Colt Disappointment Update

[Kansas Ed]

As many of you remember, I purchased my dream handgun last year...to my complete and utter disappointment. I ordered new from Colt a SAA 7.5" Nickel in 38-40. When I got the firearm, the action was lame and gritty, the cylinder throats were .003 undersized, the hammer axis pin was in crooked which caused the hammer to stick in the down position, there were machine marks in the top strap, and the nickel plating flaked off of the gun in less than 100 rounds. I sent it back, and told them while they were at it to add Walnut grips to the gun.

When I called to have it repaired they told me to send it "Next day Air"...to which I replied: "Next Day?" Yep they wanted it next day and said they would reimburse. So at the cost of almost $80 I did as instructed....they sent me a reimbursement check for $30...now I'm peeved....

So I call a few weeks ago and dispute it. To which they put me on the line with their sales manager. He tells me that they had changed their policy and that I would receive a check for the difference. At that point I told him that I was concerned for the Colt company. That I could have bought 3 Uberti's for the price of the Colt and every one of them would have been much higher quality than what I received from their company. I told him that I was concerned that after watching the Icons of Winchester and Marlin close their doors, that it looked like Colt was headed down the same path. I told him that if they didn't want their jobs shipped overseas then they needed to see that they produced a quality product for the price that they asked, and that I could forgive 1 quality escape...but it appeared that there was no quality at their company at all to send out a gun with that many quality escapes.

He told me that he was also concerned at what I was telling him and that he was writing down all of my concerns and that he would immediately talk to the Quality Manager about the situation....I thought "yea right..." In one ear and out the other.....

So I called yesterday and got a nice lady on the phone. She told me that she would find out the status of my revolver and call me back today.....I didn't expect her to....

Today I get a call from her telling me that the gun will be ready to ship by the end of the week...but it may take a couple of days longer because the Quality Manager wants to personally inspect the gun before it's shipped.

So...perhaps my discussion didn't fall on deaf ears, and maybe...just maybe...they are starting to take their quality seriously....I hope so...I don't want to see them shut down too...

Ed

[wm]

I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't you might look into buying USFA revolver. I have two and as far as I can tell they are as good as anything Colt has ever made.

Wm

[Mike D.]

As far as I am concerned, Colt has not made a quality SA since WWII. That's the reason that I have only purchased 1st Generation guns. I didn't like the look, or feel of the so-called 2nd generations and the 3rd Gen Colts appealed even less.. The hammer spur has a lousy curve and the guns feel different.

[KirkD]

... At that point I told him that I was concerned for the Colt company. That I could have bought 3 Uberti's for the price of the Colt and every one of them would have been much higher quality than what I received from their company. I told him that I was concerned that after watching the Icons of Winchester and Marlin close their doors, that it looked like Colt was headed down the same path. I told him that if they didn't want their jobs shipped overseas then they needed to see that they produced a quality product for the price that they asked, and that I could forgive 1 quality escape...but it appeared that there was no quality at their company at all to send out a gun with that many quality escapes.

Way to go! Preach it bro! I'm glad you said what you did. They need to hear stuff like from people who are concerned. Tonight I stepped out in my backyard and 'read the book' over a stump with my Colt SAA made in 1882. A company with a history that far back needs to resurrect their pride, remember the glory days, and produce a product worth of them.

[bdhold]

Colt is probably making weapons to collect rather than to shoot.
After all, they're devalued when you shoot them.
Crying shame, though.

[Hobie]

Amen. I was looking at a 3rd gen .44 Special New Frontier. The color case was about the same as an Uberti, washed out, and the fit of the stocks was less than perfect. I expect more for the money that gun was asking and it was a new gun. I've had no such issues with ANY of my 3 USFA guns.

[gak]

That's a stinking shame. I hope that you "just" got an odd bad one. My 2008 (rare/non-cataloged .44 Sp--not a convertible) is perfect and as nice as any I've seen come out of the factory since and maybe including the 2nd Gens, which I do like,...but echo the same affection as another poster's for the 1st gen features. Mine is as good as anything I've seen from USFA and I've had a few, and have one now. That may be faint or odd praise, as the comparison should be the other way around--given Colt's storied old west history--but it's true USFAs are held in particularly high regard in the QC department, and rightly so...thus the vector of comparison.


I hope they clean this up for you. I like to believe they will--as I'm sure you do in triplicate!

