Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Boys, this 119 year old Winchester Model 1873 has become one of my all-time favourite rifles. This old timer earned its keep a century ago, judging from its worn, but completely original appearance. When I hold this old '73, I think of a late 1800's farm yard just a few miles north of the Vermont-Canadian border. In the valley is a ripe corn field, bounded by a cedar rail fence, nestled in the Maple-covered hills. Half the leaves have fallen. It is the end of October, late in the day, and woodsmoke curls up from the chimney of the house. At the far end of the corn field, a couple Whitetail deer cautiously feed on some cobs, but the farmer, he's already got his venison for the winter, thanks to his Winchester Model 1873 that someday, more than a century in the future, will be greatly enjoyed and cared for by myself, and add another Whitetail deer to its tally.
There was a long time when I thought little of the 38-40 cartridge, preferring its slightly bigger brother, the 44-40. But after getting my first 38-40 (originally known as the 38 W.C.F.) in the form of an old Winchester Model 1892 made in 1913, it rapidly became one of my favourite cartridges. Then I began to read of those who had taken many and large Whitetail with this classic cartridge, and I realized that I had badly underestimated it. It is coming with me this fall to make venison one more time.
I like handling this old rifle, often taking it down just to hold it in my hands and feel the history silently spoken in its appearance. Here's a photo of the old timer getting some attention ....
I wanted to develop a smokeless load for this rifle that would duplicate original black powder ballistics, but at a pressure that was less than or equal to black powder and give me decent accuracy. Of the powders I have on hand, these criteria restricted me to Alliant 2400, IMR SR4759 and Accurate 5744. My trials with 5744 ended abruptly after my first trip to the range ...... the pressure was simply too low to properly bump up the soft-cast bullet, giving five-shot groups at 100 yards that were 7 or 8 inches. I noted that the faster the burn rate, the better the accuracy. Both 2400 and 4759 gave decent five shot groups just over 3" at 100 yards, but after quite a few trips to the range as I tweaked the load to give me in the low 1,300's fps, it became evident that 2400 had a slight edge over SR4759 due to its slightly faster burn rate. Both loads, however, give decent accuracy so they will both go down in my books as final loads, but I will be loading the 38-40 using 2400 from now on.
My final 'Pet Load' for the Winchester 1873, 38 WCF (aka 38-40) is 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 under a 188 grain RCBS cast bullet for 1,320 fps. Here's the final 100 yard, five shot group I shot at lunch time today ....
My 'back-up' load for the Winchester 1873 38-40 is 17.5 grains of IMR SR4759 under the same cast bullet for 1,328 fps. Here's the final 100 yard, five shot group I shot late last week before I tweaked the front sight to center things up a bit better ....
A word about accuracy: The groups you see above are both five-shot groups taken at 100 yards with the original open iron sights on this old gun. The 2400 load group is 3 & 1//4" and the SR4759 group is 3 & 3/4". Now I know that there are fellows who can't sleep at night if they can't put five rounds into 3/4" at 100 yards and who would consider these groups jaw-dropping bad. Well, let me say, boys, that there can be a lot more to shooting and hunting than putting bullets into 3/4" at 100 yards. If I can't hunt and shoot with a old classic gun, then it's hardly worth doing. This old '73 has rifling that is half worn away and there are several pitted areas up the bore. The bullets I shoot are plain base cast. I could use gas checks or filler to improve these groups down to probably 2", but I like to make cheap bullets and I don't know if I'll always be able to get gas checks. I also love this old rifle, so the challenge was to get the best accuracy I could with the the criteria I impose upon myself. I will be hunting at less than one hundred yards, and the shot will be most likely around 50 yards, judging from past experience where I hunt. So a five shot group of 3 & 1/4" at 100 yards will allow me to put a bullet right exactly where it is going to count. Last fall, I used an old 44-40 to put venison in the freezer, now it is the 38-40's turn.
There was a long time when I thought little of the 38-40 cartridge, preferring its slightly bigger brother, the 44-40. But after getting my first 38-40 (originally known as the 38 W.C.F.) in the form of an old Winchester Model 1892 made in 1913, it rapidly became one of my favourite cartridges. Then I began to read of those who had taken many and large Whitetail with this classic cartridge, and I realized that I had badly underestimated it. It is coming with me this fall to make venison one more time.
