Elk Hunting Cartridge Preference

[86er]

I'm going elk hunting, and I'm taking CRS with me! I've guided elk hunts in several states many times. I've also shot elk here and there more as a matter of opportunity than specifically working to get one. This is different. I have a unique opportunity to hunt with a rifle during September when it is bugling season. Furthermore, the tags we have are good from Sept 3rd until Jan 10th. Even with some no-frills accomodations it is expensive. Depending on how long it actually takes, it is significant time away from family and work. Because of the time and money committment I will not be able to repeat a hunt like this again for quite a while and I will have to forego many trips for the rest of this year and next. So this isn't a run out and elk hunt plan, it is an investment. CRS has been elk hunting but has not taken a bull. This is very important to hiim as well because he is taking time from a newly growing business and his grandsons return to the school year that requires Charles' guidance at times. So......

We want to try the first two or three days from a treestand over wallows and also try calling in dark timber. I prefer bow hunting anyway, so this is where I'll try it a few times. After that, under the same circumstances I will use my 1886 in 45-70 with 405 gr Kodiak's @ 2100 fps. CRS will be using his 1895 in 405 Win. with 300 gr Northforks @ 2000 fps+. I don't have reservations about those choices.

After the first few days of trying close range encounters we will switch to different tactics and have chances to shoot far. My personal limit is 400 yards under ideal conditions. I have my trusty old 7mm Rem Mag shooting 160 gr Nosler Accubonds @ 2900 fps. I know the trajectory like the back of my hand, having taking over 400 big game animals with that rifle. It was my only centerfire rifle for 25 years. The only rifle that is "bigger" and is set up to shoot over distance is my 375 H&H. Right now it shoots 260 gr Accubonds @ 2600 fps.

Charles has a 338 Win Mag with 225 gr Nosler Partions. He has it well covered in my opinion.

Yeah, yeah I know the guys that use a 243 Win and there is a legend of an elephant being killed with a 22 rimfire too. Sure, you can kill elk with a lot of stuff. I'm sure someone wants to tell me about shot placement too. Hit properly with any centerfire at appropriate range the elk will die .... eventually. Here's what I don't want - it is late and I shoot. There is sparse blood trail and the darkness forbids pursuing further now. A sleepless and stressful night follows. The morning is anxious and tense. If we have to leave the next day this intensifies greatly.

I already have a plan, but I am interested in others perspectives on choosing a caliber for this hunt. I don't mind hearing the pros and cons of my selection as well as hearing what caliber I didn't mention that you recommend and why. I am interested in the logic behind your selection and why it fits within your comfort level and I am interested in real life experiences on elk and the results. Of all of the elk I have seen shot very few were impressed by bullets, mostly taking a minute to succumb or making a long run. Some fell over stone dead instantly but that was the minority.

[O.S.O.K.]

Can't argue with your selections - I just wish I were going with you

If I were, I'd use my 95 in 405 Win for that first part (I'd work up some loads using 300 grain TSX's) and then I'd use my Ruger MkII AW .338 Win Mag with 225 grain TSX for the second part. So I guess I'm with CRS on the guns.

I'm not sure about my bow - I have a very nice Hoyt bow but it's set-up for 55 pounds... fine for WT but I don't know about elk... 100 grain muzzy broadheads with carbon shafts is what I "load" for that. This was what the pro that sold me the bow and kit recommended - said he'd never used a heavier draw and has killed hundereds of deer with his.

[Old Savage]

Sounds to me like all the questions here are answered and your experience better prepares you for this than anyone I can think of. If it were me I would take either a 30-06 or a 270 and a 45-70 because they are what I have that I think would fill the bill, maybe a 280.

[cshold]

If it were me in your shoes,
I’d be begging my dear Brother-in-law to let me use his
new Winchester Model 70 in the .270 WSM. that’s
currently in my possession

[Markbo]

I have only been Elk hunting a few times, but I do remember that optics were a huge consideration - the shot could be at 20 yards in brush so dense you only caught a glimpse of hair or it could be 300 yards+ across a park (meadow). When choosing a caliber, it was easy for me. What caliber/gun did I have that could hit 'em close and hard and shoot accurately waaaaay out there if necessary.

Savage 110 in .30-06 was my choice. Nowadays I'd probably take my .300WSM though. Shoots a little heavier bullet a little faster. With your experience I can't see why you would look beyond your trusty 7mm.

[2X22]

Going by your set criteria, it sounds as if you better use your .375 H&H.

