OT-What turns you off the quickest in Westerns?

[stew71]

Ugly women.

[lthardman]

Like others have said, I get really turned off by incorrect firearms for the timeframe depicted in the movie. Also, movies in which everyone looks like they just stepped out of the shower and changed into fresh clothes hardly seem accurate.

[jkbrea]

How about any scene that involves a Gatling gun in use. It's amazig how it knocks all the bad guys or Indians off there horses but no horse ever goes down. If the 45-70 can't knock a horse down, maybe I shouldn't use it on an elk hunt.

[drboomboom]

White, perfect teeth.

[Hankster]

BADLY dubbed in sound effects!!! Watch "The Sons of Katie Elder".. a John Wayne film. During The Shootout at the river bridge.. the dubbed gunfire is TERRIBLE!!! You see the bad guys fire and 6 smoke puffs, and 3 shots etc..shots sound 3 secs after their fired, all at a distance of maybe 20-30 yds etc... it was the worst sound dubbing i've ever seen.... then at the end as JW shoots it out with James Gregory... his SAA holds like 14 shots w/no reload!! UGH!!

[Retro]

grass growing in the middle of a road.

Ah yes, noticed that in a mediocre Spencer/Hill movie last night.

And these fellows don't cut ropes, they shoot through them. From the hip. Now I realise it can be done, but every time? Even when you can reach out and touch the rope? Didn't ammo cost money?

[CaptainFinn]

I was watching a made for TV western (or is it direct to video ?) the other day on Netflix. Every time a character drew a Colt SAA, it was wasy to see the zamack zinc cast frame and the elongated slot-like cylinder bolt notches on the cylinder--long, maybe half an inch long and 1/16th inch wide notches--that marked them as cast blank-firing 'replica' guns.

And the dialogue--a smattering of 'OKAY's' and the occasional 'YOU GUYS' made me cringe.

Worst of all, a frontier family was holed up and under attack by the bad guys. Hunkered down in the main ranch hosue while the bad guys ride around outside shooting at them. The frontier mother sees he son, a boy maybe 12 to 14 years of age, pick up a gun and she completely freaks out, scared, 'oh my goodness put it down, you might get hurt!' type of nonesense.

[roundup]

Thought of a couple more......wussy town folk and when they have a guy packin a whole camp kitchen in a small pair of saddle bags.

LK

Back in the 1940's a bunch of us were watching a Gene Autry movie in the local theater. One scene had him a singing away with him a plunking away on his guitar (with ochestral accompaniament) while cooking on a fire pit with a grating, a large frying pan with bacon and eggs, and a large coffee pot. Prior to large we had noticed that he only had a bedroll, about the diameter of a baseball bat, tied to the back of his saddle. One of the goup wondered where all of the other stuff was carried. One of the group opined that "He must of stuffed it in Champion's behind" or words to that effect.

[roundup]

Ugly women.

If you have in working in a mine, prospecting, driving cattle, cutting timber, herding sheep etc., for weeks to months and are a young man, ugly can be a relative term.

[66GTO]

Ugly women.

If you have in working in a mine, prospecting, driving cattle, cutting timber, herding sheep etc., for weeks to months and are a young man, ugly can be a relative term.

Well I can't plead guilty to being any of those, but I have found that the older I get the less picky I am

[Pete44ru]

What I think qualified as a pretty big faux pas, was the jet aircraft contrails I spotted in the background sky of at least one less than memorable oater.

.

[J Miller]

A lot of folks have mentioned the contrails. With even mediocre effort those can be removed by just about anybody.

No excuse for them in a western.

Joe

[Meeteetse]

grass growing in the middle of a road.

Ah yes, noticed that in a mediocre Spencer/Hill movie last night.

And these fellows don't cut ropes, they shoot through them. From the hip. Now I realise it can be done, but every time? Even when you can reach out and touch the rope? Didn't ammo cost money?

