9 gr. of Unique for Rossi's and SAA?

[zack coyote]

Gentlemen, whenever I have a gun question, I find the answer here. Years ago I asked for a good load for my .45 Colt AWA SAA, and Rossi carbines, and the answer was 8 or 9 grains of Unique. I loaded 8 grains and have enjoyed shooting both. With 8 grains under 250 gr lead, I get 860 fps from the revolver, and 1083 fps from the 20" carbine. I'd like to up it to 9 grains, but want to know if I'll still enjoy shooting the revolver. I have a small place in the woods, but often the hogs walk by less than a hundred feet from the house. I'd like to get one, and think the added power should help. What say you?

[Lefty Dude]

Alliant shows 8.5 gr. to be max with your 250-255 gr. bullet.

You can go 9 gr. with a 200 gr. according to Alliant.

In a Ruger SBH or BH, you can get by with 9 gr. no problem, with your AWA it's your call.

I am loading 8 gr. with my Uberti/45 SAA 5 1/2".

I also own a Ruger SBH/44 mag if I get the itch to rod-rod.

[JerryB]

I reckon that I must be mistaken, all of my shootings days with a Colt SAA .45 I was told that 9 grains of Unique was the standard heavy load for the 250 or 255 grain cast bullet.

[adirondakjack]

A skimpy 8.5 and a 250 would be tops in a SAA clone if I was gonna trip the loud switch (broke guns and bloody fingers are not my idea of fun...) In a ruger BH, I ran bunches at 10 grains U with 250s, but I also sent it back when it got battered out of time eventually. Ruger fixed it, but I know why it happened......

If ya want a hair more out of it, look to IMR 4227 or 2400.....

[Doc Hudson]

I reckon that I must be mistaken, all of my shootings days with a Colt SAA .45 I was told that 9 grains of Unique was the standard heavy load for the 250 or 255 grain cast bullet.

We must be talking to and reading different people.

I've always read and heard that 8.5 of Unique was THE STANDARD LOAD. Then "Alliant went and monkeyed around with unique's formula and said 8.5 was to hot and that 8.0 was now the duplicate of the old 8.5 grain load.

[Hankster]

I think i'd follow the recommendations of the people who MAKE the powder, over somebody down at the local "gun shop" or whatever, if not just for "liabilities sake"! I'm willing to bet they "tested" it a bit more than "hotload jack"! LOL!!!

[Lefty Dude]

I have 3/4 pound of the old formula Hercules 2400 in the Silver can.

I use it for special loads, only.

Alliant changed the formula for Unique. The new, it's a little hotter than the old stuff.

[J Miller]

Depending on the lot numbers 8.0 to 8.5grs Unique with a 255gr bullet is factory equivalent load as your chronograph shows. 9.0 will push it up to over 900 fps. That load is within the capabilities of smoke less Colts and modern copies. It is as far as I go with Unique with the .45 Colt. Many will go to 10grs or over in Rugers and that may be safe, but at that point I go to 2400 powder. Speer #13 actually goes farther than 9.0gr Unique with their 250gr SWC. It is NOT a dangerous load despite what many say. If your guns are in good mechanical condition you won't blow them up or loose fingers or toes or ears or anything else.

Loading manuals, ammo makers, powder makers, bullet makers all use different equipment to test and measure their loads. Different lot numbers of components, different test guns and test barrels all make for variables. There are so many variables that it's unbelievable.

9.ogrs Unique is an old and established load. Been in use for many many decades. I've used a lot of that load.

Mater of fact I shoot it in IJ. Yep, my old beat and battered 75 vintage Uberti Cattleman.

I also use it as my go to load in my OM Ruger BH, my Winchester 94AE, my Marlin 1894 Cowboy, and my S&W 25-5.

Oh the recoil is not that bad. But then again I'm not overly recoil sensitive. Try it, you might like it.

Joe

[Van Morgan]

I used to load 8 gr of Unique with my 250gr but found it too position sensitive. If you want something a little zippier and less position sensitive try 9-9.5 gr of HS6. That is my standard load out of my pistols these days.
Not quite as heavy as my full load BP loads, but not for the feint of heart or recoil sensitive. It is within the published loads.

