Very OT: General Custer's Book Fascinating

[KirkD]

Men, I just finished reading through General George Custer's own book (the one he wrote) My Life on the Plains. I highly recommend that you download it from here http://www.kancoll.org/books/custerg and read it. It is a wealth of information on details of the US Cavalry, the plains, Indians, scouts, camp life and more, all written by a person who actually lived it during the late 1860's and whose first-hand, eyewitness experiences were recorded by himself within a year or two of when they happened, if not immediately. What a different world! You have to have immense respect for the toughness of the US Cavalry at that time, given the conditions they lived under from day to day and from the way they calmly handled combat in such an orderly fashion. Just one of many fascinating accounts involves an attack by a substantial force of Indians upon their wagon train. They didn't stop; they just kept on moving in tight formation, like a big slow winding machine, fighting back in a methodical, orderly and controlled manner as they continued to roll on, refusing to let the Indians stop them. The book gives a detailed, fascinating account of various tactical moves and strategies by both the Indians and the Cavalry within the context of actual battles and skirmishes. Another thing that is fascinating is the different spin the newspapers of the East put on the US Cavalry and their battles with the Indians. Custer discusses this, pointing out the vast difference in knowledge between those who actually lived and traveled in the west, and those in cities back East who only imagined what life was like in the west on the basis of one or two people they talked to or, worse, simply fabricated their own versions of events driven by their own biases. It really underscores the difficulty of accurately understanding historical events, if one only reads second or third hand accounts, vs first-hand, eyewitness accounts. My assessment of General Custer, upon reading his book, is that he was a gentlemen, a courageous fighting man, and a man who told the truth as a matter of honor, not embellishing what happened, but giving a straight forward account. It is interesting to Google the major battle described in his book and see that many of today's sites refer to it as a massacre. I suspect that is based upon the very Eastern newspapers and heavily biased reporting that Custer discusses early in his book, and then later on after the battle. Reading General Custer's account of the months, incidents, actual event gives a much more complete, and different view. The only website I found that gave a more scholarly, well referenced view, was Wikipedia which matches very closely General Custer's account. It really raises red flags about historical re-constructions based on shaky evidence. Some of the other accounts take the testimony of some of the squaws who were there, but their account gives a radically lower number for the men who were killed, hardly qualifying as a massacre (in comparison to larger numbers of settlers killed by the same Indians). Furthermore, it was to the Indians' advantage to downplay their losses. I would take General Custer's detailed account as much more reliable, for more reasons that those listed here. The book, with its many interactions between individual Indians and Indian tribes, clearly illustrates the different view Indians held of truth, lying, and deception from the Judeo-Christian morality. The Indians had a very pragmatic and hierarchical approach to honor and deception that involved one standard among themselves, and another, entirely different standard for the settlers, who they regarded as a source of plunder and as enemies, not worthy of the same standard. Anyway, it is a fascinating read, well worth downloading.

[Borregos]

Sounds really interesting Kirk, will download that later.
Recently visited Custers birthplace in New Rumley Ohio and that was interesting too.

[piller]

A good search will show you that Custer was lured into a trap with a small group of his men. He left the majority of his forces behind, and the mostly Lakota force of ambushers were armed in several cases with Winchester rifles. The Winchesters of course had a significant rate of fire advantage over the single shot .45-70 carbines carried by the soldiers. At the time he died, Custer was a Lt. Colonel. He was not as bad of a tactician as some would try to make him out to be, nor was he as good as others wish to think. He was a good tactician as is evidenced that he stayed alive for so long against a foe who was one of the best there was at guerilla tactics. Kind of like much of history, the truth is somewhere in between the two extremes of opinion. My Great Grandfather mustered out for a full retirement just two weeks before the 7th Cavalry left for the campaign which ended in the battle of The Little Big Horn, or as another ancestor would have said, the battle of the greasy grass.
He couldn't have been a bad officer as he was kept on after the War Between the States and so many were let go. The problem with fighting a war is that you generally make only one mistake as mistakes are fatal.

[Marc]

I just finished reading The Last Stand by Nathaniel Philbrick. It is a new book, just published this year. Very interesting read! The "last stand" is a misnomer. The Indians claimed the "last stand" lasted about 20 minutes. There was no "stand", the "last over run" is more like it.

There has been a lot of fault finding about the decisions made that day and there were plenty of questionable decisions made. That is always the case in battle. The simple fact is Custer was badly out numbered and lost that battle.

Custer wasn't "lured" anywhere. He set out to find and attack the village and he did so. There are a lot of interesting details in the book. Major Reno was drunk that day, several survivors reported seeing him drinking, and apparently he made every effort to stay drunk. He was supposed to attack the village first but when he saw how big it was he stopped and ultimately ran. No fighting withdrawal there.

