870 or Mossy

[Blaine]

Not right away, but I'd like to get a reliable cheapo pump, prolly 20ga, for whatever. So, what is it gents, the 870 or the Mossberg? Those are the only two choices

[Griff]

Not right away, but I'd like to get a reliable cheapo pump, prolly 20ga, for whatever. So, what is it gents, the 870 or the Mossberg? Those are the only two choices

Hands down, the 870. But, it probably ain't goin' to be a "cheapo". But, then you said reliable.

[TedH]

The 870 will be a few more dollars, but will be worth it.

[RSY]

Really, whichever one you like the looks and feel of. They're both "reliable." I've had an 870 since I was in the 8th grade, and I recently sold my Citori, so my old 20-ga. 870 Wingmaster is my main shotgun, again.

I also used the Mossberg 590 extensively in the Marine Corps. It did the job, too. But, I just have the 870 in my hunting DNA, I guess, so that's where I'd personally lean.

Scott

[C. Cash]

I have a little Mossberg 20 Gauge pump for my boy and we shoot it a little. I bought it for him as a Turkey gun. For some reason it won't feed the second round,so we load it single shot. Had another 500 when I was younger and it worked fine, the recoil always seemed a little more severe with the aluminum reciever than with my doubles or the 870.

My Remington 870 Wingmaster simply will not fail, and I find it hard to miss with it as well. It doesn't feel as good with the forend way out front, but you get used to it.

[GoatGuy]

No contest; 20 ga. Remington 870 Express! - Get one.

About a month ago, female friend of family bought one at Wallyworld for $267 and change. 26" vent rib barrel, 3" chamber. modified Rem choke, bead blasted finish, laminated stock. Very nice and smooth shooter, lightweight, attractive. I thought it a super reasonable price for a shotgun with it's looks, quality, heritage and versatility. In my opinion, it can't be beat for an economically priced shotgun.

[madman4570]

I dont know?
The cheapo 870(Express)isnt like the regular 870----believe me i have tried em both!
With that said the Mossberg 500 is one of the very few pumps that have to pass the Mil-Spec 3443 torture standards.So I would take the Mossberg 500 over the Express(but not the regular 870)

But why not get a real gun and get a sweet fine shape Ithaca 37 Featherweight 20ga from like the early 70's(s/n 371XXXX) and have a real gun? (around $250)

[FWiedner]

The only difference between the 870 and the 870 express is the wood and finish. Same gun.

Both the 870 and the Mossy are good hard working guns, and I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

My preference is for the 870. I've owned at least one whenever I've personally owned a shotgun.

Only problem I ever had was with a newer Super Express Magnum. One of the factory shell stops was not shaped correctly and wouldn't let shells feed out of the magazine.

I'd suggest that you cycle a Snap Cap through yours before you leave the store to check function. Remington doesn't put a high priority on warranty repairs.

Other than that one shotgun I've never had a single problem. I cannibalized the parts and combined them with an older Super Express and got a better shotgun. Lemonade, I guess.

[RIHMFIRE]

870

[madman4570]

The only difference between the 870 and the 870 express is the wood and finish. Same gun.

Both the 870 and the Mossy are good hard working guns, and I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

My preference is for the 870. I've owned at least one whenever I've personally owned a shotgun.

Only problem I ever had was with a newer Super Express Magnum. One of the factory shell stops was not shaped correctly and wouldn't let shells feed out of the magazine.

I'd suggest that you cycle a Snap Cap through yours before you leave the store to check function. Remington doesn't put a high priority on warranty repairs.

Other than that one shotgun I've never had a single problem. I cannibalized the parts and combined them with an older Super Express and got a better shotgun. Lemonade, I guess.

Maybe it was just a couple bad ones up at the range but both I tried the action was nothing what so ever
like the 870's I am used to. Unless the new normal non-express 870's are that way also ?
Either will do,also might want to look at the Benelli Nova or Super Nova ?