I like handling this old rifle, often taking it down just to hold it in my hands and feel the history silently spoken in its appearance. Here's a photo of the old timer getting some attention ....
I wanted to develop a smokeless load for this rifle that would duplicate original black powder ballistics, but at a pressure that was less than or equal to black powder and give me decent accuracy. Of the powders I have on hand, these criteria restricted me to Alliant 2400, IMR SR4759 and Accurate 5744. My trials with 5744 ended abruptly after my first trip to the range ...... the pressure was simply too low to properly bump up the soft-cast bullet, giving five-shot groups at 100 yards that were 7 or 8 inches. I noted that the faster the burn rate, the better the accuracy. Both 2400 and 4759 gave decent five shot groups just over 3" at 100 yards, but after quite a few trips to the range as I tweaked the load to give me in the low 1,300's fps, it became evident that 2400 had a slight edge over SR4759 due to its slightly faster burn rate. Both loads, however, give decent accuracy so they will both go down in my books as final loads, but I will be loading the 38-40 using 2400 from now on.
My final 'Pet Load' for the Winchester 1873, 38 WCF (aka 38-40) is 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 under a 188 grain RCBS cast bullet for 1,320 fps. Here's the final 100 yard, five shot group I shot at lunch time today ....
My 'back-up' load for the Winchester 1873 38-40 is 17.5 grains of IMR SR4759 under the same cast bullet for 1,328 fps. Here's the final 100 yard, five shot group I shot late last week before I tweaked the front sight to center things up a bit better ....
A word about accuracy: The groups you see above are both five-shot groups taken at 100 yards with the original open iron sights on this old gun. The 2400 load group is 3 & 1//4" and the SR4759 group is 3 & 3/4". Now I know that there are fellows who can't sleep at night if they can't put five rounds into 3/4" at 100 yards and who would consider these groups jaw-dropping bad. Well, let me say, boys, that there can be a lot more to shooting and hunting than putting bullets into 3/4" at 100 yards. If I can't hunt and shoot with a old classic gun, then it's hardly worth doing. This old '73 has rifling that is half worn away and there are several pitted areas up the bore. The bullets I shoot are plain base cast. I could use gas checks or filler to improve these groups down to probably 2", but I like to make cheap bullets and I don't know if I'll always be able to get gas checks. I also love this old rifle, so the challenge was to get the best accuracy I could with the the criteria I impose upon myself. I will be hunting at less than one hundred yards, and the shot will be most likely around 50 yards, judging from past experience where I hunt. So a five shot group of 3 & 1/4" at 100 yards will allow me to put a bullet right exactly where it is going to count. Last fall, I used an old 44-40 to put venison in the freezer, now it is the 38-40's turn.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
You should be darn proud of that, as I expect you are!
NRA Life Member
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2427
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:37 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Great thread and great photo! I have a 1893 38-40 model 1873 Winchester. It is fun to shoot and accurate. I really like both the 44-40 and 38-40 cartridges. I have more rifles, carbines, and SAs in those calibers than any others. I do have three 45 Colts that I forgot. I'm going out to the ranch tomorrow. Wish me luck. There is not much sign yet so I'm not to optimistic.
"That'll Be The Day"
- bmtshooter
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:26 pm
- Location: North Central Texas
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Great rifle .... great shooting. My eyes don't see well enough to shoot groups like that at a hundred yards. 50 to 75 is more realistic for hunting anyway. Thanks for the pictures.
NRA life member
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27903
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Kirk -
Excellent post and report, as always. I like your criteria too. If the excement hits the spinning blade, it will be nice to have things as simple as possible!
Excellent post and report, as always. I like your criteria too. If the excement hits the spinning blade, it will be nice to have things as simple as possible!
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6972
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:52 pm
- Location: Ridgefield WA. USA
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Good job!! Nice rifle.
- Old Savage
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 16739
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
- Location: Southern California
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Nice work Kirk. You work with the old ones and I will shoot the new ones and if you ever get down here you can shoot them too.
