 300 on the PPC course. (Actually scored a 285!) That included 3 timed reloads on the 7 yard, 15 yard and 25 yard lines. Oh yeah, that was using Winchester Silvertip factory ammo, not some near squib CAS load!

With an action job and it's recent cosmetic refurbishment by Oglesby & Oglesby, I think it's pert near perfect!

So what did your SAA do today?

Edited: To correct a typo... gotta proofread better!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Here are my favorite single actions. Both are 2nd Gen Colts. The top one was made in 1973, the bottom one was made in 1968. Somebody else stripped off all the finish on the little one, but it has aged considerably in my hands since then. I shoot nothing but Black Powder through them in CAS. They are my main match pistols and get the most use. There is nothing quite like shooting a real Colt.



Here are my backups that come along to every match. A pair of Stainless 'original model' Vaqueros. Like Nate says, these babies can take the abuse. Good thing too, because each of my Colts broke a spring this year and it was a good thing I had the Rugers along.



Here is my old Blackhawk that I bought brand spanky new in 1975. Came with an auxiliary 45 ACP cylinder. Cost $150 in 1975.



The top gun in this photo is my blued 'original model' Vaquero. Shot it in CAS for a few years before I had the Colts.



Here is a close up of a Cimarron (Uberti) Cattleman. I shot this one for a while before I picked up the 7 1/2" Colt.





Quality wise, nothing can touch a Colt. Not even a USFA. Ubertis look nice on the outside, but the internal finish can be anywhere from just OK to terrible. Uberti runs their CNC machinery at top speed, which results in burrs and rough finishes on the parts. Every Uberti I have ever been inside, including rifles, leaves something to be desired inside. And Uberti uses castings for a lot of parts where Colt only uses forged machinings. Compare a Colt hammer and a Uberti hammer sometime. The difference is night and day.

The Uberti hammer is in the front in this photo, with cast in knurling. The Colt hammer in the rear has had the knurling applied after the part was machined, with a separate knurling tool.



As far as Rugers are concerned, well, Nate is correct. They take a beating and keep on ticking.

[AJMD429]

Oh, and for those who didn't catch it, the OP asked "Who makes the best SAA? Rugers do not qualify as they are not Single Action Armies. Technically that eliminates every thing but Colt, certain USFA, Uberti, and other clone models.

Good point; I sorta ignored the second "A" in "SAA"...

You really didn't think I was gonna stay out of this thread did you?

My only question was if I could get a post up before you did...

[Old Savage]

Griff??? 200,000 rds.???

[Griff]

Griff??? 200,000 rds.???

That shoulda read about 20K. 20 years of competition and some practice... still don't add up to that. Maybe if I include all the rifle rounds also!

[RDB]

"So what did your SAA do today?"

500 rounds of full house 255 gr .45 cal lead loads. Yours?

"Quality wise, nothing can touch a Colt. Not even a USFA."

With all due respect I'd have to differ on that. Only thing that comes close to typical USFA quality in parts and workmanship is the very best of the first gen. Colt guns. Take a few of each, take them apart, put them back together, shoot them a bunch and it all becomes pretty clear.

[Griff]

"So what did your SAA do today?"
500 rounds of full house 255 gr .45 cal lead loads. Yours?
"Quality wise, nothing can touch a Colt. Not even a USFA."
With all due respect I'd have to differ on that. Only thing that comes close to typical USFA quality in parts and workmanship is the very best of the first gen. Colt guns.
Take a few of each, take them apart, put them back together, shoot them a bunch and it all becomes pretty clear.

Actually, all mine did was allow me to fondle it... But, then I didn't get home till after noon, and have to leave in the am.

And from what I've been able to fondle, the most recent Colts have been the equal to anything on the market. That wasn't true for many years... far too many if the truth be told. But, since the late '90s Colt has brought their quality up dramatically. In the late 80's and early '90s it was actually rumored that Colt felt the making of SAAs was only for the collector market... and if they weren't going to be fired... why do the handwork necessary to get the "feel" they were famous for. However, with the exponential growth and interest in cowboy action shooting, Colt recognized that they were sitting there with a split lip and bloody nose while the imports and USFA were thrashing them in what they considered their backyard.

