Blackhorn 209?? Anybody try it?

[Kansas Ed]

http://www.blackhorn209.com/home/

It looks interesting to me as it's non-corrosive, and cleans up with normal solvent. By the way...it's a subsidiary of Accurate Arms Powders.

Ed

[Don McDowell]

Well it may or may not be non corrosive. Turns out the residue it does leave , given the proper humidity in the atmosphere, can turn produce sulphuric acid.
At 30$ for ten ounces theres' an awful lot of smokeless powders a person can use with much better results and lower costs.
Never have understood this need for fake smoke, sometimes have to wonder if that's all that's fake about the folks using the fake smoked powders?

[Nath]

I have to Pyrodex because of stupid stupid stifling British laws, to use black would mean me jumping through more hoops and just now I am not prepared to dance with the commy feds any more than I have to. I ain't seen any other fake B/P other than Pyrodex and Trip7.

I would be very surprised if a fake BP was ever truely non hygroscopic and no nasty salts or acid develope. Besides whats the problem with cleaning any way? Not a dig to Kansas Ed intended at all. I just have never had a cleaning problem with M/L'ers.

I would use it if it worked all the same.

My urge for a flinter is growing so one day I'm gonna have to bite the bullet,,,,

Nath.

[Don McDowell]

Nath in some situations,like yours , I can sort of see the need for the fake stuff. But here in the US there's really no need for the stuff. BP is available thru several mailorder houses.

The other thing that bothers me about this blackthorn stuff, is the pressure data they themselves put out on it, good lord the stuff pushes the fire wall.....

[Nath]

Nath in some situations,like yours , I can sort of see the need for the fake stuff. But here in the US there's really no need for the stuff. BP is available thru several mailorder houses.

The other thing that bothers me about this blackthorn stuff, is the pressure data they themselves put out on it, good lord the stuff pushes the fire wall.....

I hear ya Don

N.

[Swampman]

It won't work in traditional muzzleloaders. It won't work in many inlines. It's non-corrosive.

[CowboyTutt]

Just some observations from the load data, particularly the 45-70. This propellant works at its best with a very hot primer and a load density of over 82% minumum and usually much higher like 90-100+ percent judging from the SD's posted. Some of the loads are not suitable for weak actions like the Trap Door Springfield which is not surprising given their claim for more power/velocity. They also recommend using Dacron filler and a wad over the powder at times. As Don mentioned, the pressures are somewhat high too. When I consider all these things, I might as well be using real BP as the extra steps to load Blackhorn (in some cartridges at least) is no different. The only difference would be in the cleaning necessary between shots.

For hunting with muzzle loaders I could see how a powder like this could be very useful but if I'm looking for all the advantages that they claim Blackhorn possesses I can and do get them with good ol' smokeless powder and for less cost at Don mentioned.

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

It won't work in traditional muzzleloaders. It won't work in many inlines. It's non-corrosive.

Swampman, can you explain why it won't work in traditional ML's and inlines and why its not corrosive? I'd seriously like to know.

-Tutt

[Kansas Ed]

I am interested in it because it is a non-corrosive ? , high volume, fast burning powder that I think I could make good use of in three of my rifles...40-82, 40-72, and 38-72. I like the IDEA, of not scrubbing my action with soapy water every time I shoot it, and I like the idea of near case full loading density. I can get near case full density with some of the slow burning powders , but they don't perform as well as the fast ones in these cartridges for some reason.

Ed

[olyinaz]

I don't doubt that any significant residue would become a possible source of rust, but with Ballistol cleanup/preserving that doesn't worry me.

What I like about B209 is the fact that it reportedly fouls much less than BP and that it cleans up using normal petrol, synthetic or animal oil based solvents and cleaners. I simply HATE putting water into/on a non-stainless steel weapon and especially any wood. I'm not going to defend that statement, it's just my opinion and I can have it if I want to because it's just that - opinion.

However(!), that said, the most helpful area that I can think of that I'd like to be able to use B209 - cap and ball revolvers - you can't. I don't hunt with inlines and I only reload a bit but I'd LOVE to have a much less fouling smoke wagon powder to use in my replica (and Ruger Old Army) cap & ball revolvers so that I could shoot them more before they get filthy and/or seize up. Just convenience - nothing "authentic" about it! Does that make me a "poseur" or some sort of bad person? Give me a friggen break...

What I've not heard anything about yet is accuracy. I don't know what kind of accuracy folks are getting from metallic cartridges loaded with this stuff. I had very poor results using American Pioneer substitute in .45 Colt so I wonder about this stuff.

I wish the powder did not require such hot ignition but that's the way it is.

Oly

[CowboyTutt]

KS Ed, I know how you feel, I was searching for a slow burning powder to fill the case of my 11mm but it was not possible to do it without very poor efficiency with a whole lot of unburned powder going down the barrel. Certainly does not help accuracy.

It turned out that a reletively fast burning single base powder was the answer, in this case Blue Dot. It still needs enough pressure for proper ignition, however, and if the charge drops too low very weird things start to happen.

Have you thought about using 5744? It was designed as a smokeless BP substitute with the help of Bill Falin who was Chief Ballistician at Accurate Arms. Its easy to ignite and Mic and my friends seem to use it quite a lot with antique cartridges with very good results.

This BH209 stuff seems a bit spooky because of the very hot ignition it needs and the fact it has more energy than BP for similar volume. The former because if the case is too empty I see the potential for a detonation, the latter because a full case might be too much velocity and beat up the gun. If you can match the factory ballistics with a case at 90% full or more, I think you would be OK with the stuff. Thats just based upon the load data and what conditions the powder seems to work best in.

Just trying to help.

-Tutt

[kimwcook]

First off, I haven't used any so I have nothing to give, but as Don said BP is still relatively easy to get in the U.S.A. so I'll stick to it. It also cleans up fairly well with just ole water.

[Ysabel Kid]

Don Tomas had some good results with this stuff in a .45 Colt. Only problem he found was it was EXPENSIVE!

[hammerman]

It works in traditional muzzle loaders if you use the mag-spark 209 conversion nipple. My 54 cal t/c hawken likes it.

[Swampman]

It's not corrosive because it's non-corrosive just like smokeless powder. The clean-up is done with Hoppe's #9 just like smokeless powder. It's expensive but the fact that I don't have to clean the same day I shoot is a plus.

It's very hard to light and I wouldn't try it in a traditional muzzleloader. You'd be a lot better off with Trail Boss in a cartridge gun. BH-209 is too expensive.

[AJMD429]

My son has a normal Thompson Center muzzleloader, and has used Blackhorn 209, and it seemed very clean, and you could shoot several rounds without even a patch between shots, without accuracy problems. It was very pricey, and had some disclaimers about what primers NOT to use in the labeling, but he seems happy with it.

Right now my only 'charcoal burner' rifle is a Savage ML10, which actually burns 5744 or SR-4759 or even IMR 4227, all of which are reasonably inexpensive, and clean up super well when I do the annual cleaning of my muzzleloader. (Actually probably twice a year, really - just like most of my other stainless midern guns... )

I'm not sure I'll ever bother with black powder again for muzzleloader rifle, but I still use it for the 'diswasher-safe' stainless cap & ball replica I have.