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:53 pm
- Location: Surrey, England
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Excellent report as usual Kirk, and a very timely one for me. I had decided to retire my 1890 vintage 1873 in 38-40 from CAS competition and use it only for historic breechloader matches, so I need to develop a better load than the " as much 777 as will go in" I currently use. I plan to go to the range later this week with loads in 3F BP, 777 and 5744 but now I shall add some 2400 loads. At present the only 0.401 bullets I have are 190 grain Big Lubes, which are not renowned for longer range accuracy but at least I can get some relative velocity data even if the groups are rubbish.
Perry Owens
Perry Owens
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate Watson."
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:35 am
- Location: Queensland Australia
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Excellent post Kirk, many thanks, all very interesting. The rifle is a beauty. Looks like the muzzle is fine, only the 73 muskets had a crowned muzzle as far as I am aware, strange logic from Winchester at the time I guess. 2400 is my favourite powder in the 73. Enjoy sir, and yes some of my old rifles just need to be held too, trouble is they cannot talk.
Kind regards
Bob
Kind regards
Bob
GUN CONTROL IS HITTING YOUR TARGET
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Good read and a fine old rifle.
Rob
Rob
Proud to be Christian American and not ashamed of being white.
May your rifle always shoot straight, your mag never run dry, you always have one more round than you have adversaries, and your good mate always be there to watch your back.
Because I can!
Never grow a wishbone where a backbone ought to be.
May your rifle always shoot straight, your mag never run dry, you always have one more round than you have adversaries, and your good mate always be there to watch your back.
Because I can!
Never grow a wishbone where a backbone ought to be.
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Pretty great story!
Makes me wanna work up a load for mine, too.
Thanks for giving me a lead.
Oklahoma Dee
Makes me wanna work up a load for mine, too.
Thanks for giving me a lead.
Oklahoma Dee
FAMILY
NRA LIFE
TSRA
SASS
HGCA
Life is Grand! Live it!
OKDEE
NRA LIFE
TSRA
SASS
HGCA
Life is Grand! Live it!
OKDEE
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
great report - great groups - great rifle - nice photos - and thanks!
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
I think you should have enough photos of enough guns and enough loading data/experience to write a book...
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Well done, as usual, Kirk. I killed a couple of nice Blacktails with my old .38 WCF '73 carbine. You won't have any problem bagging a couple of Whitetails with that rifle.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Kirk...as always exellent report together with pictures.
Like Hobie wrote, why not a book...
Stefan
Sweden
Like Hobie wrote, why not a book...
Stefan
Sweden
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:08 pm
- Location: AZ/MT
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Very interesting and entertaining article Kirk. I always enjoy reading your posts and seeing the photos. I've got an old 73 in 32-20 that I should probably send to you. I've shot it only a very few times and concluded it was too inaccurate. Perhaps an incorrect conclusion on my part.
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
I'd be happy to see what sort of load I could work out for it.Batman1939 wrote:Very interesting and entertaining article Kirk. I always enjoy reading your posts and seeing the photos. I've got an old 73 in 32-20 that I should probably send to you. I've shot it only a very few times and concluded it was too inaccurate. Perhaps an incorrect conclusion on my part.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
GREAT POST KIRK...
I THINK I AM GOING TO TRY YOUR PET LOAD
IN MY ORIGINAL 92 IN 38-40.....JUST TO SE HOW
IT COMPARES TO MY UNIQUE LOADS...
THATS ONE FINE LOOK'N SHOOTER....I MEAN THE GUN...
I THINK I AM GOING TO TRY YOUR PET LOAD
IN MY ORIGINAL 92 IN 38-40.....JUST TO SE HOW
IT COMPARES TO MY UNIQUE LOADS...
THATS ONE FINE LOOK'N SHOOTER....I MEAN THE GUN...
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2569
- Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Very Cool!
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
WIL TERRY
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Kirk,
NEAT! It is Very gratifying to make a vintage rifle talk once again!
Thank you for sharing your story.
One question if I might:
Are you using toilet paper over the 2400 loads?
w30wcf
NEAT! It is Very gratifying to make a vintage rifle talk once again!
Thank you for sharing your story.
One question if I might:
Are you using toilet paper over the 2400 loads?
