Puma Question

[Im3wheeln]

As I said in my 1st post, I have a few issues I created with my Puma 92. I didn't like the finish on the wood as it looked dry and washed out, sort of like it had been stained, but not sealed or completed finish. I thought I'd got ahead and apply a few coats of tung oil to seal it and bring out the the wood grain. As I pull the stock off the I notice a small crack on the inside of the butt stock so I purchase some good quality wood glue and glued it and slipped it back over the tang (I think that's what the back end of the gun is called?) so it'd dry in position. No, I didn't glue on the gun upside down or anything, but after refinishing the stock, as I was bolting back together, I heard it crack again. Although I haven't pulled it apart (see issue 2 for why I'm afraid to pull it apart) to verified that it actually did crack again were it was glued, I would like to know if this is common and how is it normally fixed?

Now for the really bad issue, again, as I was putting it back together I had a real hard time attaching the barrel band. the band fits fine, but I couldn't for the life of me get the screw started. I tried and tried, but all I did is make matters worse. Now I've totally boogered up the screw slot and suspect I've stripped out the 1st few threads on the inside of the barrel band itself. Is there a way to fix this? I think this gun has been out of production for a few years, are part available? Would someone like Nate Jones be able to repair or replace these parts?

I guess I learning the hard way that I'm not much of a gunsmith..........yet!

[Tycer]

First things first: If you do not have a set of Hollow Ground screwdrivers that exactly fit the screw heads, purchase or make some.

Yes, Nate can fix you right up. Since you say you are not yet a gunsmith, send that girl to Nate pronto and let him do the slicking up that he does so well. Have him put a plug in that ugly lawyer-safety too.

Don't worry about the screw. He'll get you a new one and straighten out the threads on the barrel band also. You might want to ask him about sight options while he has it.

[gamekeeper]

Refitting barrel band screws is sometimes better than a game of patience!
Tycer sure is right about getting the correct screwdrivers.

I'd be more concerned about the stock cracking, I would get a stock maker to look it over.

[Tycer]

I forgot about the stock:

Sounds like the stock is not inletted properly. Easy fix. The cutouts for the tang and mainsprings need to be opened up some. I dust graphite on the metal parts to see where they contact the wood and carefully remove a little wood at a time until the fit is smooth and not binding anywhere.

You can drill the length of the crack, fill the hole with an epoxy or poly glue and then a dowel the size of your drill be tapped into the hole to inject the glue into the crack. Compress the stock along the crack and let the glue dry. Do this before fitting the stock to the tang. This might also be in Nate's area of expertise.

[mikld]

My Puma came with the barrel band screw stripped. Durng an early pre-shooting cleaning I found the screw wouldn't back out, and after investigation, detirmined it's stripped (at least it's not screwed in, could be some kind of locking pin for all I know). When time allows I'll drill and tap for a larger screw, and/or check for a steel replacement bbl band.

[AJMD429]

My Puma came with the barrel band screw stripped. Durng an early pre-shooting cleaning I found the screw wouldn't back out, and after investigation, detirmined it's stripped (at least it's not screwed in, could be some kind of locking pin for all I know). When time allows I'll drill and tap for a larger screw, and/or check for a steel replacement bbl band.

I had that on a Puma 'magazine-cap' screw, and on a Marlin one as well.

Lately, I had a Marlin 'rear barrel band' screw just BREAK, also from the torque applied when the screw has to almost cam-into-place the forend, which unfortunately still needs glass-bedded to not slop around at the rear.

[Im3wheeln]

Yes, I'm afraid I'm guilty of trying to use standard screw drivers, which probably didn't help. I'll have to see if I can pick up a decent set next time I purchase more reloading supplies.

I'll have to email Nate (Stevesguns.com right?) to see what he'll charge fix the barrel band and the suggested mods. Like everyone else, money's tight so I'll have to pick and choose what will give the most bang for my buck. Then again, I'm pretty gun shy (no pun intended) to attempt these mods on my own so I just may have to pull out the plastic card to get it done right.

On the stock, it does sound like the fit may be a bit too tight on the tang. I'll have to take it apart to see if it split again. After I get a set of Hollow Ground screwdrivers of course. May I'll ask Nate/Steve on this also, don't know if I want to mess up the stocks too????

mikld wrote:
My Puma came with the barrel band screw stripped. Durng an early pre-shooting cleaning I found the screw wouldn't back out, and after investigation, detirmined it's stripped (at least it's not screwed in, could be some kind of locking pin for all I know). When time allows I'll drill and tap for a larger screw, and/or check for a steel replacement bbl band.

mikld, not sure what caliber Puma (or even if it matters) you have, but on my .480 they've already had to clearance the barrel to the factory screw. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable removing more metal to install a larger screw. Not saying it can't be don't, only that I don't know so it'd make me uncomfortable.

What the heck was I typing here? I hope you all understood what I was trying to say.

