45---long---colt

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:27 pm

YAWN

*scratch*

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:57 pm

Griff, my Rossi has .45 Colt on the barrel.

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:15 pm

I don't want to get anyones undies in a twist, besides there are folks who do it so much better than me.

And now for a word from our sponsor

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45 (long) Colt in
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Those that voraciously disagree with the word ‘LONG’ in the phrase 45 Long Colt............don’t e-mail me.....my spiritual brother (for almost a lifetime), and dear friend, John Taffin, has been trying to change my position for decades....and John may be correct, as all of you may. But in this, I am unrepentant...why? Because among other reasons, I have a full box of 45 Short Colt ammo produced in 1883 and that got me to really investigate! Not Schofield...but “45 Short Colt” Ammunition.....(230 grain bullet/hollow base/28 grains B.P.) People back then called them LONG or SHORT Colts when making purchases......so do I today.

Thank you Paco for those kind words.
We now return to our regular program

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:17 pm

Does that mean that the 45 Schofield is the 45 Medium Sized Colt?

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:22 pm

Paco's argument is historical but TERRY'S is "more historical" going to an earlier date if you will.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:26 pm

.45 Colt!

Army I believe screwed that one up back in the day cause of their .45 Schofield

When the supply guys first started ordering supplies they were saying .45 Colt?? for their Schofields.When they received the ammo the LONG .45 of course wouldnt fit??????(though the .45 Schofield would fit in either)
To avoid this issue they just started adding the word "long" to avoid future issues.

Myself-------------.45 COLT
Ah heck, only the .45 Colt but call it this.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06 ... olt_45.jpg

Nope---even that won't work cause the 12oz is a Short and the 40oz is a Long

After this thread I need the 40oz----------Long

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:51 pm

Now madman 4570 - that's just nasty! Have you ever actually drank one of those

I did when I was young and stupid. (I can't remember where my pukey smiley is)

I used to be ignorant and confused. It confused me even more years ago when I was gun shopping and the Ruger Vaquero I ended up buying was marked simply .45 Cal. Now I love to load for and shoot my .45 Colt Vaquero and .45 Colt Win 1892. Even though neither are true reproductions, I love the way they look and shoot (and strong, too)

A while back I was looking at a repro (Uberti??) and it was marked .45 LC on the barrel. I just shook my head and put it down. If I'm going to the trouble of buying a repro, why put the LC misnomer on it?

I'm with Joe Miller.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:43 pm

Rugers can be had with two cylinders .45 ACP and .45 Colt. so the .45 cal is I think to allow for that.

Poohgyrr · Post by **Poohgyrr** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:01 am

Hmmm...

How many will argue with my loading these rounds into my S&W revolver pistol? Many of the young'ns seem to believe that revolvers aren't pistols....

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:22 am

Old Savage wrote:Rugers can be had with two cylinders .45 ACP and .45 Colt. so the .45 cal is I think to allow for that.

My part-timers got me. Yes, I was looking to buy a Blackhawk with both cylinders, but the dealer that stocked the model I wanted had gone to a different gun show that weekend. So I bought a Vaquero instead. Great revolver, I just need to tune it. It shoots left.

Now I'll have to find me a model 22 of 1917 to satisfy my strange .45acp revolver longings

(used to be cheap to shoot .45acp, now not so much unless you cast and load yourself.)

Van Morgan · Post by **Van Morgan** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:52 am

What is good enough for Paco is good enough for me. Besides, it is his name on this forum.

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:56 pm

I'm with Buck! Is this really worth the band width? I carry a .45 Colt Mountain gun, and have bought .45 LC ammo, go figure. Call it what you want it still is a darn effective cartridge.

Let's git on to sumin' fun.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 pm

J Miller wrote:
Chas. wrote:And yet another opinion:

J Miller wrote:Never was any "long" in the proper cartridge name and should never be....
Joe
From the Colt website "Colt revolvers come in six standard calibers..."
Chas.,
Terry is right about Colt... Joe

Oh, boy... Here we go again!

Chas. · Post by **Chas.** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:08 pm

Not me. I'm shooting .22 Rifle (as opposed to .22 Long Rifle).

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:14 pm

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:28 pm

Van Morgan wrote: And I learned my rebelliousness in Central Illinois. Class of '77 EIU.

Yeah... that's why my I thought my uncle was an alumnus of Penn State, only to learn that it was State Pen.