[Idiot]

You can't stop the 250 grain bullet backed with 8.0 grains of Unique with just your hand. It's a good all around load and one I'd stick with when dinking around with SAA. You can go up a grain in powder, but there is little to gain and much to potentially lose.

[J Miller]

You can't stop the 250 grain bullet backed with 8.0 grains of Unique with just your hand. It's a good all around load and one I'd stick with when dinking around with SAA. You can go up a grain in powder, but there is little to gain and much to potentially lose.

Approximately 100 fps to gain ....

And what is there to potentially lose?

Joe

[Terry Murbach]

I HAVE AN EARLY CIMARRON SAA 45COLT 4 3/4" SIXGUN THAT HAS OVER 7000 ROUNDS THROUGH IT WITH NARY A PROBLEM. NINETY NINE PERCENT [ 99%] OF THOSE CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN 250-260grSWC KEITH STYLE BULLETS RIDING 9.0gr OF UNIQUE [ OR 9.0gr OF UNIVERSAL ]. THIS IS AN OLD STANDARD LOAD THAT GOES WELL BACK TO WHEN DUPONT OWNED UNIQUE, THE SAME AS THE FAMOUS 7.5gr OF UNIQUE IN THE 44SPL WAS ALSO A DUPONT LOAD FROM WAAAAAAY BACK WHEN. IT IS JUST AS GOOD NOW AS IT WAS THEN FOR EITHER CARTRIDGE.

[adirondakjack]

Ya got lots of fun to lose when the heavier battering chips and breaks sears and bolts ans hands on these guns. I've seen enough of em go "T"s up with CAS loads to know they won't consistently take the battering. Then there are the flat springs that ring like a bell under recoil and decide to lay down and die in two pieces......

Ya probably won't blow the gun up, but how much fun is a one shot range day followed by parts chasing? Colt style lockwork is not that robust. ya wanna fire lots of heavy stuff, buy a ruger.

[Don McDowell]

9 grs of unique with the 250-260 gr bullet has been the standard reload for 45 colt's since before alot of the self professed firearms experts of today even knew what a 45 colt was. Some guns might shoot better with 8-8.5, but as always its an individual gun thing.
Lyman/Ideal handbooks from way back before Bill Ruger ever made his first handgun recommended 10 grs.
Alliant today says 9.5 grs.http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... ulletid=67

If they had of changed Unique that much they probably would of changed the name to Ultimatelydifferent or some such.

[J Miller]

CAS shooters that are used to squib loads would think a mouse phart was a heavy load.

9.0grs of Unique is not a heavy load. In actuality it's probably closer to a full 40grs of BP than anything else both velocity and recoil wise.

Terry's right guys, and so am I. This is a very old standard load. The sad part is in recent decades people have been brainwashed into thinking Unique is bad, 2400 is dirty, Elmer Keith was an old cowboy who didn't know anything. And any load that exceeds cowboy performance is hard on guns. It's nonsense.

And A-jack, cas is not use of a gun; it's ABUSE. And that is not what we are discussing. At least it wasn't.

Here is something to think about:
http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm
Colt, S&W, Ruger, Hawes, Cimarron, Uberti, EMF, AWA, Great Western and every other maker that produced a revolver in .45 Caliber made it or it's twin brother in both .45 Colt and .45 ACP.
45 Colt = 14,000 PSI
45 ACP = 21,000 PSI
45 ACP+P = 23,000 PSI

Now, have you ever heard of any gun maker with a gun chambered for, or with an axillary cylinder for 45 ACP warn against exceeding 14,000 psi? No, not gonna happen.
If a Colt SAA, or an Uberti made Colt SA copy can safely shoot .45 ACPs at 21,000 PSI, a .45 Colt load at around 19,000 psi (9.0grs Unique / 250-260gr bullet) is not going to hurt the gun.

Joe

[KCSO]

From the horses mouth, 1971 Elmer replied to a letter and said, " For the 45 Colt guns 9 grains of Unique is the load to use..."

Since I have loading manuals back to 1957 I checked and in the old days 9.0 was listed as safe for SAA guns. If I want a heavier load I go with 2400.