[GoatGuy]

I dont know?
The cheapo 870(Express)isnt like the regular 870----believe me i have tried em both!
With that said the Mossberg 500 is one of the very few pumps that have to pass the Mil-Spec 3443 torture standards.So I would take the Mossberg 500 over the Express(but not the regular 870)

But why not get a real gun and get a sweet fine shape Ithaca 37 Featherweight 20ga from like the early 70's(s/n 371XXXX) and have a real gun? (around $250)

Mossberg shotguns look and feel "cheesy" to me and for my needs, and most others looking for a general purpose shotgun, some "mil-spec torture test standard" seems superfluous.

That said, the Express has the option of replacement barrels (examples - 28", 20" fully rifled and 20" smooth), availability of various choke tubes, replacement synthetic (if desired) stock and fore-end options. and the heritage of one of the most practical and long lived pump shotguns, the Wingmaster. No, the Express isn't as smooth operating (out of the box, but soon becomes so after a few boxes of shells), w/luxurious bluing and walnut stock and fore end as the Wingmaster, nor do they retail for upwards of $500 NIB as does the Wingmaster. For the majority of hunting and other needs calling for a shotgun, the Express meets the mark. And no, I won't be selling my old 2 3/4" chambered, 28" fixed mod. choked Wingmaster, but will soon own a 20 ga Express.

JMO, but as far as an Ithaca 37 is concerned, why, other than nostalgia. Not nearly as versatile a sporting arm.

[RSY]

The only difference between the 870 and the 870 express is the wood and finish. Same gun.

Well, to a point. There were some other corners cut for the Express...like the plastic trigger guard.

In defense of the Express, though, as someone mentioned they do break-in/slick-up rather quickly with just a few boxes of shells through them. Don't let the way the action feels in the store deter you.

[madman4570]

I dont know?
The cheapo 870(Express)isnt like the regular 870----believe me i have tried em both!
With that said the Mossberg 500 is one of the very few pumps that have to pass the Mil-Spec 3443 torture standards.So I would take the Mossberg 500 over the Express(but not the regular 870)

But why not get a real gun and get a sweet fine shape Ithaca 37 Featherweight 20ga from like the early 70's(s/n 371XXXX) and have a real gun? (around $250)

Mossberg shotguns look and feel "cheesy" to me and for my needs, and most others looking for a general purpose shotgun, some "mil-spec torture test standard" seems superfluous.

That said, the Express has the option of replacement barrels (examples - 28", 20" fully rifled and 20" smooth), availability of various choke tubes, replacement synthetic (if desired) stock and fore-end options. and the heritage of one of the most practical and long lived pump shotguns, the Wingmaster. No, the Express isn't as smooth operating (out of the box, but soon becomes so after a few boxes of shells), w/luxurious bluing and walnut stock and fore end as the Wingmaster, nor do they retail for upwards of $500 NIB as does the Wingmaster. For the majority of hunting and other needs calling for a shotgun, the Express meets the mark. And no, I won't be selling my old 2 3/4" chambered, 28" fixed mod. choked Wingmaster, but will soon own a 20 ga Express.

JMO, but as far as an Ithaca 37 is concerned, why, other than nostalgia. Not nearly as versatile a sporting arm.

First off you need to look up that Mil-Spec testing??(Only One of the "many" key factors is how long the gun lasts under both normal conditions and bad conditions? If that isnt a factor then so be it.Again many things were tested with this testing.And only the Mossberg passed it?
Now what you stated about all the options,the Mossberg does also all those only cheaper
For the older Ithaca featherweight to compare that with the cheapo Mossberg or a Cheapo 870
all I can say is you must not own a Ithaca or dont give a hoot about a shotguns feel and balance and never shouldered one

[madman4570]

The only difference between the 870 and the 870 express is the wood and finish. Same gun.

Well, to a point. There were some other corners cut for the Express...like the plastic trigger guard.

In defense of the Express, though, as someone mentioned they do break-in/slick-up rather quickly with just a few boxes of shells through them. Don't let the way the action feels in the store deter you.