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:01 am

From a thread on the Colt forum:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2

They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:51 am

Since the manufacturer has labeled them both ways at different times I suppose anyone is free to use either name. I once had a Ruger 77 marked 7mm Express/.280 Rem.. I have a BLR marked .243 Only but ....... I shoot .243 Win in it and it works fine. So, I am sure you fellows can shoot 45 Long Colt in your 45 Colts and it will work fine, even Paco, wonderful fellow that he is. But, as TERRY says it was the .45 Colt first.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:07 am

trapper45 wrote:From a thread on the Colt forum:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2

They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.

Rats, I'm not a member of the Colt forum so I can't see the pics. Any way we could convince you to post the pics here?
Those wax bullet cartridges, were they brass cases or plastic and what was the head stamp on the cases?

Joe

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:29 am

Old Savage wrote:Paco's argument is historical but TERRY'S is "more historical" going to an earlier date if you will.

Since TERRY was there when it was named...

C'mon! Most of you were thinking that at least....

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:25 pm

Can't get to the pix right now--not much of a techie.

(One would think that if one could post them on the Colt forum a couple of years ago, one would still be able to post them here, but one's minimal computer skills seem to have become even more minimal. Will try more later. If anyone else is able to grab the pix from that thread on the Colt forum please feel free to have at it.)

But the headstamp on the red plastic cases is a non-committal 'Colt .45' over 'Wax.'

Hankster · Post by **Hankster** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:47 pm

Whether it says .45 or .45LC on the barrel.. when you load it up, and pull the trigger, does it make a hole in the target?? Then Who cares "whatchacallit"??? Now are we going to get into the .38 special .38 S&W Special ."38 COLT Special" debate next?? WHEW!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:12 pm

trapper45 wrote:Can't get to the pix right now--not much of a techie.

(One would think that if one could post them on the Colt forum a couple of years ago, one would still be able to post them here, but one's minimal computer skills seem to have become even more minimal. Will try more later. If anyone else is able to grab the pix from that thread on the Colt forum please feel free to have at it.)

But the headstamp on the red plastic cases is a non-committal 'Colt .45' over 'Wax.'

Boy I'd love to have some of those in my collection. Right now I have some RWS "I think" bright red plastic .45 Colt cases that are shot shells. They have no head stamp at all, but are primed with a shotgun primer and the cardboard wad is marked "9".

Joe

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:14 pm

Well the long and short of it is (pun intended) everyone knows what folks mean if they use the Long bit or not.

Bit like 244 Rem/6mm Rem express and 6.5x55 or 6&1/2 Swede.

Never mind, just keep shooting

Nath.

edwardyoung · Post by **edwardyoung** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:05 pm

J Miller wrote:
trapper45 wrote:From a thread on the Colt forum:

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2

They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.
Rats, I'm not a member of the Colt forum so I can't see the pics. Any way we could convince you to post the pics here?
Those wax bullet cartridges, were they brass cases or plastic and what was the head stamp on the cases?

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:26 pm

edwardyoung,

Thanks for posting those pics. Very interesting. I've posted them to my photo file.

Joe

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:50 pm

Now those pics make things really interesting.
If the manufacturer of the 45 doesn't know what to call the 45 what hope have the rest of us got.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:05 pm

gundownunder wrote:Now those pics make things really interesting.
If the manufacturer of the 45 doesn't know what to call the 45 what hope have the rest of us got.

Marketing folks... just dream up the darndest things to make a sale.

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:55 pm

Thanks very much for posting those photos. I think I passsed a brainstone trying to figure out how to do it.

An interesting thing about that box is the wording on the text panel: 'adapted for use in all revolvers using .45 Long Colt ammunition.' This from Colt's, no less. Ah, well . . . .

And it's still going strong. By whatever nomenclature, that's an impressive accomplishment for a round dating from the midpoint of Queen Victoria's reign.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:39 am

Really who cares!
Call em fruit bars for all I care.
Long,short,medium?????????????
To each their own,whatever floats their boats!

Now why couldnt they have just had a .45 Colt BP(black powder)when smokeless powder came out adding the BP to the old powder loads ???? and .45 Colt SP for (smokeless powder)loads.
Course someone would screw that one up too.

Then again I dont know much on .45Colts either!

willygene · Post by **willygene** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:05 pm

this is why i like my 44-40 or 44wcf no arguing and it was originally chambered in rifles and revolvers, unlike the 45 whatever it ends up being.

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:04 pm

Hey Willygene, whats a 44-40? its name is 44 WCF. The 40 part is just something that another manufacturer gave to the cartridge later, a bit like the long part in 45 colt.

We need a stirring spoon smilie.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:54 pm

Yeah, the .44 WCF was also loaded as the .44-40 Marlin and the .44-40 COLT; the .44 GameGetter and a few other off-breed designations...

Some makers' guns were marked, ".44 Winchester Cartridge" and a few, just "Winchester Cartridge."

