Puma M92 POI

[fastlane604]

Just took delivery of a Puma M92 .357 with 24" octogonal barrel, imported by Legacy Sports. Good looking gun. Bought it off gunbroker. In response to my question, "Is it accurate?", the previous owner said, "It is a good shooter."

It does ignite primers nicely. For my first shots I set up at 25 yards and fired off hand. Shot two seperate very tight 5 shot groups, exactly 4.5 inches right of point of aim. Anything farther than 25 yards and I'm not on the paper plate, unless I aim at the left edge. Front site is fixed. Rear site is adjustable for elevation only. I assume the fix is replace the rear site for one adjustable for windage. Looking for suggestions on what works well. If there is another legitimate fix (no do you have a vice questions, please) please venture forth. Never owned a lever gun. Those were my first shots with one. Many shotguns, revolvers and a few .22 rifles, but this is my first centerfire rifle. Thanks for the help.

[Bruce Scott]

Both the rear and front sights should be dovetailed to the barrel. You get lateral adjustment by drifting them left or right.

Rear Sight: To adjust POI left - move it left. Front Sight: To adjust POI left - move it right.

Remove the step elevator before you start tapping on the rear sight.
There may be a set screw holding the front sight in place. If so, loosen it before attempting any adjustment.

[Tycer]

Welcome to the forum!

You'll love that gun. We have a real genuine 92 guru here that goes by Nate Kiowa Jones www.stevesgunz.com that will prolly tell me I'm wrong, but here goes:


The rear sight is in a dovetail groove and can be moved for windage. If the front sight is of the dovetail sort (some Pumas are not, the sight is part of the barrel band), it too can be moved for windage.

Use a brass drift or similar and brace the rifle on something that will not scratch or mar the finish and drift that rear site over to the left. 4.5" at 25 is pretty far, so I'd start with moving it 1/8".

If you get to the point where the sight is sticking too far to the left for appearance sake and the front is a dovetail too, you can move it to the right.

If the front is not dovetailed, you can have it removed from the barrel band and a new one dovetailed into the barrel or you can have the receiver drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The dovetail will most likely be way cheaper than the D&T+new Williams or Lyman 66

[Pete44ru]

Welcome to the party, fastlane !

You might consider a read of both the "resources" and the "articles" sections, on our home page at www.leverguns.com - as there'a LOT of basic information to be gleaned there.

.

[fastlane604]

Thanks to one and all for the suggestions. I will try them out.

[Tycer]

Let us know how it works out for you.

Oh, and pictures of your gun are always appreciated around here.

[fastlane604]

Both the front and rear sight are dovetailed. I have made adjustments to both. I will test later today and report the results. Thanks again for the instruction.

[AJMD429]

Check down the page on THIS thread for some sighting options with pictures....

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... d7#p246623

If you plan to use the gun for 'accurate' shooting (i.e. under 3 minutes of angle, maybe...?), I'd opt for the Williams FP (a small fee for a 'gunsmith' install, and maybe do it yourself for $30 in bit/tap parts, if you have a drill press). If you want to shoot at dawn/dusk for hunting (deer around here are virtually nocturnal during hunting season), then even though I dislike the 'scope' options on the Puma M92's, I'd probably use one.

Eventually, you may do what I did - get a Marlin and scope it for dawn/dusk/hunting use, and a Rossi with a Williams FP for daytime use. I like the Marbles 'Bullseye' for a home defense or nasty animal use.

[fastlane604]

Again, thanks for the wisdom and suggestions. Went out last evening after making adjustments. Shot at different distances and made some more adjustments and I feel like my windage POI is pretty close.

I also learned that bifocals and rifle sighting present a new challenge. I shoot shotguns and clay targets. I focus on the target (when I'm shooting properly) with my far away vision and my bifocals do not come into play. When I shoot my revolvers I focus on the front sight with the close vision part of my bifocals but the target is still close enough that I can see it fairly distinctly. As I back away from the target with my rifle, keeping focus on the front sight, the target starts getting fuzzy pretty quickly. Age old (pun intended) challenge I'm sure, just new to me.