I've taken our big Roosevelt elk around here with calibers such as the 358JDJ and the .444 out of T/C pistols. Heck, one year I even took 3 elk in 3 states with a 25-06 and one a couple years back with a 38-55 using cast @ 1700fps. But I've also taken a dozen and a half more with the 'lowly' .44 mag from both rifle and pistol (mostly pistols) and a heavy cast bullet.

My situation is different than most however, I live in a heavily populated elk region. My wife can't even keep roses outside the kitchen window as the elk will keep them browsed down and I have a high fence around my garden We've had them come ONTO our front porch far enough to eat her potted plants

A long shot where I hunt is 125 yards (I rarely hunt the clear cuts) a far cry from the 400 yard shot you mention. Where I can see legal bulls to shoot within my range almost every day, your H&H will be your best choice.

2x22

[BigSky56]

You guys enjoy your elk hunt whether you get one or not and good luck ,being in the mountains when elk are bugling and watching herd bulls corral their cows is good for the soul. danny

[Streetstar]

You guys enjoy your elk hunt whether you get one or not and good luck ,being in the mountains when elk are bugling and watching herd bulls corral their cows is good for the soul. danny

x2.


My pick is pretty boring and predictable --- .300 Weatherby Magnum. Likely doesn't have too much on the '06 in terms of real world performance inside 250 yards with 165-180 gr pills, but it is comfortable with 200 grain bullets. , at 250 to 350 yards, i really dont have to worry about bullet drop at all (anything past 350 yards i'll have to pass on the shot--- too far me, no matter the rifle)

[Sixgun]

I think it depends on how memorable and challenging you want the hunt to be. As you know, nothing could be as challenging as archery. Its a joke to get one with Mr. Magnum.

Back in '03, I could have had the herd bull, a massive 6 X 6, but my range finder said 412 yards and I was holding an 1886 in 33 WCF. I said to myself, "Have a good day Mr. Elk". I had/have no regrets about my choice of firearms.

I nailed a 3 X 4 a couple of hours later and my son took one a few years later with an '86 in 45-70 with a 375 grain cast at 1700.

I used these two guns, a '95 in 35 WCF and a Model 71 in other years, but did not get the chance to connect with the latter two.

If I needed the meat to survive, the Sako in 300 Win. Mag would be with me, but in the meantime the great "sectional density" cartridges of 2000-2400 fps will do me fine.

Good luck on your hunt! ---------Sixgun

[Hobie]

When/if I finally get to elk hunt my first gun will be my Browning 1886 .45-70 and the cartridges will be loaded with 405 gr. bullets at 1800 fps.

[Marlin32]

Never been elk hunting, but am going moose hunting first time next fall. I bought the Marlin 338 Express. Not sold on the Hornady bullet yet, will find something better before fall I am sure.

If you are in close I think you are covered, big time. If shooting any distance, my last choice for anything would be the 7mm. I just have no use for it. But if you know your gun that well and can put the 160gr bullet where you need to with confidence then you are probably good. Now, I was told by a lot of people on this forum, the same thing about using my 308 on the moose. I went with the 338ME, JUST in case I had encountered a little longer shot than ideal for 308.

I think the same for your 7mm. What if, hits you on last day of hunt and your only good shot on an Elk is at 325 yards. I would hardly call that ideal conditions for 7mm.

You shoot large calibers all the time and obviously not bothered by them. I would go with something a bit bigger JUST in case. Maybe a 300 win mag, 325 Win (never shot one)
or the Marlin 338ME. Or the 338 win mag, (although a bit much for me for sure)

Just my two cents and have never hunted an elk, but if in your shoes, I would want to cover my bases on the chance you may have a longer shot than expecting, and the 7mm would not be my first choice. I would want a bigger bullet.

[Marc]

I would have no qualms whatsoever about using a 7 mag on a 325 yard shot. I have only killed one elk so not much experience. I used a 300 Weatherby. Needless to say, it did very nicely. I watched my partner kill two raghorn bulls with a 270 WSM, one at 410 yards and the other at 507 yards. Both went down immediately and were one shot kills.

I think if I had a hankering to use the 375, I would study the ballistics charts and use it. I have read the the 375 shoots pretty flat for a big cartridge. If you know the drop and have a range finder it ought to work way out there too.