[Griff]

As on Winnies, the Rossi should have the screw head on the left side of the gun for both barrel bands. Visually, I've never found a reason for this... but there must be as they just seem to go back together so much easier when I reassemble mine that way. (Maybe I'm just holding my tongue in the right spot when the barrel band is installed in that fashion... but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!)

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Oh the joys of making a rifle right and proper !

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Yes, I'm afraid I'm guilty of trying to use standard screw drivers, which probably didn't help. I'll have to see if I can pick up a decent set next time I purchase more reloading supplies.

I'll have to email Nate (Stevesguns.com right?) to see what he'll charge fix the barrel band and the suggested mods. Like everyone else, money's tight so I'll have to pick and choose what will give the most bang for my buck. Then again, I'm pretty gun shy (no pun intended) to attempt these mods on my own so I just may have to pull out the plastic card to get it done right.

On the stock, it does sound like the fit may be a bit too tight on the tang. I'll have to take it apart to see if it split again. After I get a set of Hollow Ground screwdrivers of course. May I'll ask Nate/Steve on this also, don't know if I want to mess up the stocks too????

mikld wrote:
My Puma came with the barrel band screw stripped. Durng an early pre-shooting cleaning I found the screw wouldn't back out, and after investigation, detirmined it's stripped (at least it's not screwed in, could be some kind of locking pin for all I know). When time allows I'll drill and tap for a larger screw, and/or check for a steel replacement bbl band.

mikld, not sure what caliber Puma (or even if it matters) you have, but on my .480 they've already had to clearance the barrel to the factory screw. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable removing more metal to install a larger screw. Not saying it can't be don't, only that I don't know so it'd make me uncomfortable.

Eric

Hi Eric,
Welcome to the fire. Getting that band screw back in can be a real pain. The first impulse is to clearance the insides but that can lead to a loose forend. As suggested you need the hollow ground screw-driver tips to start. Next, like Griff said make sure the screw goes in from the left side. If it's hard going in you might want to use a nylon drift and tap the band back a bit more. the Tung oil you added probably has it setting out some. You can do the same with the wood, too. If it's still hard to start try clamping the band in a padded vise just enough so the screw is still available. Now you can put so pressure on it as you turn it. That usually does the trick.
Now, to your stock cracks. The stock was inlet-ted to the gun correctly when it left Rossi. But, Rossi is notorious for using green wood and now that it has dried more it's cracking. You said it is the 480 version. That's one of those thumper so most likely the stock is going to continue to crack just from the recoil. This is because Rossi uses some sort of Brazilian Mystery wood that's not really hard enough to take the recoil. Plus, it's not fitted well into the tangs and receiver socket. Ideally a good straight grain Walnut set of stock well fitted would cure this problem $$$$$$! The next best thing to do is glass bed the Rossi wood. In your case it has a crack already so what I would do is deepen the inletting over the crack. Then I would use some fine fiberglass matte (available for fly model airplane hobby shops) cut to fit then I would use CA glue (Superglue, But buy the CA glue from the hobby shop too. Those guys know more about gluing wood than anyone). Flood the enlet and crack over the glass matte. Use surgical tubing to clamp it close. Now you have added some reinforcement. Once that sets up use lumber crayon on the metal then re-install the stocks. the crayon will transfer to the wood and show you where it need some wood removed. Once you get it to this point just follow the instructions for glass bedding material you plan to use.

BTW, The bands on Rossi's are either blue steel or stainless steel. The Bands for the 480 and 454 are different than the standard cals too.

[Im3wheeln]

Griff, Nate, the screw is indeed going in from the left side. I seem to be able to line it up with the threaded hole ok, but it doesn't seem to want to screw in. I'm going give the vice trick a try towards the weekend, when I have more time to figure out how to pad the vice jaws enough to prevent damage.

Nate, thank you for the info on repairing the stocks. I'm pretty sure I won't have any issues repairing the crack as you described, it sounds simple enough anyway. BUT, I have no idea what "glass bedding" is or how it's done. Is this something that can be explained over the Inet? Is it something that someone with little talent can do without making a mess of things? If I do glass bed the thing will it hold or would I be better off just biting the bullet and having new, quality, stocks fitted?

I know this isn't the most expensive gun on the market, but they aren't making these in Ruger .480 anymore and I'd like it keep looking halfway descent and functional.

PS Checked out Nate's website. Once I save my pennies (or sooner if I get inpatient) I'll be looking for a trigger job, safety removal, new sights, etc.

[Tycer]

. BUT, I have no idea what "glass bedding" is or how it's done. Is this something that can be explained over the Inet? Is it something that someone with little talent can do without making a mess of things? If I do glass bed the thing will it hold

It will hold.

Click on the GunTech button to find instructions.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=3785 ... _4_oz__Kit

[Im3wheeln]

I took the butt stock off this weekend and didn't see the giant crack I was expecting, good new for me. I'm still going to reinforce the area with glass mat as Nate suggested, however, I still don't understand how I would use the bedding material? From the instructions in the link provide by Tycer (thank you btw) in seems like it's used on the forend under the barrel, I guess to evenly support it. I've not taken the forend off and don't plan to, especially now. Did I miss something on the instructions dealing with the butt stock reenforcement?