Captain Benteen was exhausted, which may account for some of his actions. At one point he layed down and went to sleep while they were being fired on. At least a couple bullets nearly hit him there. Custer had ordered Benteen to bring up the pack train and join him. Instead Benteen ran into Reno after Reno's battalion had been half destroyed and stayed with Reno. He only made a half hearted attempt to join Custer. There was bad blood between the officers. Benteen had a grudge against Custer because a friend of his, Major Elliot and his unit, had been cut off and killed at the Washita and Benteen thought Custer should have tried to save him. Benteen was an excellent fighter though and was hailed by some as the savior of the Seventh since he ran the successful defense of his and Reno's position.

At the Greasy Grass, Custer sat up on the bluffs and watched Reno's battalion being cut up and made no attempt to help him. In fact, Reno was supposed to get reinforced under the original plan. Instead Custer went to the other end of the village to capture women and children since that is what worked and saved his bacon at the Washita. He didn't make it at the Greasy Grass.

Custer was a legitimate hero in the Civil War. He played a major part in the Union winning at Gettysburg. He was an excellent Cavalry leader and loved to fight. In fact, it was reported at the Greasy Grass that he had a smile on his face when his body was found.

Fascinating stuff. I am going to visit the battlefield next time I am near it.

[jnyork]

For those of you who enjoy such things, Custer's wife Elizabeth (Libby) wrote IIRC 3 books about HER life on the plains with the Cavalry and her life after her husband's death. A very interesting window on history.

[alnitak]

Thanks for the link, Kirk.

I did not see anyway to download the book, so for those who are interested, I copied the chapters into a Word document and can email it to anyone who wants it. I find using an ebook reader, like Calibre or Mobi Pocket Reader works well with these type of files.

[KirkD]

One of the values of reading General Custer's book is that you get to hear from him, not about him. I would recommend reading his book before looking into the battle of Little Big Horn. Custer's own words and personal experiences provide the best context within which to read what other people said about him, etc. Without Custer's own words, any judgment calls become one-sided. This is not to say that General Custer made no mistakes. It is just to say that if we are going to read about what other historians believe about Custer, we should also read about what Custer himself wrote. Then we are in a position to make more objective assessments.

That is only part of the value of his book. A major value is the first hand observations he recorded of Indian life, scouts, Cavalry life, skirmishes, etc. If you like Louis L'Amour, you'll find a lot to enjoy in General Custer's book.

[Marc]

Kirk, you are indeed correct and I don't believe I fell into that trap. I don't believe I said anything critical of Custer and I don't intend to criticize. Only the facts as closely as they can be ascertained. I would also caution you that Custer was an extremely ambitious man and what he wrote is self serving. Not to say it has no value-only that we should take it all with a grain of salt. There is no doubt Custer was a remarkable man, but like all of us, he was a mixed bag.

The book I read considers the writings of a great many people and also many interviews with the Indians. Now that you have read your book you are ready to sink your teeth into The Last Stand!

His wife, Libby, made it her life's work to make sure that George was remembered as a gallant hero rather than a rash fool. Given the circumstances at the time, it could have gone either way. Reno and Benteen had no reason whatsoever to paint Custer as a hero. Nor did General Terry who was Custer's immediate commander. Libby was successful in her effort and thus the myth was born.

[Charles]

I wonder how many folks know of Col Ranald McKenzie. He graduated at the head of his West Point class in 1862. During the Civil War he was wounded 6 times and received 7 brevets. He ended the war as a Brevet Major General. Grant said he was the most promising officer in the Union Army. He stayed in the Army after the war as a Captain with the 24th Infantry and later Col of the 4th Cavalary. He was an Indian fighter deluxe and received his seventh wound, an arrow in his leg campaigning. He was the man who finaly defeated the Comanche and forced Quanah Parker to surrender at Ft. Sill.

There are many parallels between Custer and McKenzie. Everybody remembers Custer because he suceeded in getting himself and his command killed. Few remember McKenzie because he was sucessful and not a failure like Custer.

McKenzie was appointed Brigader General shortly before he fell from a wagon and received a brain injury that caused him to be retired from the Army. He remaining years were years of suffering due to the head injury.

[BwanaDave]

I recently read Custer's Plains book and enjoyed it greatly. I agree it is a good read.

[vancelw]

http://www.amazon.com/Keep-last-bullet- ... 0917256026

The above book is a very interesting and plausible read.
Written in 1926 after interviewing many warriors and soldiers who were young men during the battle. Book was not published until 1976 because the author's opinions were not popular.
Custer and his superiors (and subordinates) were men and men make mistakes.

[Beaker]

Wer still fightn them thar injuns out here. How do ya down load that thar book.

