45---long---colt
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- Levergunner 3.0
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Re: 45---long---colt
YAWN
*scratch*
*scratch*
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- Old Savage
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Re: 45---long---colt
Griff, my Rossi has .45 Colt on the barrel.
- gundownunder
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Re: 45---long---colt
I don't want to get anyones undies in a twist, besides there are folks who do it so much better than me.
And now for a word from our sponsor
A MAJOR FEATURE ARTICLE THAT WILL BE SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL
45 (long) Colt in
Leveraction Rifles
(PACO)
Those that voraciously disagree with the word ‘LONG’ in the phrase 45 Long Colt............don’t e-mail me.....my spiritual brother (for almost a lifetime), and dear friend, John Taffin, has been trying to change my position for decades....and John may be correct, as all of you may. But in this, I am unrepentant...why? Because among other reasons, I have a full box of 45 Short Colt ammo produced in 1883 and that got me to really investigate! Not Schofield...but “45 Short Colt” Ammunition.....(230 grain bullet/hollow base/28 grains B.P.) People back then called them LONG or SHORT Colts when making purchases......so do I today.
Thank you Paco for those kind words.
We now return to our regular program
And now for a word from our sponsor
A MAJOR FEATURE ARTICLE THAT WILL BE SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL
45 (long) Colt in
Leveraction Rifles
(PACO)
Those that voraciously disagree with the word ‘LONG’ in the phrase 45 Long Colt............don’t e-mail me.....my spiritual brother (for almost a lifetime), and dear friend, John Taffin, has been trying to change my position for decades....and John may be correct, as all of you may. But in this, I am unrepentant...why? Because among other reasons, I have a full box of 45 Short Colt ammo produced in 1883 and that got me to really investigate! Not Schofield...but “45 Short Colt” Ammunition.....(230 grain bullet/hollow base/28 grains B.P.) People back then called them LONG or SHORT Colts when making purchases......so do I today.
Thank you Paco for those kind words.
We now return to our regular program
Last edited by gundownunder on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bob
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Re: 45---long---colt
Does that mean that the 45 Schofield is the 45 Medium Sized Colt?
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- Old Savage
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Re: 45---long---colt
Paco's argument is historical but TERRY'S is "more historical" going to an earlier date if you will.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: 45---long---colt
.45 Colt!
Army I believe screwed that one up back in the day cause of their .45 Schofield
When the supply guys first started ordering supplies they were saying .45 Colt?? for their Schofields.When they received the ammo the LONG .45 of course wouldnt fit??????(though the .45 Schofield would fit in either)
To avoid this issue they just started adding the word "long" to avoid future issues.
Myself-------------.45 COLT
Ah heck, only the .45 Colt but call it this.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06 ... olt_45.jpg
Nope---even that won't work cause the 12oz is a Short and the 40oz is a Long
After this thread I need the 40oz----------Long
Army I believe screwed that one up back in the day cause of their .45 Schofield
When the supply guys first started ordering supplies they were saying .45 Colt?? for their Schofields.When they received the ammo the LONG .45 of course wouldnt fit??????(though the .45 Schofield would fit in either)
To avoid this issue they just started adding the word "long" to avoid future issues.
Myself-------------.45 COLT
Ah heck, only the .45 Colt but call it this.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06 ... olt_45.jpg
Nope---even that won't work cause the 12oz is a Short and the 40oz is a Long
After this thread I need the 40oz----------Long
- vancelw
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Re: 45---long---colt
Now madman 4570 - that's just nasty! Have you ever actually drank one of those I did when I was young and stupid. (I can't remember where my pukey smiley is)
I used to be ignorant and confused. It confused me even more years ago when I was gun shopping and the Ruger Vaquero I ended up buying was marked simply .45 Cal. Now I love to load for and shoot my .45 Colt Vaquero and .45 Colt Win 1892. Even though neither are true reproductions, I love the way they look and shoot (and strong, too)
A while back I was looking at a repro (Uberti??) and it was marked .45 LC on the barrel. I just shook my head and put it down. If I'm going to the trouble of buying a repro, why put the LC misnomer on it?