[Don McDowell]

Joe from the chrono testing I've done 9 grs of unique is the equivilant of the original 45 colt blackpowder load, and faster than the lower load brought about by the Army's complaining about recoil, and probably had more to do with the ordinance guys saving money by cutting the powder charge.

There's also some guy used to write I think in a local paper down New Mexico and Texas way, named something like Skeeter Skelton or such, recommended the 9 grs of unique with the 250 gr Keith bullet in the Colt model P's . Course he's not on the internet and never shot in the Squib shooters society so I suppose he probably don't know much.

[J Miller]

Joe from the chrono testing I've done 9 grs of unique is the equivilant of the original 45 colt blackpowder load, and faster than the lower load brought about by the Army's complaining about recoil, and probably had more to do with the ordinance guys saving money by cutting the powder charge.

There's also some guy used to write I think in a local paper down New Mexico and Texas way, named something like Skeeter Skelton or such, recommended the 9 grs of unique with the 250 gr Keith bullet in the Colt model P's . Course he's not on the internet and never shot in the Squib shooters society so I suppose he probably don't know much.

You know Don, I've got to cast up some 454190s and load some over black powder and Unique. Shoot them side by side just to see. Sounds like fun, come on down and we can go shoot some up.

What bugs me is that loads that have been proven for decades are now considered by some to be too hot. Were we the last generation that was taught to use logic and cognitive powers? If the load was safe in the guns of the past then the same load is safe now in the guns of today with their better metallurgy. That's logical.
Sometimes I feel like a dead horse beating the stick.

Yeah, I seem to remember that Skeeter guy. Always liked things simple. Single Actions, .357s, .44s, .45s, Unique, 2400, 16-1 alloy, Keith bullets.
Boy do I miss him.

Joe

[Don McDowell]

Joe 37 grs of Goex 3f a .30 fiber wad and the 255 KT bullet from the rcbs mould is a real blast now let me tell ya.
Pack the bags the guns and the ol lady and head fer Baker MT. Saturday is the levergun, handgun and 22 match....

[Idiot]

You can't stop the 250 grain bullet backed with 8.0 grains of Unique with just your hand. It's a good all around load and one I'd stick with when dinking around with SAA. You can go up a grain in powder, but there is little to gain and much to potentially lose.

Approximately 100 fps to gain ....

And what is there to potentially lose?

Joe

After reading the posts after mine, apparently nothing. However, I do know this as a fact, both Blue Dot and Unique have changed a bit and I would caution using older data with the newly changed powders. I've described numerous times how my old tried and true full power Blue Dot load changed from a full power load to one that required spent cases to be beat out of the cylinder (Alliant fessed up a few years later). My view is, unless I know for sure that his SAA clone is a good one and I know for sure that the Unique he's using is from an old lot, I won't recommend going above 8.0 grains of Unique. Now for me and my guns, I run 8.0 grains and more to power a 280 grain Keith style slug out my barrel. But even then I'm not sure the animal or rock being hit by the slug will know any difference between it and the slug going at slightly less velocity.

BTW Zack, J Miller, Terry Murbach, and Don McDowell have forgotten more about the SAA and its loads than I've ever learned. Keep that in mind when your sorting through the advice. Have fun.

[Griff]

I don't care who sez what.... the sage advice I was given as a neophyte reloader was as follows:

"NEVER use another man's load data in YOUR guns... ALWAYS take a 10-15% cut off his load and work back up in YOUR guns." In my world that applies to reloading manuals also.

I've used 9.0 grains of Unique behind a 250 grain pill in my 1st Colt... way back before I started shooting CAS. When Oglesby & Oglesby got my SAA for rebuild a few years back, he replaced the cylinder due to stress fractures. That cylinder had ever seen loads that robust. It was a rebored, .357 2nd Gen cyl that replaced the original due to a double charge early in my CAS reloading, (approx 12 grains of RedDot behind a 185 pill, pre-Dillon reloader). It had only seen 6.0-6.5 grains of RedDot or 30+/- of BP. But it was approaching 200K rounds thru it, when it went to Bill.

[JerryB]

Well boys, I reckon that maybe I should listen to all the experts and just go back to shooting safe, sane, and sensible loads in my COLT SAA .45 that I bought new in 1959.
I promise not to mention that terrible load of 9 grains of Unique again.