Open sights - targets vs hunting

[71fan]

I really want to use an open-sighted levergun on my elk hunt this fall. I would like to open a discussion about this.

I will only do it if I can feel confident about making a shot out to, and possibly slightly past, 200 yds.

I shoot a lot of silhouette and paper out to 200 yds, occasionally further, and feel confident about my abilities to at least 200 yds, AT THE RANGE. I have settled on the sights that work the best for these purposes, and my rifles and I get along very well.

Here's the thing...for four years now I've taken these same rifles into the field hunting deer in CA, NV, UT and WY. What I've learned is that the same sights simply don't work in the field. When you get an animal out there past 100 yards partially obscurred by brush, rocks, shade, or whatever, it's a heck of a lot different than a black object against a light background. In several instances, I just couldn't get a good view of my sight on the animal.

I have the rear figured out. I've been using twighlight apertures for a long time and like them. It's the fronts that I'm worried about. I use black posts at the range, and sometimes a cross-hair insert in a globe sight. No bueno in the field.

Here's a few of my thoughts / ideas:
-Based on the what was available and selling in the time period before scopes were widely adopted, the ivory bead or Sheard / gold bead seemed to prevail as an upgrade on factory rifles, which must mean something.
-Ned Roberts, who wrote extensively about shooting and hunting in the late 1800s and early 1900s, repeatedly outfitted his rifles with a lyman rear aperture and red ivory bead front sight.
-I've shot a few rifles with the XS front sight (wide black post with small white line) and think that may be the answer.
-My muzzleloader has a fine bead fiber-optic front which has worked very well and put a lot of meat in the freezer. Maybe that is the answer.
-I painted a circle/cross-hair globe insert white and used it on my M71 at the range and it worked pretty good. I think the globe may be too dark in the field and the white wouldn't even show up, rather it may be silhouetted and appear black. (Neat sight picture on targets though)

So...here we go. What do you guys think about open-sights and longish distances in the field? What is your preference for front sights?

[Sarge]

I get along fine with a flat-topped conventional back sight, and a fine white bead up front. The white bead helps a lot at dusk & dawn when much good game shooting occurs. I've tried about everything and my take is this- time and ammo spent mastering one set of sights, beats money spent on two or three fancy sights. Work with a single load, that'll do what you need to accomplish, and master it over the maximum range you might use it.

Can't get much readier than that.

[El Chivo]

I like the fine crosshair with the circle in the middle - doesn't obscure much, just makes a slightly hazy ring around the target. Haven't used it on game but it works well with my brown-on-brown cardboard deer cutout. I'm not crazy about posts except for silhouette.

I also like the Lyman circle with the hole in the middle, although it might be a little slower to acquire because the ring is thicker. The idea is to focus on the target, not the sight. Whatever's in the center gets zapped.

[victor]

get yourself one of those life-sized realistic deer targets and set it up
in different shooting situations.shoot at it in sun/shade scenarios.pick
a front sight that works best for you.I have trouble seeing my gold bead in the woods so I put some bright orange nail polish on it and can see it alot better.

[madman4570]

Check out the Williams Fire Sight.
I think if I could have my perfect "Hunting Long Range" open sight it would be a good sized rear "peep" to let plenty of light in and provide enough field of view for being fast on target, coupled with a narrow orange raybar style front sight.

But if its only that the black front sight is the problem and everything else is fine,lightly coat it with a orange or whatever color nail polish.Just check out gun at range before hunting with it!

[dr walker]

I use the XS front sights on most of my rifles. They take some getting used to, but work great against both light and dark backgrounds.

[Don McDowell]

Try making a front blade sight from a copper penny. Those things really show up good in low light conditions, yet aren't as offensive as a silver blade in bright sun.

[COSteve]

First paint the rear tip of your front sight with white paint as a base color. Then use a Krylon Bright Paint Pen (I like fluorescent orange) and paint over the white dot. That really lights up the front blade. If it still isn't bright enough, then go with the Williams FireSight.

[Dave]

You are exactly right that a scope is probably more helpful in enabling you to see your target in the field than it's role as a sight. Iron gives you an aiming point but if you can't see your critter well enough to pick your shot it is hard to place your round.

A front sight with a fine ivory or brass bead is a good choice. The smaller the bead the less of your animal it covers so you have a finer aiming point and can still see your target. An elk is pretty big so that is in your favor.

It can not be avoided though that you may not get a shot you are comfortable with using irons. You may just need to accept you can get good hits with iron and no magnification and go on and shoot. Iron is the same as a 1 power scope. If you are shooting a lot of silhoutte at 200 with iron then you should be able to put a round in the vitals of an elk. With my Winchester 94 with the factory front bead I can keep all rounds in a 6" bull with most inside 4" at 150 yards from sitting so I don't want to shoot farther than that with it unless I am just slinging lead at a varmint.

Marble and Williams both offer any height front sight you want with 1/16" or 3/32" diameter front sights. A lot of critters have been put in the bag by guys using them. You can get gold or ivory.

[madman4570]

First paint the rear tip of your front sight with white paint as a base color. Then use a Krylon Bright Paint Pen (I like fluorescent orange) and paint over the white dot. That really lights up the front blade. If it still isn't bright enough, then go with the Williams FireSight.