[Dave]

I'm no elk hunter but it is my understanding when it comes to elk you make your first shot your money shot like always, but then just shoot fur if the elk tries to run after the first shot. Guys I know who have killed elk always try to get a second hit on them fast and don't mind a third. They do this with trophy whitetails too. You may blow some meat but they are shooting for horns and don't care. You alls guns seem fine but just plan on putting it on them.

[wm]

30-06.

It ain't sexy, it doesn't set me apart from the rest, and it has no mystique to it.

But it does put meat in the freezer.

Wm

[rjohns94]

If I ever get an elk tag here in Pa, it will be the .54 cal Virginia rifle flintlock or WWG in .457. or .475 linebaugh pistol. I would go for the experience. If I knew the area, I might even choose the longbow.

[cshold]

If I ever get an elk tag here in Pa, it will be the .54 cal Virginia rifle flintlock or WWG in .457. or .475 linebaugh pistol. I would go for the experience. If I knew the area, I might even choose the longbow.

[madman4570]

Never been elk hunting, but am going moose hunting first time next fall. I bought the Marlin 338 Express. Not sold on the Hornady bullet yet, will find something better before fall I am sure.

If you are in close I think you are covered, big time. If shooting any distance, my last choice for anything would be the 7mm. I just have no use for it. But if you know your gun that well and can put the 160gr bullet where you need to with confidence then you are probably good. Now, I was told by a lot of people on this forum, the same thing about using my 308 on the moose. I went with the 338ME, JUST in case I had encountered a little longer shot than ideal for 308.

I think the same for your 7mm. What if, hits you on last day of hunt and your only good shot on an Elk is at 325 yards. I would hardly call that ideal conditions for 7mm.

You shoot large calibers all the time and obviously not bothered by them. I would go with something a bit bigger JUST in case. Maybe a 300 win mag, 325 Win (never shot one)
or the Marlin 338ME. Or the 338 win mag, (although a bit much for me for sure)

Just my two cents and have never hunted an elk, but if in your shoes, I would want to cover my bases on the chance you may have a longer shot than expecting, and the 7mm would not be my first choice. I would want a bigger bullet.

Just trying to figure out how that 338 Marlin (200gr)at 400yds going 1818fps (1468ftlbs) with a trajectory hold over of more than a foot greater than the 7MM Rem Mag (165gr) doing 2430fps (2110ftlbs) makes for a better long range elk gun?

[cshold]

Never been elk hunting, but am going moose hunting first time next fall. I bought the Marlin 338 Express. Not sold on the Hornady bullet yet, will find something better before fall I am sure.

If you are in close I think you are covered, big time. If shooting any distance, my last choice for anything would be the 7mm. I just have no use for it. But if you know your gun that well and can put the 160gr bullet where you need to with confidence then you are probably good. Now, I was told by a lot of people on this forum, the same thing about using my 308 on the moose. I went with the 338ME, JUST in case I had encountered a little longer shot than ideal for 308.

I think the same for your 7mm. What if, hits you on last day of hunt and your only good shot on an Elk is at 325 yards. I would hardly call that ideal conditions for 7mm.

You shoot large calibers all the time and obviously not bothered by them. I would go with something a bit bigger JUST in case. Maybe a 300 win mag, 325 Win (never shot one)
or the Marlin 338ME. Or the 338 win mag, (although a bit much for me for sure)

Just my two cents and have never hunted an elk, but if in your shoes, I would want to cover my bases on the chance you may have a longer shot than expecting, and the 7mm would not be my first choice. I would want a bigger bullet.

Just trying to figure out how that 338 Marlin (200gr)at 400yds going 1818fps (1468ftlbs) with a trajectory hold over of more than a foot greater than the 7MM Rem Mag (165gr) doing 2430fps (2110ftlbs) makes for a better long range elk gun?

Madman, figured you’d be suggesting the .35 Rem. for some reason.

[madman4570]

For the woods and out to say 175 yds on Elk that 35 Rem(loaded with some Buffalo Bore 220grainers) (fantastic gun)
For Elk out to say 250 yards that 338 Marlin (Fantastic gun)though dont own one?
But, I see no way in heck that gun even remotely touches a stout 7MM Mag load for "long shots".
Personally, I have even had better kill ratios with the 7MM Mag compared to the 300 Win mag?
Call it luck or call it whatever but it is what it is!

Of the 400 big game animals Joe(86er) has taken with his 7MM Mag, bet he has lost very few(If any)?
I have found most people that dont like the 7MM Mag never owned one, or they did they never used it?