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:16 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
KirkD,
You have mentioned that Blue Dot had a burning rate that very closely matched BP. For the 38-40 in an 1873, what kind of a load would you start with using this powder?
ole pizen slinger
You have mentioned that Blue Dot had a burning rate that very closely matched BP. For the 38-40 in an 1873, what kind of a load would you start with using this powder?
ole pizen slinger
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20864
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Another great report, Kirk. And, in my book, 3" is certainly minute of deer accuracy!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
w30wcf: I have not tried toilet paper in these loads. I wanted to see if I could get decent accuracy without the toilet paper, since it would save me a lot of time if I can get by without having to use it.
ole pizen slinger: I'd love to try Blue Dot, but do not have any unfortunately. Its DPI and RQ is higher than 2400, so I would start with a much lower load. I notice that Ken Waters lists 9 grains of Herco under a cast bullet for 1,362 fps as safe for an original Model 1873. Now Herco has a faster burn rate than Blue Dot, so I might start with 9 grains of Blue Dot and see what it chronographed at. Then I would work up to an original BP velocity of just under 1,300 fps., knowing that I should end up with virtually identical pressure curves between Blue Dot and FFFg, all other things being equal.
ole pizen slinger: I'd love to try Blue Dot, but do not have any unfortunately. Its DPI and RQ is higher than 2400, so I would start with a much lower load. I notice that Ken Waters lists 9 grains of Herco under a cast bullet for 1,362 fps as safe for an original Model 1873. Now Herco has a faster burn rate than Blue Dot, so I might start with 9 grains of Blue Dot and see what it chronographed at. Then I would work up to an original BP velocity of just under 1,300 fps., knowing that I should end up with virtually identical pressure curves between Blue Dot and FFFg, all other things being equal.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
That's really neat, Kirk. One of these days I need to get me one of those......
Old Law Dawg
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Well I reckon you been bragged on enough now . So I'll just say I LIKED ALL.
,,,,,,,,,,Mutt,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,Mutt,,,,,,,
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Once again, nicely done. I may bump my loads up another .5 grains to match yours and see if I can improve groups.
Ed
Ed
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1194
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:44 am
- Location: southwest Florida
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Great post. I am glad you found an easy load for that fine old gun.
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
but, what about the rifle?KirkD wrote: Here's a photo of the old timer getting some attention ....
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
No, no. The guy in the picture is the Old Geezer. The rifle is the Old Timer. Maybe I should have said, 'Here's a photo of the Old Timer getting some tender lovin' from the Old Geezer'.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:53 pm
- Location: Surrey, England
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Went to the range today to try out my new prescription shooting glasses and chrono a few 38-40 loads, including Kirk's pet load.
The only 38-40 bullets I have at present are the 180 grain BigLubes, designed for black powder.
13.5 grains of 2400 gave me a mean of 1102ft/sec with a standard deviation of 27ft/sec
17 grains of 5744 gave me a mean of 985 ft/sec with a standard deviation of 25 ft/sec
Here's where it all went pear-shaped - Triple 7, volume equivalent of 35 grains of 3F BP gave me a mean of 916 ft/sec with a standard deviation of 70 ft/sec. Clearly there needs to be some work done here. Maybe it needs to be compressed?
Groups with the 2400 loads at 50 yds were very poor:
While I am no Kirk D at shooting groups I had 10 minutes earlier shot a 1in 50 yd group with my 0.357 Uberti SRC so I don't think this is down to me. My chronograph, which was 20ft downrange was splattered with bullet lube and on examining the targets I found small pieces of lube stuck to them, so it seems that the BigLube bullets are shedding lube all the way downrange. Think my next step will be to get a more conventional mould to try.
On the plus side my new shooting glasses were fine. Wore them for 4 hours and they never hurt my ears and were visually first class.
It was also a beautiful day and I had the whole range complex to myself.
The range parking lot today - just me.
Perry Owens
The only 38-40 bullets I have at present are the 180 grain BigLubes, designed for black powder.
13.5 grains of 2400 gave me a mean of 1102ft/sec with a standard deviation of 27ft/sec
17 grains of 5744 gave me a mean of 985 ft/sec with a standard deviation of 25 ft/sec
Here's where it all went pear-shaped - Triple 7, volume equivalent of 35 grains of 3F BP gave me a mean of 916 ft/sec with a standard deviation of 70 ft/sec. Clearly there needs to be some work done here. Maybe it needs to be compressed?