Ok, now for the bad news. Try as I might, I still can't get the barrel band screw in. I even tried squeezing the lower end of the band in a small vice and still nothing. I don't know if I've screwed up the threads in the inside of the band or if the band has just expanded and the screw doesn't reach anymore, either way I think I'm gong to have to ask for help on this one. Nate, you'll probably be seeing an email from me with the next few days.

Eric

[AJMD429]

I hate to admit it, but I must have spent two hours fussing (that's the word I'll use here, anyway) with the barrel-band screw on my .45 Colt Rossi this weekend. I think maybe they put the wood on dry and the stain swells it, or something (I know that probably isn't the case, but the amount of banging and tapping and - eventually - filing of the wood shoulder of the forend, then the band I realized was also 'expanded' width-wise by the evidently-swollen forend, and I had to re-shape that a bit, because as it was, the length of the poorly-threaded screw was marginal to engage the poorly-threaded band).

Grrrrr.......

Anyway, I don't have any great 'solutions' (although NKJ's "vice" idea helped quite a bit), but just wanted to let you know - you're NOT alone...!

[Griff]

I don't know if it was mentioned... but FWIW, try taking the band off the gun and threading the screw. If it don't work here, it won't work on the gun. And, you'll be able to "SEE" the problem and should be able to determine what steps are needed to correct the problem.

When you try it out on the gun, watch thru the threaded side of the band; you should be able to see if the screw is lining up properly with the band. If it's not... then at least you know which way the wood is pushing the screw off line. Oh yeah, good light helps here.

[Tycer]

On the glass bedding:

You will not be able to inlet the buttstock in such a way that the upper and lower tangs fit 100% surface to surface. The glass bedding mates the metal to the wood 100%.

Like Nate said, your gun is a thumper and all the energy is transferred from the barrel through the receiver to those teeny little tangs. From there, the energy is transferred to the buttstock only where the wood touches the tangs. If the tangs touch the wood only in a spot the size of a dime, well that's a lot of pounds per square inch trying to poke a hole in the stock. If you have 100% mating between the tangs and the wood, that energy is spread over a relatively large area.

I'm not a scientist, but it would seem to me that if the tangs moved even the slightest bit, the forces on the stock would have more shock value as opposed to a push, but that's just uneducamated theory.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

On the glass bedding:

You will not be able to inlet the buttstock in such a way that the upper and lower tangs fit 100% surface to surface. The glass bedding mates the metal to the wood 100%.

Like Nate said, your gun is a thumper and all the energy is transferred from the barrel through the receiver to those teeny little tangs. From there, the energy is transferred to the buttstock only where the wood touches the tangs. If the tangs touch the wood only in a spot the size of a dime, well that's a lot of pounds per square inch trying to poke a hole in the stock. If you have 100% mating between the tangs and the wood, that energy is spread over a relatively large area.

I'm not a scientist, but it would seem to me that if the tangs moved even the slightest bit, the forces on the stock would have more shock value as opposed to a push, but that's just uneducamated theory.

I think that sums it up well. It also discribes bolt to chamber headspace problems, too. In both places if it's a poor fit something is going to get beat up.

[Im3wheeln]

AJMD429, sorry you had to share in my pain. Glad you were able to work it out. Me, I'm not comfortable with filing and sanding on my new pop gun. I feel I've done enough as it is. Not that it's that bad, I just had hopes of keeping this one in decent condition.

Griff, I did try taking the band off the gun, but it doesn't slip over the the smaller barrel band at the muzzle end. Ok, I may have been able to force it over the smaller band, but I didn't want to scratch the bluing. I know I'm probably being to picky here, but other that the seemingly unfinished stock the fit and finish on this gun was beautifully done. I really hate the thought of screwing it up.

Tycer, thank your for the explanation. It makes total sense to me now.

Nate, thank you for your email reply. I did respond back, hope you understand my position.

Thanks again all
Eric

[gak]

Some disturbing issues here. Just curious. Is this a recent (or at least LSI/Puma (mid 90s-2008) trend I've been hearing? I've got a gaggle of early (pre mystery stain 80s-ish Interarms) 92s as well as a few pre-safety EMFs (ca 2004-2006) with nary a problem one--all .44s and .357s. As soon as budget allows, I'm planning on at least one of the above--probably my plainest Interarms--getting a nice set of walnuts from the likes of Precision Gunstocks. But that's just being persnickety--wanting to have one "just so" like an original, but not a one of them is that bad cosmetically even. Otherwise, the Interarms wood has been fine. I avoided the late Interarms (early 90s'ish?) black mystery stain and "indifferent" wood LSI/Safety eras. .

Btw, I can very much relate to the OP wanting to improve appearance of the Rossi 92. It's the other issues encountered--here and by others--that have me wondering, did I just luck out on my ten or so over the years? That said, there are at least a few I'd like to send to NKJ to do his magic on "just because"--and I'd love to "proper" walnut every last one of them.