____________________________________________________________________________
Grass in the middle of the road can happen even with a single hitch rig. Depends on the traffic . . .
I don't really care about most mistakes in westerns unless it is really over the line, like Costner's 10/12/15 shot episode in the gun fight in Open Range. Still enjoyed the movie. I don't really care about period correct guns unless the have 73's, 92's, etc., before the civil war. Sure, there are those films that are more accurate, but sometimes they loose the message of the movie while trying to toe the line in period accuracy.
I don't know much about saddles, or spurs. I know what I have and what has been in the family for the last 100 years, but I'm not a historian of most western gear as some are, however I do think I can tell what is hollywood and what is closer to what it really was. Except for John Wayne, and he was perfect. . . .

Frankly, I'll take the worst western over anything hollywood has put out over the last several years dealing with the drug culture, gay-lesbian issues and/or life in the big city. I don't live that life and could care less. Westerns on the other hand, even the dark ones, give me a certain peace thinking about the way things were, and wishing it was still that way.

[Ysabel Kid]

Using a weapon not made yet for the year the movie is supposed to take place in.

[slimster]

I always gotta chuckle when I see the cowboy toss around a set of saddlebags full of gold like the were full of confetti.

[octagon]

It is common to see guitars in bar scenes that are from the mid-20th century. Might as well have a Flying "V" and a huge amp.

[Combat Diver]

Agreed on the never ending ammo supply on six shooters. Some of the best are with Sam Elliot, Tom Selleck and Robert Devaul. Westerns have gotten better in my opion on firearms and dress.

CD

[Booger Bill]

Every once in awhile I like to shake the tree. Now I like westerns as much as anyone, probley more than most. What is the allure? Now by that I mean just why is there so many westerns compared to a period movie of back east or elsewhere?
I was raised in wisconsin. I have always been a history buff and wisconsin had its share. Yes, it was ahead of the west as being settled by maybe 50 to 75 years compareably speaking. Probley the southern states were another 60 to 70 years earlier yet. The big differance between wisconsin and western states would have been the way people had to travel. Solid forest versus wide open spaces except for the mountains and the forests about 6000 ft and above on them. Early wisconsin travel was by canues on the rivers and lakes. Due to the lush thick forests, rivers and lakes, I belive we had far more indians and wildlife. Untill it got logged and cleared for farming in the mid 1800s it had to be harder to get around. At the start of the civil war wisconsins soliders were considered soliders from the united states west, or "frontier".
From my reading I know they had their share of indian wars, (the blackhawk war for one) shootings, lynchings etc like everywhere else. Its lore was voyagers, lumber jacks, farmers and mostly hard, hard work.
I say every part of the country was once "the frontier" and had plenty of history. Just asking, why our fasination with the west? Do you really belive if you werent in the west that all other people were sheep, milktoast nammy pammy citizens? Well, if hollywood is to be belived, thats the false impression we are given!

[gak]

Booger Bill, I don't doubt for a minute your neck o' the woods' (and others' east of the Missouri and Mississippi) history and lore, but I do believe your observation is true largely because of the wide open spaces, the "promised land" (manufactured or not) for so many "back then," a land so different from the more "closed in" nature of things for most of the population. The fact of its openness meant (or means to movie viewers) that you can more obviously see the comings and goings of the bad guys and good guys, and their bad or good behavior, respectively, is more clear as well. The cowboys or Indians or settlers can point and say, "look over yonder"--and there's (more of) a yonder to see,...and that's always appealed to the movie go'er. You combine that with the (type of) grandeur that's easier to capture on film, and you've got a "western."

[Booger Bill]

I was born in wisconsin in 1941. I came west in 1960, on and off back and forth untill 1964 when I came west for good, 35 years in california and now retired in utah. Back east in wisconsin, its a kind of deceptive landscape. Years ago I flew my own private airplane back home from california. I took my dad up for his first plane ride. Instead of getting thrilled he got POed! Dad was very conservative and a life long hunter and outdoorsman. He groused the entire flight, mad about areas he had hunted being built up etc. When you drive the roads of the country there you dont see the houses hidden in the woods by the trees etc. There are fields of plowed up marshs that you dont realise from the ground hidden by vegatation on the edges etc.
In other words that country is far more populated than you would belive from the air than seeing it on the surface travel. The west is diffrent in that aspect. We live at cedar city utah. There is miles and miles of open land, mostly sagebrush where you can see a building 15 miles away, if there is one! Usualy in wisconsin and elsewhere even if it was in the line of sight at 5 miles you might not see it do to the humidity in the air!

