Tula Primers

[Griff]

Was wandering around this afternoon and came across these: Tula Large Pistol Primers.

Never heard of them before, anyone have any info?

[Sixgun]

Griff,
I did a search and found they are made in Tula, Oklahoma. Sixgun

[TedH]

That's a pretty good price if they're decent primers.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Looks like Tula Arsenal ... Russian I believe. Seems like more players are entering the primer market as the old standbys were clearly unable to fill the bill last year.

[J Miller]

Griff, I'll try 'em if you'll bring me some . Ain't nobody around here got any.

The only non-domestic primers I've seen locally is Magtech.

Joe

[airedaleman]

Buy American?

[J Miller]

Buy American?

Love to. But at the escalating prices of American products I gotta save money where ever I can. Prices keep going up, but our income is going down.
For general purpose ammo, I'm not afraid to try some foreign primers.
After all I've used RWS Sinoxid (sp) primers for decades.

Joe

[awp101]

Probably Wolf (or the same consortium) and/or made in the same factory.

[Tycer]

Probably Wolf (or the same consortium) and/or made in the same factory.

That's my understanding. They are made by Murom(sp?) and Murom, Wolf and Tulammo are all the same primers.

[airedaleman]

Buy American?

Love to. But at the escalating prices of American products I gotta save money where ever I can.

Joe

Yeah, what's a few more jobs gone. Just like the light bulb factory closing in Winchester.

[J Miller]

Buy American?

Love to. But at the escalating prices of American products I gotta save money where ever I can.

Joe

Yeah, what's a few more jobs gone. Just like the light bulb factory closing in Winchester.

OK then, I'll restrict myself to buying American primers and end up shooting half as much or even not shooting. Would that be preferable to you?
airedaleman, the whole point is the domestic manufacturers are inundated with military and commercial ammo orders and cannot keep up with the demand for hand loading. Somebodies got to fill in the gap. Since the domestic companies wont or cant, then the foreign companies will and are.

Joe

[Old Time Hunter]

Buy American?

Love to. But at the escalating prices of American products I gotta save money where ever I can.

Joe

Yeah, what's a few more jobs gone. Just like the light bulb factory closing in Winchester.

OK then, I'll restrict myself to buying American primers and end up shooting half as much or even not shooting. Would that be preferable to you?
airedaleman, the whole point is the domestic manufacturers are inundated with military and commercial ammo orders and cannot keep up with the demand for hand loading. Somebodies got to fill in the gap. Since the domestic companies wont or cant, then the foreign companies will and are.

Joe

Bad attitude..... Kind of sad that our own domestic companies do not want us for customers isn't it?

[J Miller]

Bad attitude..... Kind of sad that our own domestic companies do not want us for customers isn't it?

Yes it is sad that our domestic companies don't seem to want us as customers. I wonder though if it's not that, but the economy as a whole? They went into full overtime production just after the last election when everybody went berserk buying and hoarding primers and components. Are they really ignoring the hand loaders, or are they just unwilling to expand their production capabilities knowing that this buying binge will settle down and then they'll be stuck with equipment and employees they don't need? Just some thoughts.

I'd much rather buy American and for the most part I have. Throughout this entire primer shortage I've only bought one pack of a 1000 Magtech and a couple ancient boxes of RWS primers. Other than that all my primers have been U.S. made.

Joe

[Griff]

Buy American?

Love to. But at the escalating prices of American products I gotta save money where ever I can.
Joe

Yeah, what's a few more jobs gone. Just like the light bulb factory closing in Winchester.

My BIL is friends with the guy that started Wolf Ammo. He's a good guy according to my BIL, who I trust.

You're both right. But, that loyalty HAS to go both ways. Primers are back in stock, & I'd buy from my local guy, but when he charges FAR more than Midway or Graff AND ties sales of primers to like quantities of bullets... he loses me as a customer. Although a caster, there's still a coupla bullets I buy 500 of, and I still do smokeless... so to tell me in order to purchase 5K primers I gotta buy 5K of his bullets (either his cast or jacketed)... sayornaya (which, I think, is Japanese for "sorry I knew ya!")