Yep, among other things! LIKE:
The Express model has unfinished stamped parts that have burrs that CAN cause mechanical problems. The Wingmaster has had more time and money put into the finish and wood, but most importantly the internal parts have been finished and finished means that the a person took the time to take off the burrs on the internal working parts and see to it that they fit and function better. That extra time required to perform these tasks cost money.
Its no wingmaster for sure.
Both 870's Express's I tried were last years model and I shot a round of skeet with each.
They had each aprox 750rds through them and the action was still rough and I thought they seemed extremely slopy? Again maybe it was just those two(the only two I ever tried)which was enough.
Reason I tried them a guy at the club(pretty new to skeet) bought one of each for him and his wife to use for skeet??
I told him sell them and get a couple used Rem 1100's (LT 20 for the wife)
Then I tried a Benelli buddy had in his truck for comparison and the Benelli was so much superior to them from what i could see it wasnt funny.
That gun honestly had the balance/feel about as good as the Ithaca and its action was super fast and smooth!
Also over that Rem Express , I would take a Browning BPS any day of the week.

[iceman]

The 870 expess is not by any means the same as a Wingmaster, I have had both. My 20 ga is a circa 1965 wingmaster, I had an express 12 ga and kept it only a couple seasons rough finish ,hard to clean looks dirty all the time and I found the action gritty. I have a Mossberg 535 12 ga for geese (takes 31/2") and it works great. If going for a pump look seriously at the BPS I also had 1 of them but my buddy absolutely wanted to trade his 9422 for it. Who am I to argue with a buddy?

[FWiedner]

Perhaps I am misinformed...

[Nath]

Havin' a ball with my little 20g.





N.

[Pisgah]

I have owned and shot both for decades and in all honesty I cannot say one has impressed me over the other as better in any practical way.

Get the one you find the best deal on.

[GoatGuy]

For the older Ithaca featherweight to compare that with the cheapo Mossberg or a Cheapo 870
all I can say is you must not own a Ithaca or dont give a hoot about a shotguns feel and balance and never shouldered one

Never compared the Ithaca with the Express just the price you reported and merely outlined the superior versatility of the Express for BlaineG/ttt. My current interest in an 870 Express is as a tractor/truck gun here on the farm along with some game hunting in my neck of the woods.

I'm a lefty shooter and twice drank the Kool-ade and bought a bottom ejecting Ithaca Featherweight 12 ga in the late 70's and a 12 ga. BPS in the early 90's. Nothing specific to report other than I no longer own either of the bottom ejectors, but still shoot Remingtons.

Like many, my first gun was a shotgun. Spent a great deal of time trying to bag small game, doves, a number of tries at the scarce bobwhite where I was raised, puddle jumping ducks and anything else that seemed appropriate. Over the years I've shot/shot at a trailer load of targets (sporting clays) and once upon a time long ago ramrodded a Whitewing Dove hunting service across the border of Mexico and south Texas. With all that behind me I have never seen the real need to replace a Remington with a Beretta, Benelli, Ithaca or any other competitive shotgun. So one might say I'm kinda, sorta familiar with scatterguns, but suppose I just don't know now, and may never know, the difference between the "feel and balance" of a shotgun and a hoe handle.

[Hobie]

If you can't get the Ithaca get the 870. It is THE standard for pump guns nowadays.

[Rusty]

I asked the question on shotgunworld.com a while back as to the difference between an Express and a Wingmaster. The answer I got there was that there is basically no difference and that after you've fired 500 0r so rounds through them to break them in they would both be about the same. All I know is what they said. If it were me I'd go foe the Wingmaster after Jr's recent misfortune with the Remington rough finish I'll stick to the regular blue for all my stuff from now on thank you very much.

[madman4570]

I'm a lefty shooter and twice drank the Kool-ade and bought a bottom ejecting Ithaca Featherweight 12 ga in the late 70's and a 12 ga. BPS in the early 90's. Nothing specific to report other than I no longer own either of the bottom ejectors, but still shoot Remingtons.