Steve,
Yep, Your's is a better way than mine. See why I love this Forum(learn better ways from you sharper guys)

[AJMD429]

Consider getting a FIBEROPTIC like the Williams 'FireSight' - BUT - get some replacement fiberoptic material in yellow, & green, and see if you don't like those colors better for low-light hunting. I really like the green for twilight-woods visibility. The darned orange is just way too bright and you can't see your target!

I still prefer scopes for past 100 yards or hunting in twilight.

[KirkD]

Most of my hunting is done with open iron sights. For some of my rifles, I will take some white paint or White-out that typists use, and put it on the top edge of the front blade sight. Use the right kind, and you can scrape it off with your fingernail after hunting season.

[JB]

Most of my hunting is done with open iron sights. For some of my rifles, I will take some white paint or White-out that typists use, and put it on the top edge of the front blade sight. Use the right kind, and you can scrape it off with your fingernail after hunting season.

Good point about the correction fluid being easily removed. I've bought a few use guns and had a heck of a time scrubbing off whatever paint they slopped all over the front sight. The correction fluid can be removed or touched up whenever needed easily.

[J Miller]

I wonder what our 60 ± year old ancestors did 120 years ago?

Lets seee ....... hmmmmmm I know, they'd be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .

You know I've read that some where before

Joe

[BigSky56]

Chad, I use a marbles sourdough front sight with my williams twilight peep on my 71 & 94, I believe that williams and marbles and redfield use to make them, in bright sunlight you can use a flame to smoke the blade to get rid of the halo effect, I keep mine polished up as I hunt dark timber. brownells or midway should have them and you could check the williams website. danny

[Mike D.]

I'm 64 and wear corrective lenses to read, yet still prefer the Lyman Ivory tipped No 4 hunting front sight and either 21 or 56 receiver sight if the gun wears one. If not, the original barrel sights will do. Otherwise, my "new" bolt guns have scopes. All bases are covered out to 400 yds. Beyond that, it's a no-go. Not because the rifles aren't capable, but because the thought of wounding an animal frightens me.

[hfcable]

here are some alternative front sightst that had their uses and popularity in days gone by:

a type of see thru/tunnel front sight, that allow you to see the bead and the target and surrounds, were available in different bead sizes and colors. i have one on my 1894 38/55 that was made in 1895; have shot running caribou with it and a tang sight combined:



the king triple bead fron tsight offers three beads of differentcolors and sizes, flips quicklu between them. they even made these to replace the pinned in blade front on 94 carbines. this one is on an early extra light weight 1894 .30wcf 'pencil barrel' rifle:



this on eis a rotatable bead front sight, features two different sized beads one in ivory one in brass, seen here on an 1886 45/70 my main 'go to' hunting rifle:





this one has worked well for me at ranges up to 200 yds.

these can be found on ebay and other places if you look a while, and there are some other ones with similar versatility of course.

[kimwcook]

I made the same front sight that Don's talking about for my Shiloh Sharps. I haven't used it a lot but I did get a chance to use it yesterday when I made it to the range and shot my first BP cartridges through it. It worked great on a white paper plate background and a 2.5" orange dot. The rounds not so much. I was only shooting at the 50 yd. range and was more interested in seeing what it'd do than really being sticky about the accuracy. But they all went bang and I hit the plate with all of my shots.

[71fan]

Thank you all for the ideas and advice. I'm still processing it all. I believe anything gold/brass with rounded edges (round blades and beads) can catch a funny reflection that can throw you off. I like the simple idea of painting sights I'm already using - that may work very well.

I think the idea of taking a deer target into the field and placing in different lighting is a good one. I will do that and take several guns with different sight setups. Actually, I can do it in the canyon behind my house and not actually shoot, just look through the sights. That's a keeper.

Mike D - I love the No. 4 sight - it's my favorite front but they are so hard to find. The best sight picture I think I've ever seen on a levergun, for quick shots, was an express rear with the platinum vertical strip and the No. 4 front on an 1894. It was one continuous white line leading right up to the target. It was so natura. However, I think that setup is too basic for the long range stuff.

I sure love those funky old interchangeable sights, especially the King triple. I've never seen one for sale, but I guess I haven't looked very hard. I would like to get one for one of my 1886s.

[71fan]

http://cgi.ebay.com/antique-Lyman-No-4- ... 58875040c0

[hfcable]

Thank you all for the ideas and advice. I'm still processing it all. I believe anything gold/brass with rounded edges (round blades and beads) can catch a funny reflection that can throw you off. I like the simple idea of painting sights I'm already using - that may work very well.

I think the idea of taking a deer target into the field and placing in different lighting is a good one. I will do that and take several guns with different sight setups. Actually, I can do it in the canyon behind my house and not actually shoot, just look through the sights. That's a keeper.

Mike D - I love the No. 4 sight - it's my favorite front but they are so hard to find. The best sight picture I think I've ever seen on a levergun, for quick shots, was an express rear with the platinum vertical strip and the No. 4 front on an 1894. It was one continuous white line leading right up to the target. It was so natura. However, I think that setup is too basic for the long range stuff.

I sure love those funky old interchangeable sights, especially the King triple. I've never seen one for sale, but I guess I haven't looked very hard. I would like to get one for one of my 1886s.

i think there is one on ebay right now, tho it is getting pretty pricey, sometimes they go cheaper:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1743wt_903

[hfcable]

here is a triple bead king on ebay...kinda pricye though

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1743wt_903



[Oops, sorry about this double post.]