[Sixgun]

Here's what I don't understand---Its not like the price difference is 17 million dollars between foreign junk and American made primers.

Around here, Federal & Remington sell for $33 a thou. and at gunshows the foreign junk sells for $29 a thou. Thats a whopping savings of a half cent per primer.

While the bullet and powder is important, none of its going to work without the first ingredient.

Being "thrifty" is a smart personal characteristic, being cheap is not.------------Sixgun

[Griff]

Bad attitude..... Kind of sad that our own domestic companies do not want us for customers isn't it?

Yes it is sad that our domestic companies don't seem to want us as customers. I wonder though if it's not that, but the economy as a whole? They went into full overtime production just after the last election when everybody went berserk buying and hoarding primers and components. Are they really ignoring the hand loaders, or are they just unwilling to expand their production capabilities knowing that this buying binge will settle down and then they'll be stuck with equipment and employees they don't need? Just some thoughts.
I'd much rather buy American and for the most part I have. Throughout this entire primer shortage I've only bought one pack of a 1000 Magtech and a couple ancient boxes of RWS primers. Other than that all my primers have been U.S. made.
Joe

I really didn't wanna hijack my own thread, but... Hobie, if you'll move this to "Politics", I'll make that an easy call for you, and the rest of ya can have fun spectulatin'!

Follow along here, for this might seem convoluted, but there is a common thread; I recently heard a rumor that the head of the Missouri DOT (Dept of Transportation), told the heads of all of Missouri's trucking firms that they WOULD have electronic driver's logs installed in ALL of their trucks by end of 2011 or he would be auditing their firms every 90 days. Without legislative authority this amounts to "abuse of office", a crime. Given Obama's high-handed, and I feel illegal, handling of GM, it would not surprise to consider that a high-ranking, anti-gunner in one of the regulatory agencies did something similar to our domestic ammo companies if they still wanted Federal business.

Our elected opfficials are still quasi-answerable to the voters, but... those bureaucrats in regulatory agencies are only answerable to the administration and Congress.

Our government (which includes all those agencies), has simply ballooned out of porportion and control. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, it's time for "...a little revolution", and take back our government from special interest groups and petty, dictatorial bureaucrats.

[COSteve]

The fact is that today, it's a global economy. Companies are competing world wide. If American primer manufacturers think that they are any different, they're delusional. Wolf and Tula will help drive down the cost and therefore the price of American goods. If the American suppliers can't or won't stay competitive, they will fade away. That's a fact of life and a fact of our economic system.

[Griff]

The fact is that today, it's a global economy. Companies are competing world wide. If American primer manufacturers think that they are any different, they're delusional. Wolf and Tula will help drive down the cost and therefore the price of American goods. If the American suppliers can't or won't stay competitive, they will fade away. That's a fact of life and a fact of our economic system.

You're correct in large part Steve, yet....

Many, many years ago the Congress passed legislation called the "Buy American Act". It dictated to federal agencies that unless the product needed wadsn't available or of substandard quality from an American firm that they WOULD buy the American product. On the surface this appears to a good thing... protecting domestic companies from unfair practices and all. But... under the surface it has a negative impact. It means the government controls their major customer, therefore, them! The reloader ain't but a thimble in comparison to the Mississippi of ammo the gov't buys in it's various forms.

[Old Time Hunter]

The fact is that today, it's a global economy. Companies are competing world wide. If American primer manufacturers think that they are any different, they're delusional. Wolf and Tula will help drive down the cost and therefore the price of American goods. If the American suppliers can't or won't stay competitive, they will fade away. That's a fact of life and a fact of our economic system.