[Barcelona Rick]

All the cussing....will only watch the TV versions that cut out the foul language....course they don't get it all out very often....not a prude....was once a foul mouthed sailor but foul language doesn't add a thing to the picture....

rick

[Jayhawker]

It applies mostly to the older westerns, but nothing mashed my buttons like sequined shirts. Probably why I thought Gene Autry and Roy Rogers were funny guys.

[Buck Elliott]

I believe the lure of the "Western" comes from several aspects of life in what we now call "the West..."

First and foremost is the "romance" of the Cowboy Era, whether real or imagined. There was/is nothing "romantic" about the cowboy life, that I can remember, except for the odd occasion when you are sitting your horse and remember to take a good long look at some of the most wonderful country, and the most picturesque skies that God ever created, and the enormity of it all can literally overwhelm you. Other than that, it is bone-weary, hard-scrabble WORK, from can't see to can't see.

Secondly -- and I've already touched on it -- is the wide-open expanse of this land we call the West. on the Plains, you can often watch the weather coming in for a week. Even in the mountains, you can see for more miles than "civilization" can afford. The air is clean; the water is good; the sounds are cleaner and clearer. As was mentioned, the view is generally uncluttered by the trappings of the cities. Buildings tend to be low and ground-hugging, blending into the landscape, rather than trying to dominate it. Most are accompanied by scattered trees, as the structures tend to be placed near a reliable water source. Many of the older roads one encounters will follow the meanderings of the landscape as well, not cutting a garish slash across hill and dale.

Next, the Western seems to conjure up visions of simpler times and fewer 'modern' worries... No corporate heirarchies; no overreaching government regulations -- just honest men, doing hard and honest work; beset occasionally by others who would take the rewards of that work unto themselves, leaving the honest men no alternative but to fight for what was rightfully theirs. It is a man's world, to the casual observer... Women seem to play minor, supporting roles in the unfolding daily drama.

The very nature of the country, whether it be the open Plains of RED RIVER, the deserts of THE SEARCHERS, or the high mountain valley of SHANE appeals deeply to the primal side of our nature, as almost nothing else can or does.

Anyway, that's my take on the subject, having BTDT, as they say...

[J Miller]

I believe the lure of the "Western" comes from several aspects of life in what we now call the "West..."

First and foremost is the "romance" of the Cowboy Era, whether real or imagined. There was/is nothing "romantic" about the cowboy life, that I can remember, except for the odd occasion when you are sitting your horse and remember to take a good long look at some of the most wonderful country, and the most picturesque skies that God ever created, and the enormity of it all can literally overwhelm you. Other than that, it is bone-weary, hard-scrabble WORK, from can't see to can't see.

Secondly -- and I've already touched on it -- is the wide-open expanse of this land we call the West. on the Plains, you can often watch the weather coming in for a week. Even in the mountains, you can see for more miles than "civilization" can afford. The air is clean; the water is good; the sounds are cleaner and clearer. As was mentioned, the view is generally uncluttered by the trappings of the cities. Buildings tend to be low and ground-hugging, blending into the landscape, rather than trying to dominate it. Most are accompanied by scattered trees, as the structures tend to be placed near a reliable water source. Many of the older roads one encounters will follow the meanderings of the landscape as well, not cutting a garish slash across hill and dale.

Next, the West seems to conjure up visions of simpler times and fewer 'modern' worries... No corporate heirarchies; no overreaching government regulations -- just honest men, doing hard and honest work; beset occasionally by others who would take the rewards of that work unto themselves, leaving the honest men no alternative but to fight for what was rightfully theirs. It is a man's world, to the casual observer... Women seem to play minor, supporting roles in the unfolding daily drama.