[tman]

Colt is probably making weapons to collect rather than to shoot.
After all, they're devalued when you shoot them.
Crying shame, though.

sadly, you see more and more of this. high dollar firearm manufacturer's selling shoddilly manufactored arms at outragious prices, hoping nobody actually shoots them it killed winchester, marlin, and now looks like colt is following suit. and they will blame their demise on everything and anybody other then themselves'

[brno602]

It's the modern world nobody cares! That is the cold truth sad but true, except for a few . Most just don't care you bought it too bad use it as is.
Remington was the worst for this at least how they treated Canadian customers.
I have a feel good story though I bought my 602 back in 87 or 88 lost the sight hood wrote the company yes wrote with pen and paper, it came off in heavy brush , they sent me a new one! It took 6 months but still better than I would expect from anyone now.
I gave up on U.S made stuff I was hoping Rossi would be okay but they too fail as they really do not care about custamor service!
Want service buy a Sako or Tika they will bend over back words to see it done right. But only if you write the company they seem to want you to talk to them?.Back in the 80s my brother sent in a Marlin .22 auto loader he bought in the late 60s they fixed it no Charge! forget them day's where the old day's.
I know I am a bitter guy.Grumpy old man now lol

[Old Savage]

Guess I have been fortunate, Two New Frontiers and a 3rd gen 44Spl have been great. Hope yours works out to be what you want Ed.

[CEMENTHEAD]

I'd have to say I agree about Colt as of late......HOWEVER, I got to fondle a brand new Colt SAA, nickeled, 7-1/2", in 38 Special. To tell you the truth this thing was a piece of perfection.....I was shocked. The fitting of parts, the nickeling, the fit of the grips, timing of the action..... all A+! Maybe that is a change or maybe a mistake......dunno. Thanks, Tom

[olyinaz]

I'm very interested to hear the follow up on this. Best of luck to you!

Oly

[firefuzz]

I had my falling out with Colt in the early '90's and haven't looked at their products since. I always try to support U.S. made products and think it's a shame that American companies can't or won't supply what the American consumer wants of the same or better quality and at a competative price with non-U.S. makers.

Rob

[Griff]

Colt did have a period in the early '90s where quality wasn't very good. I have 2 3rd gens and 1 2nd gen and all three are nice. They were, however, all built at one end or the other of the decade called the '70s. I have to admit, that both my 3rd gen guns have been shot so much that they've required rebuilding.

I have seen others that have bought new guns, of production in this century that are every bit as nice as anything Colt has produced in the past. It doesn't surprise me that a gun or two or three slips by that is less than satisfactory, after all, they are built by humans.

[COSteve]

I wish I could say that I believe the people from Colt were actually going to take to heart anything the OP said, but the fact is that they have heard those complaints many, many times before. While they will placate an irate owner of a problem pistol and sound as if they care, the fact is that the basic production and QC approach they are currently using won't change anytime soon.

They are simply living off of their history as is Smith & Wesson. Not long from now they will fold their tent or be bought out by a foreign company who still wants to produce quality pieces and they'll wonder how it all went wrong.

[KCSO]

From a COLT box on an 1860 Army revolver...

Assembled by H and R- ship to Colt- assembled from imported parts. Last COLT I ever bought 1981.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I bought a Colt 1911 during the unfortunate period in the early 90's. It's fine unless you want to insert a magazine.

[bdhold]

you can always throw it at the perp

[Brian in FL]

FYI, Marlin is not shutting down. They are simply relocating their manufactury from Connecticut. And, Winchester has reintroduced their model 94, albeit at first in a limited edition, but, apparently, they have plans to go into regular production in the future.

[2571]

Wife inherited a few bucks. Split the money 3 ways & told me & daughter to buy something luxurious so as always remember the deceased. Kid bought college textbooks. Wife bought an newspaper-artist drawing of her winning a case in federal court. I bought a $1700 Colt SAA.

Problem pistol from the moment I took it out of the box. Colt treated me like an idiot; said return it and they have it back to me in 8-10 weeks. Took it to Magnaport who fixed it about 12 minutes, for free. Diagnosis: tyical shoddy Colt grinding.

And I thought my daughter was being foolish spending her found money on books!

Glad they treated you better.

[Mutt]

I also have several Colts 3rd gen. None will shoot to point of aim. I also have a Cimarron which hits where ever a aim , out of the box . No cleaning the first time , just shooting. Does really good. Colt avg = $ 1200+ Cimarron avg + $ 450 + . I had a letter in one of the Colt boxes saying that " Colts were made today in the custom shop for collectors .
Now what does tell ME ?