Also for anyone that even remotely is bothered by recoil (not me,but the wife)I have never experienced a cartridge that gives so much for so little recoil? Absolutely amazes me. Now the Win 300 mag with stout loads it kicks like all get out! (wife shoots that and she would probably never want to shoot another gun)

[FlyTyn]

I would not hesitate to use the 7mm mag. or the .375, unless you need an excuse to buy something new. I have killed elk with my .375 JDJ, 454 Casull, 45-70 Shiloh Sharps, .300 WSM and my favorite, Sako 75 in .300 Weatherby magnum. I use to hunt in the Scapegoat Wilderness area, where most of my shots were within 100 yards. For the past six years I hunt in a high desert environment where most of my shots are well over 200 yards. Which is why I like the .300 Weatherby, using 200 grain Accubonds at 3100 fps. Where posible, I go for high shoulder shots. I will not hesitate to shoot again if I think the animal will get into the woods.

Good luck on your hunt. It sounds like you are in for a good time.

Dale

[KirkD]

My brother-in-law has taken a lot of Elk over the past 40 years starting in Manitoba where he grew up, and for the last 20 years or so in the foothills of the Alberta Rockies. Almost all, if not all, of his Elk have been taken with the same 270. If the 270 will do it so consistently for him all these years, the long distance rifles you mentioned should do it at least as well, if not better.

One other thing, he told me just about a month ago that most of his Elk have been taken at less than 200 yards.

[madman4570]

What would really excite me would be taking the 32" H&R 1871 Buffalo Classic Single Shot in 45-70.
Using the Buffalo Bore 430 grainers and with them coming out of that 32" barrel at close to 2100fps (that should do nicely and also would be really cool)
Oh ya!!
Dont let the inexpensive price of the gun fool you. (Everyone, I have talked to that owns them, loves them)

[crs]

Range report on .338 and .405 :
86er,
As you know, my 1895 .405 shot as always on the range last weekend, despite the heat and wind. It is ready to go with NF 300 grainers loaded to 2250 fps and anything within 150 yards should be dead meat.

Yesterday the temperature was a mild 92 degrees when Ricky and I took my Ruger M77 MkI .338 Win mag to the range. Since I had not shot it since the trigger was adjusted to four pounds (down from 7+) , we set up at 50 yards to be sure it was on the paper. (BTW, someone shot up the target frame that you recently donated to the range?!?). After snapping a couple times on a fired case, I was very pleased with the trigger, and loaded up a Federal Premium Safari 210grain Nosler to see if it was still on target after five +years in the safe. When put away, it was sighted in to shoot 1.75 to 2 inches high at 100 yards to give a point blank range out to 250 yards. The results were good as you can see below and will be explained below the following picture.



Shot one at 50 yard: just under an inch high.
Shot two at 100 yards: 1.75 inches high
Shot three at 100 yards:New ammo- Winchester 225 grain Accubond and was six inches high. Bummer - they are sooo pretty!

The rifle feels great and since it shoots the Federal so well, they will go to Colorado as primary ammo with some Winchester Black Talon 230 grainers as backup(these shoot to almost same point of aim as the Federal 210 and they performed very well in Africa on antelope from Bushbuck to Eland). The new Accubonds may have been a waste of $$ and can wait until I have time to play with the scope.

Bottom line is that my elk hunting battery is good to go, we have plenty of celebratory Jamesons and good cigars, so what time are you picking me up next Sunday morning?
BTW, Marty has offerred to have a big breakfast of scrambled eggs and wild hog sausage with some of her home made apricot preserves ready when you arrive if you want to eat B 4 we hit the road.

[BigSky56]

Howdy FlyTyn welcome to the forum, theres good elk hunting in the danaher and fishing too, If I get the haying done and the cows out of the mountains I will be going in for the early rifle season. The high desert, are you hunting in zone 3 last year the family did good on elk down by the matador ranch. danny

[COSteve]

Deleted

[2X22]

Picture taken from my front door a month ago (August 6th).[/b]

Heh heh heh! Thats a dandy! Now imagine 23 cows, calves and bulls gathered around the roses.................

Man thats a nice bull!

2x22

[Spamtown_.45]

From your description of how well you shoot the 7mm I don't see why you wouldn't want to use that. I've never shot a 7mm but know lots of people in Montana who have taken elk with the 7mm (as well as a .270 Win, .270 Weatherby, and the venerable .30-06). Personally I would use my late fathers Model 70 in .300 Win Mag. The only thing I would change on this gun is to replace the Simmons 6X wide angel scope with a 4x12 Leupold.