Groups with the 2400 loads at 50 yds were very poor:
While I am no Kirk D at shooting groups I had 10 minutes earlier shot a 1in 50 yd group with my 0.357 Uberti SRC so I don't think this is down to me. My chronograph, which was 20ft downrange was splattered with bullet lube and on examining the targets I found small pieces of lube stuck to them, so it seems that the BigLube bullets are shedding lube all the way downrange. Think my next step will be to get a more conventional mould to try.
On the plus side my new shooting glasses were fine. Wore them for 4 hours and they never hurt my ears and were visually first class.
It was also a beautiful day and I had the whole range complex to myself.
The range parking lot today - just me.
Perry Owens
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate Watson."
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Very interesting. Your load, with the same 13.5 grains of 2400 is 200 fps slower. If you bump up your 2400 load a bit to get 1,300 fps, your groups may tighten up due to the higher pressure doing a better job of bumping up the bullet (assuming it is a soft cast bullet). How were the 5744 groups and the 777 groups compared to the poor 2400 groups?
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:53 pm
- Location: Surrey, England
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
The 5744 groups were about the same as the 2400. The 777 rounds would not group at all - I could put 2 shots into one inch and the next would be 8in away in a random direction. As I recall, the best groups I can get with this gun are with 3F BP. With that I can put the first 3 shots into 2in at 100 yds then accuracy goes south as the fouling hardens in the pits in the barrel, so I think you are right about insufficient pressure to bump up the bullet. I will load some more 2400 rounds, increasing the charge in small increments. Bullet alloy is currently 20:1KirkD wrote:Very interesting. Your load, with the same 13.5 grains of 2400 is 200 fps slower. If you bump up your 2400 load a bit to get 1,300 fps, your groups may tighten up due to the higher pressure doing a better job of bumping up the bullet (assuming it is a soft cast bullet). How were the 5744 groups and the 777 groups compared to the poor 2400 groups?
Perry Owens
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate Watson."
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Okay, given that additional info, I'm more convinced than ever that your loads simply are not generating enough pressure to obdurate the bullet. You need more powder in them cases.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- ollogger
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2807
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:47 pm
- Location: Wheatland Wyoming
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Hi Kirk,
Computers are a bit greek to me but I am learning.
However Guns are another story.
Nice 73! Liked your post on the rifle.
I have a 73 also.. 73 in a 32-20, I load 12.5 grains 4198imr
90 grain lead, I have had no problems with this what so ever.
Also I have used 14 grains rl7 with the same bullet, shoots about 3 inches at 50 yards. I have taken some coyotes and prairie dogs with it and its a real blast! I have shot thousands of rounds with these loads!
I am wondering what you and others think about using these slower burniing powders, pressure is low, but seals the case when fired.
I like what I am doing! I would enjoy hearing your thoughts.
Thanks from a newbie on this list!
Diameter of my bullet is 314!
It would not shoot a 312 diameter at all, It threw it sideways!
Greetings from Wheatland Wyoming!
Brad!
- O.S.O.K.
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 5533
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:15 pm
- Location: Deep in the Piney Woods of Mississippi
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Way cool. Thanks for the report and congrats! Makes me want to sell oh, about 4 other guns and get one of those!
NRA Endowment Life
Phi Kappa Sigma, Alpha Phi 83 "Skulls"
OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
Phi Kappa Sigma, Alpha Phi 83 "Skulls"
OCS, 120th MP Battalion, MSSG
MOLON LABE!
- KirkD
- Desktop Artiste
- Posts: 4406
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 am
- Location: Central Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Final loads for my old '73 (photos)
Brad, I'm away from home right now, but as I recall, my first main load for the 32-20 used IMR 4198. Slower powders work good in bottle neck cases, as the bottle neck raises the pressure for better burning. I can't recall how much IMR 4198 I used ..... I'll have to wait until I get home to check my records.ollogger wrote: I am wondering what you and others think about using these slower burniing powders, pressure is low, but seals the case when fired.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/