I'm with Joe Miller.
I used to be ignorant and confused. It confused me even more years ago when I was gun shopping and the Ruger Vaquero I ended up buying was marked simply .45 Cal. Now I love to load for and shoot my .45 Colt Vaquero and .45 Colt Win 1892. Even though neither are true reproductions, I love the way they look and shoot (and strong, too)
A while back I was looking at a repro (Uberti??) and it was marked .45 LC on the barrel. I just shook my head and put it down. If I'm going to the trouble of buying a repro, why put the LC misnomer on it?
I'm with Joe Miller.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
- Old Savage
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Re: 45---long---colt
Rugers can be had with two cylinders .45 ACP and .45 Colt. so the .45 cal is I think to allow for that.
Re: 45---long---colt
Hmmm...
How many will argue with my loading these rounds into my S&W revolver pistol? Many of the young'ns seem to believe that revolvers aren't pistols....
How many will argue with my loading these rounds into my S&W revolver pistol? Many of the young'ns seem to believe that revolvers aren't pistols....
John
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Family, blue steel & wood, hot biscuits, and fresh coffee.
Luke 22:36 Romans 12:17-21 Ephesians 4:26-32
"Life brings sorrow and joy alike. It is what a man does with them - not what they do to him - that is the true test of his mettle." T. Roosevelt
- vancelw
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Re: 45---long---colt
My part-timers got me. Yes, I was looking to buy a Blackhawk with both cylinders, but the dealer that stocked the model I wanted had gone to a different gun show that weekend. So I bought a Vaquero instead. Great revolver, I just need to tune it. It shoots left.Old Savage wrote:Rugers can be had with two cylinders .45 ACP and .45 Colt. so the .45 cal is I think to allow for that.
Now I'll have to find me a model 22 of 1917 to satisfy my strange .45acp revolver longings
(used to be cheap to shoot .45acp, now not so much unless you cast and load yourself.)
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Re: 45---long---colt
What is good enough for Paco is good enough for me. Besides, it is his name on this forum.
- Pathfinder09
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Re: 45---long---colt
I'm with Buck! Is this really worth the band width? I carry a .45 Colt Mountain gun, and have bought .45 LC ammo, go figure. Call it what you want it still is a darn effective cartridge.
Let's git on to sumin' fun.
Let's git on to sumin' fun.
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Re: 45---long---colt
Oh, boy... Here we go again!J Miller wrote:Chas.,Chas. wrote:And yet another opinion:
From the Colt website "Colt revolvers come in six standard calibers..."J Miller wrote:Never was any "long" in the proper cartridge name and should never be....
Joe
Terry is right about Colt... Joe
Re: 45---long---colt
Not me. I'm shooting .22 Rifle (as opposed to .22 Long Rifle).
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Re: 45---long---colt
Yeah... that's why my I thought my uncle was an alumnus of Penn State, only to learn that it was State Pen.Van Morgan wrote: And I learned my rebelliousness in Central Illinois. Class of '77 EIU.
Re: 45---long---colt
From a thread on the Colt forum:
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2
They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2
They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.
- Old Savage
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Re: 45---long---colt
Since the manufacturer has labeled them both ways at different times I suppose anyone is free to use either name. I once had a Ruger 77 marked 7mm Express/.280 Rem.. I have a BLR marked .243 Only but ....... I shoot .243 Win in it and it works fine. So, I am sure you fellows can shoot 45 Long Colt in your 45 Colts and it will work fine, even Paco, wonderful fellow that he is. But, as TERRY says it was the .45 Colt first.
- J Miller
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Re: 45---long---colt
Rats, I'm not a member of the Colt forum so I can't see the pics. Any way we could convince you to post the pics here?trapper45 wrote:From a thread on the Colt forum:
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2
They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.