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Mutt

[stretch]

I just bought a series 80 Gold Cup used. Definitely
a mixed bag:

I dunno when it was built, but it needed about
15 hours of work. Tuned the extractor, fixed
the slide and the firing pin stop once I got it
apart, modified the bushing so that the plunger
could be gotten out without putting a big scratch
in it, (polished the gouges out of the plunger from the
pistol being previoudly disassembled!), did my best to polish
out the grinding marks in the barrel throating, deburred
the slide where the extractor pokes through, neatened
up the bevels and grinding marks on the barrel hood,
polished the chamber, deburred the underside of the slide,
and (no fault of Colt's) replaced the Shok-Buff. Tool marks
everywhere inside it, and I'm NOT talking subtle!

It shoots pretty well now - 3" groups at 20 yds without
really trying, as the shooter was getting tired.

The sights are VERY good, and the trigger is nothing short
of angelic. Whether it's stock Colt or not I couldn't say - but
that trigger is unbelievable. Think and it goes bang.

-Stretch

[COSteve]

That's a real shame for that Colt. My recently acquired NIB 7½" 357mag Uberti Cattleman was fine right out of the box. And after a $24 spring set and a bit of stoning, it's downright wonderful. Action is smooth as as a baby's butt, trigger is pretty crisp at about 4-4½lbs, and it shoots to POI at 25yds with both 38spl+P and 357mag loads.

I guess my $300 Uberti ($380 including holster and belt) stands up just fine to the $1,200 Prancing Pony.

[Sixgun]

That is somewhat unusual for a single action to leave the factory in that crummy condition. There are a few things to keep in mind about "todays" Colt factory.

1.) They really could care less about their reputation concerning civilian guns. They are making huge bucks by selling M-16's all over the world.

2.) Their civilian gun department is there by the grace of the owners. My prediction is that the end of Colt civilian guns (except the AR's) will be a thing of the past in the next couple of years.

3.) The guys who make the civilian guns are a bunch of "old heads" who are still in the union. When they retire, read #2.

4.) Buy all the single actions you can afford. They will double in price---read #2-------------------------------------Sixgun

[the telegraphist]

A month ago I purchased a new 3rd gen SAA 45. The fit and finish is excellent, only complaint was the trigger was very creepy and a bit heavy at 5lbs. Just got her back from the gunsmith, trigger now 2.5lbs absolutely no creep. She goes to the range on Sunday for her first outing with a variety of loads. I would buy another Colt without hesitation. In fact I aim to when funds permit.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Are the current Colt SAA's made entirely here in the USA or are they assembled here from Italian parts?

[gak]

All USA parts and assembly, no Italian. For the SAA it's a myth. It's been covered before, but someone will chime in here on what older (non SAA) model the "Italian parts" applied to.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

All USA parts and assembly, no Italian. For the SAA it's a myth. It's been covered before, but someone will chime in here on what older (non SAA) model the "Italian parts" applied to.

Perhaps they were for some of the black powder reproductions back in the 70's and 80's?

[J Miller]

The failed Colt Cowboy SA from about 10 years ago was Italian made, and either finished by Colt or for colt. Same gun was and is I think imported by EMF or someone similar. It uses Ruger's conversion transfer bar action under license from Ruger.

Joe

[the telegraphist]

I benched my Colt SAA 45 today, used 250g RNFP and 258g LSWC tried three powders Unique/Universal/231, the piece did not like 231 at all, the other two shot ragged one holers over 7 yards, was about to move out to 15 and 25 when down came the rain, so that will have to wait for another time. Spot on for windage and about 1 inch high. I am pleased so far.

[J Miller]

I benched my Colt SAA 45 today, used 250g RNFP and 258g LSWC tried three powders Unique/Universal/231, the piece did not like 231 at all, the other two shot ragged one holers over 7 yards, was about to move out to 15 and 25 when down came the rain, so that will have to wait for another time. Spot on for windage and about 1 inch high. I am pleased so far.

telegraphist,
What bullet / charge did you use with the 231? I've used it more in my .45s than anything else and it's always been good for me.
I've found if I keep my 231 charges up to 7.1grs or above the accuracy is good. If I drop it lower, such as cowboy load level it's dismal.

Joe

[the telegraphist]

Gday Joe, I used 7.1 of 231 with a 250g RNFP by Westcastings which my Colt clone shoots really well. But the Colt gave me nothing better than 3 inches. Same bullet under the other powders was really sweet. Used 8 and 7.5 of Unique with the same pill, 7.8 of Universal also. The SWC pill I used 8 of Unique. They were the trial loads I have initially made.

[Mike Hunter]

I heard a rumor from a former Colt employee that Colt no longer manufactures firearms. The job all the production out, and basically only have a HQ & marketing staff.
Does anyone here know more? And if they are manufacturing firearms, where is the manufacturing facility?

