Comparing 45 cal cartridges

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:36 pm

Has anyone done a comparison of 45 cal levergun cartridges?

I would like to figure out which one I want this year. On my list so far:
45-70
450 Marlin
457 Magnum (wildwestguns.com)

Any others worth considering?
Pros and Cons?

I want a 45 cal levergun as there seems to be more non-lead bullets
available for use in CA.

Tanks,
Jay

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:05 pm

Well, there's the Rossi in 454 casull. It will also shoot 45lc.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:58 pm

The 45-70 can be loaded to do everything the 450Marlin and 457WW will do and then some. A 45-90 of recent manufacture would allow you to shoot 45-70, 457WW and 45-90 cartridges.

The 457WW is a slightly long 45-70 case (or a shortened 45-90) loaded primarily with a 350gr Kodiak at 2100fps give or take a bit. I can get that bullet to the same velocity in the standard 45-70 without being at a max load. Boutique ammunition makers offer such loadings commercially.

This is a similar situation to the 460 S&W. A gun in that caliber will shoot 460, 454 and 45 Colt. The difference here is that the pistol cartridges have much more significant differences in the bullet weight and velocity capability that the rifle cartridges discussed above.

Personally, I am satisfied with the 45-70 with appropriate loads for everything I want to shoot within the range parameters. Generally, I shoot more large critters than most folks with a couple of water buffalo, bison, bears, a host of exotics and an annual Africa trip each year. I've never wished I had a 457WW or a 45-90. If I question the ability of the 45-70 I jump up to a 416 Rigby, 416 Rem Mag or 450/400 3".

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:58 pm

86er wrote:The 45-70 can be loaded to do everything the 450Marlin and 457WW will do and then some.

This is what I was thinking as well. I wanted to confirm that the 45-70
is what I'm looking for and don't need some new wizbang cartridge.

Thanks 86er

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:41 am

Trust me on this one Get the 45/70 first and then buy the Puma in 454 or 45colt. I have both Dont want to offend any body but i would throw away my beloved 30/30 to keep them!!!! i shot my plain jane 1895 for year but for hiking around it is heavy after 4-5 hours, I then traded a Mini-30 stainless in on a Puma 45colt with 16'' barrel and stainless steel. It will do for 95percent of all shooting needs and then of course you need a Ruger 45 for a compaion good luck happy shooting

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:02 pm

I second most everyone's opinion on this one - GET THE 45-70

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:00 pm

45-70 DEFINATELY!

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:56 pm

I love my 450 Marlin but my 95 LTDIII 45-70 gets more use than any of my other levers with the exception of my 32-20s.

The 45-70 is just plain easy to load for and brass is waayyyy cheaper than the 450 (mainly bullet selection. the longer, heavier bullets don't work well).

I only have one load for the 450M for slaying dragons and other beasties.
The 45-70 gets used for plinking, hunting and everything in between.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:32 pm

45-70

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:56 am

ill go with the 45-70 also, but im not sure their are more non lead bullets available here in kalifornia. in fact, i havent seen any although if i hunt next year up north i had better have non lead or not hunt.

bsaride wrote:Has anyone done a comparison of 45 cal levergun cartridges?

I would like to figure out which one I want this year. On my list so far:
45-70
450 Marlin
457 Magnum (wildwestguns.com)

Any others worth considering?
Pros and Cons?

I want a 45 cal levergun as there seems to be more non-lead bullets
available for use in CA.

Tanks,
Jay

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:19 pm

45-70

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:27 pm

.45-70

1886 · Post by **1886** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:23 am

Another vote for the .45-70 Govt. If you want something a little different look at the 86 in .45-90. After you scratch that itch look at the .454/.45 Colt. Regards. 1886.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:36 am

Another vote for the grand ol' 45-70.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:02 am

86er wrote:The 45-70 can be loaded to do everything the 450Marlin and 457WW will do . . . Personally, I am satisfied with the 45-70 with appropriate loads for everything I want to shoot within the range parameters . . .