The very nature of the country, whether it be the open Plains of RED RIVER, or the high mountain valley of SHANE appeals deeply to the primal side of our nature, as almost nothing else can or does.

Anyway, that's my take on the subject, having BTDT, as they say...

What Buck said is so true. I spend almost 40 years in NM and AZ. What he just posted is the way it is. Reread it. Believe it. Most of the east was settled and civilized before the west was even thought about. It's where the heart of many of us is.
It's where my heart is. I guess that's why I like movies about the west or especially open places. Back east is way to green. I like the open desert and cactus rather than thick lush green trees. I like to be able to see way off in the distance.


Joe

[Buck Elliott]

Thanks for the kind words, Joe...

[Booger Bill]

Hey, check out this. Eastern minnesota usualy isnt considered the old west, is it? Just trying to show to some extent the differance between western hollywood glamour trying to shape our prospective and ignoreing other history.
http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/hanging.html

[Buck Elliott]

Hey, check out this. Eastern minnesota usualy isnt considered the old west, is it? Just trying to show to some extent the differance between western hollywood glamour trying to shape our prospective and ignoreing other history.
http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/hanging.html

Part of the West? --- You bet! Remember Northfield!?!

[Booger Bill]

You got me there Buck! Sometime ago on this site I wrote about a 1851 navy .36 colt at the museum at oshkosh wisconsin that was taken off cole younger on their way to northfield. In the flap of the holster was burned engraved, "From Maj Quantrill to C younger!

[20cows]

Why were westerns popular?

Horses.

It's like a statement I heard on the History Channel's "Wild West Tech", After automobiles replaced horses in the getaway, outlaws became gangsters. No romance.

[Meeteetse]

Buck's comments are the best explanation of a often talked about subject I have heard in a long time. Sage advice from someone who has given it a great deal of thought. Wish I had said it.

I don't know how old you are Buck, but I believe you and I could be good friends. We have a lot in common. Must be from growing up in Wyoming. If you are a young man you probably wouldn't want to hang out with a dinosaur, but I'll bet we could have some good talks.

[KCSO]

In regards to speech, the general lack of accents. The west was filled with emmigrants, some of them my relatives. Think of all the towns that were say French or German based yet in most of the movies it's all white bread wasps. I think that was one of the redeeming parts of Silverado, "As you might have guessed i'm not from around here".

My pet peeve is going to town on horseback and getting there in like 10 minutes. Hey by horse TOWN was a monthly trip that took all day, you can walk as fast as a good team will pull a wagon.

[Buck Elliott]

Thanks for more kind words, Meeteetse... You're welcome at my fire any time.

KCSO, I also have beef about the "time" factor in a lot of western movies. I also realize that they can't spend a lot of empty time detailing everyday travel. In THE VIRGINIAN, for example, in the book, Judge Henry's ranch is described as being some 260 miles from the town of Medicine Bow -- not an easy afternoon ride...

As for accents, I always appreciate it when folks appear to come from somewhere outside of Southern California... DESPERATE TRAIL is a good study in accents, from Irish to East Coast to...? Nicely done, and on purpose...

[gyrhed]

There was this joke of a western called texas rangers on the other night. Took place in texas right after the civil war. lots of peacemakers, and 94 winchesters. didn't see a single walker or front end loader.

[madman4570]

Back east is way to green. I like the open desert and cactus rather than thick lush green trees.

Joe

Got to respect that Joe,
Myself, its the dense green forest in the East that does it for myself.
That's what's so cool about this country-----a little somthing for everyone!

[ornery]

Hey Pards!!! Haven't been on the board in a while!!!We relocated to Idaho......sure glad you fellers are still here!!!

Training horses for a living for over thirty years...you just KNOW I'm going to say.....LOUSY HORSEMANSHIP!!!

I worked in film....the way those guys and gals jack on a horses' jaw drives me bug-house!!!!

All the rest you guys said is true.

Remember Ward Bond and the river scene in "The Searchers"? When he pops off that blank while cocking that Colt is one of my favorite moments. You just KNOW that "Duke" made him buy the Mescal that night.....