Those wax bullet cartridges, were they brass cases or plastic and what was the head stamp on the cases?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: 45---long---colt
Since TERRY was there when it was named...Old Savage wrote:Paco's argument is historical but TERRY'S is "more historical" going to an earlier date if you will.
C'mon! Most of you were thinking that at least....
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
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-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: 45---long---colt
Can't get to the pix right now--not much of a techie.
(One would think that if one could post them on the Colt forum a couple of years ago, one would still be able to post them here, but one's minimal computer skills seem to have become even more minimal. Will try more later. If anyone else is able to grab the pix from that thread on the Colt forum please feel free to have at it.)
But the headstamp on the red plastic cases is a non-committal 'Colt .45' over 'Wax.'
(One would think that if one could post them on the Colt forum a couple of years ago, one would still be able to post them here, but one's minimal computer skills seem to have become even more minimal. Will try more later. If anyone else is able to grab the pix from that thread on the Colt forum please feel free to have at it.)
But the headstamp on the red plastic cases is a non-committal 'Colt .45' over 'Wax.'
Re: 45---long---colt
Whether it says .45 or .45LC on the barrel.. when you load it up, and pull the trigger, does it make a hole in the target?? Then Who cares "whatchacallit"??? Now are we going to get into the .38 special .38 S&W Special ."38 COLT Special" debate next?? WHEW!
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Re: 45---long---colt
Boy I'd love to have some of those in my collection. Right now I have some RWS "I think" bright red plastic .45 Colt cases that are shot shells. They have no head stamp at all, but are primed with a shotgun primer and the cardboard wad is marked "9".trapper45 wrote:Can't get to the pix right now--not much of a techie.
(One would think that if one could post them on the Colt forum a couple of years ago, one would still be able to post them here, but one's minimal computer skills seem to have become even more minimal. Will try more later. If anyone else is able to grab the pix from that thread on the Colt forum please feel free to have at it.)
But the headstamp on the red plastic cases is a non-committal 'Colt .45' over 'Wax.'
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: 45---long---colt
Well the long and short of it is (pun intended) everyone knows what folks mean if they use the Long bit or not.
Bit like 244 Rem/6mm Rem express and 6.5x55 or 6&1/2 Swede.
Never mind, just keep shooting
Nath.
Bit like 244 Rem/6mm Rem express and 6.5x55 or 6&1/2 Swede.
Never mind, just keep shooting
Nath.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
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Re: 45---long---colt
J Miller wrote:Rats, I'm not a member of the Colt forum so I can't see the pics. Any way we could convince you to post the pics here?trapper45 wrote:From a thread on the Colt forum:
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthr ... 978&page=2
They're wax bullets, but the labelling on the box is very interesting.
Those wax bullet cartridges, were they brass cases or plastic and what was the head stamp on the cases?
Joe
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Re: 45---long---colt
edwardyoung,
Thanks for posting those pics. Very interesting. I've posted them to my photo file.
Joe
Thanks for posting those pics. Very interesting. I've posted them to my photo file.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- gundownunder
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Re: 45---long---colt
Now those pics make things really interesting.
If the manufacturer of the 45 doesn't know what to call the 45 what hope have the rest of us got.
If the manufacturer of the 45 doesn't know what to call the 45 what hope have the rest of us got.
Bob
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Re: 45---long---colt
Marketing folks... just dream up the darndest things to make a sale.gundownunder wrote:Now those pics make things really interesting.
If the manufacturer of the 45 doesn't know what to call the 45 what hope have the rest of us got.
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
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Re: 45---long---colt
Thanks very much for posting those photos. I think I passsed a brainstone trying to figure out how to do it.
An interesting thing about that box is the wording on the text panel: 'adapted for use in all revolvers using .45 Long Colt ammunition.' This from Colt's, no less. Ah, well . . . .