Yes it is Steve, at the expense, almost exclusively, of the majority of citizens of the United States. Germany seems to be a new roll model as to how to succeed in the "global" economy, since intitiating, what appear to be self centered pro Germany business regulations, they have increased the percentage of the middle class, reduced unemployment to 5.3%, and eliminated all imports of products that are not produced by workers that do not meet German workers safety, environmental, and employment standards (not wages). Initially most countries in the WTO screamed "foul", especially the USA, China, Russia, and a consortum of third world countries. Germany said "too bad", ya'll agreed to the standards for us, we'll hold 'em for you now. Germany did this right at the start of the current recession, January of '07. Initially Germany was hit with a quicker recession because consumer domestic consumption almost immediately took effect, but after German consumers realized that they had domestic manufacturers that made similar products, made to their societal standard, albeit slightly higher priced...their market went back up. Part of the regs are called the German Green 7 laws that implement environmental manufacturing standards, China dissed them at first, but now three years into the USA recession, they(China) specifically had their manufacturers for the German market meet those recquirements. In Germany, the cost of similar products between Chinese manufacturing and domestic German manufacturing has fallen to less than 5% including logistic costs. SO, we are not really a "global" fair trade economy, but a unfair "global" economy because we do not want fair for our neighbors and fellow citizens, we want cheap...until we all become slaves of the vaunted top 1%.

[J Miller]

Sixgun,

Not all foreign products are junk. Some are actually superior to what our domestic manufacturers make.

Around here there is only two or maybe three stores that sell primers. One charges rip off gouging prices and I will not buy from him.
The other sells every brand of standard primer for $33.95 per 1,000.
I usually buy Winchester, but occasionally buy other brands if the data I'm using calls for them.
However, if he is out of domestic brands I will not hesitate to buy foreign. When I need primers -- I need primers.

That's just the way it is.

Joe

[Sixgun]

The only thing I know are classic & antique guns. I trust smarter and more "worldly" people to make the decisions that are in the best interests of myself and my fellow Americans.

Common sense tells me that when I buy something that has a label "Made in China", Russia, Italy, whatever...that I am sending my money to a bunch of corporations or people who are not Americans and the longer this goes on, the less money will be in this country. Its kinda like taking a hundred dollars a week out of a savings account that has ten g's in it. In 100 weeks, your gonna be broke.

Besides, what American wants a gun made by people who used our soldiers for live bayonet practice in WW2? Or who lopped their heads off for fun? Or who used 'em for germ experimentation? Or who killed millions in concentration camps or starved millions more by cutting off their food supply or who fought us as pals of Hitler and when they were gettin' their butts whipped, they became our friends. Or how about the waves of soldiers that killed our boys in Korea????? read--Japan, Germany, Russia, and Italy, China

Let 'em all drown in their misery. Sure it all happened a long time ago but whats next, being pals with those head loppers from the Middle East? Who knows, someone might even want to build a mosque at the site where 3,000 Americans were murdered, including my good friend Lieut. Peter Martin

I say use 'em for what they got (oil--anything else?) and no more.

We don't need them--they ALL need us--let the money flow this way. Just think, An 1886 Winchester and a single action Colt in every American pot.

Small thinking on my part? too bad We win-they lose.

This country is livin' on the edge.

In order to get this country back to the early 60's, when the USA had 2/3rds of the world's wealth, there's little I can do except buy American. Wouldn't that be neat if this "Buy American" strategy turned into a catchy thing?--------------Sixgun

[olyinaz]

SO, we are not really a "global" fair trade economy, but a unfair "global" economy because we do not want fair for our neighbors and fellow citizens, we want cheap...

BINGO.

Oly

[airedaleman]

Here's what I don't understand---Its not like the price difference is 17 million dollars between foreign junk and American made primers.

Around here, Federal & Remington sell for $33 a thou. and at gunshows the foreign junk sells for $29 a thou. Thats a whopping savings of a half cent per primer.

While the bullet and powder is important, none of its going to work without the first ingredient.