[gamekeeper]

Hey Pards!!! Haven't been on the board in a while!!!We relocated to Idaho......sure glad you fellers are still here!!!

Training horses for a living for over thirty years...you just KNOW I'm going to say.....LOUSY HORSEMANSHIP!!!

I worked in film....the way those guys and gals jack on a horses' jaw drives me bug-house!!!!

All the rest you guys said is true.

Remember Ward Bond and the river scene in "The Searchers"? When he pops off that blank while cocking that Colt is one of my favorite moments. You just KNOW that "Duke" made him buy the Mescal that night.....

+ 1
By the way ornery, welcome back and who in your opinion, are the best horsemen & horsewomen in the movies?

[Hankster]

1 would be that "unknown" rider in the beginning of "Quigley"..... Kicks horse into a gallup, hangs off the side of the horse, picks up a bucket on the ground, then jumps a gate and a hauls off up the road... JW sat a horse pretty good, Selleck can ride... Duvall is an EXCELLENT horseman! Surprisingly, Dean Martin rode well... Kevin Costner...(Silverado) Jimmy Stewart rode good, Brad Pitt can ride...

[Wes]

I'm with ornery on the horsemanship. Lot's of bad, bad, horsemanship. Also lot's of horses that don't look to be very well broke.
The one thing that sticks out at me is the hats. Why is it since Crocodile Dundee and Man From Snowy River that these new 'westerns' have Australian outback style hats? They're fine and dandy for the Aussies, really don't belong in (most) westerns.
I about threw my TV out the window when SLC hosted the Olympics and the athletes came into the stadium wearing.....you guessed it, Aussie outback shaped hats. Bad enough that you gotta look at them in some of the new cheesy westerns. Utah has plenty of real cowboys throughout the state (some very good ones). Apparently nobody looks at them very closely. Nothing screams out 'Dude' at me like one of those hats unless it's on an Aussie (where there are also plenty of good cowboys).
Someone mentioned the lack of oxen teams. I think they have a hard time coming up with enough teams these days. Looking back at the archives at the county library here in Uinta county Wyoming, there were some in the early pictures but more teams used (once they got here at least) were horses and mules. Surprised me how many mule teams were pictured. One of my ancestors had the freighting and road building business out of Ft. Bridger. The pictures of many of these freighters were using mules even more than horses. One of my wifes ancestors was head teamster at the Fort for a while and he always claimed he could harness and hitch six mules and be halfway to Ft. Bridger before his kids could drag themselves out of bed (I guess every generation is sure their kids have it too easy!) for breakfast. Their ranch was (and still is) about 9 miles from the fort.

[Meeteetse]

1 would be that "unknown" rider in the beginning of "Quigley"..... Kicks horse into a gallup, hangs off the side of the horse, picks up a bucket on the ground, then jumps a gate and a hauls off up the road... JW sat a horse pretty good, Selleck can ride... Duvall is an EXCELLENT horseman! Surprisingly, Dean Martin rode well... Kevin Costner...(Silverado) Jimmy Stewart rode good, Brad Pitt can ride...

Ben Johnson was and is the best and truest cowboy in the movies. Never really got the credit he deserved . . . .IMO. . . .

[gak]

I posted about this scene earlier, and I'm sure someone will chime in saying even this picture over romanticizes and isn't absolutely period-correct, but this pic epitomizes the "correct look" I like in my westerns:
http://www.tigersweat.com/movies/cheyenne/chey02.jpg
These guys look like real, hard-working cowboys! I'm sure there are many more similar examples folks can come up with, but the opening scenes of Cheyenne Social Club immediately came to my mind.

[jhvaughan2]

Haven quite seen mine.
Two biggest errors that get me are;
1) The lethality/accuracy of a shot gun at rifle ranges and the compactness the shot pattern of a short barreled shot gun at 20 yards. (example: In the Magnificent Seven McQueen shoots someone through the lower pane of a hotel window from across the street with a shot gun.)
2) The aftermath of large gunfights with burning wagons, a couple of dozen dead people laying about and no dead or wounded horses.