And it's still going strong. By whatever nomenclature, that's an impressive accomplishment for a round dating from the midpoint of Queen Victoria's reign.
An interesting thing about that box is the wording on the text panel: 'adapted for use in all revolvers using .45 Long Colt ammunition.' This from Colt's, no less. Ah, well . . . .
And it's still going strong. By whatever nomenclature, that's an impressive accomplishment for a round dating from the midpoint of Queen Victoria's reign.
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Re: 45---long---colt
Really who cares!
Call em fruit bars for all I care.
Long,short,medium?????????????
To each their own,whatever floats their boats!
Now why couldnt they have just had a .45 Colt BP(black powder)when smokeless powder came out adding the BP to the old powder loads ???? and .45 Colt SP for (smokeless powder)loads.
Course someone would screw that one up too.
Then again I dont know much on .45Colts either!
Call em fruit bars for all I care.
Long,short,medium?????????????
To each their own,whatever floats their boats!
Now why couldnt they have just had a .45 Colt BP(black powder)when smokeless powder came out adding the BP to the old powder loads ???? and .45 Colt SP for (smokeless powder)loads.
Course someone would screw that one up too.
Then again I dont know much on .45Colts either!
Re: 45---long---colt
this is why i like my 44-40 or 44wcf no arguing and it was originally chambered in rifles and revolvers, unlike the 45 whatever it ends up being.
- gundownunder
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Re: 45---long---colt
Hey Willygene, whats a 44-40? its name is 44 WCF. The 40 part is just something that another manufacturer gave to the cartridge later, a bit like the long part in 45 colt.
We need a stirring spoon smilie.
We need a stirring spoon smilie.
Bob
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- Buck Elliott
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Re: 45---long---colt
Yeah, the .44 WCF was also loaded as the .44-40 Marlin and the .44-40 COLT; the .44 GameGetter and a few other off-breed designations...
Some makers' guns were marked, ".44 Winchester Cartridge" and a few, just "Winchester Cartridge."
Some makers' guns were marked, ".44 Winchester Cartridge" and a few, just "Winchester Cartridge."
Regards
Buck
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Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
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Re: 45---long---colt
And some, even from Winchester, just ".44 Cal.".Buck Elliott wrote:Yeah, the .44 WCF was also loaded as the .44-40 Marlin and the .44-40 COLT; the .44 GameGetter and a few other off-breed designations...
Some makers' guns were marked, ".44 Winchester Cartridge" and a few, just "Winchester Cartridge."
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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Re: 45---long---colt
I have also seen the 44WCF/44-40 head stamped 44 CLMR for
44 Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle. Lotsa names for that one.
Joe
44 Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle. Lotsa names for that one.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: 45---long---colt
hey look we found another caliber to pick on everybody feel better now.
- Buck Elliott
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Re: 45---long---colt
Ain't really picking on calibers, so much, as pointing out the absurdity of nomenclatural purism, in a field rife with exceptions.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Re: 45---long---colt
The .45 Colt (long colt whatever) was developed by Colt and the US army, the cartridge is a propriety round of Colt, the original manufacturer of the round. It is interesting to note that Colt does not sell any guns chamered in .45 Colt, ONLY in .45 Long Colt, check the website.
- Old Savage
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Re: 45---long---colt
Just another sign that Colt has lost their way.
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Re: 45---long---colt
What the web site says is irrelevant. I've yet to see a Colt SAA, Anaconda, or older one stamped .45 long Colt. They've all been stamped .45 Colt.kooz wrote:The .45 Colt (long colt whatever) was developed by Colt and the US army, the cartridge is a propriety round of Colt, the original manufacturer of the round. It is interesting to note that Colt does not sell any guns chamered in .45 Colt, ONLY in .45 Long Colt, check the website.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: 45---long---colt
In the 'for-what-it's-worth' department:
My 4-3/4-inch 3rd generation SAA barrel reads simply 'Colt Single Action Army .45'
My 4-3/4-inch 3rd generation SAA barrel reads simply 'Colt Single Action Army .45'
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Re: 45---long---colt
trapper45, You mean to say ... I'm wrong?!?!?!?! OMG Well it's not the first time and won't be the last.trapper45 wrote:In the 'for-what-it's-worth' department:
My 4-3/4-inch 3rd generation SAA barrel reads simply 'Colt Single Action Army .45'
Where on the barrel is it stamped? Just curious.