Mike

[J Miller]

Gday Joe, I used 7.1 of 231 with a 250g RNFP by Westcastings which my Colt clone shoots really well. But the Colt gave me nothing better than 3 inches. Same bullet under the other powders was really sweet. Used 8 and 7.5 of Unique with the same pill, 7.8 of Universal also. The SWC pill I used 8 of Unique. They were the trial loads I have initially made.

Those are all good loads. I guess that bullet and 231 don't quite work well together in your Colt.
Joe

[IridiumRed]

It's the modern world nobody cares! That is the cold truth sad but true, except for a few . Most just don't care you bought it too bad use it as is.
Remington was the worst for this at least how they treated Canadian customers.
I have a feel good story though I bought my 602 back in 87 or 88 lost the sight hood wrote the company yes wrote with pen and paper, it came off in heavy brush , they sent me a new one! It took 6 months but still better than I would expect from anyone now.
I gave up on U.S made stuff I was hoping Rossi would be okay but they too fail as they really do not care about custamor service!
Want service buy a Sako or Tika they will bend over back words to see it done right. But only if you write the company they seem to want you to talk to them?.Back in the 80s my brother sent in a Marlin .22 auto loader he bought in the late 60s they fixed it no Charge! forget them day's where the old day's.
I know I am a bitter guy.Grumpy old man now lol

Sadly yes, a lot of the old "reliable" companies are falling off.

But doesn't mean that there aren't people doing good work

I hear there are people making GREAT single actions in Hartford. Under a blue dome. But now they're called USFA.... not colt

[DPris]

Joe,
This keeps coming up, I'll say again that the Colt Cowboy was not Italian made.
The frame was cast in Canada, the guns were assembled & finished by Colt in Hartford.
That came direct from conversations with a former member of the Cowboy project team at Colt, and a later outside consultant for Colt on the Cowboy just before it was dropped.
It's not now & never has been imported by anyone in any other version.

Mike,
Colt outsources many (if not most) parts nowdays, but final machinework, fitting, assembly, and finishing is still done in-house.

Red,
USFA has been out from under the old Colt blue dome for several years now. They're located a mile or two down the road from the old Colt factory.

Denis

[J Miller]

Dennis,

When the Colt Cowboys first came out they were reviewed in all the magazines. I've got a couple of them. Those stated the gun was Italian. I've got all those books boxed up in the basement and can't remember which ones I read it in. It looks as if I'll have to dig the boxes out and read up on them again. Then I'll know weather what I read was true or a figment of my imagination.

Till then, I'll believe my memories and accept the fact they could possibly maybe be flawed.

One more project to the "roundtoit" list.

Joe

[DPris]

Joe,
I think your memory's off on this one.
I seriously doubt Colt would have put that out, even if it were true.
My two sources, whom I have zero reason to doubt, were both directly involved with the Cowboy, one at the beginning & one at the end of production. The first I talked to after he left Colt & while he was working at a company that imported clones. The second is the head of his own custom shop & well-known nationwide. The discussions with the second came about because the Cowboy project was scheduled for re-vamping & I was maneuvering for a test sample for publication. The project was terminated about a year afterwards when Colt decided the Cowboy wasn't selling well enough (& wouldn't) to justify the expense.

Both, since those conversations occurred while the Cowboy was still in production, asked me not to mention the Canadian sourcing. While the gun was still in production, I didn't.
If Colt was so sensitive about the Canadian parts for the last few years of its production, I can't hardly see them announcing to the world up front when the gun was new that it came from anywhere else but Colt.

The Cowboy's action was unique & is not currently made or imported by anybody, Italians or otherwise.

The other persistent rumor is Czechoslovakian origin, and I have no idea where that one came from.

Denis

[Hagler]

Joe & Denis,

Please, read this:

https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/ ... tBlack.pdf

...which tells of how Colt imported Italian black powder gun parts, with the aid of the late Lou Imperato (of the modern Henry Reapeating Arms). It is a very interesting story.

Shawn

[J Miller]

Dennis,
How about we do this, I'll see if I can find the articles I'm thinking of, and if I can I'll scan them in and post them. I've got them somewhere, I never throw away a gun magazine. Got them all the way back to the early 70s when I started buying them. At that point if I did read what my memory says I read then I'm just reporting what I read.
If I'm wrong we'll know that too.
How's that for a plan?

Shawn,
I've read about the black powder guns before. Italian or not those I've seen were really nice.

Joe

[DPris]

Joe,
Yup, if you can find anything in print that says that gun was made in Italy, I'd certainly like to see it.