----

But the number one western/shooting plot hole that always gets me is how all bad guys (except, maybe, the primary antagonist) drop dead after being shot, but the good guy's buddy is always still alive waiting to say something profound before he goes.

[Wes]

You're so right Meeteetse. Ben Johnson was a cowboy in real life. If I remember right he was a world champ in team roping waaaaay back. He most always rode some good looking horses in his movies. Looked to be broke pretty good too. I always liked the black horse he rode in Hang 'Em High. Looked like an old Poco Bueno bred horse to me, but who knows.

[vancelw]

I always heard Audie Murphy was an excellent horseman and did all/most his own riding and stunts.

[Buck Elliott]

I posted about this scene earlier, and I'm sure someone will chime in saying even this picture over romanticizes and isn't absolutely period-correct, but this pic epitomizes the "correct look" I like in my westerns:
http://www.tigersweat.com/movies/cheyenne/chey02.jpg
These guys look like real, hard-working cowboys! I'm sure there are many more similar examples folks can come up with, but the opening scenes of Cheyenne Social Club immediately came to my mind.

Don't mean to bust yer bubble, but CHEYENNE SOCIAL CLUB was supposed to be about the immediate post-Civil War period. Most of the characters (including Jimmy Stewart & Hank Fonda) are dressed in 1890 - 1920 style garb, and are packing '73 & '92 Winchesters, along with Model P Colts. Their saddles are WAY too late to have been available at that time.

Good as the movie is -- it's got some of my favorite dialog -- it just doesn't hold water for authenticity. I'll take something like Sam Elliott's CONAGHER, or Ed Harris's APPALOOSA any day... And even they have their gaffes.

Best horsemen....? Don't forget Gary Cooper, Roy Rogers & Tom Mix; lots of others too...

[rangerider7]

The Westerner with Gary Cooper and Walter Brennen was a great movie for dialog along with Cooper cattle Company. IMHO
Of the great westerns I think the one scene I cringe at the most is when Shane shoots the bad guy in the balcony but actually shoots the blank in the floor. He is flinching from the blank shotgun blast of the bad guy.

[Buck Elliott]

RR7, THE WESTERNER is a graduate course in acting, along with being an enjoyable (for the most part...) flick. There are two long, wordless scenes: one where Coop carries it pretty much by himself (waking up with a hangover, and the judge's arm around his neck), and the other between Cooper & Brennan, when Judge Bean is waiting for Cole Hardin to give up the lock of hair. Still, at the end, I have to feel kinda sorry for Hardin, gettin' roped in by that smooth-talkin' li'l gal, even if she was almost kinda cute. He was meant for better things than herdin' corn & spuds, IMNSHO...

Oh well... Ain't the first time a cowpoke lost his VIRGINIAN-ity to a persistant, purty smile and other feminine wiles...

[3leggedturtle]

Ugly women.

If you have in working in a mine, prospecting, driving cattle, cutting timber, herding sheep etc., for weeks to months and are a young man, ugly can be a relative term.

HMMM If you were alone with a less then pretty lady,in the wilderness would anyone know One thing that set me off, think it was JW in Wagon, the flopped the negatives, cus he had M92 with loading gate on the left side

[Hankster]

Believe it or Not, Wilford Brimley!! He was also a Farrier, shod his own horses, had his own ranch. "The B-7" I think it was called......

[gyrhed]

My favorite western is the searchers but OMG Monument Valley is sooo far from what that part of texas is really like it almost makes me not want to watch it over and over again. Also way to many W92s.

For those of you that don't know that part of texas was pretty lush during the years after the civil war there was a lot of rain and the grass was deep, not that powdrery dusty rocky lunar landscape in the movie.

[El Chivo]

I haven't read the whole thread, so this may be a duplicate.

I have noticed that right before the gunfight starts, shooters work the lever dramatically to put a round in the chamber.

No one serious would walk into a gunfight with an empty chamber. Was there some kind of levergunner's courtesy to wait for everyone to cycle their actions before getting started?