My 1975 vintage Uberti Cattleman is stamped "CATTLEMAN - .45 on the top of the barrel about 3/4" forward the frame.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: 45---long---colt
Nope, not at all. Not saying anybody's wrong. I don't know enough to say that. But these waters will probably never run clear.
As to the markings: Yup, just 'Single Action Army .45'; L/H side of the barrel, with the '5' directly above the forward end of the cylinder base pin.
By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.
As to the markings: Yup, just 'Single Action Army .45'; L/H side of the barrel, with the '5' directly above the forward end of the cylinder base pin.
By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.
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Re: 45---long---colt
trapper45 wrote:Nope, not at all. Not saying anybody's wrong. I don't know enough to say that. But these waters will probably never run clear.
As to the markings: Yup, just 'Single Action Army .45'; L/H side of the barrel, with the '5' directly above the forward end of the cylinder base pin.
By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.
Now that is a statement I wont even try to argue with.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: 45---long---colt
------trapper45 wrote: By whatever sobriquet, it's a great round. Sort of like DC-3, C-47, Skytrain, Gooney Bird, Dakota--by whatever handle it's referred to, it's known instantly by anybody anywhere as a venerable performer, and still as robust and capable as it ever was.
Hey, didn't know anyone else knew those different plane nomenclatures--nice to see! Father piloted those from time to time inbetween B-17, B-24, B-29, A-20 and later some B-50, B-36, B-47 and occasional C-97 duty (...just seeing if you're on your toes!). I say "Gooney Bird" and folks look at me like I'm a looney bird! Also flew the C-46 a few times. Sorry got OT!
Back on...it seems I hear folks I consider very erudite .45'ers say Long Colt as much as not these days, maybe by now just worn down and to avoid any confusion!
Re: 45---long---colt
wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?
here's what started all this for me recently,
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]
i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?
here's what started all this for me recently,
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]
i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....
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careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
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Re: 45---long---colt
Wow, those are really short. Are those examples of that .45 Cowboy Special round developed for CAS?pokey wrote:wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?
here's what started all this for me recently,
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]
i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....
"...In this present crisis, government isn't the solution to the problem; government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
"...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Declaration of Independence
"...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." Declaration of Independence
Re: 45---long---colt
nope, at least i don't think so. listed as 45 short [corto] colt.Otto wrote:Wow, those are really short. Are those examples of that .45 Cowboy Special round developed for CAS?pokey wrote:wow!
can i kick over a hornets nest, or what?
here's what started all this for me recently,
they claim these are for an 1868 adams revolver.[sportsman's guide]
i was always told, they can't be "longs" cuz there was never a short, well....
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
Re: 45---long---colt
No, no, no, O.S.O.K......the 454 Cassull is really the 45/70 Short and the 45/70 is really just the 45/90 short. And of course the 45/90 is well known as the 50/90 Thin (or Jenny Krag)O.S.O.K. wrote:Its all about maintaining the original designation of things.
Its 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP, etc.
Now you might call the 454 Cassull a 45 Long Colt but I think Dick would get upset.
Sorry could not help myself.
I have gotten used to calling it the 45 Long Colt...it's become common usage for a large number of people. I concede fully that there is no such official name but also think that there was good reason for the term to come into play and that was to make up for the short comings of quality control of ammo manufacturers.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
-Benjamin Franklin
-Benjamin Franklin