[Tycer]

Here's a test for you:

Make a temporary aperture sight to see if it fixes your bifocal issue.
Poke a hole in a piece of paper and slip it in a locking lug and twist it so you can see through it to the target and front sight. Change the size of the hole until you can see both the front sight and target clearly.

There's the joy of a receiver sight and a Merit adjustable aperture. http://www.meritcorporation.com/
99% of my levers have a receiver sight and a Merit gets moved to each when I'm doing load development or bullseye practice.

[fastlane604]

Thanks Tycer for the test suggestion. Before coming back to the forum, I ordered a Marble's Bullseye from Midway USA. They aren't much money plus Midway had speedloaders on sale and I needed some (consolidate freight, you know). AJMD gave the Bullseye a glowing review on here and on Midway's site which sealed the deal. The aperture sight sounds like it should help me.

[fastlane604]

AJ,
Thanks for the link to the pictures and comprehensive explanations of aperture sights. As noted on the previous post, I ordered a Marble's Bullseye from Midway USA.

[raye7r]

Was wondering how that sight worked for you and if any problems. I got one coming in 44-40, 20 inch, round barrel, believe it's a legacy model 59203. Is this the sight I need http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=317428 or the longer one. Thank you for any reply.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Welcome to the forum!

You'll love that gun. We have a real genuine 92 guru here that goes by Nate Kiowa Jones http://www.stevesgunz.com that will prolly tell me I'm wrong, but here goes:


The rear sight is in a dovetail groove and can be moved for windage. If the front sight is of the dovetail sort (some Pumas are not, the sight is part of the barrel band), it too can be moved for windage.

Use a brass drift or similar and brace the rifle on something that will not scratch or mar the finish and drift that rear site over to the left. 4.5" at 25 is pretty far, so I'd start with moving it 1/8".

If you get to the point where the sight is sticking too far to the left for appearance sake and the front is a dovetail too, you can move it to the right.

If the front is not dovetailed, you can have it removed from the barrel band and a new one dovetailed into the barrel or you can have the receiver drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The dovetail will most likely be way cheaper than the D&T+new Williams or Lyman 66

What he said.
And Welcome! Also, you said you bought the Bullseye. Some folks like it some don't. The most common complaint has been it sticks up too high.
The Williams FP is a good receiver sight but you will need to D&T the receiver. I offer a less expensive alternative. This is my Adjustable Bolt-Mounted Peep Sight Safety Replacement
Works good for my old eye's.

[KSFlatheadhunter]

Welcome to the forum!

You'll love that gun. We have a real genuine 92 guru here that goes by Nate Kiowa Jones http://www.stevesgunz.com that will prolly tell me I'm wrong, but here goes:


The rear sight is in a dovetail groove and can be moved for windage. If the front sight is of the dovetail sort (some Pumas are not, the sight is part of the barrel band), it too can be moved for windage.

Use a brass drift or similar and brace the rifle on something that will not scratch or mar the finish and drift that rear site over to the left. 4.5" at 25 is pretty far, so I'd start with moving it 1/8".

If you get to the point where the sight is sticking too far to the left for appearance sake and the front is a dovetail too, you can move it to the right.

If the front is not dovetailed, you can have it removed from the barrel band and a new one dovetailed into the barrel or you can have the receiver drilled and tapped for a receiver sight. The dovetail will most likely be way cheaper than the D&T+new Williams or Lyman 66

What he said.
And Welcome! Also, you said you bought the Bullseye. Some folks like it some don't. The most common complaint has been it sticks up too high.
The Williams FP is a good receiver sight but you will need to D&T the receiver. I offer a less expensive alternative. This is my Adjustable Bolt-Mounted Peep Sight Safety Replacement
Works good for my old eye's.

I installed one of Steve's bolt peep sights last week and shot it Sunday afternoon and I am really impressed! Good sight picture, sturdy construction, easy to adjust elevation. It is a good alternative to the Lyman or Williams receiver mount.

My .02,
Darin

[Griff]

Since LSI has imported their "PUMA" from two different manufacturers, the curious cat I am, wonders which it is that you got. Oh yea, pictures are still welcome!!!!