Shawn,
The percussion "Colts" re-introductions were well known to have Italian origins as far as parts went. Those were a different matter than the Cowboy.
Thanks.

Denis

[DPris]

Joe,
Just got word back from my Colt guy.
Alphacasting in Canada did the frames, Colt was doing the machining on them in-house when the Cowboy was finally dropped.

I found one new product review by Metcalf in '99, no mention of Italian origin.

Denis

[Griff]

Denis,

That's what I remember about the Colt Cowboys also... trigger guard and backstrap were investment cast and finished in CT by Colt. As for other parts... I don't know. On-Line copy of a review around it's introduction... no mention of Italian involvement: http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastcoltcowboya.htm

Another on-line copy of a review from the times: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... ntent;col1

I think that if there'd been a known or even strongly rumored Italian connection, it would have been reported. When I bought my EMF copy of the 1851 in 1986 it was known that the 2nd Gen Colt BP guns were made of Italian parts and finished in Hartford. The only difference between my ASM 1851 and my Colt 1851 2nd gen guns are the screws and pin placement on the barrel assemble. (Other'n markings and finish).

[DPris]

Griff,

Joe may show us up wrong after all, he's usually pretty knowledgeable.

And- A full box of rocks as a prize to anybody who can produce a printed article claiming proof that the Cowboy came out of Czechoslovakia!

Denis

[J Miller]

Denis,

Just got back from the range. I'm plum tuckered out. I'll get to looking for those magazines as quick as I can. They are burried in the basement ... somewhere. Once I find them I got to search through about 5 boxes of magazines. I'll start with Legendary guns of the west and then go from there. As soon as I find anything I'll post it.

Joe

[DPris]

No hurry.
I shoulda been at the range today, too, got a Marlin .410 here I need to get done.
Too blasted windy.

Denis

[Hagler]

Joe & Denis,

No problem. I was just trying to help jog some memories, in case someone misremembered something.

Shawn

[Lawyer Daggit]

Don't these guys learn.

A textbook example of quality management is what happened to Harley Davidson. They seemed to get their act together and now thrive.

The problem I believe is that guns for the most part are now assembled- they are not manufactured by craftsmen or people who care about the product.

I have a Remington model 7 made in 1984 and a Model 7 MS- a custom shop offering now 8 years old, that is not as well made as my general production 1984 model 7.

I recently looked at getting another model 7- in .308, on examining it was horrified, the in letting was rough, and the bedding looked like someone had deposited two blobs of Mr Wrigley's finest in the channel and then simply dropped the barrel on top.

This is on a rifle that costs about $1,700 in Australia (our exchange rate is only a few cents off dollar for dollar with the USD).

The fellow in the gun shop told me all Remington's are like that these days and that the American manufacturer who is really trying these days is Savage. I have recently read a report on an interview with their managing director and he seemed committed to his product- (and was a shooter, not a bean counter). I looked closely at a Savage and after inspecting three or four different ones in the shop and after trying an Accutrigger and after looking at the bedding on the stock I bought a Model 10pc.

It seems to be an excellently made rifle. Good to see someone in the industry cares.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Dennis,

When the Colt Cowboys first came out they were reviewed in all the magazines. I've got a couple of them. Those stated the gun was Italian. I've got all those books boxed up in the basement and can't remember which ones I read it in. It looks as if I'll have to dig the boxes out and read up on them again. Then I'll know weather what I read was true or a figment of my imagination.

Till then, I'll believe my memories and accept the fact they could possibly maybe be flawed.

One more project to the "roundtoit" list.

Joe

Joe,
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Colts 2nd gen and 3rd Generation cap and ball revolvers? Those were uberti parts.

The Cowboys were investment cast slightly larger frame guns. I don't think any of the Italian maker were doing investment casting back then.

[J Miller]

Dennis,

When the Colt Cowboys first came out they were reviewed in all the magazines. I've got a couple of them. Those stated the gun was Italian. I've got all those books boxed up in the basement and can't remember which ones I read it in. It looks as if I'll have to dig the boxes out and read up on them again. Then I'll know weather what I read was true or a figment of my imagination.

Till then, I'll believe my memories and accept the fact they could possibly maybe be flawed.

One more project to the "roundtoit" list.

Joe

Joe,
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Colts 2nd gen and 3rd Generation cap and ball revolvers? Those were uberti parts.

The Cowboys were investment cast slightly larger frame guns. I don't think any of the Italian maker were doing investment casting back then.

Steve,
I'm sure. Looks like I got to start digging don't it.

Joe