They made a concerted effort to bring their quality up to expectations, and in large part, I hear reports that they have. Their attempt to bring the "Cowboy" out was part of that effort. OK, it missed the mark, mainly I think, for the fact that "Colt" buyers are more traditionally inclined and the transfer bar system wasn't their cup of tea. Both the introduction of USFA, improved imports and some innovative thinking has led Colt to bring their quality up... Their current products are great. I ain't talking that Colt that's been collecting dust in your local dealer's shelf since 1991), but the one produced in 2010.

I don't believe that anything is static in the firearms industry. Anything one manufacturer does affects their competitors. Especially in the nostalgia or traditional market place. It's a relatively small total annual market. Even if half the registered SASS members (89K) were to buy a new handgun in the next twelve months... where would that fall in the total production for police and military demands?

[Old Savage]

Griff, still 20K that is a lot of shootin" and I am surprised a single action would stand up to that. The Colts I have had - all bought in the early 90s - seemed very good and were very accurate but I don't think they were new then. One, and ivory handled 7 1/2" 44 Spl in a pretty wood box would not allow fired shells to eject. I had to open up the loading gate area with round ceramic stick to give a bit more clearance. The just make the metal shiny and takes off the CCH BUT, Superblue brought it right back. I told the dealer I traded it to about it and he could really not tell where this was done.

[cshold]

Q: What kind of single action revolver should I buy to compete in Cowboy Action Shooting?

Bob Munden: If you can afford it, buy a Colt Army. It was the original. It more than holds its value and it is the best. If you can't get a Colt, buy the new Ruger Vaquero, which is the most reliable of any of the single actions because it comes with an all-coil spring system that will never break. Another option is to buy a Colt copy. I can install my all-coil spring system in a Colt or in copies (clones) including Uberti, AWA, Great Western II, EMF, Cimarron, Cabela's, Beretta Stampede, Navy Arms and others. Whatever you buy, I can make it sing.

Q: Why would I need custom action work on my new revolver?

Bob Munden: All new (stock) guns need custom action and trigger work The manufacturer makes guns that work. That's it. Custom work up-grades the stock gun for extended use and enables the user to shoot better and more consistently, with a gun that has a smooth, finely tuned action and a crisp trigger pull. Your valued guns will last much longer with my custom work.

http://bob-munden.com/index.htm

[Hobie]

New gun? USFA or Colt. I have 3 USFAs but haven't found a Colt I like. I have the New Vaquero, it works, shoots well, not the same. None of the clones from Italy feel right to me.

[Sixgun]

The best "Army" SA?

Out of the box---------Ruger Vacaro

With some handwork & a little tuning-----Ruger Vacaro

For a SAA that you stash away for 20 years, go find it, and expect it to work-----------Ruger Vacaro

Self defense------Ruger Vacaro

The SA that will absorb that possible overload-------Ruger Vacaro

Funny thing--I "currently" own no Vacaros but have a mess of FT's, OM's and NM's.

Now, to the gun I hunt with and mostly shoot---The Colt SAA. Its the same reason I hunt with antique leverguns while I have 300 Win. mags and other lazer beam guns that sit in the BACK of the safe.

Winchesters & Colts are what stirs my soul and life is short--you gotta play hard and do what Eric Clapton says in his "Blind Faith" album---------------------DO WHAT YOU LIKE

[JimT]

When it comes to "SAA's" there is only one. Colt. Only Colt made the Single Action Army. (anything else is just a replica ... hehehheheh) The best of the Colt SAA's? In my mind, the 1st Generation guns ... that's just my choice you understand?

Here's my 1st Generation .45 compared with my USFA .44 Special .. both are fine guns. Only the Colt is an "SAA" though.



To see more photos comparing the two please use this link ..

http://www.leverguns.com/usfa/colt_usfa.htm

[JohndeFresno]

The Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible

Reasons:
1 ) It's portable - just the right size at 4.62" (also available at 5.5")
2 ) It fires .45 Colt and .45 ACP (which is much cheaper to fire)
3 ) It has adjustable sights
4 ) It is rugged and can fire heavy hunting loads if needed
5 ) One can afford it!
6 ) Very little "tuning" required out of the box
7 ) It's purdy
8 ) It's mine
This model is SAA, 'cause it fires the RCBS .45 SAA boolits.