[raye7r]

First of all, thank you all for the welcome. Probly like most I have been lurking around for a while and know their are experts here. I don't intend to hijack this thread either. I don't actually have the gun yet. Was gonna order it yesterday, but having 2d thoughts/questions. I don't need the gun, BUT I want it. Partly for the nostalgia, and partly cause it's a blow out price. I can't afford 59 bucks for a peep right now (I like it and will probly regret it), thats why I was hoping to hear how the cheap Marble worked out. The gun is on gunbroker for 369 bucks. Their internet guy is going on vacation and they have pulled their ads till the 25th. I called them yesterday, they have several left. It is a model 59203 which appears to be a legacy model. I can buy cowboy loads 225 Gr. at 761fps LFN 50 rds for 22.58. Thats about as cheap as I have found. If anyone is out their, would like to know what you think about the ammo, should it be accurate in the puma or another weight preferable? OK for Indiana deer out to 100 yards or so? Thanks. Oh yeah, if I call today, they can get it shipped today.

[Chas.]

The price and model designation would indicate that it's a Rossi flavor Puma, rather than Chiappa.

[raye7r]

I can't realy tell by pics, is it a solid receiver or removable side plate. Also what do you think about the ammo, I am calling them at 10

[Griff]

First of all, thank you all for the welcome. Probly like most I have been lurking around for a while and know their are experts here. I don't intend to hijack this thread either. I don't actually have the gun yet. Was gonna order it yesterday, but having 2d thoughts/questions. I don't need the gun, BUT I want it. Partly for the nostalgia, and partly cause it's a blow out price. I can't afford 59 bucks for a peep right now (I like it and will probly regret it), thats why I was hoping to hear how the cheap Marble worked out. The gun is on gunbroker for 369 bucks. Their internet guy is going on vacation and they have pulled their ads till the 25th. I called them yesterday, they have several left. It is a model 59203 which appears to be a legacy model. I can buy cowboy loads 225 Gr. at 761fps LFN 50 rds for 22.58. Thats about as cheap as I have found. If anyone is out their, would like to know what you think about the ammo, should it be accurate in the puma or another weight preferable? OK for Indiana deer out to 100 yards or so? Thanks. Oh yeah, if I call today, they can get it shipped today.

Some guys like that sight, some don't. I'm one that don't. But, I haven't tried it either. I'm just SO used to using a six o'clock hold on my standard irons or a tang peep that I'd probably have a hard time adjusting the openness of that sight. Plus as I get older, my depth of focus is shrinking. I find I NEED the peep more and more to see both the target and the front sight.

I'm not familar with that model number, but if it's an LSI mdl 1892, that's probably the Rossi at that price. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. And if it's the Armi-Sport version, then that's definately a "Blow-out" price! FYI, AFAIK, the only levergun that was called a "Legacy" is one of the Winchester 94AE models that came in the late '90s & early 00's. They generally had nicer wood than the standard mdl 94 and while I'm no fan of the mdl 94 in a pistol caliber or of the 94AE, they were nice rifles.

Even if that ammo is measured outta pistol, it'll only have slightly more poop outta a 20" carbine... and that'd be borderline for deer, IMO. Especially the larger ones. Doable, yes, good choice, not so much. Unfortunately, not only has the 3 large American ammo companies have largely ignored the nostalgia market, so to have others. With the exception of that Winchester cowboy load, they don't offer a decent .44-40 hunting load. Their 1st and primary concern is making their ammo safe for use in the oldest and weakest actions it was ever chambered in. Okay, that's a viable concern, as on the whole we're just not as knowledgeable as we once were. The geberal public probably doesn't understand the difference between the .44WCF and the .44-40. OTH, reloading with quality components and sensible loads can really make the .44-40 sing!

IMNSHO, if you're sticking to factory ammo and your primary interest is deer hunting, the MagTech 200grain FN @ a MV of 1180fps is a far better choice. Otherwise, I'd get the 1892 chambered in .44RemMag or .45Colt.

[raye7r]

Thanks, I have 2 boxes of that ammo in my shopping cart for hunting purposes. I know it will be a fun gun. And seems the price is the best I have found. I do reload and may get around to some dies for it. Thanks again. Gonna call at 10 (when they open).