Being "thrifty" is a smart personal characteristic, being cheap is not.------------Sixgun

Hear, hear! I doubt if anyone here shoots enough to make the purchase of primers an economic hardship. Specious arguments about American manufacturers holding back on production to grossly inflate prices make no sense; if the manufacturers were to do so, they would in fact force the consumer to look elsewhere, and I'm pretty sure that they all would like to avoid that. Military demands and the rising costs of material I suspect played the greatest role in the increase that everyone is whining about.
I'm retired, and I don't have the luxury of details and overtime shifts - with - attendant big paychecks - anymore, so I've adjusted. I buy what I NEED; I'm not stockpiling for Armaggedon, and I'll be darned if I'll buy primers - of all things - made in a country goverened by men that still would like to see America brought down.

[rimrock]

What if the manufacturers in the American gun industry are being smarter than other American businesses? What if the American gun industry figured out annual increases in sales for normal years when politics aren't driving irrational consumption? I think there have been 3 primer shortages over the last 20 yrs. The American gun manufacturers don't want to make capital investments for the short term needs of 1-3 yrs, then sit on excess capacity for 15-20 years. Another part in the pricing thing is that China bought up all the scrap metal to use for barter if paper money hit the skids, so American gun manufacturers have to use more virgin material and less recycled stuff. So, your component prices had to go up to pay the overhead.

rimrock

[crystal river charli]

Primers, Brass, Bullets, Firearms.
If I can't by American, I am no longer buying it.
It p___es me off that I have to use a laptop
that is made G_d knows where. And I drive a
Ford Fusion that is made in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico.

Charlie

[Chuck 100 yd]

A lively discussion indeed and nobody calling the others out!!
Mostly ALL good valid points from all.

I am proud of you guys!!

[stretch]

Being "thrifty" is a smart personal characteristic, being cheap is not.------------Sixgun

Exactly.

Always keep in mind that one gets what one pays for - intended or not. If everything that
we used in this country was actually made in this country, we'd all have our choice of jobs
and all the overtime we could handle. Trying to save half-a-cent per primer by buying
foreign over domestic is a false economy. You've saved what -5 bucks per thousand rounds of
ammunition loaded? Your neighbors need all the help they can get to keep their jobs - especially
in the current economy, and to me that's worth $5 per thousand rounds.

That said, I'd use them if I was out and nothing else was available. The Tula arsenal has a long,
long, tradition in Russia. I've shot thousands of WOLF 9X18 cartridges without any failures. All
went bang.

-Stretch

[SteveR]

I see Tula sells a berdan primer for 7.62x39, would be nice to reload some of the Swiss 7.5x55 brass I have laying around. I need to look around more, I saw Powder Valley had them, maybe somebody else has them in stock.

Plus, I see cases of berdan primed brass cased 7.62x39 Priv Partizan going for sale under 225.00 for 1250 rounds. I would have cases for life to reload with the berdan primers.

Steve

[Cliff]

Does anyone remember the beginning of CCI on the markets. Primers, 22 ammo were climbing in price back then. Remington, Federal and Winchester were finicky on selling reloading components for private use. CCI came along and started up their business. Result was to push the big three ammo companies back on their prices. So I don't know what the CCI brought out first, primers or rimfire ammo, but it was a hit. Interesting how competition runs on some stuff. ATB

[rogn]

Prices have become more disparate than $5 a thousand, in fact the difference between on line sources can be oftn 15 to 20 $ per K. But the real cause of these upstarts is the early stimulus package of fear due to perceived loss of rights and freedoms due to our most recent electorate. We were stimulated and emptied our shelves. In the case of "buy American" this is thwarted by the simple fact that we dont make anything anymore. If you want to feel like a fool. run around in most stores and try to find something NOT made in china. Even sardines! Perhaps our former excellent standard of living has made it possible for us to pay a goodly portion off our populace not to be productive, while at the same time alien workers flood our labor markets all to willing to work for less than poverty level. Make ya scratch yer head.

[Hawkeye2]

[quote="Cliff"]Does anyone remember the beginning of CCI on the markets.

That would have been some time ago! I was using CCI primers when I began reloading in the mid 60's and they had been in business for about 15 years then.