[msmith1228]

I plan to go this year, will take either a 45-70 or a 35 Whelen. Can't make up my mind.

Mack

[t.r.]

My Dad killed a lot more elk than me and my brother combined. He hunted with a lever action 300 Savage and 180 grain Remington core-lokt ammo. But before WWII, Dad hunted with Grandad's 95 Winchester in 30-40 Krag. Dad considered 150 yards a long shot.

My experience has shown me that a shot of approx 125 to 225 yards is common in the elk country we've hunted. My rifle is a Savage lever action in .308 and I've had good luck with 180 grain FEDERAL HI-SHOK ammo and 150 grain Premium ammo.

Elk are not armor-plated despite the claims of so-called expert writers. But plan to shoot twice into the chest organs. Many elk hunters shoot once and stand open mouthed as the animal trots away. That's why the current trend to big booming magnums. Instead of one hard kicking magnum shot, shoot twice with a moderate recoiling cartridge like .308, 300 Savage, 7mm-08, 270, and others; observe the animal toppling quickly. Still too much recoil for fast second shot? Send your rifle to MagnaPort in Michigan and they'll eliminate muzzle jump for a fair price.

TR

[piller]

The 7mm Mag should do just fine from what I have seen of your shooting. I have very little experience with elk, but you are a good enough shot and are familiar with the 7mm Mag. I am just looking forward to hearing the hunting story.

[Don McDowell]

Speaking from actual experience.
Don't be shocked if that 45-70 load doesn't work worth horsespit. Change that to a 500 gr at 1200 fps and see what made the 45-70 famous.
Any good bullet in most any caliber with a sectional density of .240 or better and launched at a velocity of 2200 fps or more is a good choice.
Also don't be terribly shocked if the elk didn't read the gun magazines and fail to fall over dead just because that 338 was pointed at them.
Shot placement is key no matter how bad the rifle you tote makes you flinch when you jerk the trigger.

The very best elk rifle to take is the one you have the most experience and confidence in.

[Pathfinder09]

I'm old school, I use my .405 winchester , Barnes TXS over 4198. Knocks em down!

[fowler]

I know I don't post here much but some of you know me from other forums. I love elk hunting and having grown up in Colorado I have been doing it since I was 14 and I have taken about 20 of these wonderful animals and will be horse packing into the high country again this year in search of another elk. I live for this week every year, much to my wifes dismay.

There is nothing wrong with a 7 mag or a 45-70 they are as good as elk cartridges get. I would rather shoot a 160gr or 175gr Partition over the Accubond to get greater penetration and most of all a exit hole! Elk are tough, cows weight roughly 450 pounds, rag horns 550 pounds and mature bulls often go up to 800 pounds, they are big but not huge (unless you are back pack hunting and miles from the truck, then they are enormous!) and they are not bullet proof as some suggest.

Use tough, heavy for caliber bullets that will give good expantion but not at the expense of penetration. You want exit holes as it makes elk 10,000 times easier to find. I busted a bull at 125 yards with a 300 mag and 180 Partitions, I took the top of the heart and both lungs out and he ran 1/2 miles through heavy cover before he expired! If not for all the blood on everything I would have struggled to find him because he was in a herd of 30 elk and all the tracks sure blend together when they are running in the trees! Dont ever expect them to drop at the shot, I have only had one of my elk drop at the shot, the rest have all covered some distance before expiring.

Of course bullet placement is everything, but poke a elk in the lungs and they will die just like any animal. Once you hit them the first time keep shooting as long as they are on their feet. Don't ask me how I know seemingly hammered bulls can still get away on three legs never to be recovered.

You have killed enough game that you know all of this, shoot what you have confidence in, shoot it well, and everything will go just fine. We are all looking forward to the hero shots of you over your big bull this fall...

[71fan]

It sounds like you have it very well covered with your choices, and the concept sounds a bit familiar....

I am leaving for my Utah bull elk hunt on Thursday. I am starting the first several days with my M71 shooting 250 gr Barnes at 2300, which I will shoot to 250 yards. My second rifle is a 30-06 shooting 165 gr Accubonds.

I was considering taking my original Rolling Block 45-70 with BP and 500 gr. doing about 1100 fps, but being a BP newby, I couldn't get the load right and decided to cut my losses and concentrate on the other two rifles.

Anyway, good luck to you guys and I look forward to the pictures and stories. For the sake of the forum, I hope both of your animals are taken with the leverguns Your 7mm has enough experience already