[JimT]

#8 (even tho you left the number off) is the trump card ....

hmmm.... the number wasn't there and now it is. It's a miracle. It's still true!

[kimwcook]

When it comes to "SAA's" there is only one. Colt. Only Colt made the Single Action Army. (anything else is just a replica ... hehehheheh) The best of the Colt SAA's? In my mind, the 1st Generation guns ... that's just my choice you understand?

Here's my 1st Generation .45 compared with my USFA .44 Special .. both are fine guns. Only the Colt is an "SAA" though.



To see more photos comparing the two please use this link ..

http://www.leverguns.com/usfa/colt_usfa.htm

I wholly agree

[RIHMFIRE]

for the $$$$$ probably Ruger!
but nothing beats the originals!

[Griff]

OS,

Between 3-4 matches per month, practice at least once weekly for over 10 years, yeah, that number's realistic, maybe a tad shy. Now, fully ¾ f those have been of the BP persuasion. Now terribly jard on the gun.

I have gone thru 2 cylinders, currently on 3rd. #1 suffered a bulge in about 1989; #2 was a 2nd gen .357 cylinder, recut to .45Colt. When Oglesby rebuilt the gun, he found the homemade cyl pin bushing had started to flatten and the cylinder itself had some stress fractures, so the new cylinder is a Colt new production 3rd gen w/ removeable bushing and is stress relieved. He turned my barrel, cut a new front sight slot and put a new sight on it and regulated it to my handloads.

I'd sent it to him to fix an endshake issue. He called and asked about my hand loads and didn't mention anything about the other problems. It came as a complete shock to get it back with the refinish work, his ultimate action job incl adjustable mainspring etc.

Early on in its life as a cas comp gun, I'd had the handspring "Rugerized", and now have all my Colts done. Even my C&Bs!

The above gun feels like all the action pivot points have ball bearings, it's THAT smooth! I'd put up my two Oglesby tuned Colts against ANY other SA for smoothness and crispness of the action. Some VERY good shooters have actually said they think they're too smooth. If I had to describe it, I'd say it doesn't say "C-O-L-T", it whispers it! It doesn't "click" as you cock it, it "snicks."

Hopefully that allays any concern I was exaggeratin', although I was evasive about how much work's been put into it to live that long with that much abuse.

[Sixgun]

I guess its "Show & Tell" time or is it "Ruger time" or................


Pre-WW1 "Colt time"?

[J Miller]

Sixgun,

This is not a joke: I'm envious. You got real Colts and real flattop Rugers with the proper number of screws. I don't have any .

Just teasing. Love those pump guns too.

Joe

PS: What caliber are those mouse traps?

[cshold]

Sixgun,
What is that blue shotgun shell looking thing on the shelf

[Old Savage]

Griff, thanks for the info, it has been too long, you should come on out here again and I could blindfold you and bring you to my secret undisclosed location and we could look at my stuff and go shooting.

[Sixgun]

Sixgun,
What is that blue shotgun shell looking thing on the shelf

20 mm ap head

Joe, The mouse traps (29 of them ) are used all over the gun room and I'm the only one who knows where they are. I keep them in the "hidden areas" and I get instant feedback when friends or family members go snooping around. You know, its kinda like putting marbles in your medicine cabinet when guests come over.

Lets you know who the snoopy rats are.

You ought to see the #6 bear traps I keep "set" in strategic places. ---Sixgun

[J Miller]

Sixgun,

If I had a gun room like yours I'd have something similar set up. I'd be snooping like a cat hunting a mouse if I ever got loose in there. Lots of interesting things in those pics.

Joe

[Kansas Ed]

Well, I sure can't recommend the new Colts...they still have mine for rework....again...

Ed

[gak]

Well, I sure can't recommend the new Colts...they still have mine for rework....again...

Ed

And my "current" (2008/2009) one is just the opposite -- a sweetheart. Maybe that's still a problem--consistency? But, based strictly on my experience with the "4ths," including a friend's several, I'd say "go for it." YMMV and obviously some folks' does.

[Old Savage]

Griff, of course I thought it was a typo, but was also sure the real number was big. Thanks again for all the info. Great story of the use of a gun.