Absolutely +1. No whizbang new cartridges needed. Just the right rifle platform.

The 45-70 loaded with 50 grains of 3031 under a 400 gr jacketed soft point and fired in a round-bolt 1895 Marlin will do anything that I need it to in the Lower 48. That load dropped the very last deer that I killed, back in 1987, and I mean dropped. It hit the left shoulder and took out the right one, hitting the lungs and the top of the heart on the way through, and leaving a fist-sized hole on the right side. Despite the stiff load, the cases can be reinserted in the chamber with little force.
The load kills at both ends, but I wouldn't be surprised if it penetrated light armor, given the chance.

Noah

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:43 pm

.45-70. The brass will still be available long after the other cartridges are forgotten. In modern guns the .45-70 is easily loaded to duplicate the other two calibers. Even the .45-70 doesn't offer anything extra unless the gun action allows it to be loaded to a greater COL. In that instance a .45-70 loaded to the same COL would duplicate the .45-90 and could use a ballistically more efficient bullet.

Scott Young · Post by **Scott Young** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:41 pm

well i have a .45-70. all i can say is i wish i had purchased one sooner. even though mine is in an h&r, it is awesome!!

i have had more fun shooting mine that i would have dreamed.

WyrTwister · Post by **WyrTwister** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:15 pm

bsaride wrote:Has anyone done a comparison of 45 cal levergun cartridges?

I would like to figure out which one I want this year. On my list so far:
45-70
450 Marlin
457 Magnum (wildwestguns.com)

Any others worth considering?
Pros and Cons?

I want a 45 cal levergun as there seems to be more non-lead bullets
available for use in CA.

Tanks,
Jay

.45-70 !

God bless
Wyr

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:17 pm

If I could only have one rifle it would be my .45-70.

Even using Remington factory ammo it's still the best IMO.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:49 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Well, there's the Rossi in 454 casull. It will also shoot 45lc.

Really?? Hmmm....

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 pm

I'd like to have a .454 Rossi but I've heard a lot of bad stuff about them. The Rossi .357 I had was excellent.

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:02 am

Swampman wrote:I'd like to have a .454 Rossi but I've heard a lot of bad stuff about them. The Rossi .357 I had was excellent.

I've had no major problems with mine but I have heard of stocks cracking. Mine does have some overall length and bullet shape concerns. Some bullets it doesn't feed as well as others but that can be a problem with any of the Rossies(or Marlins for that matter). I've never shot SWCs in mine so I don't know if there's a problem there. The overall length deal is because the 454 is near the max for the design of the action. My problem was with a wide flat pointed cast bullet(two crimp groves) seated out to the second crimp groove. With it seated to the seated to the deeper grove, the problem went away, with the loss of some powder space. I needed to seat them deeper anyway to get rid of a little bullet jump in the pistol to get more neck tension.

The 45-70 can handle much heavier bullets than 454.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:22 am

My Rossi 454 is the best made (fit, finish, smoothness) of the four Rossi's I've had. Functions fine, too. My 2007-vintage gun's buttstock has a soft plastic 'sleeve' in the tang-screw hole, which may be a response to the stock cracking issues; I don't know if they have always had that.

Power-wise, it seems like the 454 has to be 'pushed' to get where the 45-70 goes even with moderate loads. You can push the 45-70 really far in the right guns, although mine is a Marlin 1895 and I don't know that I'd want to 'push' it too far in that action.

The thing is, what is there you really need a 'hot' 45-70 for, anyway? Not very many things I can think of a properly placed moderate load wouldn't drop in its tracks on the U.S. continent. Probably with the right bullet the same can be said for the .454, which is in a handier package. You can slim down the 45-70 as a 'guide' gun and get what the stock .454 is like, but you could slim down the 454 and get a REALLY light little gun if you wanted. Just a mite less power.

Comparing 45 cal cartridges

Comparing 45 cal cartridges

Re: Comparing 45 cal cartridges

Re: Comparing 45 cal cartridges