Good luck whatever you end up choosing Blaine!
I'm sure this debate could go on and on for about forever. God Bless!

Now the bottom eject(Kool-aid thing)?
Never meant that bottom ejects are better when dealing with the abnormal left wingers. (since it shows only 11% of people in the US are lefties)so yes they would be considered kinda abnormal Now thats some kool-Aid

[Nath]

I have owned and shot both for decades and in all honesty I cannot say one has impressed me over the other as better in any practical way.

Get the one you find the best deal on.

I would go for the one that fits best!

nath.

[jcw]

I own both. Get the 870. It field strips easier with less parts. It's a tougher gun. There are you-tube videos on field stripping both shotguns.

[AJMD429]

I have an 8-shot Mossberg I've used roughly but not all that often for 30 years, and never cleaned it. Never jams, never fails, despite some really 'knobby' reloads I've fed it.

Never had a Remington 870, so nothing to compare to, but for the past 30 years, there's been no need to compare the Mossberg to anything, since it did what I asked of it. Mostly pest control on the farm, and 'being there' for home protection.

I can't imagine you'd be disappointed in either gun, but if the Remington isn't more than twice the cost, everyone seems to favor them. If the 870 is way more expensive, personally, I'd just get TWO Mossbergs - an extra one 'nearby' when you need it beats only having one in the closet.

[madman4570]

proofs in the pudding?

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ ... _remington_

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406831

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=292024

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 3&t=230395


Another cool option:


Browning BPS 16 Gauge (uplander with the straight English grip) I have one and it is a beautiful gun.
For only about $150 more than for a plastic stocked cheaper model 870 you really should look at them both.

From ChuckHawks.com

Originally a Shot Show Special, the 16 gauge BPS was received with enough enthusiasm to make it into Browning’s catalog as a regular production item. As many 16 gauge fans prefer, it is closer to the 20 gauge BPS in weight and dimensions than it is to its bigger brother, the 12 gauge BPS. As of this writing, it is the most versatile, high-quality, 16 gauge repeater you can buy and it comes with Browning's Invector screw-in chokes.

[Ysabel Kid]

My first pump was a Mossberg 500. I still have it. Very reliable and inexpensive. If I were to get one today though I think I'd go with the 870, simply because it can accept a longer magazine tube than the Mossbery can.

[ceb]

Blaine, Mossys are great guns, but for me its the 870 without question. And personally I'd look for a Wingmaster over the Express, not that the Express ain't a good hard use gun, I just like the blue and walnut.

[Old Savage]

Perfect Nath!!!

[darkwater]

Consider finding a gently used older model Wingmaster...they run about the same price as a new Express, they have superior fit and finish, and they don't suffer from today's QC issues.

About 2 years ago, I was looking at doing the very same thing, but a good deal came up on a new Express, so I went for it. Well, after I got the gun, it didn't work. I took it apart and figured out the trigger assembly was missing 3 pieces, the trigger plate pin bushing, the trigger plate pin detent spring, and the sear spring! I called Remington, they shipped the parts and I installed them myself rather than ship the gun to them. If they had bothered to test fire the assembled gun, even dry fire it a couple times, they would have caught this. What tipped me off to start with was that the trigger assembly was loose and the rear trigger plate pin kept sliding out too easily. Then, the action wasn't even staying closed...they missed a lot of clues. The gun runs fine, now, though I did have trouble with one batch of cheap shells that had steel bases...seems to be a common problem.

Edited to Add: However, Remington is also offering rebates until the end of the year: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and ... undup.aspx

[firefuzz]

There are several differences in the Express and the Wingmaster 870's as mentioned above, mostly finish work and the plastic trigger guard. However, some of the internals of the Express are MIM parts the Wingmasters aren't. The "parkerized" finish on the Express models leaves something to be desired, it's a rust magnet if left unsealed. I take care of this problem with Turtle car wax with good sucess.