[KirkD]

By gum, men! I fear the whole point of my recommending this book has been lost! It was to do with the details of plains life that General Custer describes so carefully. He has a detailed description of how the Indians sent smoke signals. Do you know what the Indians fed their horses in the winter? How the Indian Agents interacted with the Indians and the Cavalry and how the Indians did likewise. It is his detailed descriptions of topography, how this was done, or that, that reveals a lot about Custer. What kind of arms did Scouts normally carry? .... and it goes on. Incidentally, it is not because of how Custer handled himself in combat that I said he was courageous, but for something totally different that Custer seems to consider a possible mistake. I won't mention it here, you'll see it in the book in the last half, after there are no further battles or skirmishes.

The book ends around 1868 or 1869, long before his death. I personally doubt that his wife did any redaction to try and make him look like a hero, primarily because there does not seem to be any attempt in the book to do it; he writes in a straight-forward way that includes the good, the bad and the downright silly (as in the time he accidentally shot his own horse in the brain while by himself hunting a buffalo, itself a foolish thing which he admits to). For those interested in Custer, there's nothing like reading his own book to give you insight into the way he thought. Don't assume you know what it is in the book until you have read it in its entirety.

This isn't about whether he is a hero or a failure (which is a bit of a false dichotomy). It is about life on the American Plains, during the Indian wars of the late 1860's. It ends way before the Battle of Little Big Horn in 1876, some seven or eight years after this particular book ends.

[Ysabel Kid]

Thanks for the recommendation Kirk!

[JReed]

Kirk Thank you for the recommendation. I am sure I will enjoy reading it.

[20cows]

I read it years ago and enjoyed it for the same reasons. I would recommend Charles Goodnight's diary for a look at how the Texas Rangers worked before the Civil War.

[AJMD429]

By gum, men! I fear the whole point of my recommending this book has been lost! It was to do with the details of plains life that General Custer describes so carefully.

Not on me....! I downloaded it at the office (DSL), but it was too long to print at once. I printed the first couple chapters though and they are FASCINATING.

I just assumed long ago that since I wasn't there (I'm not that old...), I'll never fully believe I understand what actually happened at the 'last stand'. Even then, there would have been alot of different people trying to 'spin' events for various purposes, and 130 years of time passing hasn't likely clarified anything. On that topic I'll read various versions with an open mind, but not feel obligated to 'side' with any particular version.

Anyway, your original point I got right away - always fascinating to read real-life accounts of other places and times. And I doubt the types of 'lifestyle' things like what the horses ate or how signals were sent, got much 'spin' - they're not controversial - just INTERESTING...

[Charles]

I am not a Custer fan, but his book is indeed worth the effort to read for the information it gives you on the culture and times in which it was written. Army officers, particularly USMA grads were some of the best educted and observant folks on the frontier and many wrote of their experiences. The corpus of their works gives us a window into their world.

[Charles]

I read it years ago and enjoyed it for the same reasons. I would recommend Charles Goodnight's diary for a look at how the Texas Rangers worked before the Civil War.

I was not aware Charlie Goodnight kept a diary or published a book. I am not having much luck finding it. Can you give me more information, so I can get a copy? I am interested in Goodnight's world and pre-Civil War Ranger information.

[JerryB]

Kirk, thanks for posting this. I'll check at the library when we take the grandkids back for more books Monday.

[KirkD]

Kirk, thanks for posting this. I'll check at the library when we take the grandkids back for more books Monday.

Jerry, you don't need to go to the library, you can download it for free by clicking on the link I provided in the first post. You'll have to download it one chapter at a time, however, as each chapter is a separate file. Alternatively, I think Alnitak put all the chapters into a single Word document, so if you give him your email, he said he can email you the book as a single file.

20cows, I'd be interested in any additional information you can supply re. that Charlie Goodnight diaries, mainly where it can be found or what the title of the book is.

[Fiddler]

Gee, I posted this very same topic a while back: http://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewt ... 11#p336974
I guess I didn't sell it with enough enthusiasm.

[KirkD]

Fiddler, your post may have been what alerted me to the downloadable book.

[DixieBoy]

Kirk - Don't worry, lots of us "get it" about this book, and reading history in general.

I actually read the section in this book - where Custer describes his chasing a buffalo on horseback, and accidentally shooting his own horse in the head - to my class on American Indian History. I wanted to challenge the ideas that most of the kids had about Custer, that he was just a one dimensional glory-hunting fool. Custer was obviously much deeper than that.

My copy is the Citadel Press edition, with the introduction by Milo Milton Quaife. One thing which I appreciated in this volume was the footnotes which illustrate how certain incidents were creatively "self edited" by Custer himself. Custer was notoriously tough on his men, and on at least one occasion he deserted his own command. But, that's not the focus of your post and I can appreciate that.

The important point you're making - I think - is that with "My Life on the Plains" a reader is getting a true picture of the place in those times. For that alone, I love this book. What it looked like, what it smelled like, all of the little things which made the west of those days what it was. And of course, all of the specifics of Indian life and warfare are priceless.