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:53 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Yeah, the .44 WCF was also loaded as the .44-40 Marlin and the .44-40 COLT; the .44 GameGetter and a few other off-breed designations...

Some makers' guns were marked, ".44 Winchester Cartridge" and a few, just "Winchester Cartridge."

And some, even from Winchester, just ".44 Cal.".

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:06 pm

I have also seen the 44WCF/44-40 head stamped 44 CLMR for
44 Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle. Lotsa names for that one.

Joe

willygene · Post by **willygene** » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:10 pm

hey look we found another caliber to pick on

everybody feel better now.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:00 pm

Ain't really picking on calibers, so much, as pointing out the absurdity of nomenclatural purism, in a field rife with exceptions.

kooz · Post by **kooz** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:00 pm

The .45 Colt (long colt whatever) was developed by Colt and the US army, the cartridge is a propriety round of Colt, the original manufacturer of the round. It is interesting to note that Colt does not sell any guns chamered in .45 Colt, ONLY in .45 Long Colt, check the website.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:10 pm

Just another sign that Colt has lost their way.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:18 pm

kooz wrote:The .45 Colt (long colt whatever) was developed by Colt and the US army, the cartridge is a propriety round of Colt, the original manufacturer of the round. It is interesting to note that Colt does not sell any guns chamered in .45 Colt, ONLY in .45 Long Colt, check the website.

What the web site says is irrelevant. I've yet to see a Colt SAA, Anaconda, or older one stamped .45 long Colt. They've all been stamped .45 Colt.

Joe

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:51 pm

In the 'for-what-it's-worth' department:

My 4-3/4-inch 3rd generation SAA barrel reads simply 'Colt Single Action Army .45'

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:55 am

trapper45 wrote:In the 'for-what-it's-worth' department:

My 4-3/4-inch 3rd generation SAA barrel reads simply 'Colt Single Action Army .45'

trapper45, You mean to say ... I'm wrong?!?!?!?! OMG

Well it's not the first time and won't be the last.

Where on the barrel is it stamped? Just curious.
My 1975 vintage Uberti Cattleman is stamped "CATTLEMAN - .45 on the top of the barrel about 3/4" forward the frame.

Joe

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:44 pm

Nope, not at all. Not saying anybody's wrong. I don't know enough to say that. But these waters will probably never run clear.

As to the markings: Yup, just 'Single Action Army .45'; L/H side of the barrel, with the '5' directly above the forward end of the cylinder base pin.

By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:52 pm

trapper45 wrote:Nope, not at all. Not saying anybody's wrong. I don't know enough to say that. But these waters will probably never run clear.

As to the markings: Yup, just 'Single Action Army .45'; L/H side of the barrel, with the '5' directly above the forward end of the cylinder base pin.

By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.

Now that is a statement I wont even try to argue with.

Joe

gak · Post by **gak** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:28 pm

trapper45 wrote: By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.

------
Hey, didn't know anyone else knew those different plane nomenclatures--nice to see! Father piloted those from time to time inbetween B-17, B-24, B-29, A-20 and later some B-50, B-36, B-47 and occasional C-97 duty (...just seeing if you're on your toes!). I say "Gooney Bird" and folks look at me like I'm a looney bird! Also flew the C-46 a few times. Sorry got OT!

Back on...it seems I hear folks I consider very erudite .45'ers say Long Colt as much as not these days, maybe by now just worn down and to avoid any confusion!

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:36 pm

wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?

here's what started all this for me recently,

P6210419.JPG

they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]

i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:51 pm

pokey wrote:wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?

here's what started all this for me recently,

P6210419.JPG
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]

i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....

Wow, those are really short. Are those examples of that .45 Cowboy Special round developed for CAS?

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:17 pm

Otto wrote:
pokey wrote:wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?

here's what started all this for me recently,

P6210419.JPG
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]

i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....
Wow, those are really short. Are those examples of that .45 Cowboy Special round developed for CAS?

nope, at least i don't think so. listed as 45 short [corto] colt.

crow · Post by **crow** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:23 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Its all about maintaining the original designation of things.

Its 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP, etc.

Now you might call the 454 Cassull a 45 Long Colt but I think Dick would get upset.

No, no, no, O.S.O.K......the 454 Cassull is really the 45/70 Short and the 45/70 is really just the 45/90 short. And of course the 45/90 is well known as the 50/90 Thin (or Jenny Krag)

Sorry could not help myself.

I have gotten used to calling it the 45 Long Colt...it's become common usage for a large number of people. I concede fully that there is no such official name but also think that there was good reason for the term to come into play and that was to make up for the short comings of quality control of ammo manufacturers.