Another problem is rough chambers or possibly the "park" getting in them during the finishing stage resulting in very sticky extraction if not locking the gun completely up, from the factory. It's an easy fix, I've had to polish the chambers of over a dozen brand new Express models with a steel wool wrapped bush and a drill moter during the last two years, but this should be done at the factory before the gun ever leaves.

Having said that I currently have 5 870 Express models, including a 20ga youth that's my daughter's gun. Two of the 12ga's are rigged out in riot/police fashion that I use in shotgun training, both as my guns and loaners for students. Either of these guns shoot more shells annually than most hunters will shoot in ten years of hunting and I've never had a problem with either of them. The one gun's shell count is over 8000, the other over 5,000 and countless more dummy rounds cycled thru each. I was the original owner of the 20ga, it was my oldest son's first shotgun, my daughter is the forth. It's been used buy three other young shooters as their first shotgun and was rode pretty rough until I bought it back for her. Still works great (Dad even sneaks it out to use as a rabbit gun....don't tell her )

I've posted on two shotgun forums requesting info on any broken plastic trigger guards and either no one's ever seen one or just didn't reply. I've never seen one and have seen several of these guns take some pretty hard knocks, I have seen two broken aluminum ones on police guns.

Even with the problems listed above the 870 Express is still the best bang for your buck out there. IMHO, YMMV.

Rob

[madman4570]

Now when a spade is a spade I have to call it and stand corrected!
Just got back from grabbing a couple boxes of 44Mags at my friends Gun Shop and we talked about the Remington 870 Express.

I looked at two brand new ones very thoroughly, and one of which he even stripped down.(very easily)
I have to say,these looked very good /felt good/cycled very good/ an entirely different deal than the two a while back I tried at the Gun club.
According to Dave(gun shops owner) The Company finally took heart and got its act together because of some minor issues people had and they tightened their belt on the manfufacture of certain small internal parts and the total quality control of these weapons.
These felt perfect/they were smooth as silk and were not excessively loose or sloopy.
Dave said he feels someone should look to try and get one that was manufactured after 11/09 since it seems thats about when they really started getting it together.(A call into the Corp.with the s/n can confirm this)

So, the guns I saw today(sure I would buy one)! About $275 after rebate(truely a very good deal)
With that said, I change my mind and would get the new(manf. after 11/09 870 Express) for most bang for your buck

[Blaine]

SO..... How about those Camo 870s??

[GoatGuy]

They're way COOL, ttt!

[Blaine]

My first real gun (not BB or pellet) was a Mossberg 12ga pump with the adjustable choke. I sure wish I had it again.

I'll prolly look for a visual beater 20 that's got good innards. It will be out in salt water and in the back seat quite a bit.

[Hobie]

Blaine,

As others have mentioned, I think there is a difference between the vintage guns and the newer 870s. I know that the lifter has a different shape and some have had problems. I think it was Sarge who reshaped a 12 ga. lifter to get reliable feeding. Might not apply to the 20 ga. I am NOT a fan of the plastic trigger guards myself but if you like it by all means enjoy it. They might actually be more practical in your area.

[RSY]

It will be out in salt water and in the back seat quite a bit.

A 500 or 590 Mariner with the Marinekote finish may be a good option, in that case.

[Buffboy]

I'll second Darkwater's recommendation. A good condition, older 870 Wingmaster is a real bargain, if you can't find one for less than $200, you ain't shopping. I've passed on them at $150 simply because I don't need more than one. My cousin picked up a mid-50s 2 3/4" model that looked like new for $125 last fall. It was a little stiff but a thorough cleaning (inside looked like it had never been completely torn down since it was built) fixed that right up. IMO there is nothing that beats the 870 for smooth operation, not even the Winchester Model 12(that ought to start a fight ).

The Mossberg 500 is a good shotgun too but is not as smooth. Ditto the Express.

[RSY]

One thing I found about the Mossberg 590: When I used it in a tactical situation during my days in the USMC, it always felt like the forearm was way out there and was somewhat uncomfortable to reach, at times. Of course, that may be more related to the fact that I was wearing a flak jacket and LBE, thereby increasing the length of pull, than the gun, itself.