You're right that wayyyyyyyyyy too much history is still mis-represented to us, by people who either have agendas, or are just old fashioned fakes. First person stuff is almost always worth reading.

By the way, Kirk, do you subscribe to Wild West Magazine ? If not, you need to. It's right up your alley. The issue before this most recent one (the latest has Morgan Earp on the cover) had a great article about how Custer had testified about corruption in the Interior Department, and in doing so, implicated President Grant's brother. The author of the article felt that Custer had "proving himself" on his mind when he rode into immortality at the Little Bighorn that day.

One thing's for sure, the controversy about Custer will never die, and so, he has achieved immortality, hasn't he ?

A last thought: there is a book I read a while back and can't find now to ID the author. It's called The Commerce of the Prairies, or something close to that. It's loaded with observations from an old teamster who plied his trade and wrote about it. Great stuff.

I enjoy getting turned on to books I may have missed about the west from, say, 1830's to the early 1900's. Any others you think we might enjoy, let's hear about 'em. - DixieBoy

[KirkD]

The important point you're making - I think - is that with "My Life on the Plains" a reader is getting a true picture of the place in those times. For that alone, I love this book. What it looked like, what it smelled like, all of the little things which made the west of those days what it was. And of course, all of the specifics of Indian life and warfare are priceless.

That is exactly it. It is the next best thing to being there. I do have a few Wild West magazines. From time to time our local shooting supplies store has some copies. I really enjoy that magazine. It would be good to get a collection of books written by fellows out west between 1800 and the late 1880's.

[20cows]

Well, y'all's questions made me go look for the book. It's been a while since I read it and then I remembered I loaned my copy to my dad.

The book wasn't published all that long ago (1981 or so), but does indicate the author had interviewed Goodnight and had access to his papers and diary for a time. I wish I could put my hands on my copy because I think the author did the research back in the '20s.

Anyway, here is a link to the book on ABE Books.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... &x=22&y=15

[slimster]

Kirk, Fiddler, guys about a year ago I had a pdf copy of "The Last of the Great Scouts", a biography about Boffalo Bill Cody written by his widow. I dont have access to it at this time as it's on the hard drive of my broken computer, but I had e-mailed it to quite a few members on the forum. Several of them replied on here to say they recieved it, and they would probably be happy to send you a copy. Here's the link: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=19062 If no one can come up with a copy, I possibly could find it online again.

[Marc]

Kirk, I certainly did not mean to lead your thread astray. I just thought if you were interested in Custer and how he thought you may also be interested in his moment of glory. Perhaps I didn't describe the book well enough.

The only agenda the author of The Last Stand has is to sort through all the contradictory and incomplete testimony about the battle and try to determine what really happened. He doesn't draw conclusions except where the testimony seems to be consistent. Other than that he leaves it to the reader to draw their own conclusions. As part of this effort he also has many descriptions of army life on the plains and includes many quotations from original sources, including Custer's description of how he shot his horse. If you are interested in how Custer thought, this author devotes a lot of space to trying to understand the thinking of many of the people in the Seventh Cavalry. Most of the book is a description of life on the frontier and previous events to establish a background against which the significance of Main event can be understood.

There are also descriptions of steamboat travel on the Missouri River since that was the main means of moving men and supplies in those days on the northern plains. If you like history this is a good book.

Another author from the opening of the frontier that you may be familiar with is George Frederick Ruxton. Ruxton traveled the west with a couple of mountain men around 1840 IIRC. He wrote a serial that was published in periodicals of the time. The installments in the serial have been collected in various books that were published under different titles. Ruxton of the Rockies is one that comes to mind. George was an Englishman who fought in Spain and traveled Mexico and Canada too. This is all fascinating stuff to me! And it is all of one piece-the history of the west.

[Fiddler]

Most people don't realize that Custer had quite a sense of humor. His first meeting with the eccentric, colorful scout "California Joe" was hilarious. Custer had fun with that.

[KirkD]

Kirk, I certainly did not mean to lead your thread astray. I just thought if you were interested in Custer and how he thought you may also be interested in his moment of glory. Perhaps I didn't describe the book well enough.

Marc, those sound like very interesting reads. I love to read first hand accounts of life in the wild west/old west. This has made me want to put together a collection of books written by people who actually lived at that time and in that place. Particularly fascinating to me is first hand accounts of how the Indians, settlers and cavalry interacted at that time. Then there is the fiction, such as that written by Louis L'Amour, which I also thoroughly enjoy.

[Charles]

20cows... Thanks for the info. I will order the book ASAP.

[Lawyer Daggit]

Kirk D not only have I read the Custer book, but also many of the other E books about Kansas available on that site.

Social history is a fascinating area.

[BwanaDave]

If you like social history read Askins' Unrepentent Sinner. got to love the guy.